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[SomTervo]

The problem is it's not the Fallout the existing fans fell in love with. You know, the series with role-playing, choice, dialogue trees, multiple questlines, factions, karma and massive replayability beyond killing everything, scrounging or building pointless settlements with 90% generic NPCs.

Playing devil's advocate here: the bolded is not Bethesda's problem. It's the fans'.

 

[Metroidvania]

Between the dialogue, the 'Minecraft' approach to any actual settlement building, combined with the emphasis on radiant quests to 'fill in the gaps' of written, pre-planned quests was what led to an overall negative impression in my eyes.

Wouldn't say its the worst thing I ever played, but New Vegas, to say nothing of FO1/2, rises above it easily.

 

[Grief.exe]

I've always said, modern Bethesda design is going to struggle when subjected to actual critique.

If you like the formula, that's fine, but these games are objectively mediocre at best in every conceivable metric.

 

[Menthuss]

The nuanced and complex ethical issues surrounding artificial life have been reduced to utterly simplistic faction philosophies that can be understood even by Xbox One owners

Pffft, hahaha.

On a more serious note, I agree with pretty much everything in the article. It blows my mind that Fallout 4 actually managed to win the Bafta Best Game award.

 

[TimeEffect]

An IP like Witcher 3 will do a whole lot better when Witcher 4 is announced.

Most people jumped in with Oblivion, then Fallout 3. Skyrim and Fallout 4 built upon that fanbase.

I am excited for CDPR to become megastars with more consistent releases for console/PC

 

[potatohead]

Really don't mind FO4 as a game.

It's light-hearted in the type of world it has created, sure that is strange but it's just the style of the game.

It's bad if you want exactly that specifically from FO, but on its own it's still a pretty fun game where you get to explore and do quests and have fun.

I really don't mind it as it is.

I don't find it as bad relatively as the trainwreck that FF went down to with FF XIII but just IMO.

 

[Dyno]

In Fallout I remember fighting for my life in the middle of the night, drinking dirty water just to survive. It was an experience.

Fallout 4 is instead the story of a general contractor with a to-do list. Hey if you like to build stuff for days and not look for your stupid baby then this game has something. I saw some nice bases and dioramas for power armour.

As a survival experience however it was garbage and the atmosphere was terrible.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

I enjoyed fallout 4 once I realized it was going to be a poor mans borderlands/minecraft/mass effect with a Fallout license attached to it, and not a more traditional rpg. Having come after New Vegas made it more disappointing than it would have been had it just been 3, because New Vegas showed that you could make a good Fallout RPG using Bethesda's style/engine.

I'll go back to 4 once the creation kit is out and the game rebalanced / fwe'd up. I purposely avoided doing a lot of side exploring, and mostly just powered through the main quest so I could beat it, then come back later with mods to enjoy the side stuff.

 

[TokiDoki]

They are not wrong tbh . Fallout 4 is really a dull game , let alone being a proper RPG . Like every other Bethesda games , you can never feel the tension in the game world , I always lost interest in it quickly .

 

[TheSpoiler]

Playing devil's advocate here: the bolded is not Bethesda's problem. It's the fans'.

That's not how you play devil's advocate. People misused it all the time by pointing out the other side and leaving it at that. You are suppose to say "playing devil's advocate", point out the other side of the argument, and THEN use it buff up your side.

Here, I'll do it for you.

The bolded is not Bethesda's problem, its the fan's problem for expecting the game to follow suit from previous entries. However, considering it's a sequel from a previous game, you'd think fans would have a right to expect improvements and advancements that don't swerve away from the evolutionary standpoint of game design. In essence, most companies add, not remove, when a sequel arrives on the scene, so it's not too farfetch to want things like player builds that focus on charisma to matter.

Furthermore, the problems that the fans have are definitely ones that can be applied to newcomers, as even new players have voiced concerns over the terrible choices in game design that F4 displays. The boring quests aren't just annoying for fans wanting deeper quests than F3 and NV - they are annoying for those who's first entry into the series is a slogging mess of talk to person - venture to dungeon - kill/loot - get reward. Even a newcomer can get bored of that, and doesn't need a frame of reference to see how awful that is.

On the same token, it doesn't matter where you've started playing Fallout games to see how broken the speech aspect is. Any person doing a speech build is going to have trouble regardless of when they started playing Fallout games because it's inherently busted.

