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Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon

S

snow in jamaica

Member
I mean it's hundreds of unique representations of cultural icons that compose the meat of the franchise versus Guy In A Uniform. Talking about them like they're fodder is just a really weird approach.

Es should totally be in a Persona game!
 
G

Golnei

Member
Going by IV-A, I wonder if Demeter and Zeus' concept designs explored a few more traditional angles for depicting them. Though that might have to wait until an artbook is released for the next game their designs are used in, I'm not sure if they're doing something like that for DSJ?
 
A

asagami_

Banned
So I have the crazy idea to track down the PS2 Megaten games. I will ignore Persona 3 and 4, I have faith they will come in a modern system (PS4 or Switch)... maybe before this decade ends.

I ordered the DDS games in my local Amazon. The first one (which I already played some years ago lol) is going to arrive first. The second has undefined date, though, and it's the one I want to play aaaahrg.

Edit: I'm wrong. The first game is the one with undefined date haha.

I want buy the Raidou games and Nocturne, but I can only find them in Amazon USA, and well, I would need a PO BOX to help me.

(I also saw the DS EO games are still available and they are not so expensive, which surprise me a bit, but I can wait... to buy them, maybe next year)
 
H

Hylian7

Member
asagami_ said:
So I have the crazy idea to track down the PS2 Megaten games. I will ignore Persona 3 and 4, I have faith they will come in a modern system (PS4 or Switch)... maybe before this decade ends.

I ordered the DDS games in my local Amazon. The first one (which I already played some years ago lol) is going to arrive first. The second has undefined date, though, and it's the one I want to play aaaahrg.

Edit: I'm wrong. The first game is the one with undefined date haha.

I want buy the Raidou games and Nocturne, but I can only find them in Amazon USA, and well, I would need a PO BOX to help me.

(I also saw the DS EO games are still available and they are not so expensive, which surprise me a bit, but I can wait... to buy them, maybe next year)
Click to expand...
If all else fails, get a PS3 and all the PS2 Megaten games are available as PS2 Classics on PSN there.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
asagami_ said:
Actually I bought a PS3 just for Persona 5 xD but lately is more a Netflix and BD player than anything.
Click to expand...
Well there you go then. I believe every single Megaten game on PS2 is on there. I can't think of any that are missing.

Nocturne
Persona 3 FES (original P3 isn't there, but it hardly matters with FES on there)
Persona 4
DDS 1
DDS 2
Raidou 1
Raidou 2
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Yeah, they're all there. I think the PAL store even has Maken Shao if you want to count that.
Click to expand...

That's the only store that has it, lol. Maken X PS2 never came out in the US.

After having played it, I can see why. It's bad. The Dreamcast version is way better.


That said, I think of it as an honorary SMT game. The art style and story is pure R&D1.
 
L

Lynx_7

Member
So apparently there was a popular vote or something in Japan? Atlus JP just uploaded a 3 hours list with the 149 best tracks in the franchise.

Edit: Nocturne's world map theme is way too low. At least the final world map theme placed well, though it should be slightly higher too. And I love Nocturne's normal battle theme, but there are better battle themes in Nocturne,
and Intro 2, the rightful no.1, was robbed!
Some really odd choices here and there (SMT 1's title track almost in the top 10?), but judging by the top 5, I'm glad even Japan agrees Nocturne is the GOAT :p
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Lynx_7 said:
So apparently there was a popular vote or something in Japan? Atlus JP just uploaded a 3 hours list with the 149 best tracks in the franchise.

Edit: Nocturne's world map theme is way too low. At least the final world map theme placed well, though it should be slightly higher too. And I love Nocturne's normal battle theme, but there are better battle themes in Nocturne,
and Intro 2, the rightful no.1, was robbed!
Some really odd choices here and there (SMT 1's title track almost in the top 10?), but judging by the top 5, I'm glad even Japan agrees Nocturne is the GOAT :p
Click to expand...
Yeah, I participated. It was done on their site via SoundCloud links, I think.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Lynx_7 said:
So apparently there was a popular vote or something in Japan? Atlus JP just uploaded a 3 hours list with the 149 best tracks in the franchise.

