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Rise of the Tomb Raider coming to PC Steam on January 28
- Thread starter killercow
- Start date
Terbinator
Member
What about legitimate owners wanting to access their product if the DRM check fails due to a hosting/provider issue?
Garrett Hawke
Member
In an ideal world pubs would use Denuvo for the first 6 months - a year then strip it out via a patch. They don't really make much money outside that window anyway and it would future proof games.
We all know that'll never happen tho
We all know that'll never happen tho
Is annoying pirates really worth more to you than preservation and modding?
Strange priorities.
If there was a way to do both it would be nice, and of course preservation would also be nice.
How about a situation where after 1 year of release the game removes DRM and becomes DRM free.
Ofcourse with the nature of many games requiring some form of online connection you're never going to get 100% of a game, but that's today's generation.
Is there any Denuvo game that has official modding support?
texhnolyze
Banned
Denuvo might lead pirates to buy the games instead. Sometimes people just don't have the patience.
Moreover, it's still a mystery how much of a restriction Denuvo gives to modding though. MGS V got a 21:9 fix through hacking the exe just fine.
That would indeed be ideal, but that would first require publishers to see games as more than a throw-away consumer product.
In other words, it will never happen.
I never though i'd see the day that Resident Evil 2 is getting remade, or that we're seeing a massive surge in Japanese games appearing on steam.
Or that we're getting another star trek series.
While highly unlikely, I'll remain in hope.
blackdevil
Member
you are kidding right? i would imaging they are the first to suffer from piracy! People already are reluctant to buy indies so just downloading them is the way to go. AAA Titles are different because you want to have them in your steam library and play with friends so people buy them.
people buy indies when they are on sale and in a bundle for 0,99 cents
lukeskymac
Member
I'll never understand why people use Avatar as a yardstick for CG quality.
Dictator93
Member
Yeah, when this came out my mind was boggled. I highly recoemmend downloading Jiminez's demos on his website!It looks really good for a game, but I just spent 3 hours going through a 300 slide presentation on skin/eye rendering so I can't help pick up on all the issues
I always thought District 9 was more impressive
Yet Undertale sold almost 1 million, most of them not on a sale and the sale it had was 20% off.
lukeskymac
Member
It was. Hell, Star Trek 2009's space shots looked better.
Well, using Undertale in a comparison like this is kinda unfair.
SmartWaffles
Member
Denuvo works offline I believe.
for limited time iirc - after couple days (not sure about exact time but its a bit longer than i case of GTA5 which has similar offline bullshit with its protection) it asks for reactivation and if there is an update for a game available it calls home and forces you to go online and update
CambriaRising
Member
Any word on a preload yet?
Adry9
Member
Waiting for that too
Piracy not being a actual real factor against sales is my point. Every indie ever could be uncrackable and sales wouldn't really rise up in a significant way, and people would still buy them "on a sale or on a bundle for 99 cents".
SmartWaffles
Member
Ah that's a bummer.
UnrealEck
Member
Same way I'm able to watch games. With my eyes. Or are you strawmanning my comment into the implication that I'm saying I can't play anything under 60 FPS at all? Especially after I clarified the contrary for someone else above your post.
If you really want my opinion on movies, I think they would be better in higher framerates too.
You're asking me to stop giving my opinion and experience on frame rate then you tell us all your opinion and experience.
I'd like to understand what it is that makes what I wrote 'elitist'. I guess maybe a definition of 'elitist' might help too.
I'll just reiterate what I said earlier by pointing out that under 60 FPS isn't unplayable for me. It's definitely not preferable and I do notice and immediately dislike 30 FPS after playing at 60 and the same goes for 60 after playing above 100.
Aye, perhaps they are.
Dictator93
Member
Yep!
Garrett Hawke
Member
tbh I am kinda sad that the Hobbit didn't do so well at HFR, it would've been cool to see more films like that. Like when it looked bad it looked bad but I blame the CG for that seeing as the Hobbit films look kinda bad anyway.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Looks beautiful, and with it being a Nixxes port shit is going to run smooth.
cartographer
Member
Now ask yourself if that's Denuvo or the DRM system already in place on the product.
Hint: there's a reason it's referred to as anti-tamper. It's not just pointless semantics.
The way I always understood Denuvo was that it isn't DRM into itself, but it is more like a protective layer you can put over your core DRM to prevent that one from being cracked. So I thought that the DRM working/not working off-line was more a case of which core DRM they decide to use.
Absolutely not, no. Even more so than for "must-have" AA games, I believe that people who pirate indie games would in no way generally buy them if they couldn't get them for free.
Anyway, the proof is in the pudding -- Denuvo is highly effective in protecting DRM from crackers, and so far none of the games which use it have shown an appreciable uptick in sales over what you'd expect with less effective DRM.
I agree that there's a difference, but in terms of preservation that difference is immaterial. Whether you can no longer play a game because of Denuvo, or because of DRM which cannot be removed because of Denuvo doesn't change the result.
Shouldn't this technically lead to publishers no longer using it? I understand it is quite expensive compared to other DRM products, and if it doesn't show any noticeable increase in sales, it would make little business sense to keep using it.
If they use a sane performance metric for their DRM, then probably. Eventually.
But I wouldn't be surprised if their metric was "prevented pirate downloads" rather than "additional sales", and in that metric it's certainly very effective.