 

[pantsmith]

Playing devil's advocate here: the bolded is not Bethesda's problem. It's the fans'.

If you compare it to the two previous entries under Bethesda's watch, the capacity for the player to roleplay has been downgraded to the point that you can't even call it roleplaying anymore. It's like the exploring equivalent of roleplaying, where your interesting choice boil down to what junk you'd like to pick up and which direction you'd like to head.

Its not really a problem because they're not competing with anyone. Theres nothing else like Fallout 4 on modern consoles. The sales are astronomical. I just hope they lose some sleep knowing its actually a mediocre product and they could have done better.

 

[thechristoph]

Here's my review:

It's a fun video game which I enjoyed playing. Exploration was exciting and it always feels good to pick up loot. I look forward to playing it some more when all the DLC is out.

 

[potatohead]

In Fallout I remember fighting for my life in the middle of the night, drinking dirty water just to survive. It was an experience.

Fallout 4 is instead the story of a general contractor with a to-do list. Hey if you like to build stuff for days and not look for your stupid baby then this game has something. I saw some nice bases and dioramas for power armour.

As a survival experience however it was garbage and the atmosphere was terrible.

STALKER is really good as a survival experience. Very different from Fallout and feels much more dangerous.

Can play with the Complete mod too.

 

[wildbite]

Bethesda has always been my favorite developer and although I enjoyed my time with Fallout 4, it felt like more of the same. I want to be wowed with their games.

The Witcher 3 felt like reading a good book. It was a journey that I followed and felt an emotional attachment to.

With rumors of Mass Effect having seamless space travel and the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077, and even how breathtaking FFXV looks to be, I expect those games to blow me away. I wish Bethesda could deliver like that but I feel they got too comfortable.

I often think back to the original Oblivion demos where the NPCs would think for themselves and have goals or motives. That was left out of the game and now here we are a few games later, and the AI hasn't changed much. They go into sandbox mode but there is no emotion driving their actions.

 

[Glass Shark]

Ask the average mainstream gamer what the best designed, most atmospheric, most memorable, best written, and overall biggest and greatest RPG of 2015 was, and they are almost certain to reply: “The Witcher 3”.

I'm not a big fan of Fallout 4, but for some reason this line immediately turns me off from wanting to read any more of this review. It's such a subjective statement made in a grossly matter-of-fact way.

 

[Glass Shark]

Is he really wrong? For GOTY discussions, TW3 was discussed constantly on GAF, while Fallout 4, which had only come out a couple months earlier, was already fading to the background.

I've never even played The Witcher 3 and I have no desire to. The problem I have with that statement is that it's bad writing and a bad way to make a point. "Everyone thinks x..." is inherently wrong.

 

[Sinatar]

And that's not even the worst thing about Fallout 4's companion design. No, the worst thing is that companion affinity depends entirely on those gamey, grindable activities like lockpicking and hacking and on your interactions with other NPCs. It is not in any way affected by your conversations with the companions themselves. You can tell a guy that he's a druggie loser, you can condemn another as a cold blooded murderer, and you can tell another that his core beliefs are totally idiotic. Their affinity meters will not budge an inch. You can go to Piper, a reporter who's fought against the synth conspiracy her whole life, and discuss the fact that you've joined the conspiracy and defeated all their enemies except for her, and it won't have the slightest effect on your relationship. However, pick ten locks in front of her, and watch her blush and choke back tears as she calls you a gift from heaven and thanks you for showing her that she is, after all, worthy of the love of a person such as you.

Jesus Christ Bethesda...

EDIT:

Let's look at a few examples of story quests. First, there's “MacCready for Action”, which is the story of your companion Robert Joseph MacCready. MacCready's a returning fan favourite from Fallout 3, where he served as the adorably obnoxious child mayor of Little Lamplight. He's a fully grown man now, and after a few hours of passionate lockpicking he will reveal his tragic backstory to you: MacCready's wife was ripped apart by feral ghouls a few years back, leaving him to care alone for a terminally ill son who is suffering from an unknown disease. MacCready has set out into the Commonwealth in search of a cure, and he needs somebody to help him follow the quest markers. Half an hour of pew-pew later, you hold an experimental cure for an unknown disease in your hands, and now you're off to try and see if it will cure the kid! No, actually you aren't, because the kid is lying comatose in a shack somewhere near Washington D.C., and that's outside the game world. Well, then MacCready has to go and try to cure his kid himself! Goodbye Robert, hope you and your spawn find happiness! Ah, but no – MacCready is bound to you, his lord and mistress, and will not leave your side. Instead, he gives the cure to “a caravan master he trusts”, sends it off to his son, and then the quest is over and the story's done.

