The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
He almost had me. He almost fucking had me, I almost thought this was a discussion between two ignoramuses. But nope, couldn't quite make it
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Sam Harris Whitewashes The Bell Curve During Interview With Charles Murray
- Thread starter unpopularblargh
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unpopularblargh
Member
That's pretty much the whole podcast. It's full of circular logic. I honestly thought I was maybe hearing it wrong at first.
Hmmm.....
JordanN
Banned
A good time to bring up this quote.
Society can only benefit when all races are brought to the same level of equality. The opposite has never happened.
The Confederate States (slavery) or Nazi Germany (aryan supremacy) where all massive failures. The USA and modern day Germany are far bigger successes than any racist state.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yo, protip, if your statement starts with "what if I were black" stop
just
stop
just
stop
EdibleKnife
Member
This exactly. Disparaging my race is background noise as a black man
Yeah, his talk on affirmative action had me cringing.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
COLORBLIND SOCIETY
THERE IT IS
THERE IT IS
This is the same weaponization of science that used phrenology and other BS science to do stuff like ban women from being in marathons because they said the uterus would fall out if they tried to run. To the point that people tried to use physical violence to prevent women from running. It was that "accepted" as "sound science".
And of course the actual root fear was not that the woman would come to harm but that she wouldn't be able to make babies for men anymore or *gasp* even beat them in the race*
And of course the actual root fear was not that the woman would come to harm but that she wouldn't be able to make babies for men anymore or *gasp* even beat them in the race*
Exactly. It's pseudoscience BS and imstead of Harris formulating any argument for why this is the case, he props it up as actual science and defends the pseudoscientist from legitimate criticism.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
What the hell is Harris talking about? How can we achieve a race-less future when the entire premise of this podcast is the existence of racial IQ differences?
Now they get to circle jerk about identity politics
Now they get to circle jerk about identity politics
didnt we just have this thread about how saying "race is a social construct" is racist itself
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1361713
Alpha Centauri
Member
Nothing new.
You're missing the nuance.
Race is a social construct but like all social constructs it has real world effects.
Money's just paper but you'd still be mad if I emptied your bank out.
Let's use this example.
A white person and a black person have a child. What race is that child?
A lot of people will say "black". In fact, that used to be law.
Now, let's go further: that child grows up and marries a white person. What race are their children? The law used to be that those children were still considered "black". To be precise, the law in the US used to be that someone was considered "black" if even 1/32 of their heritage was African (if I remember correctly).
That sort of definition is common in discussions of race, but clearly has no basis at all in genetics. That second generation child of mixed heritage already mostly has "white" genetics. But definitions of race are not made based on genetic testing. They are based on superficial features such as shades of skin color.
Complicating attempts to link race and genetics is the fact that categorizations of race often clump together people of widely varying ethnicity and background. For example, the category of "Asian" is problematic, since it links together some wildly different ethnicities into a category that implies a common ancestry that doesn't really exist. These places are lumped together in a way that completely ignores the realities of how these groups of people actually relate to each other.
Yeah. It's kind of like how the language of English is a social construct, but kind of significant.
Is this woman black or asian?
This woman is black.
so then if a social construct has real world effects couldnt it affect intelligence? seems like people want to have it both ways with this concept
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Was a bigot, still a bigot.
RustyNails
Member
Same motherfucker who said we need to profile Muslims.
... you think The Bell Curve is arguing that these social constructs and society are what is affecting intelligence scores?
IggyChooChoo
Member
This is exactly true. White supremacy is a bad name for the actual belief in practice. Racists think of white people as *normal* and black people as *inferior*. That's why Murray's validation are so powerful with them.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
No, I'm blade.
I don't see how you get: "black people are inferior" from "race is a thing that has real world effects". It seems that there's at least one premise missing.
Edit: to be clear, not you in particular. Just in general.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Not everything needs to be challenged, not even you believe that.
ugaboga232
Member
As a neuroscientist any pop depictions of intelligence are cringe inducing because it's basically all conjecture. Intelligence is such a vague concept scientifically speaking.
One thing of note is that chronic stress and discrimination like say from racism and poverty will do damage to your brain much like solitary confinement. There's really no way to unconfound IQ tests from these effects and it's highly unlikely that there are significant differences between the vast majority of ethnic groups with ashkenazi Jews as a big exception due to the founder effect which comes with fun stuff like tay Sachs.
One thing of note is that chronic stress and discrimination like say from racism and poverty will do damage to your brain much like solitary confinement. There's really no way to unconfound IQ tests from these effects and it's highly unlikely that there are significant differences between the vast majority of ethnic groups with ashkenazi Jews as a big exception due to the founder effect which comes with fun stuff like tay Sachs.
