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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
Sigismundo
Member
I'm doing a Pokémon marathon where I play every main series game (one of each pair + third versions + one of each remake) and White is gonna be an interesting playthrough.
Normally I usually just wing it when it comes to in-game teambuilding but since I like or tolerate very few Pokémon from Gen 5 (about 20 or so) I'm gonna have to plan this out.
Normally I usually just wing it when it comes to in-game teambuilding but since I like or tolerate very few Pokémon from Gen 5 (about 20 or so) I'm gonna have to plan this out.
killertofu
Member
Found my Heart Gold game and booted it up after 3 years and I have no idea what I'm doing...
Found my Pokémon White box but no game inside
Found my Pokémon White box but no game inside
I might get banned.
Or end up dead and washed up on the beach of Undella Bay.
Unova's Pokémon designs are way better than Sinnoh's!
MisterHero
Super Member
Hi all. A question about the Pokémon VC trio!
What's the deal with self-trading? The games are digital-only. That means they're tied to our NNID accounts and only one hardware. That means you can't self-trade.
I mean, I have RBY in their original carts, but not being able to self-trade to complete these modern releases would bug the crap out of me.
I guess you could get a separate 3ds, NNID account and copies of RBY, but that's even more expensive than it was in the Gameboy era.
edit: I might be getting the RB 3DS. So maybe I can get Yellow on my primary 3DS and just play/complete the others before [if] I register them to my NNID. Could work...
What's the deal with self-trading? The games are digital-only. That means they're tied to our NNID accounts and only one hardware. That means you can't self-trade.
I mean, I have RBY in their original carts, but not being able to self-trade to complete these modern releases would bug the crap out of me.
I guess you could get a separate 3ds, NNID account and copies of RBY, but that's even more expensive than it was in the Gameboy era.
edit: I might be getting the RB 3DS. So maybe I can get Yellow on my primary 3DS and just play/complete the others before [if] I register them to my NNID. Could work...
Unova has a mix of some of the best and worst Pokemon ever.
These are actual Pokemon that exist. I did not make up any of them. If you say you remember all of them, you are lying or run one of the biggest Pokemon websites on the internet.
Gen V suffers from so many Pokemon that are basically alternate reality versions of existing ones. Gen V as a whole feels like what would happen if another company made Pokemon. IT'S JUST WEIRD.
But back to Gen IV, one thing I liked about it is all the different forms and ways to evolve Pokemon. One of my favorite aspects of the games is actually catching them, so I liked how Gen IV gave you interesting ways to acquire them.
These are actual Pokemon that exist. I did not make up any of them. If you say you remember all of them, you are lying or run one of the biggest Pokemon websites on the internet.
Gen V suffers from so many Pokemon that are basically alternate reality versions of existing ones. Gen V as a whole feels like what would happen if another company made Pokemon. IT'S JUST WEIRD.
But back to Gen IV, one thing I liked about it is all the different forms and ways to evolve Pokemon. One of my favorite aspects of the games is actually catching them, so I liked how Gen IV gave you interesting ways to acquire them.
unknownstranger
Member
The only one of these I kind of forgot is Bayheem or whatever the metal psychic one is called. I forgot the names of a few others but I definitely recognize them. Heatmor I mainly remember because of his Pokedex entry.
How can you not like Jellicent or Bouffalant? Those magnificent mustache and afro respectively are worthy of awe.
pokemonsquared
Banned
I went on a pokedex filling spree today.
Ducklett and beheemyem were among the ones I caught so they're still fresh.
Ducklett and beheemyem were among the ones I caught so they're still fresh.
I think this is my first time seeing this PokemonThese are actual Pokemon that exist. I did not make up any of them. If you say you remember all of them, you are lying or run one of the biggest Pokemon websites on the internet.
papertoonz
Member
Gothitelle is in that list so yes.
I fear some people might get banned during Unova >.>
unknownstranger
Member
Gen 5 went really weird with all the Psychic type Pokémon but they're pretty much all crap competitively.
pokemonsquared
Banned
Reunicleus was a beast back in the day. I wonder why no one uses it anymore.
