Err.. no.
Anyone who played the PS3/PC version of TR and wants the PS3/PS4/PC version of RoTR is affected by this.
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Rise of the Tomb Raider Crystal Dynamics FAQ - Confirms timed exclusive for XB1/360
- Thread starter GavinUK86
- Start date
Err.. no.
Anyone who played the PS3/PC version of TR and wants the PS3/PS4/PC version of RoTR is affected by this.
Nightengale
Member
How would you suggest MS/SE quantify it then? Everything about Tomb Raider right now, from a community standpoint, has no monetary value attached to them because the game was so far off that any pre-order cancellations must have been minimal to none.
Official tumblr comments? Over 9000 comments on the original post, and over 200 on the new FAQ. A glance through of the comments are enough to tell that 95% of them are all negative comments. And the average of that tumblr? Less than 10 per post even on official news.
Crystal's Facebook feed is being spammed with nothing but terrible things being said about them and this deal. They've like quadrapled the amount of FB post comments they've gotten post-Gamescom, and none of it is positive.
TR forums have been cited before by other posters ( not really aware about TR-specific big forums to make a judgment call ), but citations of the response from those forums by other GAFers also put it as mostly negative.
GAF? Mostly negative. Twitter? Mostly negative, but I didn't keep up enough to see how wide-spread it was and over how long.
And the additional point to this is that the games media is painting this as a 'bad thing' instead of a 'win' for Microsoft. A lot of pieces/opinions from 'games journalist' are basically saying that as a timed exclusive, it's not 'that big of a deal', and instead we're seeing articles that frames the whole thing as 'not exactly a flattering thing' for Microsoft.
Maybe you're right and final sales of the product will be unaffected by all of the above. But right now, MS, SE and Crystal are not getting positive feedback at all. Even if it's a vocal minority, it's a very, very, very, very loud one.
IDTS : This is something Sony could retaliate at by refusing certification on Game
Nightengale
Member
You may be right, but that doesn't change the fact that as of right now, it's definitely loud enough that Crystal/MS feels bothered enough to address the 'complainers', so to speak.
nelsonroyale
Member
Yes. It was all over the gaming media at least. I think it was in some newspaper's gaming sections as well. It has been pretty big. Look at the responses CD got on their own forum...There was a pretty significant backlash.
Nightengale
Member
I think Bruiser's main point is that there's no way this 'backlash' will maintain its momentum over the next year to have any impact whatsoever on the perception and intent-of-purchase of the game come E3/Gamescom/Holiday 2015, when the game will actually be 'unveiled' and showcased in its proper form.
I think he has a point, but it doesn't change the fact that any reasonable company would want to contain as much of the negativity as much as possible and control the narrative, because no one knows what the fuck could possibly go wrong in social media left unattended.
It's foolish to assume something will just 'tide over', especially when MS has been burned twice by something they assumed they could tide over ( RROD and DRM ). Sure, both cases were far, far, far more significant than a timed-exclusivity deal, but if I were MS, I want to make the deal a huge success instead of have it limping out of the door a non-factor, and the way to do that is to quell as much of the negativity as possible.
If it's just a bunch of people on forums why are they publishing a FAQ about this?
They could just ignore these "few" people and pretend it's a full exclusive like MS would love them to do, since they are so few they won't matter at all.
If he's talking about the future it's irrelevant to the post he replied to. He was clearly downplaying the backlash now. Right now it's big and right now it's big enough both MS and SE buckled (and let's be clear it was a buckle) to outside pressure and confirmed more than they'd like about the deal.
Sure next year it might have died down. RROD died down. PSN outage died down. Doesn't mean they weren't big at the time. Given the backlash may well indicate more than a one off response to this game but a general market swing to be negative towards certain PR approaches with exclusive content contributes to this.
