cj_iwakura
Member
I need a printable of this, somehow.
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Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
cj_iwakura
Member
smtg said it is, an LE. Maybe it was made?I guess it's not, unfortunately.
I want to believe it was, at least.
I wouldn't believe anything from smtg though
cj_iwakura
Member
cj_iwakura
Member
Oh yeah...Wrong cat.
Or is it?
Wait, what's this iOS about? I'm playing SMT1 on my phone and I'm fully upgraded. Is something gonna go wrong? I had the game since before, just haven't played it.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
SMT1 on iOS is 32bit, once iOS 11 drops (im not sure when) 32bit support is gonna vanish so the app shouldn't be able to launch.
Estoma is there for that.
I loved that dungeon, makes SMT IV's "dungeon" seem so, so small in comparison...
snow in jamaica
Member
The broker demons are more for fusion and the field. The broker's Pisaca is good to have around for Estoma, Liftoma, and Lightoma.
There's one that sells a Pisaca with Estoma? Gonna have to go find that.
snow in jamaica
Member
It's somewhere in the first Kalpa.
What got him banned?
Hmm, I wonder what happened with cj... His avatar is still visible though, so I think he's not permabanned.
I felt so stupid when I discovered Daisoujou's gimmick only upon reaching the last kalpa lol, I was already pretty unstoppable but after fusing him I reached true demonhood.
I felt so stupid when I discovered Daisoujou's gimmick only upon reaching the last kalpa lol, I was already pretty unstoppable but after fusing him I reached true demonhood.
I think the avatar thing was debunked. I don't really know what causes it, but I have seen plenty of temp banned people have avatars disappear, and perm'd people that didn't.
Not translating P2 EP PSP fast enough.
No idea but it should be in his post history
Speaking of which, never thought I'd get my dungeon crawling fix from Persona rather than SMT but apparently that's the reality we live in right now. SMT Switch make dungeon crawling great again.
TBH some dungeons in Apocalypse were excellent. I also really liked some of the SMTIV dungeons. I liked the idea of some of them being like places people inhabited once.
Apocalypse and IV Spoilers:
Cosmic Egg and Camp Ichigaya were particularly good. Fuck YHVH's realm and the wormwood and Navarre barriers that went to absolutely nothing. It's really shitty when the only purpose it serves is to frustrate the player,
and isn't even any kind of challenge.
and isn't even any kind of challenge.
Etrian Odyssey is where you should be going for god tier Atlus dungeon crawling anyways. Though P5's have certainly been some of the best SMT dungeon crawling from what I've played, SMT Switch is going to have to learn some new tricks if it wants to keep up.
Dragon1893
Member
I wonder if he's ever going to finish it. I've been resisting picking up EP from PSN to play on the vita, the japanese PSP version has been sitting in my basket at PlayAsia for a year lol.
Checking his post history, that thread about drugs seems to have gone places. Hope it's a short ban.
I think he picked up the project somewhat recently once the previous team that was working on it dropped out or something so give him time
It'll probably still take a few years.
The problem with IV and Apocalypse is that not only are the dungeons really short and simple but also completely trivialized due to the lack of punishment (save anywhere in both games, and Apocalypse just straight up ressurrects you on the spot). Meanwhile I got Megaten'd in P5 due to an unfortunate enemy ambush and actually had to deal with the consequences. It was great when I was super low on SP but also reaaaally close to the end of the dungeon so I needed to be extra cautious and make one or two trips back to the last save point while also taking advantage of negotiations to dispose of enemy encounters quickly and getting some cash out of it too. It's great because it offers a sense of danger and keeps exploration engaging.
(Apocalypse spoilers)
The Cosmic Egg went some ways towards fixing this by making it impossible for Dagda to ressurrect you and it was definitely the strongest dungeon in the game but it still didn't quite reach the same heights as the Maniax team past works
Etrian Odyssey satisfies another niche though, as the dynamics between exploring a tile-based first person dungeon and a fully realized 3D space are totally different. So while it's a really strong FP dungeon crawler, it's not really scratching that same itch as a 3rd person SMT dungeon. Not to mention it's a totally different ballpark in therms of atmosphere and all that
I've often wondered if a freeform Etrian Odyssey would work though. Like, keeping the 1st person perspective, but having the same freedom of movement as you would in an FPS. It would fundamentally change how dungeon crawling works but I wonder if it's an experiment worth trying.