Edit: Nocturne's world map theme is way too low. At least the final world map theme placed well, though it should be slightly higher too. And I love Nocturne's normal battle theme, but there are better battle themes in Nocturne,
and Intro 2, the rightful no.1, was robbed!
Some really odd choices here and there (SMT 1's title track almost in the top 10?), but judging by the top 5, I'm glad even Japan agrees Nocturne is the GOAT :p
Click to expand...

Going briefly through the list, looks like great choices. I'm okay with #1 being the Nocturne Battle Theme. I think some of SMTIV's tracks were underrated though. SMTIV's Battle B2 (the regular boss theme everyone loves) was underrated at only #20.

Edit: The Apocalypse Archangel remix was only #103?!
 
S

snow in jamaica

Member
I'm finally reading QDS Vol. 1! Something immediately different compared to DDS is the cycle of rebirth.

The neverending rain comes from corpses. Fallen soldiers disperse into the heavens, rain down, and flow into a purification place of the Karma Temple where they're cleansed of karma and reborn as new people.
 
A

asagami_

Banned
2D Siren is in the list? I can't find it. It's one of my favorite songs from SMT 2. And there's if... songs? I mean, I saw one song from the Xbox's Nine game, and if... is more iconic, lol.

Anyway, my favorites not-battle songs are in the top 30.

3D: Hell - 11
Tokyo - 24
Conception - 27
Last Area - 29
 
L

Lynx_7

Member
This interview with Hashino was posted in the Persona thread and I thought it might be interesting to some of you, so I'm reposting it here. I thought about making a thread about it, but I don't like making threads :p. I suggest giving it a read, but I'll repost some of the more important points:

On Hashino's start at Atlus
.Point #1: Hashino decided to apply to Atlus literally because he opened a phone book and it was listed at the top of the page he opened to.
.Point #2: When he first joined Atlus, he didn't know how to operate or even turn on a PC and didn't know what his coworkers were discussing.
.Atlus offices sounded a little crazy back then. Thick with tobacco and incense smoke and doors covered in yen notes, maybe as an aesthetic?
.Point #4: Six months on the job, he was tasked with working on Devil Summoner 1, where he was asked to design the demon combat AI algorithm.
.Bear in mind that, again, he knew next to nothing about computers and had to quickly learn the basics of programming on the job.
Click to expand...

Atlus offices back in the day sounds like the type of place I picture Kaneko would work for. Maybe he doesn't do anything these days because they changed to a more sterile workplace and he doesn't like that or the company's more recent direction in general? Just throwing some guesses, but he comes across as this really "alternative" kind of person who'd fit in 90s~DS era Atlus just fine but not necessarily enjoy their latest output.

On Hashino's PS2 work
.Point 6: One interesting thing many may want to know is that he doesn't personally consider much of his DC/PS2 work to be very successful.
.Maken X, for instance, sold poorly. To hear him tell it, the Atlus house style coupled with then still new FPS view limited the player base.
.Even more interesting, he feels that even SMT3 and the DDS games didn't ultimately deliver, either. Hardly bad games, but not smash hits.
.Digging for sales figures for SMT3 in particular at the indicates that it didn't set sales charts on fire. It was decent, but that's it.
.This isn't just about cynical capitalism for capitalism's sake, either. The lack of real, substantial success was hurting the company.
.It's more well known among JP fans, but pre-P3, Atlus was starting to approach a do or die point. It was getting harder for it to make games
Click to expand...
So, yeah. R&D1 is dead, long live R&D1. I had some hopes before, but seeing how they view this era as somewhat of a failure, SMT V probably won't borrow much from it. Hoping to be proven wrong.

