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[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The music grew on me as it didn't have as many familiar hits. After awhile, I started enjoying them and appreciating it. Vladivostok was one station I always avoided, but it ended up having some cool songs.

Vladivostok was one of the few stations I actually liked. Liberty Rock (I think it was called that) could be great, especially after adding in the Lost and Damned music, but I swear that station is programmed to play certain songs a lot more than others. There's about 3 or 4 songs that constantly get played on there whenever I turn it to that station, and others are barely, if ever, heard.

The talk stations were really weak I thought. Some good stuff, but nothing to match what was in the GTA3 games. Hopefully in the next game they'll ditch the TV channels and add some more talk radio or something. Also I need a fucking MP3 player or something R* to listen to music while on foot. Saints Row fucking had it, although Saints Row 2 didn't for some reason.

 

[Philthy]

Vice City was basically ripped off from, you said it, Scarface with some Miami Vice sprinkled in. It wasn't that original at all. I think they took a big risk with GTA IV and the characters as it clearly didn't work for some people - I just wasn't one of those people as I thought it told the best story of any of the previous GTA releases.

Well, being original is what hurts the game in my opinion. I want the games to feel familiar. I want to be placed somewhere that feels real, and not a made up drug world. Vice City replicated Florida in the 80s perfectly as far as the aesthetics. The drug cartel was going on back then and it was a pretty big deal with the war on drugs going on. It wasn't so much "ripping off" Scarface, it was recreating the time and period REALLY well for what it was.

I play all these other GTAs and they're fun games, have some good stories to tell. But they feel like games, in a game world. Artificial. Vice City never felt this way at all to me, maybe it was just because I was a kid in the 80s and they matched what I saw back then. You can Netflix documentaries on the Florida drug wars in the 80s and it IS Vice City.

 

[Marleyman]

I just really hope they have decent characters in the GTA.

Best characters in a GTA game for me. I loved Little Jacob, Packie McCreary, Brucie and his brother, Dwayne(I didn't really mind the prison stuff; just seemed like the right guy to

Spoiler

save

), I genuinely hated Dmitri Rascalov(that last name is a dead giveaway that he was going to be an asshole), Yusuf Amir was hilarious, Bulgarin was a nutjob, Gay Tony, and Johnny and Billy from TLAD come to mind.

 

[Marleyman]

The talk stations were really weak I thought. Some good stuff, but nothing to match what was in the GTA3 games. Hopefully in the next game they'll ditch the TV channels and add some more talk radio or something. Also I need a fucking MP3 player or something R* to listen to music while on foot. Saints Row fucking had it, although Saints Row 2 didn't for some reason.

No way; the TV channels were hilarious to me. I would sit there, roll a blunt or pack a bowl and watch Republican Space Rangers, Princess Robot Bubblegum, Rich and Famous show and get great laughs out of them.

 

[Angry Fork]

^^ yeah the GTA IV characters were good but hardly any were memorable for me, we need more tenpennys, big smokes, cjs and vercettis.

Real characters are better than caricatures when it comes to story. GTA4's characters felt real with a few eccentric ones here and there. In the older GTA's there were eccentric personalities almost everywhere, practically every boss you had was some weirdo or had some dark dirty secret. That stuff is fun but it doesn't fit in the serious real world tone they were trying to do.

I'd like them to go back to the crazy stuff but I don't think it's going to happen. I already know now going into GTA that you just have to expect a serious story with some fun stuff inbetween rather than the other way around. If you go into it like that then you're not really disappointed. There's always stuff like Just Cause 2/Saints Row to scratch the 'fun' itch, the only problem is those games have terrrrrible stories/characters which makes everything so boring as well. The older GTA's had great voice acting/production values when it came to story/characters as well as all the fun wild gameplay freedom which is why people love them so much more than GTA4 + the biker DLC.

Like most other people in this topic have said already, if this is going to be LA I do hope they keep the country side and allow us to do stuff like bungee jumping, flying a plane etc and jumping out etc. stuff like that. To this day one of my most memorable missions was from San Andreas when you're on that huge plane over the desert and you have to kill everyone on there, grab a parachute, and then jump out and it explodes behind you, and you're falling so fast down, it was just so fucking cool/awesome. That stuff was in Ballad of Gay Tony (which is why I loved it so much) but it needs to be in the next GTA as well.

I'm also really tired of the character controls. I hate that you push up on the analog stick and he doesn't move for like 1.5 seconds, same when you're trying to turn, it's so infuriating trying to turn/navigate in a linear staircase (which happened often in GTA4). I could do it but it was still like fighting with the controller and you had to 'time' your turning, not cool.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I did really like Little Jacob, and Packie too if a bit less than LJ.