I'm not lying and I'm not Joe. I love most of those Pokemon.
Also, anyone who played Black and White is not gonna forget Watchog because of how fucking annoying it is to fight.
papertoonz
Member
yeah this place is going to get crazy but for the time being can we please not go into gen 5 now? i understand i'm trying to hold off the inevitable but Gen 5 is going to have more than enough time for us to kill each other so lets enjoy the peace for now
Reuniclus isn't. Sigilyph isn't. Gothitelle with Shadow Tag isn't. Musharna, well, it's okay in its tier. Beeyem is probably the worst of the lot.
I actually rather like most of them. An all Psychic run through those games would be fun! I do know that on my first run of Black I dropped Musharna. Don't know if I evolved too early and it's moves were trash or if the super slow speed killed it, but oh well.
Reuniclus and Gothitelle (With Shadow Tag) are both very solid.
Sigilyph is also pretty cool.
EDIT: LOL Beaten.
unknownstranger
Member
The problem is almost all of them have bad speed, which is why I dropped Musharna in my first playthrough of White. I tried catching Sigilyph but didn't have any luck.
Edit: By competitively I meant using them in game to Elite 4. I have no idea how good or bad any of them are competitively but I've never seen anyone use them.
PataHikari
Banned
While I do agree Unova does have a bunch of forgettable Pokemon more than any other gen, I can't agree that Jellicent (with that fancy Pringles moustache!), Heatmor maybe, and especially one of my favorites Bouffalant are forgettable.
But thanks to Super Mystery Dungeon, there's no way I can forget Beheeyem and Watchog now lol.
Reuniclus is pretty great in-game; it might be slow as a snail, but it takes hits very well and dishes out some heavy damage.
Beheeyem suffers from evolving too late like a lot of other Unova Pokemon, but it's not garbage. It's basically a worse Reuniclus.
I remember all of them.
Watchog is the evolution of the early rodent and he's the final Pokemon of the second gym leader.
Basculin is an annoyance that always seems to show up when you are fishing for something else.
Maractus is memorable because people keep bringing it up as unmemorable.
Ducklett is cute and I used one (and Swanna) in my run through of White 2.
Jellicent is memorable due to the type and the beard on the guys.
Beheeyem are memorable to me due to the word play (BEM AKA Bug Eyed Monster) and they have a role in the newest Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.
Boufalant kept showing up when I was looking for a Rufflet.
Heatmor is an anteater Pokemon and I love anteaters.
unknownstranger
Member
Heatmor I remember because his Pokedex entry says it melts Durant's non-metal body parts and then sucks them out and eats them, or something like that.
You did not just defend Maractus
unknownstranger
Member
I remember awhile ago counting how many non-pseudo legendaries evolved after 40 in the first 4 gens compared to gen 5 and it was something like one for the first 4 gens (I think Rhydon) and 7 for gen 5 alone.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Beheeyem has a shitty dub
It's more than 7 for gen 5.
Larvesta, Elgyem, Mienfoo, Rufflet, Vullaby, Pawniard, Golett, Klang, Fraxure, Vanillish, and probably a few more I'm forgetting.
It's ridiculous. I don't know why Gamefreak did it, but it really messes up trying to include these Pokemon in other games; Pawniard and Bisharp are cool, but you'll never see them until very late in the game because Pawniard evolves at level 52.
I've seen people defend fucking Delibird. Maractus at least is fine in-game and has a fairly cute design.
unknownstranger
Member
I think I started at 50 and then decided to check at 40.
Delibird had a fun minigame in Pokemon Stadium and has a signature move. Maractus has none of that. It looks like it should be in some evolutionary line, but it's not. There's already a cactus Pokemon anyways, furthering my point of Gen V having a bunch of bizarro doppelganger Pokemon.
I saw some interview with Masuda the other day, talking about how they had 300 designs for Pokemon RB and picked the best ones. Obviously some were probably included in Gen II as well, but I really wonder how many of those original 300 actually came to fruition. It would be trippy to learn one of the Gen VI Pokemon were actually designed all the way back in the 90s.