Sounds to me like you're taking either your own or friends anecdotal viewpoint and applying it worldwide.
not really , the behavior the same in case of both steam and Origin (tested on DA:I and Mad Max) and other steam and origin works even after 2 months in offline mode , denuvo ones dont
It is just semantics , hell it even installs some unknown stuff which stays on PC after uninstal according to Far Cry Primal's eula ... its ex-securom devs after all.
Also judging by the recent statements denuvo issued to company
, they got a bit greedy and drunk on their success which will be their downfall.
Well all other hand the potentially "uncrackable" protection with market monopoly is bad for "copy protection" business anyway and is not really sustainable in a long-term
This is absolutely not the case. I had issues playing Mad Max offline and I'm pretty sure Mad Max only uses Steamworks in addition to Denuvo. And I never had a single issue playing steamworks games offline. Denuvo is definitely DRM and no ammount of semantics will change it.
cartographer
Member
Yes, for preservation. But in regard to the response I was replying to it was relevant. It's the behavior of the DRM in this case and not the behavior of Denuvo.
It's not just semantics. Online checks are far more likely to be the result of the DRM already on the product (Origin, Steam DRM etc) and not Denuvo. Unless you happened to stumble on something regarding Denuvo that people haven't yet.
It's more than likely not Denuvo.
Then why it points you to codefusion tech support page, which when you run through "Whois" shows Reinhard Blaukovitsch as an owner (aka CEO of Denuvo was ceo of Sony DADC - creators of Securom)
Sigh, sometimes I wonder if the higher ups of game publishers even understand basic economics.
cartographer
Member
It points you to tech support page under what conditions? Launching the game? Logging in?
In my experience with the Denuvo games I've played, I've never been pointed to a tech support page. Maybe it's something new with recent Denuvo games, but with FIFA 15 / 16 / DA:I etc I've never encountered that even after long periods of offline play.
If you have any extra information on this (especially if you've happened to monitor you network activity) then it would be great if you'd share. I'm open to being wrong.
edit: Do you mean after patching? I have heard about that.
Self_Destructive
Member
If it means more games coming to PC just by assuaging publishers fear of the platform than I'm all for it... even if it means problems for modders.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Prior to MGSV being cracked (it took several months), I browed a couple of piracy-focused subreddits because I was curious of the impact the situation was having.
There were a LOT of posts to the effect of "I couldn't wait for a crack any longer, so I finally caved and just bought the game." Every one of those posts is a gained sale because of Denuvo. I suppose it's possible that some of these posters were lying, but why would they lie about this?
Anecdotal evidence perhaps, but it's the most direct evidence I can think of, since sales data can be influenced by a ton of different factors.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Since Denuvo IS anti-tamper, what I'd really like to see is companies using Denuvo to enforce something other than an online-activation check. A disc-check, for instance, since PC retail games DO still exist. Professionally-pressed DVD's last a pretty freaking long time, so that would assuage a lot of my concerns around game preservation.
cartographer
Member
I think this is small scale anecdotal stuff, to be honest. For the most part I think the piracy = less sales thing is small enough to be inconsequential.
In general most of the people that are frequenting communities like that aren't going to be buying these titles anyway, in my opinion.
Senhua
Member
If the trend continues and 50%+ developer using denuvo in addition with Steam etc,
I will foresee 2 scenario : ALL pirates group will group together to crack Denuvo. Not only 3DM and CPY like now but scene group like Reloaded, CODEX, etc will also.
OR
Like 3DM mentioned before : no more cracked game at all.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I don't want to sound rude, but I think that actual posts made by people who usually pirate gamesanecdotal evidence though it may becounts for a bit more than just your opinion.
what i meant is that if denuvo is in 50% of games , its pretty much monopoly and will destroy other protection companies .... and without the radical rise in sales the publishers might understand that the sale cut which goes to denuvo (probably quite high) is not worth it.
Other thing which might happen is the fact that in these companies works some ex-crackers - so when the other companies go down , they might try to undermine the competition. (kinda like some burglars vs home alarm companies - i am pretty sure there was some cases of undermining competition by breaking ther solution)
the 3DM statement is nonsence anyway , indies cant afford such protection and there will always be those devs to say that the "noCrack will buy" group is similarly slow as the "no buy because of DRM" group and all in all insignificant
I imagine the number of people that actually is is very insignificant. The "piracy" subreddit has only 47k subscribers, of which I imagine a very small portion are actually active. The highest rated post of all time on that sub is 1k upvotes, which is what a typical post gets on most moderately active subreddits. It seems like a poor representation.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Of course, Denuvo might respond to declining sales by simply lowering their sales cut.
cartographer
Member
Those posts count for exactly what they are: each is a singular account taken at face value.
I don't see how my belief that any such cases are small enough to be inconsequential goes against those posts. If you see 100 claims that they got so frustrated that the finally purchased the game, then maybe all 100 actually did that. Or maybe a fraction of the people did.
Either way, I don't believe it's a significant number, at least as far as modern PC gaming goes.
Senhua
Member
I see...
What I mean is: IF all pirates group working together cracked denuvo the success rate will increase.
Now approx 3 month from release with 2 group only. With all Scenes group, It will have an opportunity to make a Denuvo emulator (I hear some whisper at UG forum) which can instantly crack the target.
Remember SecuRom when all AAA developer use it? It cracked relatively fast.