 

[Marleyman]

Well, being original is what hurts the game in my opinion. I want the games to feel familiar. I want to be placed somewhere that feels real, and not a made up drug world. Vice City replicated Florida in the 80s perfectly as far as the aesthetics. The drug cartel was going on back then and it was a pretty big deal with the war on drugs going on. It wasn't so much "ripping off" Scarface, it was recreating the time and period REALLY well for what it was.

It definitely took elements from Scarface and Miami Vice..hell, even used similar characters and locales that they used.

I play all these other GTAs and they're fun games, have some good stories to tell. But they feel like games, in a game world. Artificial. Vice City never felt this way at all to me, maybe it was just because I was a kid in the 80s and they matched what I saw back then. You can Netflix documentaries on the Florida drug wars in the 80s and it IS Vice City.

I was also a kid of the 80's and know about the drug wars of the time. I rank the GTA's like this: GTA IV(w/DLC), Vice City, San Andreas and GTA 3. Maybe being that Nikko was Serbian(which I am) helped immerse me into the story more. Whatever it was I was hooked.

 

[Dachande]

Completely agree with the concept of the 'mature' GTA. GTA4 was the best in the series in a long time. I'll never understand everyone's love for San Andreas and it being packed full of arbitrary gimmicks and toys and mindlessness. That's what I'd call boring.

I wanted something tight and focused and that's exactly what GTA4 provided. Leave the boring, "zany" open world sandbox shite to Saints Row so I never have to deal with it, thanks.

 

[Marleyman]

Completely agree with the concept of the 'mature' GTA. GTA4 was the best in the series in a long time. I'll never understand everyone's love for San Andreas and it being packed full of arbitrary gimmicks and toys and mindlessness.

I wanted something tight and focused and that's exactly what GTA4 provided. Leave the terrible, "zany" open world sandbox bullshit to Saints Row so I never have to deal with it, thanks.

Yep; Saints Row has their niche they fill and GTA now has theirs. Saints Row had a horribly boring main character and stereotypical characters throughout. Dressing up in crazy outfits and kicking people in the nads is just not what I am looking for as a gamer. The sales numbers and reviews for GTA 4 more than likely means more of the same thing, which I am all for.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Yep; Saints Row has their niche they fill and GTA now has theirs. Saints Row had a horribly boring main character and stereotypical characters throughout. Dressing up in crazy outfits and kicking people in the nads is just not what I am looking for as a gamer. The sales numbers and reviews for GTA 4 more than likely means more of the same thing, which I am all for.

Saints Row 2's story was arguably better and more fun than GTAIV and that's coming from a huge GTAIV fan. Your main character was a badass, your allies were badasses, the rival factions were crazy over the top, and the situations you found yourself in escalated at a level PAST San Andreas. Yeah, they have their crazy niche, but let's not act like GTAIV is automatically better just because they didn't go that crazy.

Gay Tony got close, and I'd love it if they could stay right there in terms of crazy missions. All they need after that is property owning/business owning, more customization, more + better side activities, and they'll easily surpass San Andreas.

They really need to streamline and make access to stuff easier though. Having to constantly find parachutes, weapons, and vehicles really takes some of the fun away. Saints Row lays everything at your fingertips better than any open world game out there. You're free to play with your toys with no worries about losing them, have unlimited ammo after being rewarded, tons of weapons, lots of garages, etc., etc. GTA makes this stuff so tedious.

 

[Angry Fork]

I forgot to mention I really REALLY want the old cheat codes to come back (and not have to be inputted using the shitty phone). Imagine what it would look like with the crazy peds cheat on because of euphoria physics, it would be so awesome. I don't care if it breaks the game down I want to play with the physics so bad in GTA4 and they don't let you.

 

[Marleyman]

Saints Row 2's story was arguably better and more fun than GTAIV and that's coming from a huge GTAIV fan.

I don't understand how you are a huge GTA IV fan and think Saints Row 2's story is better. What are you a big fan of in GTA IV exactly? Your main character in SR2 has no name, can look like anything and has no backstory. Your friends name is Johnny Gat(I like him actually, but that name), and you basically do the same thing you did in the first; kill off 3 rival gangs.

Your main character was a badass, your allies were badasses, the rival factions were crazy over the top, and the situations you found yourself in escalated at a level PAST San Andreas. Yeah, they have their crazy niche, but let's not act like GTAIV is automatically better just because they didn't go that crazy.

I don't think GTA IV is better overall because of the story not being zany and crazy; I just related to it MUCH more then I did to SR2's.

They really need to streamline and make access to stuff easier though. Having to constantly find parachutes, weapons, and vehicles really takes some of the fun away. Saints Row lays everything at your fingertips better than any open world game out there. You're free to play with your toys with no worries about losing them, have unlimited ammo after being rewarded, tons of weapons, lots of garages, etc., etc. GTA makes this stuff so tedious.