I will fully admit I give certain Pokémon a pass because of their Pokémon Stadium mini-games. That's why they need to make more of those!
Are you seriously arguing that Present is a point in Delibird's favor?
Yes, Delibird has a signature move. Its signature move sucks. It's not even a unique gimmick because Metronome does the same thing in a more interesting and actually fun way.
Plenty of other shitty Pokemon have signature moves or gimmicks (Like Cherrim, who has a signature ability, or Burmy, who has an interesting evolution gimmick) but I don't see them get the same lame ass excuse Delibird does.
The only redeeming thing about Delibird is being Team Rocket's debt collector.
Are you saying Scrafty isn't amazing?
I remember them all, but I just recently played both gen 5 games. Maractus, Beeheeyem, and Heatmor are pretty forgettable. I don't see how anyone could forget Watchog or Basculin though, they're basically the rattata and tentacool of gen 5: they're fucking everywhere and they're fucking obnoxious.
Unova should be fun. I look forward to respectfully criticising most of that 'dex.
Scrafty was a major disappointment. I absolutely adored Scraggy, but Scrafty just looks...off. It's the eyes. And the weird mouth. Can't say I like the Mohawk either, but I see what that were going for with that. Just the head in general tbh.
Scrafty was a major disappointment. I absolutely adored Scraggy, but Scrafty just looks...off. It's the eyes. And the weird mouth. Can't say I like the Mohawk either, but I see what that were going for with that. Just the head in general tbh.
woopWOOP
Member
I remember all of these since I replayed the best gen a lot of times. I also like all of these, except for maybe that psychic alien type monster. Far better than most of gen 4's shitty new evolutions atleast.
Also Maractus >>>>>> that fugly scarecrow cactus form gen 3
balladofwindfishes
Member
Meractus wishes it was Cacturne
See, my problem with the "This Pokèmon just appears to be an alternate form of that one!" is that it completely disregards how genetic variation within Class and Order is. There are differing species of birds in real life, why not in Pokèmon?
For example, Bouffalant. Some say "It's too similar to tauros". But other than the fact that a buffalo and a bull are not the same thing, Bouffalant brings its own unique variation. Slower, more defensive, and has afro crash. It's a quaint and memorable design.
And that's the same for alot of Unova Pokèmon. I won't claim to have remembered that all of those existed (like Beheeyem or Elgyem for that matter) but the rest of those stand out because they are either a unique animal/whatever or variation of one.
For example, Bouffalant. Some say "It's too similar to tauros". But other than the fact that a buffalo and a bull are not the same thing, Bouffalant brings its own unique variation. Slower, more defensive, and has afro crash. It's a quaint and memorable design.
And that's the same for alot of Unova Pokèmon. I won't claim to have remembered that all of those existed (like Beheeyem or Elgyem for that matter) but the rest of those stand out because they are either a unique animal/whatever or variation of one.
I think Bouffalant would have been fine if it were more different from Tauros. It's fine if there are Pokemon based on visually similar species, but Bouffalant has the same body shape, the same type and a very similar color scheme to Tauros.
There are even Pokemon that reuse similar gimmicks (e.g. Kingler and Clawitzer having one claw much larger than the other) but nobody complains about it because otherwise they are so dissimilar to each other.
Honestly, even if Bouffalant was a Tauros evolution there would probably be people complaining that he changes so little after evolving.
Now, much as a chapter from Moby Dick, we shall have an apt comparison of the two.
We see differing shades of brown, a darker coat for the buffalo naturally reflecting the thicker coat. Longer, gold ringed horns for the buffalo (vs the silver coated of the bull), yet the bull has thrice the tail amount. An afro masks part of the body shape, yet we observe the ridge being much more dramatic for the buffalo before ending in hair. The legs partially uncoated by hair for the Bouffalant, but not the Tauros.
Now one might say that the similarities merely reflect the similarities found between the two in real life. They would not be wrong. And yet, typing may have differentiated the two ever the more. Maybe fighting or dark or even steel.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Haha, Bouffalant reminds me.
