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RTTP: Arkham Asylum, Arkham City; LTTP: Batman: A Telltale Series

BATMAN! BATMAN! BATMAN!

Most nerds can't get enough of the man-child running around in long-underwear speaking in a deep, gravely voice to other disaffected weirdos about justice. Including myself. I've loved Batman and all his various iterations since early childhood, having the fortune of being raised on Batman: The Animated Series and the Adam West Batman all around the same time.

Naturally there's been a whole lot of games about playing the Batman, because, why wouldn't there be? But a grand amount of them (but not all) sucked for various reasons. With the release of Arkham Asylum though, that all changed. By transforming the world of Batman into a character-action "Metroid Prime-Light" style game, devs appeared to finally crack the Batman formula. Helping make the whole game go down smooth, Paul Dini, Kevin Conroy, and Mark Hamill all lent a helping hand. It spawned three sequels, each of which has their own devoted fans. I hadn't played either of the original two entries for a few years, and after feeling a heavy Batman kick due to a favorite podcast of mine running through an analysis of Nolan's Batman trilogy (Blank Check with Griffin and David), I decided to pick up Return to Arkham on a sale. I also decided to pick up TellTale's Batman Series on the cheap because, hey, Batman.

For some background, my Arkham rankings prior to this playthrough are as follows:

1. Asylum
2. Origins
3. Knight
4. City

While I enjoyed the story in each of these games, I'd always felt that, for Asylum and City, the narrative was more about sending Batman around from villain to villain. Playing again, while I appreciate all the unique narrative choices Asylum made, the story feels at odds with the game design. There's some big elaborate party the Joker has planned with Batman being the guest of honor, only to repeatedly try to kill Batman over and over and over again. With the constant threat of death in game mechanics, it feels weird to know that supposedly Joker has this grand old plan that is VERY contingent on Batman staying alive. And the weird fetch quests that Batman is sent on that lead to his encounters with villains like Croc and Ivy feel perfunctory narratively, less to do with what they can get out of Batman in a character, and more to do with: Hey here's a villain with a unique boss battle. And some of the time (see the Killer Croc battle) the boss mechanics are just plain rotten.

That all changes is every fight with Scarecrow. While the Scarecrow sequences are relatively simplistic in terms of actual mechanics, the preludes and postludes are some of the best things about this game. I won't spoil anything, but each of these fights does a great job of shifting character perspective, game perspective, camera perspective, and even mechanical expectations. Rocksteady appears to have a great deal of fun with these moments trying to scare and disorient the player, and even with knowing all the tricks, these moments are still a whole lot of fun (and help demonstrate why Knight, despite its flaws, is still so so so good). These moments also reveal more about Batman and the player's relationship with Batman that are literally non-existent in the rest of the game.

What the game is lacking in narrative, it makes up for in atmosphere with ease. Every moment in the Asylum has Hamill's Joker taunting you over the loud speaker. Every death is punctuated by one of the villians taunting you over your failure in a manner that's admittedly unsettling. The goons have some really great lines that sell their fear of the Bat and the other supers they're surrounded by. The art style hearkens back to the best of Burton, the Animated Series, Schmaucher, and Nolan. And there's so lore for days with audio logs, Arkham entries, and other unlockables, most of which are thankfully still accessible while still solving a puzzle or fighting a buttload of goons. On top of all that, Rocksteady decided to link environmental puzzles to the Riddler, who goes from glib to enraged with every puzzle you solve.

All this contributes to Rocksteady's greatest feat. In Asylum, you truly feel like you're Batman, you truly feel like the Joker is out to get you, you truly feel like everyone is terrified of you, you truly feel like you're in the world of Gotham, with all its people, all its kinks, all its quirks. The combat (which has been written about over and over again) lifts from Ultimate Spider-Man (UNDERAPPRECIATED), in keeping the focus of the fight on one button, pressed in sync with the reading enemy prompts, resulting in beautiful, brutal clashes. The stealth encourages using various devices to sabotage and scare armed enemies in mini-sand boxes. And the toys the given you feel right at home with what Batman is.

That's not to say there isn't room for improvement. Because many of the crucial buttons, like running and jumping, are context specific, there's a whole lotta jank as to when those buttons will do what you want them to do. Expecting to jump over a railing to avoid an armed enemy spotting you, Batman will just run into the railing over and over, ramming it with his bat crotch. Think you just engaged the jump over enemy button? Ha! Batman's just gonna keep on running into that dude with the smeared make-up who just really wants to punch you. There's camera problems in fights as well. The camera usually pans out in combat sequences, allowing you to see all the enemies you're fighting at once. At that works...most of the time. The times that it doesn't feel really cheap and frustrating, particularly when you've got a good combo streak going. It's real hard in this game to cancel out of an action after it's been initiated, which would normally be fine, if it weren't for the counter prompts coming at moments where you literally can't counter.