Save anywhere is an odd thing. Honestly, I don't think it changed anything about how I played SMTIV. Resource management quickly becomes less of an issue the further we get into an SMT game, thanks to all the demons and items we can have I don't find getting from save point to save point to be where the difficulty comes from, rather it's just that any random battle can go bad really fast.
That's from EO with its limited item space, or P5, where getting through a palace in a single day when we can't just buy back our SP ends up making us really think about how we approach dungeon crawling. Saving anywhere in these would let us brute force our way around resource management issues, but in SMTIV it just felt like I was saving time(especially once I could drain MP with the MC).
I have not had a chance to play Apocalypse yet, so I can't talk about it.
Still, I can take it or leave it, and would prefer not having it if the next SMT game finds a way to make resource management more of an issue from save point to save point.
Etrian Odyssey satisfies another niche though, as the dynamics between exploring a tile-based first person dungeon and a fully realized 3D space are totally different. So while it's a really strong FP dungeon crawler, it's not really scratching that same itch as a 3rd person SMT dungeon. Not to mention it's a totally different ballpark in therms of atmosphere and all that
I've often wondered if a freeform Etrian Odyssey would work though. Like, keeping the 1st person perspective, but having the same freedom of movement as you would in an FPS. It would fundamentally change how dungeon crawling works but I wonder if it's an experiment worth trying.
I guess they are different kinds of dungeons, haha. But I can't deny that having already played EO(and even Strange Journey) before I made it to Nocturne made its dungeons feel tame to me. That might be part of the reason I didn't care that SMTIV didn't have Nocturne style dungeons.
I doubt we will see an EO game with FPS movement, since the series is all about embracing the classic tile-based, first person dungeon crawling. Honestly, it's not something I would be interested in, but I also can't imagine the EO team wanting to do that either.
See, I disagree with this because while resource management isn't much of a factor in mid to endgame, knowing you can get wiped out and lose all your progress still keeps you on your toes while exploring. In SMT IV and (specially) Apocalypse I just really couldn't care less whether I got wiped out or not. It makes dungeon crawling way too tame, so I only felt truly engaged on boss fights, specially boss gauntlets in Apocalypse. It's unfortunate because the latter has a somewhat steep difficulty curve in its early dungeons on the DLC difficulty, but it feels meaningless since I can just get a game over screen, say Yes to Dagda and bam, I'm back to the exact same spot I died with all my teammates healed up. What's the point, then? lol
To use another franchise as an example, that'd be like being able to save before and after moving your units in Fire Emblem. It'd take away all the tension from battles.
Like I said on a previous discussion about this, save points aren't the only solution to this issue, but they seriously need to think of a proper punishment system if they don't want to punish players by losing progress. DQ takes half your money, Souls has souls/bloodstains, SMT could use its own penalty system. That or make every single enemy encounter meaningful, which would be a herculean effort.
It's funny you mention FE, because there is one FE game where we can save at the start of every turn, FE4. This causes the issues you would expect, run into a problem? go back a turn and try something else until you can brute force your way through. It's not hard to see why it was added, the maps are too large and having to restart any would be enough to make someone stop playing the game, but it's still way too available. For other gameplay reasons, it's not a FE game I care for personally, but it is a great example of how save anywhere can negatively hurt the gameplay for FE. (Letting the player save after moving units would be somewhat hilarious though, just for all the times someone would make a bad move, save, and later realize how bad an idea that was, haha)
I do agree with the idea of SMT finding a new way to punish players for dieing, because honestly I don't think resource management will ever be much of an issue when we can fill our party with any of twelve(or more!) fully customizable demons at any time, and that's ignoring when the MC is customizable. P5 was able to make the most of the resource management aspect thanks to SP recovery not being so easy as well as a much more limited group of party members(up to what I've played anyways, I'm not finished yet), but I think mainline SMT will have to find a new approach because of how it plays.
Haha, I knew you would bring up FE4. I love that game, but saving at the start of each turn is definitely an issue. Still, the game makes up for it somewhat by making you stuck in an irreversible situation if you're too careless, which is why I always kept different saves from a few turns back juuust in case. It's something I'd like to see them address in a remake, though. Playing through Shadow Dragon, I think Genealogy could benefit from a similar savepoint system.
As for SMT, I think a combination of Charon + save points could be a good compromise. That way you could either pay a high amount of money to be ressurrected or eat up the game over and restart from the last checkpoint.
I am wondering the same thing, hopefully it shows up on Amazon JP.