And here's my analysis: Jesus Christ, are you fucking kidding me? Why the hell wouldn't the guy go home to his dying son? Is he mentally ill? Why can't I order MacCready to go? His kid is dying! The cure may not work! It may kill him! He may already be dead! Why does the game build up such a strong thematic connection between the PC and MacCready (dead spouse, son in distress, now they're scouring the Commonwealth for a solution), only to fuck it all up by saying “eh, that dude's kid will be fine, he's just suffering from an unknown fatal disease with an experimental cure and may very well be dead already. Your kid, on the other hand – quick, let's have another emotional dialogue! Start quivering, girl!” This type of writing is not merely self-defeating, but it's actually harmful to the game; until I played through this quest, I had no idea what utter hacks Bethesda's quest writers were. After this uncomfortable episode, I never used MacCready in my party again; when the main quest was over, he was still hard at work tilling my fields.

No seriously... Jesus Christ Bethesda.

 

[True Fire]

I've been pretty outspoken against Fallout 4, however, Survival Mode and Automatron turn it into a substantially different game.

 

[mattiewheels]

Beth obviously don't get Fallout at all. They excel at creating a great open world every time, but they seem to not understand why 1, 2 and NV were successes, or they're just not interested in making that game at all, because that doesn't cast a "wide enough net" or something.

And boy do they have mediocre writers, for a company with such resources.

 

[DouglasteR]

Yes.

It was a good polished uber mess cesspool with Fallout label.

And the same fate is reserved to Doom.

Doom is Doomed.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Fallout 4 is not really an RPG, it's just a shooter with some superficial RPG-looking features that are only skin deep.

Agree with this summary. I'm still having fun after 100 hours of playing it though, so oh well.

 

[mattiewheels]

I'd say the two places the game is worth the price of admission are the brilliant open world and the new crafting system. Seems to be what you can basically expect all future Beth games to be worth it for.

 

[Rad-]

I honestly thought F4 was Bethesda's best game since Morrowind. Sure it sucks in the RPG department but you should know Bethesda by now. Their games have been more like action adventure ever since 2006. And with F4 they finally managed to make decent enough combat.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Great read. Their reviews are usually on point.

 

[Omadahl]

Wow. They really nail it with the review. It took me about 40 hours to realize I was having an incredibly boring time with this game. I can't imagine dumping 127 into it. What a nightmare.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

It's not a step back, if anything it's a game that just doesn't step in any direction from it's predecessor. I'm playing through it at the moment and it's great. It's essentially just a reskinned FO3, which isn't a bad thing. Why ruin a good thing l say!

The dialog system, skill tree, player characterization, basically everything that define it as an RPG is a massive step backwards. Maybe only somewhat from FO3, but massively from New Vegas.


Fallout 4 is no more an RPG than Far Cry 4.



I still really enjoy the gameplay, world, and settlement building. But as an RPG and as a Fallout game, it is terrible.

 

[Avari]

I have a friend who thinks FO4 is one of the best games he's ever played. I wouldn't try to convince him otherwise, but he doesn't really have many reasons to explain his opinion, in-depth.

I suspect he'd have even less reasons if this review were brought up. He never even finished The Witcher 3!! It's interesting to see GAF reflect on FO4 now that the hype has died.

Why not just let your friend enjoy the game? (Just realized you explicitly said you did - my bad. Poor reading comprehension without coffee)

What I'm really hoping for the next Fallout game is that all the people who dislike the game, crap on the people who do like the game, realize what type of RPG's Bethesda makes and don't purchase their next game so we don't have to listen to their whining.

There's a difference between critique and simply bashing those who enjoy something. Hard to find many reviews of the game that don't take a shot at the people who enjoy the game, rather then the game itself.

 

[HK-47]

Why not just let your friend enjoy the game?