Last week I was wandering around Hoenn hatching eggs, when I hear this ungodly loud, bizarre cry out in the wild, with shaking grass. So I very carefully approach it, wondering what on earth this loud, crazy cry is from.
And it was Bouffalant.
Yippee...
Bouffalant is similar to Tauros, but only because what they're based off of are similar. Buffalos and Bulls are similar looking. I don't consider him a "copycat" Pokemon, because he doesn't fit the same niche Tauros had. Tauros is a fast, attack oriented Pokemon with a strangely large moveset. He's basically a standard Gen I normal type. Persian also had this same niche. Bouffalant is a Pokemon that relies on heavy, hard attacks that have a lot of recoil. Or that's his intended gimmick anyway.
He's not at all the same as someone like Throh and Sawk as Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan, or Conkeldurr as Machamp. Those are blatantly obvious attempts to refill a niche that already existed for the sake of making new Pokemon, and those are the sorts of Pokemon that are weak designs in Gen V. They try too hard to be other Pokemon, while also trying to be unique, when time would have been better spent not even bothering to copycat old Pokemon, and instead just use those old Pokemon and invent new Pokemon with new niches.
Gen V is at its strongest when it wasn't trying to pretend to be Gen I. Pokemon like Galvantula and Chandelure try new ideas and new niches. Chandelure isn't "copycat" Gengar, even though Chandelure seems to be intended as such. But it isn't. Because it's just so different from Gengar, there's no resemblance at all. Galvantula doesn't even have any gen counterpart. They go all the way with Galvantula, even inventing an entirely new move to cement the idea of an electric spider. And Galvantula is just incredibly well designed all around, that I can't even think of any Pokemon he'd even be meant to replace from an older gen. And then you have Gen V's attempts at copying where it just gets it right. Amoongus is the "mimic" of Gen V, replacing Electrode. But unlike Electrode, Amoongus is an entirely different type, way different stats and an entirely different bunch of gimmicks. It's also a much more unique and interesting design that goes well beyond Electrode. It fits the same intended role as Electrode, without resorting to copying every gimmick about Electrode (super fast, self destructing). If anything, Amoogus borrows Parasect's gimmick, rather than Electrode, but nobody cares about Parasect, and Amoongus is just a better design and a better Pokemon in general than either Electrode or Parasect.
On that note, Swoobat is never going to be Crobat, no matter how hard they want to make it Crobat, because nothing can beat Crobat as the "annoying early game Pokemon that is actually pretty good." Except Tentacool. Who is unquestionably the king of annoying early game Pokemon that are actually beasts.
Last week I was wandering around Hoenn hatching eggs, when I hear this ungodly loud, bizarre cry out in the wild, with shaking grass. So I very carefully approach it, wondering what on earth this loud, crazy cry is from.
And it was Bouffalant.
Yippee...
Bouffalant is similar to Tauros, but only because what they're based off of are similar. Buffalos and Bulls are similar looking. I don't consider him a "copycat" Pokemon, because he doesn't fit the same niche Tauros had. Tauros is a fast, attack oriented Pokemon with a strangely large moveset. He's basically a standard Gen I normal type. Persian also had this same niche. Bouffalant is a Pokemon that relies on heavy, hard attacks that have a lot of recoil. Or that's his intended gimmick anyway.
He's not at all the same as someone like Throh and Sawk as Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan, or Conkeldurr as Machamp. Those are blatantly obvious attempts to refill a niche that already existed for the sake of making new Pokemon, and those are the sorts of Pokemon that are weak designs in Gen V. They try too hard to be other Pokemon, while also trying to be unique, when time would have been better spent not even bothering to copycat old Pokemon, and instead just use those old Pokemon and invent new Pokemon with new niches.
