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[The Artisan]

tl;dr at the bottom

I recently bought the prequel trilogy pack and rewatched First Class and Days of Future Past, and saw Apocalypse for the first time.

First Class after watching it again, I thought it was cool, I thought it was okay. James McAvoy is a good actor but I'm not totally sold on him being X. I think Christian Coulson would've been better in the role.

Also, JLaw is of course at the top of Hollywood right now but I don't think she was the best choice for the young Mystique. She's not as intimidating as the actress in the previous trilogy. But First Class overall was okay.

Days of Future past imo is the best movie out of the 3, and the best X-Men ensemble movie. Some of the stuff that happened in the movie was pretty goddamn ridiculous though; Magneto moving an entire stadium over to the White House; I get that this is a movie and it's all spectacle but it's hard to suspend belief in this fictional universe. How does a city recover from that...

And yeah, I was warned about this and Apocalypse sucked. There were numerous things about this; how they made mutants more historic, I don't know if this was planned or a retcon because First Class established that mutants began evolving because of nuclear warfare. What explanation is there for the emergence of En Sabah Nur?

The other thing about this movie is that it very strangely felt like there was a lack of urgency in all of the characters. Although the world is in peril, it seemed like they did not feel as concerned as they should have. It was weird to watch, like as a viewer, I'm more worried than the characters themselves.

Also I didn't like how they didn't establish Nightcrawler as Mystique's son. Like they didn't even hint at it. Then Havok's death (btw aren't the brothers reversed in the comics? Why'd they flip it around in the movie) seemed so inconsequential, like it did not hit Cyclops as hard as it should have. Once he got to the wreckage I expected him to go berserk and unleash his eye rage even more.

On top of that though while the Quicksilver scenes were cool, they were pretty overpowered. He didn't seem all that overpowered in DoFP, but he certainly seemed so in Apocalypse; I get that they wanted to have a nice moment of him saving everyone but the movie made it look like there's almost no difference in his superspeed versus Nightcrawler's teleporting powers; X even thought that's what he was when he met him in DoFP.

It had me thinking in that scene in DoFP where Quicksilver was watching the news, how long would it have taken him to get up from where he was sitting, and run his ass over to D.C to help the X-Men? Also, where was Scarlet Witch?

Off the top of my head the only other question I have is how did Stryker get a hold of Wolverine if the ending of DoFP established that he wasn't found by him?

I can't say I'm all that excited about the next Phoenix film; I became a Thrones fan in the middle of last year so it was cool to see Sansa Stark as Jean, but I feel like there's so much more they can do with X-Men lore right now rather than having to go straight to that.

tl;dr


DoFP > First Class > Apocalypse

What do you think?

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Havok looked awesome in Apocalypse.

 

[J_Viper]

Havok looked awesome in Apocalypse.

Lucas Till posts on GAF?

 

[Sulik2]

First Class > Apocalypse > DOFP

DOFP is vastly overrated. The power level of Magneto and Quickslver in the film completely breaks any suspension of disbelief that magneto or quicksilver could ever have actually been stopped from accomplishing anything they wanted. Magneto controlling electronics and QS not being at the final battle made 0 sense. Magneto or QS could have both stopped the entire sentinel future we saw on their own at that power level. Never seeing metal clawed wolverine taking down sentinels was a shame too.

I thought Apocalypse was a ton of fun and Apoco has the perfect amount of cheese to him.

First Class had the best villain and characterization of the bunch though so its my favorite. Its a shame Vaughn didn't get to make more.

 

[ZeroCDR]

Then Havok's death (btw aren't the brothers reversed in the comics? Why'd they flip it around in the movie) seemed so inconsequential, like it did not hit Cyclops as hard as it should have. Once he got to the wreckage I expected him to go berserk and unleash his eye rage even more.

Off the top of my head the only other question I have is how did Stryker get a hold of Wolverine if the ending of DoFP established that he wasn't found by him?