Just finished up my first playthrough of Nocturne last week and boy was it something else. I enjoyed most of my time with the game but I do kind of regret going for the TDE as I did feel burnt out going through the Labyrinth of Amala. However, I did enjoy the extra story you do get by going through the labyrinth as I found the main story kind of lacking coming from the Persona series. What was there I did think was interesting but I just wish there was more of it. Are the other mainline SMT games this bare with their stories or is Nocturne the odd one out? Now that think back on it the labyrinth did let me reunite with my favorite demon
so it wasn't all bad. One last thing I'd like to add is how spoiled I felt coming off of P4G and P5 where you chose which skills to inherit during fusions. It didn't stop me from being able to create decent demons for the endgame, just that I forgot how annoying it was to hope you get lucky and have your demon inherit the right skills.
Despite some of my complaints I did really enjoy the game and I'm eager to try out the other non-Persona SMT games. The next one I have lined up to play is the first Digital Devil Saga, which I already have about an hour in. So far the combat seems like a neat twist where you can switch out abilities without permanently replacing them, and I thought the story started out strong. Anyone have any tips for my first playthrough or should I just keep going and figure things out on my own?
Pixie <3
Despite some of my complaints I did really enjoy the game and I'm eager to try out the other non-Persona SMT games. The next one I have lined up to play is the first Digital Devil Saga, which I already have about an hour in. So far the combat seems like a neat twist where you can switch out abilities without permanently replacing them, and I thought the story started out strong. Anyone have any tips for my first playthrough or should I just keep going and figure things out on my own?
Yeah, I feel like Nocturne's pretty light story-wise.
The other mainline SMTs that I've played aren't exactly big on story, either, but Nocturne definitely has less than say, SMTIV:A.
If you're playing DDS, that's one of the more story-focused ones.
Also if you wanna get skills faster in DDS, get a high STR character and give them a strong hunt skill that hits all enemies, Iron Stomach, AP divide, and AP boost.
I forget exactly when you can get those skills, but I remember them being useful for grinding mid-game and later...
The other mainline SMTs that I've played aren't exactly big on story, either, but Nocturne definitely has less than say, SMTIV:A.
If you're playing DDS, that's one of the more story-focused ones.
Also if you wanna get skills faster in DDS, get a high STR character and give them a strong hunt skill that hits all enemies, Iron Stomach, AP divide, and AP boost.
I forget exactly when you can get those skills, but I remember them being useful for grinding mid-game and later...
I'm glad to hear that DDS is more story-focused and thanks for the farming advice. Although I'm not exactly sure what a hunt skill is but I'm sure I'll figure it out soon.
Even though I just finished the game I'm having a hard time gauging how far that is. I'd say that you're about
60%-ish done. You have several more dungeons left not including the rest of the labyrinth.
Neat. I'm doing all that. Murdered all the
Riders for their candelabra's and everything.
snow in jamaica
Member
Nocturne is just different because it isn't big on exposition or interpersonal relationships whereas something like Persona has tons of dialogue and character interactions.
I don't think people approach Souls or Taro Yoko stories the way they would with other RPGs and I think Nocturne evaluations would benefit from thinking more outside the box.
It's fun to see how much of it fits into its overarching theme of death and rebirth for example.
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I don't think people approach Souls or Taro Yoko stories the way they would with other RPGs and I think Nocturne evaluations would benefit from thinking more outside the box.
It's fun to see how much of it fits into its overarching theme of death and rebirth for example.
The Conception takes place in a hospital and the protagonist wakes up in a hospital bed reborn as a demon
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
So honestly replaying through SMT1 it's absolutely insane to me how well this game holds up to this day. Some things are really dated but that's mostly just the UI and menu management stuff.
Combat is still damn good. I kind of love that your demon's don't level at all so you're encouraged to just keep fusing whatever you've got on hand until you've got demon's that can survive against the things you're running into. It really adds to the experience when you've got to choose between your lower level demons with elemental and skill diversity...or demons that have health to survive more than one direct hit from the enemies in the area.
Some things about the balance are hilariously janky though, like zio, bufu and nerve bullets are just insane. My fight with thor was a straight up auto battle stunlock carnival.
It's really crazy how this game came out in 91, it's ridiculously ahead of its time. A full scale branching story with multiple side quests that affect later moment in the game, a shit ton of party customization that outdoes most modern games and on top of that the entire premise is kojima levels of insane but it works so well!