GTA makes it realistic - that is a pain for some people who want instant access to what you mentioned. I didn't mind it at all and felt that earning things rather than them being given to me was the better option. That is just me.

 

[Marleyman]

I forgot to mention I really REALLY want the old cheat codes to come back (and not have to be inputted using the shitty phone). Imagine what it would look like with the crazy peds cheat on because of euphoria physics, it would be so awesome. I don't care if it breaks the game down I want to play with the physics so bad in GTA4 and they don't let you.

Yeah, I felt the same way. I wouldn't really mess with it through my first run but I would definitely do it in subsequent playthroughs and other random times.

 

[StealthGoblin]

GTA makes it realistic - that is a pain for some people who want instant access to what you mentioned. I didn't mind it at all and felt that earning things rather than them being given to me was the better option. That is just me.

For the record, I don't want instant access to all that crazy stuff. GTA:VC and GTA:SA kept a lot of the fun stuff locked away until later on. I liked it like that and it was a fantastic way to do it.

Its much better than barely anything being fun, having to go through tedious missions and then having barely anything worthwhile to spend your money on --> End.

The stuff leading up to the locked off content just wasn't as fun as previous GTA's. Rescuing Lance from the scrapyard, bumping off Diaz, the RC missions, Killing the guy on the golf range etc etc.

From GTA IV I took the following as positives: Physics engine and Three Leaf Clover.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I don't understand how you are a huge GTA IV fan and think Saints Row 2's story is better. What are you a big fan of in GTA IV exactly? Your main character in SR2 has no name, can look like anything and has no backstory. Your friends name is Johnny Gat(I like him actually, but that name), and you basically do the same thing you did in the first; kill off 3 rival gangs.

I don't need a backstory, or a name, all I know is my main character has one of 6(?) voices i can pick, says good one liners, sings along to the radio, dresses how I want him/her to dress, and does completely badass stuff through the entire game. He/she's a leader with a good sense of humor, and (almost) no conscience. That's enough for me. Of course Rockstar is free to do it differently, and I still loved GTAIV, but that doesn't make it automatically better than Saints Row for me. It's all about the execution.

I don't think GTA IV is better overall because of the story not being zany and crazy; I just related to it MUCH more then I did to SR2's.

I'm not looking to "relate" to anything in a GTA game except MAYBE the environment in GTAIV and that's only because I have lived in NYC all my life. Everything else is typical videogame murder spree stuff, and Niko is almost unlikeable and HARDER to relate to than your created character in Saints Row 2 at times. He does crap for no reason that your character in Saints Row 2 would just shoot the mission giver for asking.

GTA makes it realistic - that is a pain for some people who want instant access to what you mentioned. I didn't mind it at all and felt that earning things rather than them being given to me was the better option. That is just me.

I'm fine with earning stuff, Saints Row 2 doesn't just GIVE you anything either, but there comes a point where realism holds the game back in letting the player have some dumb fun. Having to constantly check up on my non-regenerating health in long missions without checkpoints, having to constantly buy ammo, having to constantly look for helicopters at some helicopter pad 3-5 minutes away from my safe house, having to constantly make sure I have a parachute, being scared to take my custom vehicles out to play because I might lose them, etc. etc. are all a pain. This is a GAME, I'm fine with certain aspects of it being "GAMEY."

 

[Marleyman]

I don't need a backstory, or a name, all I know is my main character has one of 6(?) voices i can pick, says good one liners, sings along to the radio, dresses how I want him/her to dress, and does completely badass stuff through the entire game. He/she's a leader with a good sense of humor, and (almost) no conscience. That's enough for me. Of course Rockstar is free to do it differently, and I still loved GTAIV, but that doesn't make it automatically better than Saints Row for me. It's all about the execution.

Fair enough. What makes you a "huge" fan of GTA IV though?

I'm not looking to "relate" to anything in a GTA game except MAYBE the environment in GTAIV and that's only because I have lived in NYC all my life. Everything else is typical videogame murder spree stuff, and Niko is almost unlikeable and HARDER to relate to than your created character in Saints Row 2 at times. He does crap for no reason that your character in Saints Row 2 would just shoot the mission giver for asking.

Nikko is brand new to the US though and realizes that working his way up from the bottom is just not what he wants to do. With that, he does things that are grimey and listens to others but knows that his background in the military should be beneficial to him as he makes his way around NYC. I related to his struggle much more then the Protagonist in SR2. For me, being immersed in the character is definitely an important part of playing a game such as GTA. All that being said, I still really enjoyed SR2 and will be playing the next one.