On the Persona series
.Knowing that... Point #7: Persona 3 turned out so differently from the previous games in part because Atlus needed a new lease on life.
.So this is all well and good except... Point #8: Persona 3 didn't exactly light the world on fire at first when it came out in Japan.
.Hashino is not unaware of why this was, especially with respect to it being a very different game from Persona 1 and 2. Ppl were ambivalent.
.Word of mouth from people who played it is ultimately what helped salvage it and keep Atlus in games. Still not a blockbuster, but decent.
.Point #9: This drama with P3 changed how Hashino and Atlus approached presented their subsequent games moving forward.
.Previously, he was of the mind that as long as they made interesting games, they'd ultimately find their way to the right people somehow.
.As indie devs can attest, that's hardly guaranteed and Hashino came to this conclusion. It was crucial to think of "context" in many senses.
.Part of this means situational, like series legacy. Part of it is also evolution (ie: P3 took place in city, P4 takes place in the country).
.But most interestingly, part of his idea about context involves how games are presented and discussed, especially pre-release.
.This is why P5 had crazy promotion stunts. It helped keep the game in people's minds, even if the conversation wasn't always about the game.
Click to expand...

The part about the president comparing him to Che Guevara is funny, but I wonder why they placed so much trust in him? If all 3 of his games until that point had disappointing performances and the guy didn't even know how to code properly, it really makes me wonder how he managed to end up heading so many projects.

The interview finishes with some Project Re;Fantasy stuff, about how Atlus going back to that genre brings a twist to what the company can bring to the table (correct if I'm wrong, but... Didn't Radiant Historia kinda do this first?)
 
T

TheRazielim

Member
Yeah, I think I'm increasingly less interested in the future of Megaten. This only confirms the direction we can expect from the company moving on.

Lol, also I only now realized we have a separate Persona community thread. I prefer this place though.
 
S

snow in jamaica

Member
Point #1: Hashino decided to apply to Atlus literally because he opened a phone book and it was listed at the top of the page he opened to.
[...]
Among other places, he also apparently interviewed at a futon maker and implies he would've potentially enjoyed that work, too.
Click to expand...

well, these days he's directly spurring the pillow industry, so in a way he fulfilled both dreams
 
H

Hylian7

Member
While I'm not a fan of some of the changes they've had to Megaten, pretty much what Hashino mentioned in that interview, I'm still enjoying Megaten. It's still good and consistent in quality. Definitely not the golden PS2 era, but still great. I liked SMTIV, I liked Apocalypse. I have high hopes for SMTV/Switch/whatever.

I realize they probably won't do anything Nocturne level again, but that's okay, I'd like Megaten to still exist.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
SMT IV and A still have shades of Nocturne influence. I'm optimistic they still have it, they just need to stop making the games so easy/accessible. Not gonna happen, I know. Bad for business.
 
R

randomkid

Member
kaneko's current station at atlus must be pretty basement level if this dude feels comfortable publicly pegging the "house style" at the time as the problem with ps2 era atlus games.

... in any case, hello smt community thread, i am currently trying to give devil survivor another shot with overclocked after giving up on the ds version seven years ago. can anyone tell me which route someone like me would enjoy the most? i don't really like any of these characters but i'm not sure how early any of these paths get closed off and would like to at least keep my options open as long as possible.
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Accessibility aside, the biggest issue for me is tone. The atmosphere, humor and writing style of the PS2 era is completely lost, and the differences between mainline SMT and Persona in those departments decrease with each new game.

I'm not fond of stuff like save everywhere and the games being easier in general, but they're still fun to play. Anime SMT definitely sucks though.

randomkid said:
kaneko's current station at atlus must be pretty basement level if this dude feels comfortable publicly pegging the "house style" at the time as the problem with ps2 era atlus games.

... in any case, hello smt community thread, i am currently trying to give devil survivor another shot with overclocked after giving up on the ds version seven years ago. can anyone tell me which route someone like me would enjoy the most? i don't really like any of these characters but i'm not sure how early any of these paths get closed off and would like to at least keep my options open as long as possible.
Click to expand...