Is this woman black or asian?
mixed?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
lol what on earth is this discussion on moral values?
She's Dominican and has almost pure spanish/taino.
Taino is an indigenous tribe of the dominican republic who have people who look like -
What about this girl -
White or latino?
TwntyOneTwlv
Member
Murray seemed disingenuous as fuck when challenged by Sam on why anyone would even want to study this topic. I really didn't like the guy, and it sucks that Sam felt like he needed to have this guy on. And praise him so much.
I like Sam a lot, but this episode was a major blunder.
I like Sam a lot, but this episode was a major blunder.
👌
She's Dominican and has almost pure spanish/taino.
Taino is an indigenous tribe of the dominican republic who have people who look like -
What about this woman -
White or latino?
That dude is black too.
The white/latino picture isn't working.
I hear people, much less educated than Harris, spout this shit pretty often. It's what they say when they just don't have the balls to confess that they hate black people. I know Sam Harris has been on his way to being a prototypical right wing bigot for awhile, but that's still pretty disappointing to read.
I don't know. Does the amount of money you have in your bank out tell me how intelligent you are? What about the brands you wear? How about the make and model of your car? All of these things have tangential connections to class and social status but if your boss wouldn't hire you because you drive a shitty taurus instead of a nice porsche you'd be pissed wouldn't you? What if your boss shows you shitty(continuously debunked) statistics that taurus owners are shifty eyed criminals so, of course he shouldn't hire you. Would you be okay with that then?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
oh my god did this really just become about the "mainstream media"?
He's taino. His family hasn't touched africa since yours have. Calling him African-American would be a misnomer since he's latino/native american.
I can't post pics for some reason. Someone help me out here.
BarringGaffner
Member
lol listen to that podcast. Omer comes off as one of the stupidest people I have ever heard.
And this is where the unrolling of the hay bale of institutionalized harm comes in. Minority communites have harder access to nutrition and good schools because the white people in power literally stole, razed, or just outright took money away. Black communities on the upswing are re-zoned as "blighted" and sold off to developers for pennies on the dollar, forcing them to mve to.. you guessed it, the next plot of cheaper less desirable land. Which has a low property tax. Schools are funded off property tax, so schools in low property tax areas are worse than higher tax because they have a harder time recruiting teachers or buying materials.
Once again, I'll use the example of the Tulsa Race Riot:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot
Black Wall Street was burned and razed to the ground. The whites that did this then re-zoned Black Wall Street so the black community was legally blocked from rebuilding their own community.
Or the example of how drug use is only policed in minority neighborhoods and ignored in white ones because "otherwise you'd lose your overtime", directly from the mouth of a high ranking DEA officer, leading even more into the perceptual feedback loop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ImeWd5gFTo
Or how KKK groups were deputized and went around and took black citizen's guns in the name of "security" (read: the security of the status quo), because the 2nd only protects you when you're white.
Or how we stole a large chunk Asian-american business, land, and wealth during WW2 in the name of "security" (once again, of the white status quo). We sent black soldiers to training with wooden rifles because whites were more afraid of being "evened up" on even though those men volunteered to die for a country that had violated their personhood.
One just needs to ask yourself: does this thing this person is saying or arguing posit that white people or men are innately superior? If yes, then look at the bias of the tools and measures they are using. IQ is notorious for being more of a cultural test than an intelligence one, for example. Harris is just racism wrapped in the linen of very curated rhetoric and cherry picked science.
metalslimer
Member
And people are still defending him...shocked
unpopularblargh
Member
It's not that he's peddling already debunked pseudo science, it must be the SJWs not understanding his work.
I'm sure there's a bingo card somewhere that you can fill out.
She's Dominican and has almost pure spanish/taino.
Taino is an indigenous tribe of the dominican republic who have people who look like -
What about this girl -
White or latino?
that man clearly has recent african ancestry, which is not surprising since mixing was and is quite common in latin america.
He's taino. His family hasn't touched africa since yours have. Calling him African-American would be a misnomer since he's latino/native american.
Is this boy white?
I didn't say he was African American. I said he was black. There are black latino and black native Americans.
None of your white pictures are working btw. Try saving and re-uploading them to imgur or something.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Do you understand that the US worldview about race is not the objective truth ?
These categories the West created are very limited and don't reflect the inherent diversity of the wide ethnical spectrum of the human race.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
What makes him black? Literally just skin tone?
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