I'm fine with earning stuff, Saints Row 2 doesn't just GIVE you anything either, but there comes a point where realism holds the game back in letting the player have some dumb fun. Having to constantly check up on my non-regenerating health in long missions without checkpoints, having to constantly buy ammo, having to constantly look for helicopters at some helicopter pad 3-5 minutes away from my safe house, having to constantly make sure I have a parachute, being scared to take my custom vehicles out to play because I might lose them, etc. etc. are all a pain. This is a GAME, I'm fine with certain aspects of it being "GAMEY."

I can't stand the trend of regenerating health in games that just don't make sense to have it in. I was pleased to know that I had to explore the city to look for health and know there were repercussions(hospital trip, lose 10% of your money) to running around like a maniac. Sure, you could still run around like a nut in GTAIV if you wanted to but to follow the story you were penalized for doing so. SR2 didn't even have regen health as you needed to buy things to heal up. I saw that they are doing away with blunts, 40's and Freckle Bitch's food in SR3 in favor of regen health - I hate that decision.

 

[Hey You]

I agree with the people who don't want the next GTA to be serious and realistic. They did that in IV.

 

[Marleyman]

I agree with the people who don't want the next GTA to be serious and realistic. They did that in IV.

They were universally praised and sold assloads of copies of GTA IV - why would they change? Saints Row has that market cornered now anyway. Rockstar can implement bits of it, like they did in Ballad of Gay Tony.

 

[poppabk]

I think they can incorporate more sandbox elements without altering the tone of the game. You don't have to have jetpack missions to have a jetpack in the game. Having things to buy and open ended goals separate from the mission structure doesn't have to mean making things stupid. The Godfather for example was played completely straight but still gave you things to buy and the goal of ruling all of New York.
I think they went with the social aspects in GTA IV to round out the game and it just didn't work as well.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

The rag dolls are crappy just like the rag dolls are crappy in Counterstrike.

They don't move like humans. They fall like rag dolls.

1) I wouldn't even consider them ragdolls.. They don't behave as such. They have skeletal structures and attempt to correct their balance etc when pushed. They don't "rag out" like in counterstrike.
2) no other gta games have had "ragdolls" so I'm guessing you must be talking about gta iv and I can't diasagree with you more. What game are you comparing it to? As another poster said, gta has the most advanced "ragdoll" physics system of any game. (well aside from rdr, but that's the same tech only updated)

It's only going to get better with time and it totally blew me away when gta iv came out. I don't understand your complaining.

 

[Dabanton]

I've seen this levelled at the game since just after release but how is GTA:IV "serious and realistic." It's just as fun and silly as it always was.

Makes me think that people haven't actually played any of the previous games as the tones are exactly the same.

It's still a silly game at heart. The world around Niko is still amped to the hilt with parody and innuendo, are people calling it serious because you can't put on a silly jetpack?

 

[SolidSnakex]

They were universally praised and sold assloads of copies of GTA IV - why would they change? Saints Row has that market cornered now anyway. Rockstar can implement bits of it, like they did in Ballad of Gay Tony.

Saints Row has the market cornered? In what universe? Those games don't sell anywhere near as well as GTA. Also the best selling game in GTA's franchise is San Andreas. That's not something that Rockstar should ignore.

 

[Hey You]

Saints Row has the market cornered? In what universe? Those games don't sell anywhere near as well as GTA. Also the best selling game in GTA's franchise is San Andreas. That's not something that Rockstar should ignore.

Bingo.

 

[Striker]

Saints Row has the market cornered? In what universe? Those games don't sell anywhere near as well as GTA. Also the best selling game in GTA's franchise is San Andreas. That's not something that Rockstar should ignore.

Of course they'll ignore it. Like they'll ignore putting in decent side quests and activities and leave you with bullshit single-player encounters where you're always chasing guys on bikes or in cars in small streets or alleyways.

Saints Row has taken that throne Rockstar left for the old GTA after they took the other direction of open world "freedom".

 

[Buckethead]

You know the more I think about this, the more i realize that the lack of a Vegas setting in the GTA series is a pretty surprising omission. It's got everything they love.

Did you not play San Andreas? That's what Las Venturas was.

This was still the best GTA ever by a wide margin.

I disagree, I think that Vice City had overall the best soundtrack, vibe, and coherence of any of the GTAs, but the game itself had a lot of flaws and there wasn't much replay value.

GTA 3 will always have a sweet spot to me because I feel like it's the series' best story due to it's straightforward nature. And it is the game that popped everyone's cherry, so natually people are going to see it through rose colored glasses.

But San Andreas is the best GTA hands down, IMO. You simply can't ignore the absolute ridiculous scope.

 

[JaseC]

Isn't Max Payne 3 set in a Rio like place, or Rio itself?

Edit: Its Sao Paulo.