Devil Survivor 1 is probably the only game where I find all paths interesting to a degree, even law, but hmm... Naoya, maybe? It's pretty much chaos, but more grounded and with genuinely good intentions (for the most part anyway), kinda like SMT2 chaos. It's hard, though.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Accessibility aside, the biggest issue for me is tone. The atmosphere, humor and writing style of the PS2 era is completely lost, and the differences between mainline SMT and Persona in those departments decrease with each new game.

I'm not fond of stuff like save everywhere and the games being easier in general, but they're still fun to play. Anime SMT definitely sucks though.
Click to expand...

I think they were really onto something with SMTIV, and the tone of the people in Tokyo as well as the idea of the culture shock between the more primitive people of Mikado vs all the technology in Tokyo they had never seen before. It was pretty cool and I think if they did something along the lines of that, they could get closer to that tone.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
If you follow a guide, you could actually pretty much keep all routes open all at once. The actual route choice is made at the end of the 6th day, with the choices available based on what you've done through the first 6 days.

Regarding what route you'd enjoy the most, it depends on what you want?

A well executed law ending? Go Amane.
Fight against heavenly's forces, although you can avoid doing Chaos stuff? Go Naoya or Kaido.
Very closed ending that was clearly intended to be the main ending before the 8th days were added? Go with Gin's route.

There's little reason to go with Atsuro's ending (this one is also really hard to trigger too) and Yuzu's ending aside from really liking their characters.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Accessibility aside, the biggest issue for me is tone. The atmosphere, humor and writing style of the PS2 era is completely lost, and the differences between mainline SMT and Persona in those departments decrease with each new game.

I'm not fond of stuff like save everywhere and the games being easier in general, but they're still fun to play. Anime SMT definitely sucks though.



Devil Survivor 1 is probably the only game where I find all paths interesting to a degree, even law, but hmm... Naoya, maybe? It's pretty much chaos, but more grounded and with genuinely good intentions (for the most part anyway), kinda like SMT2 chaos. It's hard, though.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It can't be thought of as "stuff for those people", and especially since I am down with some good "light" stuff from time to time as cute can be good right? Same with easy games, "yall do you" and I'll partake in one from time to time if it's nifty and swift ya know?

No, it ends up spreading to every series that walks a different path, either from indifference from the market, concerns from producers, or new creatives who know no different. That tone, that grognardity that you mentioned...it just fades away.
 
L

Lunarwhale

Member
I think part of my current issue with the series direction as well is that it isn't moving forward as much as it was. The old team described their games as being very punkish compared to their competition. SMT4 and 4A, while I love them dearly, are a little wrapped up in their own nostalgia to really evoke much on that front. 4A's "anime" shenanigans don't really help with that either, with it sort of throwing out its more interesting plot developments. Shame too because, until (endgame spoilers)
Asahi and Flynn came back to life
, I thought the plot was solid. Very nice, speedy pacing paired with a fun gaiden story cast. It just didn't end up feeling very Megami Tensei in some key ways. There was no real consequence or lasting impact to the plot - ironically making it less inspiring than some other games in the series, which end on more genuinely optimistic notes of trying to recover after so much has been lost.

This isn't to say Megami Tensei hasn't been reliant on popular anime tropes in the past - the source material was dripping with 80's light novel and sci-fi anime cliches, and the team had a thing for Go Nagai's works all the way through Nocturne - but there was a wider breadth of influence that balanced it out, and more unique takes on the subject matter.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I never finished Persona 3 before, but it was a few years ago when I was playing it, so I decided to just start over.

Like back then, I never understood the decision to have no direct command. They had it in P3P, and of course P4 and onward. I don't know if P1 and P2 had it. Seeing that the protagonist is supposed to be the leader, I see no reason why there shouldn't be direct command. Right now it's still fine, I haven't gotten Mitsuru yet and her infamous Marin Karin, but I do remember at that point it could get infuriating. It's also particularly early on when something had a Garu weakness, and you can't tell Yukari to use it, because you don't have access to Angel yet.