What I'm really hoping for the next Fallout game is that all the people who dislike the game, crap on the people who do like the game, realize what type of RPG's Bethesda makes and don't purchase their next game so we don't have to listen to their whining.

There's a difference between critique and simply bashing those who enjoy something. Hard to find many reviews of the game that don't take a shot at the people who enjoy the game, rather then the game itself.

He is? He just said he wouldnt try to convince him otherwise.

 

[mattiewheels]

The dialog system, skill tree, player characterization, basically everything that define it as an RPG is a massive step backwards. Maybe only somewhat from FO3, but massively from New Vegas.


Fallout 4 is no more an RPG than Far Cry 4.

Well, you can choose between saying something normally or sarcastically at least.

 

[Avari]

He is? He just said he wouldnt try to convince him otherwise.

Yep my bad - just edited to correct. My only (poor) defense is I haven't had coffee yet this morning.

 

[Linkyn]

And yet I still clocked somewhere around 90 hours of gameplay. Hm.

That's not a good measure of quality, though. I put over 70 hours into AC: Unity because I wanted to get 100% completion, but it was so insanely tedious that I never want to play that game again.

 

[Metroidvania]

The 'Amusement Park' analogy is even more apt here than In FO3, in certain aspects.

Especially something as potentially game-changing as the Institute. It looks super cool/awesome...but what you can actually 'do' with it is entirely limited to the 'ride' Bethesda wants you to experience.

Especially when anything not explicitly designed as an amusement park ride (i.e. radiant quests, and some non-story quests) definitely takes a hit in originality/care given.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

In short BGS hate good thoughtful writing but so do the people who buy the majority of video games.

 

[Aaron D.]

What I'm really hoping for the next Fallout game is that all the people who dislike the game, crap on the people who do like the game, realize what type of RPG's Bethesda makes and don't purchase their next game so we don't have to listen to their whining.

There's a difference between critique and simply bashing those who enjoy something. Hard to find many reviews of the game that don't take a shot at the people who enjoy the game, rather then the game itself.

I've noticed a repeating pattern on 'Gaf where it seems like every year there will be two high-profile games pitted against each other resulting in a general black & white consensus. One is deemed God-tier. The other a Blight on Humanity. There's simply no room for nuance and middle-ground assessments.

This year Fallout 4 drew the shortest straw as 'Gaf's Whipping Boy of the Year. Unfortunate, but I guess it had to be someone.

I too hope that the dissenters just steer clear of Bethesda RPGs. There's obviously nothing the company can do right anymore so I imagine a lot of negativity could be completely avoided if they simply stay away. And let those who enjoy the Bethesda open-world formula celebrate what they do.

It's not that complicated.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

My expectations for f4 were extremely low so I ended up enjoying it more then I thought. Can't disagree with any of the criticisms, the dialogue system is soooooo terrible

 

[Mr.Marston]

One of the best reviews I've ever read.

It's rare that I just completely lose interest in a game but that's what happened with Fallout 4. Just no desire to continue playing it.

 

[potatohead]

I honestly thought F4 was Bethesda's best game since Morrowind. Sure it sucks in the RPG department but you should know Bethesda by now. Their games have been more like action adventure ever since 2006. And with F4 they finally managed to make decent enough combat.

I thought the same as well.

This and Morrowind are my favourite games from them.

Didn't like Oblivion or Skyrim. I mean I liked them I guess at parts, but didn't fancy them much.

They're dancing around in the skin of a beloved franchise, so it is a bit more complicated than that.

And yeah, I know that a lot of you guys started with Fallout 3 and you simply don't get why anybody cares about this, so just think of how you'd feel if some random developer was making these awkward AAA sequels to Chrono Trigger.

Square-Enix is doing that to Final Fantasy right now... lol.

 

[kamineko]

The review checks out.

Since my rather dismal experience with F4, I've gone back and played F3. Yes, a lot of F3's plot is ridiculous, but I enjoyed it so much more than F4. A lot of the dialog is fun, skills seem meaningful, leveling up seems meaningful. It at least offers RPG mechanics with some substance.

There's this narrative emerging that if you dislike F4 then you must just hate Bethesda, "leave Beth alone," etc etc. That isn't true at all, at least not for me. In a market saturated with shooters, why exactly would I want to give up everything I liked about F3 for ho-hum gunplay and a plot that is somehow even less credible than F3's?