Gen V is at its strongest when it wasn't trying to pretend to be Gen I. Pokemon like Galvantula and Chandelure try new ideas and new niches. Chandelure isn't "copycat" Gengar, even though Chandelure seems to be intended as such. But it isn't. Because it's just so different from Gengar, there's no resemblance at all. Galvantula doesn't even have any gen counterpart. They go all the way with Galvantula, even inventing an entirely new move to cement the idea of an electric spider. And Galvantula is just incredibly well designed all around, that I can't even think of any Pokemon he'd even be meant to replace from an older gen. And then you have Gen V's attempts at copying where it just gets it right. Amoongus is the "mimic" of Gen V, replacing Electrode. But unlike Electrode, Amoongus is an entirely different type, way different stats and an entirely different bunch of gimmicks. It's also a much more unique and interesting design that goes well beyond Electrode. It fits the same intended role as Electrode, without resorting to copying every gimmick about Electrode (super fast, self destructing). If anything, Amoogus borrows Parasect's gimmick, rather than Electrode, but nobody cares about Parasect, and Amoongus is just a better design and a better Pokemon in general than either Electrode or Parasect.
On that note, Swoobat is never going to be Crobat, no matter how hard they want to make it Crobat, because nothing can beat Crobat as the "annoying early game Pokemon that is actually pretty good." Except Tentacool. Who is unquestionably the king of annoying early game Pokemon that are actually beasts.
Bouffalant is not even the same animal as Tauros. They might have similar shapes but Bouffalant also has a giant freakin' afro that makes it impossible to confuse with Tauros.
EDIT: I don't agree with the idea that Conkeldurr is a "copycat" either. It's clearly designed to fill the same niche in the Unova Dex as Machamp but is that so terrible? The biggest thing connecting the two Pokemon is that they're three-stage fighting types who evolve by trading but it's not like Condkeldurr also has 4 arms and shit. They play completely different too.
Even with Sawk and Throh their baseline is clearly meant to invoke Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee, but it ends there. It's not like you cynically get them from a fighting dojo the same way while the game beats you over the head with Red/Blue references.
EDIT: I don't agree with the idea that Conkeldurr is a "copycat" either. It's clearly designed to fill the same niche in the Unova Dex as Machamp but is that so terrible? The biggest thing connecting the two Pokemon is that they're three-stage fighting types who evolve by trading but it's not like Condkeldurr also has 4 arms and shit. They play completely different too.
Even with Sawk and Throh their baseline is clearly meant to invoke Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee, but it ends there. It's not like you cynically get them from a fighting dojo the same way while the game beats you over the head with Red/Blue references.
The 'it's not even based on the same animal' is a peculiar defense for me because it wouldn't have been the first time a Pokemon changed which animal it is based on upon evolving. Some of these were due to legends they were based on (Gyarados, Swanna), but some are seemingly random, like Gen V's pigeon/dove hybrid turning into a pheasant upon evolving.
I'm not saying Bouffalant is identical to Tauros and it obviously has a different competitive use. I'm saying that it's not hard to imagine Tauros evolving into Bouffalant. A darker color scheme (something that often happens between evolving), elongated horse, it's fur receding a bit and mane being turned into an afro. I'll give it three tails because these would simply disappear (again, not something unusual for Pokemon evolutions as there are cases were major features of a past form are just forgotten about), but otherwise nothing about it screams as something that would be unusual for an evolution. There are dozens of lines that change much more drastically between each form. Less so in Gen V which went for simpler evolutions, but it wouldn't look out of place among other cross-gen Gen IV evolutions.
I think Timburr line mostly replacing Machop line as >the< construction workers of Pokemon world is a somewhat major one.
I'm not saying Bouffalant is identical to Tauros and it obviously has a different competitive use. I'm saying that it's not hard to imagine Tauros evolving into Bouffalant. A darker color scheme (something that often happens between evolving), elongated horse, it's fur receding a bit and mane being turned into an afro. I'll give it three tails because these would simply disappear (again, not something unusual for Pokemon evolutions as there are cases were major features of a past form are just forgotten about), but otherwise nothing about it screams as something that would be unusual for an evolution. There are dozens of lines that change much more drastically between each form. Less so in Gen V which went for simpler evolutions, but it wouldn't look out of place among other cross-gen Gen IV evolutions.
I think Timburr line mostly replacing Machop line as >the< construction workers of Pokemon world is a somewhat major one.