What's interesting is that we've heard nor seen nothing of MP3 since that reveal. One can only hope that Rockstar realised their mistake and went back to the noir-themed drawing board...

 

[Angry Fork]

I actually played San Andreas recently for the first time in years and even though the missions still hold up, the level of detail in the world pales in comparison so much to GTA4. (The scope of San Andreas is still great especially the countryside/desert)

I felt a little disappointed/sad that my once favorite game feels so empty and lifeless compared to GTA4. I went straight to Las Vegas and there were barely any pedestrians, the draw distance was terrible, very limited amount of cars on the road etc. this is probably better on PC version but on PS2 it was pretty bad. The Las Vegas strip felt more like I was in a toy replica of Las Vegas rather than a real living breathing one.

The insane amounts of little things in GTA4 really add up. The things on the sidewalks/corners, the papers floating around, the stuff in back alleys, dumpsters etc. you never really notice how much this adds until you compare it to what used to be.

What's interesting is that we've heard nor seen nothing of MP3 since that reveal. One can only hope that Rockstar realised their mistake and went back to the noir-themed drawing board...

100% THIIIS. I really REALLY hope so. Max Payne 1/2 are in my top 5 of all time and if 3 is an 'evolved' cover shooter in daytime brazil i'll rage.

 

[hiryu]

GTA IV was the first GTA I ever finished. I hope the new one follows a similar path but I would like a more sympathetic main character with some actual choices that matter.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Fair enough. What makes you a "huge" fan of GTA IV though?

The detail, the beauty, the physics, some of the characters are really well done, the authenticity of races and cultures, the authenticity of the city, the day/night cycle was the best at the time of release, the atmosphere, the voice acting. I loved what they built for vanilla GTAIV. The mechanics on the other hand were kind of tedious, and often cumbersome. Thankfully, they fixed A LOT of those in the Episodes, and Red Dead Redemption which shows they KNOW that they were not great in the beginning.

Nikko is brand new to the US though and realizes that working his way up from the bottom is just not what he wants to do. With that, he does things that are grimey and listens to others but knows that his background in the military should be beneficial to him as he makes his way around NYC. I related to his struggle much more then the Protagonist in SR2. For me, being immersed in the character is definitely an important part of playing a game such as GTA. All that being said, I still really enjoyed SR2 and will be playing the next one.

No I get it completely, I just don't agree with the way they went about it. Niko started feeling like an errand boy that forgot his true purpose. I love how they tied all of the stories back to the diamonds with the Episodes, but there was a better way of doing that than having Niko take every job thrown at him. It works much better in Red Dead Redemption simply because of the setting and John Marston's nature, plus the fact that he was constantly looking for his end goal even if his current missions had nothing to do with them.

Keep in mind, these are just thoughts on vanilla GTAIV. The Episodes were much better in terms of not making the main character seem like a "OK, I'll do everything" type of guy.

I can't stand the trend of regenerating health in games that just don't make sense to have it in. I was pleased to know that I had to explore the city to look for health and know there were repercussions(hospital trip, lose 10% of your money) to running around like a maniac. Sure, you could still run around like a nut in GTAIV if you wanted to but to follow the story you were penalized for doing so. SR2 didn't even have regen health as you needed to buy things to heal up. I saw that they are doing away with blunts, 40's and Freckle Bitch's food in SR3 in favor of regen health - I hate that decision.

Saints Row 2 DID have regenerating health, and that was one of my MAJOR likes versus GTAIV. Having to find health packs, which MAKE JUST AS LITTLE SENSE AS REGENERATING HEALTH DOES, after every single mission, as well as doing the same thing for vests was BORING and TEDIOUS. There's no question about why Red Dead Redemption had regenerating health instead of the GTA health system. It's not a good fit for the open world action genre at ALL. I don't want to die due to falling off a 10 foot ledge because the Euphoria physics engine decided I should stumble from getting pushed, or because I get hit by a car and I only had a sliver of health.

Plus, repercussions for acting like a maniac are increasing levels of police, and FBI on your ass, as well as Tanks which, surprise, weren't in vanilla GTAIV either.

 

[Dabanton]

I actually played San Andreas recently for the first time in years and even though the missions still hold up, the level of detail in the world pales in comparison so much to GTA4. (The scope of San Andreas is still great especially the countryside/desert)

I felt a little disappointed/sad that my once favorite game feels so empty and lifeless compared to GTA4. I went straight to Las Vegas and there were barely any pedestrians, the draw distance was terrible, very limited amount of cars on the road etc. this is probably better on PC version but on PS2 it was pretty bad. The Las Vegas strip felt more like I was in a toy replica of Las Vegas rather than a real living breathing one.

The insane amounts of little things in GTA4 really add up. The things on the sidewalks/corners, the papers floating around, the stuff in back alleys, dumpsters etc. you never really notice how much this adds until you compare it to what used to be.