 

[TheSpoiler]

I thought the same as well.

This and Morrowind are my favourite games from them.

Didn't like Oblivion or Skyrim. I mean I liked them I guess at parts, but didn't fancy them much.
Square-Enix is doing that to Final Fantasy right now... lol.

I feel like the difference with FF is that, at least from a gameplay perspective, you know what you are getting upfront. The marketing is making no attempt to hide that this is an action RPG outing, and that's fine. FO4 did not do that. It attempted to hide the fact that there were less RPG features than before until we hit release, so you could imagine how upset people were.

 

[Rektash]

Review feels dead on to be honest. The only reason I put 70 hours into the game was because of the fantastic open world Bethesda managed to build. Everything else, be it story, characters, dialoge, rpg mechanics, settlement building or quest design, was a trainwreck.

At some point I just got tired of exploring yet another boring set of ruins and never touched the game again.

Fallout 4 feels like the kind of game you'd make when you run out of good, fun ideas. Everything is formulaic, nothing engaging or exciting.

 

[Sarek]

I honestly thought F4 was Bethesda's best game since Morrowind. Sure it sucks in the RPG department but you should know Bethesda by now. Their games have been more like action adventure ever since 2006. And with F4 they finally managed to make decent enough combat.

I think Oblivion was still a pretty good RPG, and the expansion Shivering Isles was even better. At least back then they still clearly put some thought into quest design, and writing.

For me personally Skyrim was probably the last Bethesda game I'll buy. I just simply couldn't make myself care about anything in the game. For game based so heavily on exploration the caves and dungeons felt way too similar to each other, and other really jarring thing was that they seemed to have like 10 different voice actors in the whole game.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Playing devil's advocate here: the bolded is not Bethesda's problem. It's the fans'.

Well then.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I think it would make more sense to compare the game against other games like Borderlands or dying light this is, games that are open world action games with loot and level up.

 

[potatohead]

I feel like the difference with FF is that, at least from a gameplay perspective, you know what you are getting upfront. The marketing is making no attempt to hide that this is an action RPG outing, and that's fine. FO4 did not do that. It attempted to hide the fact that there were less RPG features than before until we hit release, so you could imagine how upset people were.

I thought they managed expectations pretty well, at least from my perspective, it seemed similar to the later 3D fallout games.

But I'm really not that familiar with this series so I can't interpret what people more invested into the series see. I'm really not informed of the history of this series or in general more higher level WRPG mechanics (I haven't played many besides Morrowind).

I think my expectations were probably a lot different from long-time series fans probably. Main thing I was interested in really was building towns lmao

 

[pantsmith]

I've noticed a repeating pattern on 'Gaf where it seems like every year there will be two high-profile games pitted against each other resulting in a general black & white consensus. One is deemed God-tier. The other a Blight on Humanity. There's simply no room for nuance and middle-ground assessments.

This year Fallout 4 drew the shortest straw as 'Gaf's Whipping Boy of the Year. Unfortunate, but I guess it had to be someone.

People on GAF like video games, and are more likely to have a working knowledge of both role playing games and the Fallout series. Fallout 4 fails as both.

Its not some magical shortest straw, Fallout 4 has real problems that this review outlines pretty clearly.

 

[Aaron D.]

And yeah, I know that a lot of you guys started with Fallout 3 and you simply don't get why anybody cares about this, so just think of how you'd feel if some random developer was making these awkward AAA sequels to Chrono Trigger.

I've been around since Fallout 1, but thanks for the condescending "too dumb to know the difference" tone.

 

[IcyRhythms]

It's scary because Fallout 4 is the most successful Fallout game. It's now likely Bethesda will say "fuck it" to all of the negative feedback the game received from fans and make all of the Fallout games like 4. These companies look at the data. The data tells them the game sold really well. They don't care about critic reviews or what fans think. If the numbers say $$$, that's all that matters.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

You should have used the review title for the thread

Or the 13th point:

13. Fallout 4 is a bad game​

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Fallout 4 is the most disappointing game I've ever played and my sole hope with this franchise moving forward is that 5 years worth of mods might transform the game into something more palatable to me.

 

[jwhit28]

Couldn't bring myself to finish Fallout 4 despite Fallout 3 being my first defining moment with the 360/PS3 consoles. It's not Dragon Age 2 disappointing, but pretty close.