I swear I saw some BTS footage of Cyclops screaming into the sky without his shades on (no effects) after he looks into the mansion rubble. Wish that wasn't cut.

As for Wolverine, it's a bit confusing but I think it goes: Mystique rescues him disguised as Stryker -> Wolverine lives his life and ends up with Stryker anyway at some point. There's a throwaway line by Mystique about how she helps mutants but once she gets them out of heat, they're on their own.

 

[The Artisan]

Havok looked awesome in Apocalypse.

yes he did

First Class > Apocalypse > DOFP

DOFP is vastly overrated. The power level of Magneto and Quickslver in the film completely breaks any suspension of disbelief that magneto or quicksilver could ever have actually been stopped from accomplishing anything they wanted. Magneto controlling electronics and QS not being at the final battle made 0 sense. Magneto or QS could have both stopped the entire sentinel future we saw on their own at that power level. Never seeing metal clawed wolverine taking down sentinels was a shame too.

I thought Apocalypse was a ton of fun and Apoco has the perfect amount of cheese to him.

First Class had the best villain and characterization of the bunch though so its my favorite. Its a shame Vaughn didn't get to make more.

? i just watched all 3 films and DoFP isn't overrated. I implied in my post that Quicksilver couldve been at the final battle, but they made him even more overpowered in Apocalypse, why is that the better film?

 

[The Artisan]

I swear I saw some BTS footage of Cyclops screaming into the sky without his shades on (no effects) after he looks into the mansion rubble. Wish that wasn't cut.

THAT would've made that scene infinitely better (with effects of course). And wtf, taking that scene out kills the emotion the audience is supposed to feel connecting with Cyclops and makes the scene infinitely worse.

As for Wolverine, it's a bit confusing but I think it goes: Mystique rescues him disguised as Stryker -> Wolverine lives his life and ends up with Stryker anyway at some point. There's a throwaway line by Mystique about how she helps mutants but once she gets them out of heat, they're on their own.

That kinda makes Mystique rescuing Wolverine at the end pointless, though. They could have ended the scene just showing that Stryker found Wolverine, and then cut to something else. I dunno, like a child Jean watching the news and discovering her power somehow.

 

[ZeroCDR]

That kinda makes Mystique rescuing Wolverine at the end pointless, though. They could have ended the scene just showing that Stryker found Wolverine, and then cut to something else. I dunno, like a child Jean watching the news and discovering her power somehow.

Absolutely, I assume they had something else in mind for the sequel but had to alter it once Jackman wasn't going to be a major player.

 

[NealMcCauley]

Didn't like FC, was lukewarm on DOFP, and kinda enjoyed how silly Apocalypse was.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

First Class>DOFP-Apocalypse.

For me, with DOFP, while I really enjoyed on first watch, repeated viewings put it below First Class for me.

As much as I love Hugh Jackman in the role of Wolverine, a lot of the X-Men movies fall into the habit of being Wolverine & the X-Men movies and that got a little tiring for me.

Apocalypse could have worked but I'm kind of tired of Singer.

That's one reason why the X-Men movie I'm looking forward to the most is New Mutants.

All new cast, new director and apparently a horror vibe to it as well. I'm not really all that excited for the Dark Phoenix movie.

 

[Jigorath]

First Class was pretty good. DOFP was also pretty good.

Apocalypse was terrible.

Dark Phoenix is probably gonna suck.

 

[Duress]

Psylocke sucked ballls. I see Olivia Munn doing all this training and shit, which amounted to jack shit in the film.

 

[The Artisan]

Absolutely, I assume they had something else in mind for the sequel but had to alter it once Jackman wasn't going to be a major player.

when you say they had something else in mind, do you mean Wolverine was supposed to play a different role in Apocalypse?

First Class>DOFP-Apocalypse.

For me, with DOFP, while I really enjoyed on first watch, repeated viewings put it below First Class for me.

As much as I love Hugh Jackman in the role of Wolverine, a lot of the X-Men movies fall into the habit of being Wolverine & the X-Men movies and that got a little tiring for me.