I forgot about that one kid's S-Link where he wanted to date the teacher. P5 wasn't the first time they did the student teacher relationship thing.

P5 kind of spoiled me with the negotiation rather than the boring shuffle time. I also don't find the generic Shadow enemies near as interesting as the SMT demons, especially when some are just different color iterations of a weaker one.

While it technically has the same restrictions on bedtime that P5 did, there's no character associated with it, so it's much less annoying.

Overall I really like P3, and like some aspects of P3 over P5. P5 does have it beat in gameplay though.
marmoka said:
Has anybody heard anything about a "Megaten Special" for September 23rd? Or did I just dream this?
Click to expand...
I haven't heard of this, but if true I would hope maybe SMT Switch info? Maybe they have something to show, even if it's just a title reveal?
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
After trying P3P I kinda appreciate the party AI system in the original actually, you can tell the game is completely balanced around it. But either way, I haven't read dev comments on it, but my guess is that it was to tie gameplay to the game's themes and social link mechanics.

Basically you're trusting your teammates to back you up, and as your bond deepens and trust grows, you get to give them more specific strategies to better work as a team, just like they get closer to you in the story.

I think it's pretty novel as a concept but obviously, not everyone liked it, myself included (back then anyway).

... And yeah, that magician guy lol. He's one of the worst SLs in the series, what a tool.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Opa-Pa said:
After trying P3P I kinda appreciate the party AI system in the original actually, you can tell the game is completely balanced around it. But either way, I haven't read dev comments on it, but my guess is that it was to tie gameplay to the game's themes and social link mechanics.

Basically you're trusting your teammates to back you up, and as your bond deepens and trust grows, you get to give them more specific strategies to better work as a team, just like they get closer to you in the story.

I think it's pretty novel as a concept but obviously, not everyone liked it, myself included (back then anyway).

... And yeah, that magician guy lol. He's one of the worst SLs in the series, what a tool.
Click to expand...
While I get the idea behind the AI controlled party members and trusting them, dying to dumb bullshit like Mitsuru attempting Marin Karin for the umpteenth time instead of healing the protagonist is not fun, no matter how you cut it. It's like the thing with Walter using Agi on Minotaur in SMTIV. Every time you got Walter for that fight you would just reset because you know he was going to screw you over.

If anything they could have left the "trust your friends" thing to splitting them up on a floor and finding shit.
 
P

Pandora012

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Accessibility aside, the biggest issue for me is tone. The atmosphere, humor and writing style of the PS2 era is completely lost, and the differences between mainline SMT and Persona in those departments decrease with each new game.
Click to expand...

This has been my issue. It's like slowly but surely SMT is losing it's identity. That said, I'm still on the SMT bandwagon, though I'll just be complaining about the good ole days.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
So, about that extra week they put into Record Breaker. I've complained about the pacing of the story a few pages ago and how certain plot points get beaten into the fucking ground
"where is Yamato? Where is Saiduq? Where is Yamato? Where is Saiduq? Where is Yamato? Where is Saiduq?"
but fortunately it does improve in the second half.

Apocalypse though... It's the first time I can say I'm actually disappointed with a SMT game.
It's painfully obvious that it's aiming for a different demographic and it loses all the nuance and gravitas typical of SMT in the process.
I've seen comparisons with Persona but it only wishes it had a cast and story half as good as any Persona game.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Dragon1893 said:
So, about that extra week they put into Record Breaker. I've complained about the pacing of the story a few pages ago and how certain plot points get beaten into the fucking ground
"where is Yamato? Where is Saiduq? Where is Yamato? Where is Saiduq? Where is Yamato? Where is Saiduq?"
but fortunately it does improve in the second half.