Lastly, for a game that's aping Metroid Prime, the solutions to how to get to where you need to go next are pretty much arbitrary. The problem isn't Batman's devices, which are great, the problem is the environmental prompts, which are insanely bad. You often won't know that a piece of wall is breakable with explosives without keeping detective mode on at all times. You won't know that there's a wall you can link to with the double sided rope grapple without having the rope grapple aimed at every wall you can find. Metroid Prime partly works as well as it does because its environmental puzzles are teaching the player a language about the world around it, with rewards hiding behind understanding the language. In Arkham Asylum, level design is much more haphazard regarding puzzles. It's not that these enviornmental puzzles are hard (or that there isn't a language, the player learns the meaning of an air vent or sewer grate very quickly), it's just that, many of the devices don't feel like they contribute to some new meaningful understanding of the environment based on a language learned by the player. For me, that's rough.

City took things in a whole different direction, to my chagrin at the time. Where Asylum was tight in its construction, City was an open world, arguably full of the same haphazard decision that frustrated my experiences with Arkham. Making things worse, the player starts as Catwoman, and if there's any character Dini has no idea how to write, it's Catwoman. Her lines couldn't be more hammy if she did them with a Porky impression (and yes, that's a joke Catwoman would make under Paul Dini). Playing again though, City feels like an admission from the Devs that they knew they weren't going to succeed at aping Metroid Prime's level design. Very few, if any, really can.

So why bother? Sure, they kept the environmental puzzles, but that's not the draw here. Instead, we get ourselves a story full of zips, twists, and turns, a grapple accelerator letting Batman fly around an open world, combat and basic mechanics that mostly improve on all the other complaints I had about Asylum, and some really great side-quests that give you the tour of Batman's history and villains without letting those moments distract from the narrative. Rocksteady doubled down on what really worked with Asylum, making an incredibly enjoyable game that mostly plays great moment to moment. And added a buttload of dumb puzzles for those masochists out there.

Also that Mr. Freeze boss fight. Man, that Mr. Freeze boss fight is so good.

Sure City's more distracted than Asylum, but looking back, the distraction is a good thing. The side-quests are far and away City's greatest contribution. Each mini-narrative adds variety mechanically and gives those lore-maniacs a little more of what they love. Not all are winners, but, like the Witcher 3, when the quality is generally so uniformly good, you have to take notice. Even when the narrative is gets a little too convoluted for its own good, City always has the narrative of its excellent side-quests to fall back on.

In the end, while I commend Asylum for its excellent seminal work, I'm walking away with a lesser amount of appreciation for it while holding a much higher appreciation for City. Both games are far from perfect, but City takes the many recent frustrations I had with Asylum and either improves on them or throws me something shiny to look at once I start noticing otherwise. If you haven't yet and are interested, I highly recommend both.

(Please note that Asylum runs fine in the collection on PS4, but there are some frame-rate hitches in City. Let factor into your decision making how you will)

TL:DR: I liked Asylum better than City originally, but now I like City better than Asylum

Now that's off my chest, let's go for the narrative jugular: Batman: A Telltale Series.

Like most people, my experience with Telltale games are mixed. I loved Strong-Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People. I loved Walking Dead Season 1. I loved the Wolf Among Us. Mostly avoided everything else until Telltale got their shit together with their engine. A friend recommended I try this new Batman thing after I talked to him about returning to Arkham, so I picked it up on the cheap.

Telltale's engine is still a problem. It's mostly fine visually, but there's still bugs all over, frame-rate hitching at weird points, and full blown crashes. It didn't eat my save data, but that doesn't mean that hasn't happened before (I'm looking at you Bigby).

That all said, holy shit is this a fucking solid Batman narrative.

Batman usually has a problem of being outshined by his villains. And why wouldn't he? Bruce Wayne is dull, and Batman, as a concept, is crazy silly. What always drove me to Batman was less the actual character and more the horror-elements, weird philosophy clashes, and fun moral quandaries. Telltale reboots Batman and most of the characters surrounding him in a way reminiscent of Scott Snyder's recent run with Batman at DC. Gordon is not exactly who you remember him, Harvey Dent is on a slightly different trajectory, Falcone may be as much enemy as ally, and your parents, well, that's the fun focal point. Telltale has a whole lot of fun using Penguin, Mayor Hill, Falcone, and Alfred to mess with Bruce Wayne's moral foundation, forcing Wayne into an existential crisis in the process. What results is a story feeling ripped straight from the comics (and in some ways better than many of the current comics). It doesn't necessarily end on the most conclusive note, but, c'mon, it's not like most of the comics do anyway.