Apocalypse could have worked but I'm kind of tired of Singer.

That's one reason why the X-Men movie I'm looking forward to the most is New Mutants.

All new cast, new director and apparently a horror vibe to it as well. I'm not really all that excited for the Dark Phoenix movie.

Honestly though, phase 1 of the MCU felt like Iron Man & his amazing friends; he's the only major player who had 2 films, and Av1 was centered around him a lot. His films didn't have the "Iron Man will return" message like Thor & GotG had, and Cap's first movie's post credit scene was literally just a teaser for Av1.

I agree with you about Singer though I don't see what's so great about his direction. Isn't he also a pedophile or something like that

First Class was pretty good. DOFP was also pretty good.

Apocalypse was terrible.

Dark Phoenix is probably gonna suck.

Yeah as much as I am an X Men fan, with the trend of these films I don't know if the next one will be good.

 

[Staccat0]

Has anyone who didn't previously know/care about the XMen ever enjoyed one of these things?

 

[The Artisan]

Has anyone who didn't previously know/care about the XMen ever enjoyed one of these things?

how would we know?

 

[Cheerilee]

And yeah, I was warned about this and Apocalypse sucked. There were numerous things about this; how they made mutants more historic, I don't know if this was planned or a retcon because First Class established that mutants began evolving because of nuclear warfare. What explanation is there for the emergence of En Sabah Nur?

As I recall from the comics, they pretty much say that Mutants (the X-Men kind) are the natural next stage in Humanity, and basically all of Humanity has the potential to give birth to Mutants.

Previous to nuclear testing, Mutants like En Sabah Nur were exceedingly rare. Exposing Humans to the low-level radioactive fallout from nuclear technology didn't create Mutants, it drastically accelerated the rate in which they appear.

 

[catashtrophe]

Has anyone who didn't previously know/care about the XMen ever enjoyed one of these things?

Eh?

Care to explain coz there's hundreds of movies I never knew the history or cared about the background to (source material might have come from cartoons, comics, books, real life or completely original) and still enjoyed.

 

[Toa TAK]

I agree. DOFP>First Class>Apocalypse, without a doubt.

Couldn't believe the drop in quality from the first two in this trilogy to Apocalypse. Now I'm can't muster up any excitement for the next film under Kinberg whatsoever.

 

[The Artisan]

As I recall from the comics, they pretty much say that Mutants (the X-Men kind) are the natural next stage in Humanity, and basically all of Humanity has the potential to give birth to Mutants.

Previous to nuclear testing, Mutants like En Sabah Nur were exceedingly rare. Exposing Humans to the low-level radioactive fallout from nuclear technology didn't create Mutants, it drastically accelerated the rate in which they appear.

okay so when En Sabah Nur says "you are all my children" even in the figurative sense, it's not true, right? All the 20/21st century mutants born are not a result of his genes being passed on?

 

[Cheerilee]

okay so when En Sabah Nur says "you are all my children" even in the figurative sense, it's not true, right? All the 20/21st century mutants born are not a result of his genes being passed on?

Yeah, as I understand it.

Mutant potential was sprinkled into Humanity eons ago by some space god (like Kurt Russell from Guardians of the Galaxy 2). That potential can activate randomly. Nukes increase the odds of activation.

If Apocalypse had kids, they would likely be pre-activated as Mutants, because the children of Mutants are frequently Mutants themselves.

Apocalypse was the first (known) Mutant to unlock. He wasn't the first Human to randomly evolve a new gene through mutation as we understand it, and then passed it on in stealth form until it spread to every corner of the world.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah, as I understand it.

Mutant potential was sprinkled into Humanity eons ago by some space god (like Kurt Russell from Guardians of the Galaxy 2). That potential can activate randomly. Nukes increase the odds of activation.

If Apocalypse had kids, they would likely be pre-activated as Mutants, because the children of Mutants are frequently Mutants themselves.