If it really was just some forum whining Spencer wouldn't grudgingly confirm the deal "has a duration" and SE wouldn't be following suit and trying to calm their forums down they'd just ride out the whining for a week until things calmed down. I get it will calm down but that's just trying to deflect the point: it was a sizeable enough backlash to force a reply and it's pretty obvious MS and SE worried if they didn't calm it down it would continue to be a backlash for a lot longer than they expected.
SovereignSnake
Banned
I think this game is coming out too soon after the last one so I am ready and very skeptical. But it's good to hear it is coming to other platforms.
It's not out until next December. You think nearly three years between games isn't enough?
BruiserBear
Banned
I didn't say it was 25 people. Let's just get crazy and say there are 20,000 really pissed off people right now (and there aren't), but let's just say it's 20,000. That is a paltry number when you're talking about a game that sells millions of copies.
Releasing an FAQ is tantamount to composing a Facebook post. Big deal. It's just a simple measure throw some water on the complainers, and get all the specifics out there so the questions stop.
I think you're reading these statements, etc as much bigger than they are. Almost every timed exclusive deal is acknowledged as timed soon after it's announced. E3 2013 it's announced "Titanfall is exclusive to Xbox". Days later Respawn people were saying things like "for now it's coming to Xbox and PC. We just don't have the resources to hit Playstation platforms".
It is not new to announce a game as "exclusive" and soon after acknowledge it's not permanent, and that's because if you're not saying it's permanent everyone knows it's not.
3rdamention
Member
You know, when they say this game is coming "EXCLUSIVELY HOLIDAY 2015 TO XBOX" that reads to me like it could be out as soon as February on PlayStation, or when the "holiday" season is over.
I predict this game launches in the beginning of November on Xbox, that gets you through the "holidays" and then the game launches by the end of March on PlayStation.
Probably 3 -4 months of exclusivity, in my opinion. ALSO, the FAQ comes off almost like "Hey, dont be upset, look its officially a timed exclusive, we will bring the game to other platforms, just after the Holiday 2015." I agree with others, the FAQ was a direct response to some of the negativity that some fans have shown on social media and gaming forums, its a direct response.
Does anyone have the total sales numbers of TR: The Definitive Edition on PS4 vs XB1? Didn't the PS4 outsell the XB1 version by a pretty large margin? That just makes me think the payoff for a window of exclusivity must have been pretty large.
I predict this game launches in the beginning of November on Xbox, that gets you through the "holidays" and then the game launches by the end of March on PlayStation.
Probably 3 -4 months of exclusivity, in my opinion. ALSO, the FAQ comes off almost like "Hey, dont be upset, look its officially a timed exclusive, we will bring the game to other platforms, just after the Holiday 2015." I agree with others, the FAQ was a direct response to some of the negativity that some fans have shown on social media and gaming forums, its a direct response.
Does anyone have the total sales numbers of TR: The Definitive Edition on PS4 vs XB1? Didn't the PS4 outsell the XB1 version by a pretty large margin? That just makes me think the payoff for a window of exclusivity must have been pretty large.
Temple of Osiris is a sequel to Guardian of Light, the isometric action-adventure Lara Croft game, not Tomb Raider 2013. You're far from the first to make this mistake, though, so don't feel bad.
Edit: Unless you're referring to the Definitive Edition... but it's the Definitive Edition for a reason (i.e. it's not the original release, so it shouldn't be used as the starting point).
Goldenmoney
Member
Oh I didn't know it would be coming to previous gen. Might get it on 360 now as long as performance isn't terrible.
Lololololololol!!! I just spit coffee on my iPad reading this shit. Ohmagerd.
I need a minute to compose myself.
EmptySpace
Banned
so this is what xbox was alluding to when they said they're spending a billion dollars in games during the xbone reveal?
Too soon? The new game will come out in late 2015, about two and a half years after the 2013 game. That's not too soon, that's right on time.
If it weren't for Uncharted 4 getting delayed by a year, none of this would have happened. Uncharted 4 would have been releaed in late 2014, Tormb Raider would have had its day in the sun in 2015 and there would have been no need for SE to cut a deal with MS to stay out of Uncharted 4's way.