I'm playing Ballad Of Gay Tony right now and your right the detail is amazing the general feel of the streets is amazing.

The little incidental details are fantastic. Sometimes if you play until early morning in the game you can see the rubbish carts driving round the streets before the day starts proper.

I've just had a car chase with 8 police cars, where they blew out one of my tires i still escaped by driving smartly and avoiding them and laying down some sticky bombs and detonating them. I then shook them off,parked my wrecked car and went for a walk

 

[Marleyman]

Saints Row has the market cornered? In what universe? Those games don't sell anywhere near as well as GTA. Also the best selling game in GTA's franchise is San Andreas. That's not something that Rockstar should ignore.

Market cornered as far as outlandish sandbox nonsense goes.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Market cornered as far as outlandish sandbox nonsense goes.

If Rockstar announced that the next GTA would be taking the same direction as the last gen GTA's people would forget that Saints Row even existed. Saints Row is just what people go to to get their fix for that stuff because Rockstar abandoned the sense of freedom that those games offered.

 

[Marleyman]

The detail, the beauty, the physics, some of the characters are really well done, the authenticity of races and cultures, the authenticity of the city, the day/night cycle was the best at the time of release, the atmosphere, the voice acting. I loved what they built for vanilla GTAIV. The mechanics on the other hand were kind of tedious, and often cumbersome. Thankfully, they fixed A LOT of those in the Episodes, and Red Dead Redemption which shows they KNOW that they were not great in the beginning.

I thought the mechanics were cumbersome; someone mentioned simple things like walking down the stairs earlier. Things like that have to be cleaned up and probably will be.

No I get it completely, I just don't agree with the way they went about it. Niko started feeling like an errand boy that forgot his true purpose.

If you remember, Niko wanted to get back at his former army unit member, Cravic I believe, for being a traitor. He did all of those errands for people to help his cousin and more importantly, find Cravic.

Saints Row 2 DID have regenerating health, and that was one of my MAJOR likes versus GTAIV. Having to find health packs, which MAKE JUST AS LITTLE SENSE AS REGENERATING HEALTH DOES, after every single mission, as well as doing the same thing for vests was BORING and TEDIOUS. There's no question about why Red Dead Redemption had regenerating health instead of the GTA health system. It's not a good fit for the open world action genre at ALL. I don't want to die due to falling off a 10 foot ledge because the Euphoria physics engine decided I should stumble from getting pushed, or because I get hit by a car and I only had a sliver of health.

SR 2 did? It has been awhile. I thought you had the health items on the d-pad in SR2 for that reason. We will have to agree that we both want different things from the genre, as I think the realistic nature of having to find health is the best way to go.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

If Rockstar announced that the next GTA would be taking the same direction as the last gen GTA's people would forget that Saints Row even existed. Saints Row is just what people go to to get their fix for that stuff because Rockstar abandoned the sense of freedom that those games offered.

Wrong.

Saints Row has levels of customization that GTA has never even attempted, plus they do FULL campaign co-op where the visiting player can do EVERYTHING except buying property. Some of you guys are getting out of hand with this GTA > Saints Row argument now. Give credit where credit's due, Volition has streamlined a lot of the tedious, archaic mechanics that Rockstar held on to in GTAIV, and are doing their own thing.

 

[Marleyman]

If Rockstar announced that the next GTA would be taking the same direction as the last gen GTA's people would forget that Saints Row even existed. Saints Row is just what people go to to get their fix for that stuff because Rockstar abandoned the sense of freedom that those games offered.

Personally, I wouldn't be excited if they went in that direction. I think SR has built up a fanbase that wouldn't not buy the next one, regardless of what direction GTA goes in. Volition definitely filled the hole that GTA created, no question about it.

 

[Marleyman]

I'm playing Ballad Of Gay Tony right now and your right the detail is amazing the general feel of the streets is amazing.

The little incidental details are fantastic. Sometimes if you play until early morning in the game you can see the rubbish carts driving round the streets before the day starts proper.

I've just had a car chase with 8 police cars, where they blew out one of my tires i still escaped by driving smartly and avoiding them and laying down some sticky bombs and detonating them. I then shook them off,parked my wrecked car and went for a walk

Damn, just that description has me thinking about popping it in after work.

 

[JaseC]

Wrong.

Saints Row has levels of customization that GTA has never even attempted, plus they do FULL campaign co-op where the visiting player can do EVERYTHING except buying property. Some of you guy are getting out of hand with this GTA > Saints Row argument now. Give credit where credit's due, Volition has streamlined a lot of the tedious, archaic mechanics that Rockstar held on to in GTAIV, and are doing their own thing.