Apocalypse was the first (known) Mutant to unlock. He wasn't the first Human to randomly evolve a new gene through mutation as we understand it, and then passed it on in stealth form until it spread to every corner of the world.

I see, thanks for explaining.

We have yet to see however, if mutantkind in the Fox universe started from some advanced alien spraying the potential onto humans of the time, though. I think they're just going to keep it scientific with evolution. "god" shit always complicates things because what's a good to a nonbeliever

 

[gutter_trash]

Psylocke sucked ballls. I see Olivia Munn doing all this training and shit, which amounted to jack shit in the film.

Brian Singer is worst;
he teases characters and underuses them, gives them no lines, treats them like grunts or props

 

[The Artisan]

yeah the best director for the series is the one who did old man logan. i never got to see the wolverine

 

[Replicant]

The new mutants in DoFP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new mutants in Apocalypse.

 

[The Artisan]

which new mutants would those be

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I rewatched these all last year. Gotta admit, I enjoyed First Class way more than I did when it first came out. The characters aside from X and Magneto are pretty flat though, a problem that continues into the next films.

The Wolverine was another good one. There are some genuinely good moments in that film that eventually get overshadowed by the ridiculous aspects of the film. Fucking Silver Samurai...

 

[Replicant]

which new mutants would those be

Sunspot/Blink vs Psylocke and that Angel guy. I'll take Sunspot/Blink again if I have the choice.

 

[The Artisan]

Sunspot/Blink vs Psylocke and that Angel guy. I'll take Sunspot/Blink again if I have the choice.

i don't think some of those characters were very important in these movies but i'll give you Angel I didn't care about his characterization at all that in Apocalypse. They could've written in better horsemen

 

[clemenx]

I liked them, they're cool but they're not rewatch material at all.

Quicksilver scenes are the best.

 

[The Artisan]

I liked them, they're cool but they're not rewatch material at all.

Quicksilver scenes are the best.

his scene in DoFP was the best of that, but his scene in Apocalypse was overkill.

 

[reckless]

DoFP >>>> First Class >> Apocalypse

DoFP is a good movie not just a good comic book movie. First class is really overrated i guess coming after Origins and X3 people took what they could get.

Apocalypse is rightfully criticized for being terrible and somehow had really bad CGI in a lot of spots. It was especially disappointing since it was a followup to DoFP.

 

[Cheerilee]

i don't think some of those characters were very important in these movies but i'll give you Angel I didn't care about his characterization at all that in Apocalypse. They could've written in better horsemen

Angel was terrible in the movie because Singer ignored all the groundwork required to do certain things, but then tried to do them anyways.

In the comics, Angel was one of the five original X-Men. After a long run as a hero, he tragically lost his wings, which was a big deal. And then Apocalypse captured him and brainwashed him, and turned him into an Angel of Death, to serve as his Horseman of Death (all of Apocalypse's horsemen were legit Horsemen, with themes of War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death). This was a big deal, because Marvel was flipping the story of one of it's five original X-Men entirely upside down.

That story was completely wasted on the movie, which seemed to want to skip ahead to the "good part" where Angel turns into Archangel, and then wondered why nobody cared.

And then hey, while we're at it, let's just sweep Psylocke's story under the rug, by saying her story was the same thing as Archangel (in the comics, her crazy story not even close to being related to Apocalypse/Archangel's story), because who cares about story as long as you get to the point where you can have a sexy ninja wearing spandex with a purple laser sword?

Also, include Storm, because... uh... white hair? And let's bring along Magneto, because why not?

 

[ZeroCDR]

when you say they had something else in mind, do you mean Wolverine was supposed to play a different role in Apocalypse?

Possibly, I just think what is the point if he ends up in the Weapon X program again anyway?

I like to imagine he would have been with the X-Men at the start of the movie. I remember early buzz about him possibly playing one of the horsemen too, which maybe could have been an alternate way of him getting adamantium (Then again I have no idea what kind of metal Apocalypse gave Archangel).