In short, if you can stomach the MANY technical problems, and you're a Bat fan, I really recommend this Telltale adventure. It's a run ride for Gothamites, that, at the very least, is really worth watching via a youtube playthrough.
 
I've only heard bad things about the Telltale series version but you've got me interested. Funny you started this thread - I recently started playing through Arkham Asylum for the very first time on my PS4 after picking up the "Return to Arkham" collection for $15 a couple of weeks ago (I never owned a PS3). I had played City before on the PC and loved it.

I completed Asylum yesterday and got about 10% of the way through City. I had forgotten how addictive City could be and I found Asylum to be just as addictive. I still need to go through and solve the rest of the Riddler puzzles. One of my only problems with these types of games (and well, any "open world" or "hub" type games) with side quests and collectibles is that the buildup and momentum playing through the main storyline is completely lost on me and it's immersion-breaking to go solving riddles or hunting for collectibles when "OH MY GOD THE BAD GUY HAS A BOMB AND HE'S GOING TO BLOWUP EVERYTHING UNLESS YOU STOP HIM!!11!1!" but oh look - a new riddle to solve first! I've got time to solve all these Riddler puzzles and figure out how to access Riddler trophies and interview tapes while the rest of Gotham holds its collective breath waiting for Batman to save the day!

So I tend to go back and find the rest of the collectibles later on after the game is over - or more typically - I never end up finding them all because usually the game world gets more and more deadly (hard to find collectibles with snipers everywhere that you need to take out, for example).

Anyway - I only played about 3/4 through Arkham Knight before I got so tired of the BatTank. The BatMobile sections where you drive it as a car I thought were (typically) well done and driving the BatMobile was fun. I HATE the tank stuff though and felt that it went totally against all that Batman strives to be. He hates killing people and dislikes guns but he'll drive a fricking tank! (even if the tank guns fires "concussive" or non-lethal bullets - yeah, ok). Arkham Knight felt much less tight and much more distracted than City but I did enjoy it as a "bigger and better" City in some respects. Rocksteady just made some bad design decisions for Knight (such as that BatTank fights) and the villains just don't grab you the same way as in Asylum or City.

Speaking of the villains I thought that Joker in Asylum was just about the best villain in any video game ever. Mark Hamill's Joker voice, the writing/script, were actually better than Joker in any Batman movie I've ever seen (and I've seen all of them).

So my personal ranking of the games is:
1) City
2) Asylum
3) Knight
(never played Origins)

But there are some aspects of Asylum I like better than City and a couple of things about Knight I like best. This is just an overall ranking.
 
I've only heard bad things about the Telltale series version but you've got me interested. Funny you started this thread - I recently started playing through Arkham Asylum for the very first time on my PS4 after picking up the "Return to Arkham" collection for $15 a couple of weeks ago (I never owned a PS3). I had played City before on the PC and loved it.

I completed Asylum yesterday and got about 10% of the way through City. I had forgotten how addictive City could be and I found Asylum to be just as addictive. I still need to go through and solve the rest of the Riddler puzzles. One of my only problems with these types of games (and well, any "open world" or "hub" type games) with side quests and collectibles is that the buildup and momentum playing through the main storyline is completely lost on me and it's immersion-breaking to go solving riddles or hunting for collectibles when "OH MY GOD THE BAD GUY HAS A BOMB AND HE'S GOING TO BLOWUP EVERYTHING UNLESS YOU STOP HIM!!11!1!" but oh look - a new riddle to solve first! I've got time to solve all these Riddler puzzles and figure out how to access Riddler trophies and interview tapes while the rest of Gotham holds its collective breath waiting for Batman to save the day!

So I tend to go back and find the rest of the collectibles later on after the game is over - or more typically - I never end up finding them all because usually the game world gets more and more deadly (hard to find collectibles with snipers everywhere that you need to take out, for example).

Anyway - I only played about 3/4 through Arkham Knight before I got so tired of the BatTank. The BatMobile sections where you drive it as a car I thought were (typically) well done and driving the BatMobile was fun. I HATE the tank stuff though and felt that it went totally against all that Batman strives to be. He hates killing people and dislikes guns but he'll drive a fricking tank! (even if the tank guns fires "concussive" or non-lethal bullets - yeah, ok). Arkham Knight felt much less tight and much more distracted than City but I did enjoy it as a "bigger and better" City in some respects. Rocksteady just made some bad design decisions for Knight (such as that BatTank fights) and the villains just don't grab you the same way as in Asylum or City.

