Well that depends on your definition of the term "Indie."
Anywho, CBOAT has graced us, etc etc. 3GB RAM seems...enough?
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[Rumor] Inside Gaming: Lower-priced, Kinect-less Xbox One coming summer 2014
- Thread starter salromano
- Start date
Well that depends on your definition of the term "Indie."
Anywho, CBOAT has graced us, etc etc. 3GB RAM seems...enough?
Aquamarine
Member
You asked why this was "bad news." Arbitrary memory restrictions for indies is unequivocally "bad news," even if its real-world impact won't be that devastating.
Dragon1893
Member
Another 180 if true, panic mode in full effect.
Delusibeta
Banned
Judging from their past efforts, it's probably safe to assume the answer to this will be "zero". Self-publishing to the main store or bust.
If they are managing that on the 360's tiny 512mb, having 3GB to play with will seem like heaven. Sure they have 8 to play with but developers need to get more efficient with coding, not lazier. MS have changed their policies over the years, especially when it game to size of the downloads so maybe if Indies show they need the extra RAM, it will get unlocked.
DoritoPope
Banned
Why would they release a Kinect-less SKU when it's supposedly needed for the console?
Consumer Demand/Outrage.
If it gets the system cheaper, then fair enough but time will see to that as the machine gets cheaper to manufacture as it ages.
Bluekaveli
Member
Cboat made this thread awesome
Aquamarine
Member
Despite the fact that CBOAT said this was nonsense, a Kinect-less SKU could remove the "PS4 is cheaper" psychological price barrier for the average consumer.
Or they could simply reverse their Kinect-mandatory policies and reorient the XBONE akin to the late-gen 360.
Again, getting "more efficient with coding" is not a fucking switch you can just flip if needed.
They could manage creating a game on 2MB of RAM, no problem. You just downscale your project and your ambitions to get there.
And yes, all the developers who would use and enjoy 7+ gigs of RAM for their projects are all "lazy". Good call bro.
netoambrosio
Banned
Just lower the price to 399 but keep the Kinect in and eat the 100 to be competitive with Sony. Thanks MS
Triggerhappytel
Member
Okay, I've seen CBoaT's post. If MS do go through with this months after launch day they would royally fuck over early adopters. There's nothing stopping them deactivating the Kinect requirement now and taking it out of the bundles they'll be shipping to stores in a few months. This will probably be a good decision in the long run, but in the short term it will piss off everyone who buys the fucking console.
If they can show off why it needs all that RAM, then good on them. If they churn out some badly optimized game that looks like it could pass as a Wii Port, well something is wrong.
I guess we sit back and see what the launch titles and beyond are like. As for Indie stuff, need to see more of them before calling anything out.
LukasTaves
Member
Where I said that all indies are now 2D sidescrollers? My point is that you'd have to be delusional if you expect indie games to have the manpower to create so many assets that can't possibly fit very well in 3GB of ram. Specially with features like tiled resources available right there on the api for them to use.
The competition requires/allows you to:
- Acquire or ask for a free devkit.
- You are limited to where the devkits are available... For instance, I live in Brazil... Can I ask for a free devkit to develop my game?
- Can only debug code on said devkit, which can be an issue for more than one person trying to test the game.
- Since it's using the devkit it allows you to use everything the hardware has to offer, which is cool.
Am I'm missing something? I can see some advantages (and disadvantages too) in that model, but not that makes self publishing on the store ridiculous.
3GB is understandable once you know how the system works. Xbone has a VM that runs under the windows kernel, and can run WinRT too. WinRT is the platform from which Ms can make apps cross compatible between devices, and how it allows developers to use native languages but still being somewhat sandboxed.
But I thought the early adopters love Kinect?
According to them it provides endless possibilities, zero privacy concerns and everything gamers ever wanted. Why would they be pissed if they got what they wanted?
Diablo Rosso
Member
Thread title needs to be updated with 'CBOAT: fckn lool'. Also his other info is thread worthy on its own.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Haven't a lot of design decisions been made based on kinect? Hardware wise, UI and OS wise. Wouldn't they be pretty much be throwing all their work in the bin?
Crimson_Gold
Member
Pretty much, but at this point, anything is possible. Outside of CBoat saying this isn't happening.
Black Republican
Member
DRM was easier to reverse, this however? nah dont buy it at all
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Cboat has already killed this rumor, but man, it really wouldn't surprise me, microsoft has been in full backtracking mode since e3.
Hmm yeah I know . I hate optimizations unless its optimizing for just the kicks of it . (basically dont like it when im coding software which needs to be finished soon like it when im optimizing in algorithms etc for research) I agree with what you said in your other post about ram beig very important for mechanics and non graphics processing ... Anyhoo yeah still speculation. Although from what ppl say in the forums cboat is pretty accurate ....
LukasTaves
Member
I can see if you go on the route: Oh, 3GB isn't all the memory the system has, so it's bad news, but having 3GB available of ram isn't a bad news at all. It's more than the majority of the platforms that are receiving most of the indie supports have. It's already more than entire game can take on some platforms too.
I would say the crappy flash roms most of portable devices uses for storage are a much bigger hindrance for indie developers than memory by a large margin.
Latvian Hitman
Member
I could see them caving and doing this next summer if sales are lagging, but the idea that this is already on the roadmap doesn't hold water with me. If there were any current concrete plans to do this, they would involve launch, not Summer 2014.