 

[Twig and Berries]

I agree with the OP for the most part. The best way I'd describe Fox's handling of the X-men franchise is sloppy. It's just...so goddamn sloppy. There's no attention to detail or continuity and that drives me nuts.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Also I didn't like how they didn't establish Nightcrawler as Mystique's son. Like they didn't even hint at it.

I get where you're coming from, but they change so many things (including character relationships) in these movies that I find this an odd detail to get hung up on. Just out of curiosity, did it bother you in the original trilogy?

 

[The Artisan]

DoFP >>>> First Class >> Apocalypse

DoFP is a good movie not just a good comic book movie. First class is really overrated i guess coming after Origins and X3 people took what they could get.

Apocalypse is rightfully criticized for being terrible and somehow had really bad CGI in a lot of spots. It was especially disappointing since it was a followup to DoFP.

I agree with your ratings. However, I wouldn't say First Class is overrated. As ensemble X-Men movies go, it isn't the most critically acclaimed. DoFP still is. En Sabah Nur was indeed rightfully criticized, one good thing however I think the actor did an okay job.

Angel was terrible in the movie because Singer ignored all the groundwork required to do certain things, but then tried to do them anyways.

In the comics, Angel was one of the five original X-Men. After a long run as a hero, he tragically lost his wings, which was a big deal. And then Apocalypse captured him and brainwashed him, and turned him into an Angel of Death, to serve as his Horseman of Death (all of Apocalypse's horsemen were legit Horsemen, with themes of War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death). This was a big deal, because Marvel was flipping the story of one of it's five original X-Men entirely upside down.

That story was completely wasted on the movie, which seemed to want to skip ahead to the "good part" where Angel turns into Archangel, and then wondered why nobody cared.

And then hey, while we're at it, let's just sweep Psylocke's story under the rug, by saying her story was the same thing as Archangel (in the comics, her crazy story not even close to being related to Apocalypse/Archangel's story), because who cares about story as long as you get to the point where you can have a sexy ninja wearing spandex with a purple laser sword?

Also, include Storm, because... uh... white hair? And let's bring along Magneto, because why not?

Very informative post. Wow, how they have washed away such important character development for these arcs when adding them to the movie, butchering them till they are a pathetic shade of their comic book counterparts.

Jeez, thanks man you have ruined the movie for me 10 times worse now that I know more about the characters' origins lol

Possibly, I just think what is the point if he ends up in the Weapon X program again anyway?

I like to imagine he would have been with the X-Men at the start of the movie. I remember early buzz about him possibly playing one of the horsemen too, which maybe could have been an alternate way of him getting adamantium (Then again I have no idea what kind of metal Apocalypse gave Archangel).

Word, the movie would have been SO much better if Wolverine was indeed one of the horsemen. What an interesting take it would have been to make the protagonist of the franchise and have him be a key figure to the main villain. And I heard he was one of the horsemen in the comics? So it wouldve even been comic book accurate yeah?

I agree with the OP for the most part. The best way I'd describe Fox's handling of the X-men franchise is sloppy. It's just...so goddamn sloppy. There's no attention to detail or continuity and that drives me nuts.

From reading through this thread and talking to other people in it I've come to the conclusion that the Apocalypse storyline may not have even been the best script to go with as the followup to DoFP. There could have been a better story told if they wanted to focus the sequel on teenage X-Men.

I get where you're coming from, but they change so many things (including character relationships) in these movies that I find this an odd detail to get hung up on. Just out of curiosity, did it bother you in the original trilogy?

Yes it did. Albeit, I was a kid back when the OG X-Men movies were rolling out. And when I was a kid also, the X-Men cartoon is what got me into it. Same with Spiderman. I never read the comics.

 

[Shoeless]

One thing I did like about Apocalypse was, as usual, Fassbender as Magneto. That guy just keeps making Magneto harder and harder not to sympathize with when you actually give him a decent scene to stretch his acting chops.