Combat is still damn good. I kind of love that your demon's don't level at all so you're encouraged to just keep fusing whatever you've got on hand until you've got demon's that can survive against the things you're running into. It really adds to the experience when you've got to choose between your lower level demons with elemental and skill diversity...or demons that have health to survive more than one direct hit from the enemies in the area.
Some things about the balance are hilariously janky though, like zio, bufu and nerve bullets are just insane. My fight with thor was a straight up auto battle stunlock carnival.
It's really crazy how this game came out in 91, it's ridiculously ahead of its time. A full scale branching story with multiple side quests that affect later moment in the game, a shit ton of party customization that outdoes most modern games and on top of that the entire premise is kojima levels of insane but it works so well!
One of the days I should give in and finish SMTII at least, I started it a bunch of times but I always get bored midways, I really hated exploring the game's dungeons. It's the only "major" translated megaten I'm missing.
I was actually thinking of doing it after Persona 5, but I got side-tracked by Fire Emblem.
I was actually thinking of doing it after Persona 5, but I got side-tracked by Fire Emblem.
I gave a try to SMT 1 a couple of years ago. It was my first SMT game. Somehow I liked it, but it was really frustrating, I died all over again. I got to that palace after Tokyo being bombed by the Americans, and I couldn't go forward it, my patience ended here. Really frustrating.
I tryed Nocturne later, but got stuck in Matador. I was very hard for me to get there as well. I gave up because I was frustrated once more, but I loved the atmosphere here too.
I gave a try later to SMT IV, which looked more intuitive, and I had read somewhere it was a good start for newcomers. It was very hard at the beginning, until Medusa, and I really enjoyed that game from start to finish; it's one of my favorites of all time. I could feel myself even better at Apocalypse from the beginning.
Then I tried Nocturne again, and got stuck in Matador once more. This time, getting there was quite easy for me, and I've read somewhere that you need to be in level 22-25 to beat him, and I'm on 16 right now, time to start grinding. Whatever, the experience this time was completely different, I was really enjoying the game this time.
I feel like I finally understood the core mechanics of the franchise. In Persona 5 (I know they are all easier) I feel like an expert playing it. If we have 20 days to steal a heart, I only need 3 or 4.
I think I will go back to Nocturne after finishing Persona 5. Grind until I'm strong enough to beat Matador, and go on.
And I should go back to SMT 1 later. Even if the game is hard as fuck, I think I will do it much better by far this time.
I tryed Nocturne later, but got stuck in Matador. I was very hard for me to get there as well. I gave up because I was frustrated once more, but I loved the atmosphere here too.
I gave a try later to SMT IV, which looked more intuitive, and I had read somewhere it was a good start for newcomers. It was very hard at the beginning, until Medusa, and I really enjoyed that game from start to finish; it's one of my favorites of all time. I could feel myself even better at Apocalypse from the beginning.
Then I tried Nocturne again, and got stuck in Matador once more. This time, getting there was quite easy for me, and I've read somewhere that you need to be in level 22-25 to beat him, and I'm on 16 right now, time to start grinding. Whatever, the experience this time was completely different, I was really enjoying the game this time.
I feel like I finally understood the core mechanics of the franchise. In Persona 5 (I know they are all easier) I feel like an expert playing it. If we have 20 days to steal a heart, I only need 3 or 4.
I think I will go back to Nocturne after finishing Persona 5. Grind until I'm strong enough to beat Matador, and go on.
And I should go back to SMT 1 later. Even if the game is hard as fuck, I think I will do it much better by far this time.
Lunarwhale
Member
Absolutely. I finally did a full playthrough of the SFC version (with the fixed fan translation+patch that sets L and R to be map display buttons) last year and consistently loved it. Agree on the demon part as well - the game was so well balanced to having static demons, and it encouraged you to swap your party regularly. Enemy in a dungeon you don't feel like fucking with? Probably intentional! Time to recruit it so you don't have to worry about it again. It's not really a game where you have to grind, so there's ample encouragement to just play it smart instead and pick your battles. Negotiation was so well integrated.
I've only played the SFC version (and still haven't beaten it), but Megami Tensei II is phenomenal. I was surprised that it was such a consistently impressive, enjoyable game today. It's aged so well due to how unique it is in terms of story and world exploration. Loved all the little secrets you found throughout the world by exploring and talking to the right NPCs.
also got really fond memories of when that translation patch came out and people dug up old rumors that you could finish the game with Senda instead of Rosanna.
SMT2's worth seeing to the end, but christ all the backtracking and item collecting parts grated on me after a bit.