In what way is he "wrong"? GTA is infinitely more popular than SR, and for the most part his assertion of SR filling the niche GTA doesn't is right on the mark.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

If you remember, Niko wanted to get back at his former army unit member, Cravic I believe, for being a traitor. He did all of those errands for people to help his cousin and more importantly, find Cravic.

OK, but there are much better ways of keep the overarching focus on that while also going from person to person to do missions. Red Dead handled it way better, and people STILL had issues with that game for the same problem. They haven't nailed the perfect formula yet.

SR 2 did? It has been awhile. I thought you had the health items on the d-pad in SR2 for that reason. We will have to agree that we both want different things from the genre, as I think the realistic nature of having to find health is the best way to go.

Yeah SR2 did. They had blunts, burgers and shakes to eat, and 40 oz to drink, but those were just for fun. You got rewarded with better health regeneration from the side missions.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

In what way is he "wrong"? GTA is infinitely more popular than SR, and for the most part his assertion of SR filling the niche GTA doesn't is right on the mark.

People would not "forget that Saints Row existed" if GTA went crazy again, that's going too far. Other franchises existed and did well for themselves when GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas were running the show on the PS2, and Saints Row can hold its own today.

EDIT: Sorry for the DP.

(meaning double post)

 

[JaseC]

People would not "forget that Saints Row existed" if GTA went crazy again, that's going too far. Other franchises existed and did well for themselves when GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas were running the show on the PS2, and Saints Row can hold its own today.

EDIT: Sorry for the DP.

(meaning double post)

Perhaps SSX was a little too aggressive with his assessment of the situation, but you can't deny SR plays second fiddle to GTA.

Edit: Fixed. Oops.

 

[Marleyman]

OK, but there are much better ways of keep the overarching focus on that while also going from person to person to do missions. Red Dead handled it way better, and people STILL had issues with that game for the same problem. They haven't nailed the perfect formula yet.

I thought they did it very well. Red Dead, to me at least, lost itself when it went to Mexico. I still think GTA is a better game because I cared more about the story and there wasn't a "Mexico" portion that made me lose focus.

Yeah SR2 did. They had blunts, burgers and shakes to eat, and 40 oz to drink, but those were just for fun. You got rewarded with better health regeneration from the side missions.

They restored health, I thought.

 

[Buckethead]

I actually played San Andreas recently for the first time in years and even though the missions still hold up, the level of detail in the world pales in comparison so much to GTA4.

Well obviously, you're playing a Xbox360 game vs. playing a PS2 game.

In many ways, these comments prove my point. You get some cool flourishes, visual fidelity, and little details, but that's what you get - artifice.

The buildings are certainly beautiful, but you can't go inside 98% of them. The pedestrians are more interesting and frequent than ever, but there's still too few especially given the overpopulated streets of the Big Apple nor can you interact with any of them in a meaningful way.
You have next gen graphics but last gen design. You've added a physics system but lost the arcadey feel of the franchise. Etc., etc.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I thought they did it very well. Red Dead, to me at least, lost itself when it went to Mexico. I still think GTA is a better game because I cared more about the story and there wasn't a "Mexico" portion that made me lose focus.

Differences of opinion then. I thought they made Marston seem way more focused on the task at hand than Niko was, even on missions that might not had much push towards Marston's personal journey. Niko barely even argued with some of these crazy characters he was doing stuff for like Marston did.

And the Mexico section of RDR worked for me because of the setting. Sure you wanted to reach your goal, but they were attempting to make a massive adventure spanning a huge chunk of land. You need that "Mexico" in the middle, or there's no sense of "Wow, that was a journey" when you finally reach the end.

They restored health, I thought.

They DID restore health, but you weren't out of luck if you didn't happen to have any on you because your health would regenerate anyway.

Another thing health regen allows for is more intricate/BIG missions. There were so many "perfect" walkthroughs of Three Leaf Clover in GTAIV because of the amount of damage you would receive and not get any health back. Combined with the sluggish movement, and no checkpoints, even what is probably the most memorable mission in GTAIV is hampered by these old mechanics.

 

[Marleyman]

Differences of opinion then. I thought they made Marston seem way more focused on the task at hand than Niko was, even on missions that might not had much push towards Marston's personal journey. Niko barely even argued with some of these crazy characters he was doing stuff for like Marston did.

Niko was conflicted but his greater mission was always more important, so he shut his mouth and did what he needed to do to get information on Cravic. Everything Nikko did was for a reason IMO. He does missions for Faustin and Rascalov but realizes they are nuts. Rascalov sells out Niko to Bulgarin, who was his former employer in Eastern Europe. Niko and Roman's place is firebombed, so he takes jobs with Playboy X, Manny and Elizabeta. There is much more to it but you could just wiki it. Point being, he had solid reasons IMO behind everything he did in GTA IV.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Personally, I wouldn't be excited if they went in that direction.