In that sense, it's one of the reasons why I still hold First Class above Days of Future Past. The rapport between Magneto and Xavier is great, and it really does feel like you've got two very passionate, powerful guys who want the same goal, but are trying to achieve it in very different ways.

So I thought it was great when we had that scene of Magneto having his family taken away from him. Again. It could have fallen completely flat on its face since it was designed to be so emotionally manipulative, but it gave Fassbender a great scene, and then after that he just kind of became angry cape dude that's redeemed at the end.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

From reading through this thread and talking to other people in it I've come to the conclusion that the Apocalypse storyline may not have even been the best script to go with as the followup to DoFP. There could have been a better story told if they wanted to focus the sequel on teenage X-Men.

Couldn't agree more on this point. Throwing Apocalypse at this team so soon was a mistake. The movie should have focused more on the teenagers with a smaller villain. Like imagine if they could have finally done Angel right in this movie and then two or three more down the line you get Apocalypse. How much more impactful would the rise of Archangel have been if we had three movies to get to know the guy first? How cool would it have been if they could have teased an Age of Apocalypse flash forward or even had an Age of Apocalypse sequel? But no. All that's out the window now until the next reboot, and they're about to make the same mistake again with Dark Phoenix.

 

[ntinosaur]

Has anyone who didn't previously know/care about the XMen ever enjoyed one of these things?

Me ? My first X-Men thing to experience was First Class which i LOVED !

Personally my favorite is Days of Future Past, but i can understand some criticisms about it (like how they offed almost every FC character off-screen.....)

I also liked X-Men 2

Oh and Apocalypse was shite.

 

[The Artisan]

One thing I did like about Apocalypse was, as usual, Fassbender as Magneto. That guy just keeps making Magneto harder and harder not to sympathize with when you actually give him a decent scene to stretch his acting chops.

In that sense, it's one of the reasons why I still hold First Class above Days of Future Past. The rapport between Magneto and Xavier is great, and it really does feel like you've got two very passionate, powerful guys who want the same goal, but are trying to achieve it in very different ways.

So I thought it was great when we had that scene of Magneto having his family taken away from him. Again. It could have fallen completely flat on its face since it was designed to be so emotionally manipulative, but it gave Fassbender a great scene, and then after that he just kind of became angry cape dude that's redeemed at the end.

Yeah Fassbender is great as Magneto. I still don't think FC>DoFP, but Magneto's character arc was better in the former. The shit he did by the end of DoFP was just ridiculous. Moving the whole baseball stadium over into the White House, I can't suspend belief for that. It would take decades for people to not only reconstruct a new stadium but to get rid of the meters high concrete rubble surrounding the White House.

Couldn't agree more on this point. Throwing Apocalypse at this team so soon was a mistake. The movie should have focused more on the teenagers with a smaller villain. Like imagine if they could have finally done Angel right in this movie and then two or three more down the line you get Apocalypse. How much more impactful would the rise of Archangel have been if we had three movies to get to know the guy first? How cool would it have been if they could have teased an Age of Apocalypse flash forward or even had an Age of Apocalypse sequel? But no. All that's out the window now until the next reboot, and they're about to make the same mistake again with Dark Phoenix.

Definitely. I think honestly, Singer just wanted to top the epic, grandiose scale set by DoFP and other MCU films, as if that was the best way to match DoFP at the box office. But...sometimes character development is more important, especially when you're telling a new story. That was after all, part of a "soft" reboot, yeah?

Anyways like you suggested yeah they could've had a film with a smaller scale, which also focused on getting characters done right like Angel and the other iconic X-Men like Storm. There could've been a proper scene with Wolverine as well.

Me ? My first X-Men thing to experience was First Class which i LOVED !

Personally my favorite is Days of Future Past, but i can understand some criticisms about it (like how they offed almost every FC character off-screen.....)

I also liked X-Men 2

Oh and Apocalypse was shite.

Is shite a British thing or something? Are you British? Literally the first time I've heard that was watching it in the movie.