Speaking of the villains I thought that Joker in Asylum was just about the best villain in any video game ever. Mark Hamill's Joker voice, the writing/script, were actually better than Joker in any Batman movie I've ever seen (and I've seen all of them).

So my personal ranking of the games is:
1) City
2) Asylum
3) Knight
(never played Origins)

But there are some aspects of Asylum I like better than City and a couple of things about Knight I like best. This is just an overall ranking.

I totally get the Batmobile thing, and completely agree as to Hamill's Joker. It's far and away Hamill's best portrayal of the Joker in anything, partly because he was relegated to a show for children before this. He's just so so good and the animators really help with deliver an excellent performance overall.

And yeah, the Batmobile thing is REALLY polarizing, which would be fine if there wasn't so much of it! The conceit of Batman having to deal with the Joker inside him really helped me power through though. It's just such an interesting concept and really gives Hamill more opportunity to mess with you in the best way possible.

It's just really funny how, even though each entry is so iterative, how there's still stuff in each that really polarizes fans of a given entry. I can totally see that ranking. City is so big, almost too big, but filled with so much side activities that are really good, but can distract from the narrative. Asylum is concise, but has some rough spots that haven't aged well. And Knight has that damn batmobile, but some of the coolest Batman/Joker stuff. Each has some really amazing strengths that make them all stand out. It's such an odd franchise in that respect.

As to the Telltale series, it really might be worth watching a playthrough of the first episode before spending the money on it. I found it to be a really great take on Wayne, but I know there are some who found it really derivative of stuff like Batman R.I.P., while others just wrote it off as another Telltale mess (not unjustifiable, I might add, it is REALLY buggy).
 
It's just really funny how, even though each entry is so iterative, how there's still stuff in each that really polarizes fans of a given entry. I can totally see that ranking. City is so big, almost too big, but filled with so much side activities that are really good, but can distract from the narrative. Asylum is concise, but has some rough spots that haven't aged well. And Knight has that damn batmobile, but some of the coolest Batman/Joker stuff. Each has some really amazing strengths that make them all stand out. It's such an odd franchise in that respect.

Agreed on the Joker and was glad he was in Arkham Knight. I know people had trouble with the Joker in Knight, feeling that it was tacked on but I actually was very glad for the Joker's presence. It did give Hamill more voice time and to me the Batman series has always been primarily the difference between Batman and the Joker (with the other characters just being foils or secondary to these main two). And judging from the dullness of the villain the "Arkham Knight", Joker
even dead and only imagined by Batman
still has more character and life.

I had heard such bad stuff about the Batmobile in Arkham Knight that I was expecting absolute awfulness but in my opinion, except for the lame tanky stuff, the Batmobile met my expecatations, handled well, felt powerful and fast, etc. I thought the car mechanics were just fine in the game in comparison to many other open world vehicle games (like the GTA series) and fell in love with the car.

I just really, really, really hated the tank aspect. It felt tacked on, not very "Batman-like" (even if it derived somewhat from the later Nolan movies featuring a more militarized Batman) and the need to get into combat with it as a tank were not fun to me. I wish it would have been used only to get quickly around Gotham City, chasing bad guys in (non-tank) vehicles, and it's fine for it to be used in some missions, challenges, or puzzles. I think it should have been added as just another cool Batman toy rather than as a core pillar of the gameplay.

Other than the tank-stuff I remember enjoying Arkham Knight fairly well - I will be getting into it again after my playthrough of Arkham City.

Still, great series of games.

EDIT: Not sure why it's just the two of us in this thread on NeoGAF. That is bizarre and I've never seen such a thing except some way out old, dead thread in a far flung corner of the forum. Weird that nobody has yet chimed in on this besides me.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
The Telltale Series is easily the best Batman story in videogame form. The Arkham games go all over the place in terms of narrative.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
I just finished the Batman Telltale Season myself last week. I was also really fond of its unique take on the franchise traditions.

However I did feel it kind of shat the bed starting with the end of Act 3 and through its concluding episode. I still enjoyed it overall, but the villain reveal and the attempted explanation just never really won me over and left a nagging feeling that this was designed around pure shock value, unlike the well constructed setup of other characters shown earlier.

Still recommended though, just problematic in its back third.
 
However I did feel it kind of shat the bed starting with the end of Act 3 and through its concluding episode. I still enjoyed it overall, but the villain reveal and the attempted explanation just never really won me over and left a nagging feeling that this was designed around pure shock value, unlike the well constructed setup of other characters shown earlier.

Still recommended though, just problematic in its back third.

This is pretty much how I felt about it too although ultimately, I found it pretty forgettable overall.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Zero lies on the OP.

Asylum is still better than the rest, and Origins is right behind.

Origins only sin is that it came too soon after City and Knight was already a thing.
 
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