They're going to piss people off any way. They'll piss off some GTA4 fans if they choose to go in the direction of the games from last gen. They'll piss off some of those fans of the last gen style if they choose to continue in 4's direction. I personally think that they're going to end up going in the direction of GTA4, but I hope i'm wrong.

People would not "forget that Saints Row existed" if GTA went crazy again, that's goign too far. Other franchises existed, and did well for themselves when GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas were running the show on the PS2, and Saints Row can hold its own today.

Obviously I don't mean that everyone would forget about SR, i'm just saying that I believe that it would lose a lot of interest because people would just wait for GTA. You bring up those open world games from last gen but how many of them even exist now?

 

[Marleyman]

They're going to piss people off any way. They'll piss off some GTA4 fans if they choose to go in the direction of the games from last gen. They'll piss off some of those fans of the last gen style if they choose to continue in 4's direction. I personally think that they're going to end up going in the direction of GTA4, but I hope i'm wrong.

True, but it is tough to argue with the review scores and sales they got from GTA 4 and the DLC. This is bit OT, but people usually clamor for the older version of something, be it a band's older albums, the first or second movie in a series, and same with videogames. Not all the time but it seems nostalgia always wins out. I enjoyed San Andreas and still would I believe, I just don't see it as the pinnacle of the series that most on here do.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Obviously I don't mean that everyone would forget about SR, i'm just saying that I believe that it would lose a lot of interest because people would just wait for GTA. You bring up those open world games from last gen but how many of them even exist now?

And I'm just saying I don't think as many would lose interest as you do. The way Rockstar is going, even if they go wacky again with GTAV, they aren't going to even come close to the amount of customization Saints Row 3 will offer, and to a lot of people that's half the selling point right there. Add up the insane factions, and the over the top missions, and that's a recipe I don't think Rockstar is willing to dip their foot into. The most "over the top" we'll see from Rockstar going forward is at the level Gay Tony was on, and even if it's a game full of THAT, Saints Row 3 will still have an audience, and a purpose.

In the end, I just want them to remove all the jank that was present in GTAIV, streamline ammo collection, vehicle storage/recovery, health regen (or lack thereof), and bring the FUN back into the series. I'm cool with certain aspects being real, but there's no reason they can't poke their heads back into the window of crazy once in a while.

 

[enzo_gt]

Everytime I read complaints about GTA IV it sounds like someone is either 12 or they desperately want a jetpack and dildos focused game and can't appreciate it for what it has evolved to. GTA IV was the culmination of technology, resources and gameplay refined to a T. As much as I love San Andreas, GTA IV is pretty much superior in every aspect except random bugs and glitches fucking with your game and making you laugh. San Andreas, the locale, has a bit more charm than some of the locales in GTA IV, but the gameplay and missions pale in comparison.

I think it's because as I grew up with GTA I saw the progression in actual game design rather than the sheer amount of bullshit people can do you could wrap into a game. I found to appreciate decision making, more three dimensional characters (still not completely there yet) and production values. A lot of stuff, cutscenes, environments, subtle humor (though SA radio > GTA IV radio), story, driving mechanics, gunplay, movement, animations, all the stuff you expect to be better IS better in the sequel.. Making it a better game. Nostalgias a bitch, but I don't want to go back to those days of self-parody.

Doesn't bother me if they do San Andreas again, just it would be smarter to do a new city instead of the vocal minority praying for rehashes because that's all they have ever know. Don't even get me started on the "GTA should stay in the US because it's about America" crock of bullshit. That's just plain ignorance of possibilities.

San Andreas sold more... In a different generation, over a longer timeframe, and a different state of the market. It's like comparing an apple grown on the north pole to one in South America. Very relevant. As if arbitrary numbers that aren't correlative at all are needed to tell Rockstar people liked San Andreas.

 

[Marleyman]

Don't even get me started on the "GTA should stay in the US because it's about America" crock of bullshit. That's just plain ignorance of possibilities

I agree with a bunch of what you had to say, however I think Dan Houser even said that getting away from the Westernization style GTA game is not something himself and his people would be comfortable with. I remember reading the interview; will have to find it.

 

[Buckethead]

Everytime I read complaints about GTA IV it sounds like someone is either 12 or they desperately want a jetpack and dildos focused game and can't appreciate it for what it has evolved to.

And every time I read someone making massive assumptions I call them a douchebag.

Rockstar themselves basically said "because it's about America", so don't blame people for repeating it.

Also no one I've seen isn't appreciating "the evolution". I'm fine with evolution, but there's such a thing as "one step forward, three steps back", poorly written unintelligible characters, and making decisions that remove fun from the game.