With PS4 : X1 now being probably 2:1 worldwide its not hard to see that a PS4 will always outsell the X1 version
If you want to look at player affection you basically have to measure only 50% of PS4 sales to get a comparable number if Tomb Raider is bought more by xbox or more by PS players
Nightengale
Member
Let's entertain your scenario for a little bit.
In the first place, social media captures only a fragment of the wider community in the first place. There's no Halo media/video where there's over 5 million comments, for example, even though the game have sold to that amount of people. The no.of people who actually care enough to leave a message to the devs are a minority to begin with.
Those 20,000 people represent a community of people that is core enough to actually visit dedicated TR forums, Crystal's tumblr, etc. They are folks invested enough into the franchise in the first place that it was actually worth keeping track of who makes the games and updates in less visible community forums.
You don't want your brand advocates turning into brand detractors, because that would lead to negative word-of-mouth that isn't even done out of the game quality, but strictly out of spite. Sure, those are only 20,000 angry folk, but those 20,000 people are the ones most qualified and capable to influence other gamers to 'not buy Tomb Raider' because blahblahblah irrational reasons.
That's just your assumption.
Historically, ND works on a two-year dev cycle, and their last game was released in 2013. So the natural assumption was that their next game will be a 2015 release.
EmptySpace
Banned
1) internet is more prevalent now.
2) those are new ips, not established franchises.
3) gta4 was dlc, not full game
lol, no, just no. They had to redo their messaging and implement damage control. Shit like that is hard to do one it is only one company, here they have to organize it between three (one being Japanese). If it meant nothing, it would not have been done.
The time and effort involved says to me that the pushback was strong enough to have a real effect, if only wrt marketing this thing. And you can bet going forward purchased moneyhats will have their messaging in part guided by this shitstorm.
GTA4 was a shitstorm, I remember the threads at the time.
I really doubt that the reason S-E made the deal was to get out of Uncharted 4's way. I believe it's more likely that there was no way they could ship the title multiplatform by Holiday 2015 and took the deal so they could at least release two SKUs in that time frame. After all, we're less than a year and a half out from the title's release and we haven't got anything in-engine from the game. Only CGI trailers.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Yeah right, that language was extremely particular, don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining.
Why the hell is this releasing on 360, 2 years after next gen launch ??????
I thought they accepted the microsoft cash so that they can build something incredible/massiv/bombastic/next gen.
How the hell can they do this when they are held back by last gen ????
sound like they talked massive bullshit
I thought they accepted the microsoft cash so that they can build something incredible/massiv/bombastic/next gen.
How the hell can they do this when they are held back by last gen ????
sound like they talked massive bullshit
Because the XOne install base is too small obviously.
Nightengale
Member
We haven't seen anything in-engine from :
- Forza 6
- Halo 5
- CoD Treyach 2015
- AssCreed 2015
And yet, reliably, those games aren't in doubt of shipping next year, whereas games that have shown in-engine footage like Rime ( back in 2013 ) ended up being a 2015 title. And I highly doubt Wild will be a 2015 title, since Ancel said it's still early in development despite a lengthy in-engine trailer.
Different companies have different ways to approaching their methodology of announcing and showcasing their games. CGi trailers are effective in showing something without showing anything, thus allowing devs to actually work on the game without needing to prepare something for game conferences.
We've heard that ND devs had to crunch just to prepare UC4's in-engine trailer. While we as gamers appreciate in-engine trailers more because they're actually a representation of a final product, devs are forced to specially create them, instead of having the luxury of outsourcing them to CGi houses.
We'll see Halo 5 as a multiplayer beta later this year. And Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed are yearly releases so that's not exactly the same. And you could technically make the same argument for Forza since Forza Horizon 2 is coming out this year. The reason I brought up CGI trailers was because of how early Square Enix unveiled screenshots for Tomb Raider 2013 before its release. And also, don't forget that Tomb Raider 2013 was supposed to be Tomb Raider 2012.