While I'm behind the idea of getting optimized code instead of a bloated piece of software, the limit on access to RAM seems like way too much of a way to bait indies into having MS publish instead of letting them self-publish. MS is giving them the option to publish themselves, but then dangles the other 2GB in from of the devs as an incentive to let MS handle the publishing for them. If it's there, MS should allow for indies full access to the system, not just part of it.
Then again, it could all be based around the Win8 stuff and current limits there for those who publish apps for the OS currently.
LukasTaves
Member
They said before that they are not going to have many stores inside the console, and that would all be a single store now.
Plus, they are currently pushing the app store even harder that they are pushing the desktop. Obviously the app store is way way way behind in terms of developer support, but Ms does seem to invest part of their future on the app store.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
I still think all MS has to do is drop the price to 299 with a 2 year Live subscription. Do it like TMobile or something like that.
People see 299, and don't mind adding another monthly payment to something. 299 will make X1 consoles fly.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Seriously, MS has no idea what they are doing this Gen. It would look like they are desperate for sales if they did that. It wouldnt look like an option...
Yes it does seem a little strange to dangle that extra RAM carrot for certain developers. I do wonder if they are doing that on purpose to split between actual Indie devs who are making indie titles (Like a few people making a game) and the much bigger teams who are making bigger budget games but are still not signed up with EA/Activision etc.
Seems like their idea is if you need that extra RAM, then you probably have a bigger game and you need to have a publisher.
Still, MS being slow to talk about this is pretty annoying.
sixteen-bit
Member
Smart move if true. Smarter move is having it available at launch.
LukasTaves
Member
The 3/5GB isn't there to bully indie developers, it's a internal political solution.
The "windows team" wanted xbone being able to run W8 apps and games, because that's their big push now, the xbox team wanted to have a system which allow game developers to utilize everything the system has to offer without any sandbox.
The hyper-V OS plus different VMs each with their separated memory is how they made both parties happy.
They've been slow to talk about anything really. It's getting more and more concerning to me at this point.
It's almost like they know what they want to say, but don't want to commit to anything at all for fear of a backlash and then more repositioning like with the DRM debacle.
I don't think they intent to bully indies with the 3/5 split at all, but it does show that if you want access to more RAM, you need to look for a publisher. I think allowing Win apps on the Xbox could turn out pretty great depending on what's available and what is produced by the community. A shared ecosystem isn't a bad idea either, since it seems to work well for Apple and their shared experience across all of their platforms and it helps to increase exposure for those who develop for the platform.
Right now though is that it can easily be perceived that if you want access to the entire system, you need to either let MS publish it or find one.
Maximilian E.
AKA MS-Evangelist
nonsense.
Kinect2 is an integral part of the whole XboxOne eco-system...
Kinect2 is an integral part of the whole XboxOne eco-system...
Personally I think the idea of self publishing at a HIGH price to the normal games market would be a good option for Microsoft to give. Who knows? they might. Let's be real, all the major publishers have deals with Microsoft. Microsoft is getting major compensation for every game. If a indie truly wants to be considered equal status, they should pay the same price.
There are indies that could afford this/where it makes sense.
The whole point of signing with a publisher is the funding and promotion they provide. If a indie title can do it on its own, let them do it but at the same price a publisher would be charged.
There are indies that could afford this/where it makes sense.
The whole point of signing with a publisher is the funding and promotion they provide. If a indie title can do it on its own, let them do it but at the same price a publisher would be charged.
IHaveCandy
Banned
What makes you think they'd have 3 GB? That 3 GB isn't dedicated for their game. That 3 GB has the manage the multiple OSes and all the other apps running. They won't have 3 GB for themselves.
Fried Food
Banned
They better not do that. Either include it in all or don't bother.
What a blunder that move would be. They should keep it in and drop the price. Guarantee they sell way more units
What a blunder that move would be. They should keep it in and drop the price. Guarantee they sell way more units
BibiMaghoo
Member
The console is built with the permanent use of kinect in mind. It has resources dedicated to it. Early adopters that do not want a kinect will have to buy one with the console.
I think those statements are covered safely.
This would be an immense fuck up to roll out. I cannot believe this, even before the buttocks train came through.
This is what they would do. And sooner than later depending on PS4 numbers.
dragonbane
Member
Pretty sure The Witness is using a large chunk of the PS4 memory. They don't have a publishing deal and Blow said the huge amount of memory allows them to load the entire world at once and not bothering with streaming, which makes development a lot easier and cheaper.
So 3 GB seems pretty good on its own, but pretty limiting when developers can work with much more on PS4.
It's also coming to iOS and PC. Bet there's no 3gb requirement.
CassiusLonginus
Banned
It's like saying PC Minecraft, 360 Minecraft, and iOS Minecraft are the same game... they're not.
You are getting a different experience depending on the capabilities and the resources of each platform.
BruiserBear
Banned
If it's considered "screwing over early adopter" to remove a piece of hardware from the console in the future, what does that say about that extra piece of hardware?
They are like chickens in the hen when fox comes in...
Not really when you can self publish on the phone and windows8?..
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
So? You always could on Windows, but Xbox has been locked down. If this change is true, it's a huge 180 for them.