We saw Halo 5 multiplayer maps footage at gamescom didnt we?
I think that was the Halo Remake thing.
SketchTheArtist
Member
I'm very curious for the sales numbers for all the cross-gen titles releasing at the end of the year. Especially with the Old-Gen and Current-Gen Assassin's Creed games to see if they can actually squeeze out decent number of sales on old hardware.
SovereignSnake
Banned
I am referring to Tomb Raider 2013.Temple of Osiris is a sequel to Guardian of Light, the isometric action-adventure Lara Croft game, not Tomb Raider 2013. You're far from the first to make this mistake, though, so don't feel bad.
Edit: Unless you're referring to the Definitive Edition... but it's the Definitive Edition for a reason (i.e. it's not the original release, so it shouldn't be used as the starting point).
It is too soon for me. I like squeals to have a 3-4 year development cycle. I am not saying that a two and half year cycle is not good but I don't think it will be enough time for them to think of new ideas. I like it when developers make a game in between them making a squeal and then come back to the squeal with a clear and fresh head.
No I don't think it's enough time. it's have been long enough from the last game so I am interested in the new one, but not long enough for me to be excited. Also I did not think that Tomb Raider 2013 was super good or was innovative in any way. I am skeptical.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Nightengale
Member
I understand your point perfectly, but I'm saying that judging it based on the decision to showcase a CGi trailer alone isn't the most accurate barometer because different devs have different ways to approach their game showcase.
Your point on how SE initially inveiled TR was a better point imo, because SE has a history of 'pseudo-announcing' their games way too early, (they've technically already announced Deus Ex, Sleeping Dogs 2 and Hitman, but who knows how far along those games actually are ), and SE/CD is less than reliable when it comes to hitting their projected launch window.
Like how no one actually believes Remedy will have their games shipped 'early' because that's how they roll.
Speaking pragmatically, March 2013 -> "Holiday" 2015 is plenty of time for a sequel. There were 2.5 years between Guardian of Light and Tomb Raider 2013, for instance, and they're hardly similar.
Nightengale
Member
Not every developer is Hideo Kojima where each major MGS release from him has massive leaps in gameplay/level design with a ton of new ideas, thus taking long years for each game because he doesn't just 'recycle' his game.
The Xbone, PS4 and PC more or less share the same architecture. Ports for the latter two should be almost trivial. Microsoft offered money in exchange for temporarily withholding the game on its competitors' platforms and SE/CD took the deal. It's probably as simple as that.
Nightengale
Member
Guardian of Light was a side-project from Crystal. TR2013's development started after Underworld... back in 2008.
I know SE gets a lot of shit over its ridiculous expectations for TR2013, but that game did have a FIVE year dev cycle, and we saw what happened with Irrational who had a similar development time with Bioshock Infinite.
Fair point, but -- and not to flip-flop on what I just said -- I'll say that a longer development cycle doesn't necessarily translate to a better game: take the Elder Scrolls series, for example, which many feel has been taking backwards steps since Morrowind. Basically, it's too soon to be saying "This feels too soon" even if you're one for longer development cycles since we know virtually nothing about the actual game itself.
Edit: If SovereignSnake is hoping for Rise to be a notable departure from TR'13, then, well:
TR'13s 7m sales, although it took a re-release and several Steam sales to get there, makes it the third best-selling game in the entire series. Even if Squeenix gave CD five years to develop Rise, it wouldn't stray far from the formula of its predecessor.
Nightengale
Member
Meh, can't fault him, different folks have different expectations of game sequels.
Like, I have no issue with ND releasing sequels every 2 years, but I don't know if I can swallow a Bethesda game every 2 years.
lol, I highly doubt there'll be any major difference. The Uncharted formula has proven itself to be successful for Tomb Raider, why would they stray from that?
Of course. I was just making the point that a longer development cycle doesn't necessarily guarantee improvement.
Precisely. Rise would be much the same game even if it had twice as much time in the oven.