Apocalypse though... It's the first time I can say I'm actually disappointed with a SMT game.
It's painfully obvious that it's aiming for a different demographic and it loses all the nuance and gravitas typical of SMT in the process.
I've seen comparisons with Persona but it only wishes it had a cast and story half as good as any Persona game.
Click to expand...
I think Apocalypse had excellent gameplay, better than SMTIV. While not Nocturne levels, it was pretty damn impressive how much they improved the battles.

I love how many demons with some kind of unique mechanic like Innanna there were.

The healer from Nocturne coming back was a nice throwback. The storyline was not as good as SMTIV's, but definitely had it's moments.
Asahi's brutal death was unexpected and well executed,
although I totally saw it coming that she would be back in the egg since Shesha literally said in the same scene that everyone that died would reincarnate there.

Regarding Record Breaker, I never finished the second week. Pretty sure I was on the final battle (
Canopus with all the points leading to the different parts.
), but just got frustrated with it and I think another game distracted me.
 
P

Pandora012

Member
Hylian7 said:
Regarding Record Breaker, I never finished the second week. Pretty sure I was on the final battle (
Canopus with all the points leading to the different parts.
), but just got frustrated with it and I think another game distracted me.
Click to expand...

What? You need to finish it! If only so you can listen to the awesome boss music.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
Hylian7 said:
I think Apocalypse had excellent gameplay, better than SMTIV. While not Nocturne levels, it was pretty damn impressive how much they improved the battles.

I love how many demons with some kind of unique mechanic like Innanna there were.

The healer from Nocturne coming back was a nice throwback. The storyline was not as good as SMTIV's, but definitely had it's moments.
Asahi's brutal death was unexpected and well executed,
although I totally saw it coming that she would be back in the egg since Shesha literally said in the same scene that everyone that died would reincarnate there.

Regarding Record Breaker, I never finished the second week. Pretty sure I was on the final battle (
Canopus with all the points leading to the different parts.
), but just got frustrated with it and I think another game distracted me.
Click to expand...

Sure, the gameplay is great but that's not what I was talking about, the story is completely forgettable, I've played most games under the SMT umbrella and this was the very first time a story and cast in the franchise did absolutely nothing for me. And I loved SMTIV's story.
 
M

marmoka

Banned
I found some info about the Megaten Special. I wasn't a dream after all.

TGS 2017 ‘Megaten Special’ Live Stream Announced

Atlus has announced that a number of live streams will be held during Tokyo Game Show 2017, on the 23rd and the 24th.

The first of these live shows will be a “Megaten Special,” to be held on September 23rd, from 1:00 PM to 5:00 PM JST.

Live Stream Content
  • Shin Megami Tensei Series Play Back: Playthroughs of the older numbered titles in the Shin Megami Tensei series.
  • Megaten Radio: Memories and messages related to the Shin Megami Tensei series can be submitted by viewers through Twitter, and will be read aloud during the show.
  • Introduction of the newest title: Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey Redux.
  • Shin Megami Tensei Series 25th Anniversary goods and events information.
Click to expand...

I hope they give some info about HD Project. And a new surprise as well.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
marmoka said:
I found some info about the Megaten Special. I wasn't a dream after all.

TGS 2017 ‘Megaten Special’ Live Stream Announced



I hope they give some info about HD Project. And a new surprise as well.
Click to expand...
Sweet, I hope we learn more about that Switch game then.

Curious if the crazy predictions that the petals and demons like the Archangels being Kaneko versions again really meant that Kaneko way back for this one. I doubt it though.
 
S

Sallokin

Member
Got my copy of Kazuma Kaneko V this afternoon. As expected it's the Dark, Neutral, and Others from Devil Summoner, along with the expository pages.

The Others section includes Kyouji, Lei, Victor et. al. and some of the other non-aligned characters. Overall it's just as nice as the rest in the series. I'm glad they're bringing them out a little faster than in previous years. I wonder when we'll get vol. 6.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Sallokin said:
Got my copy of Kazuma Kaneko V this afternoon. As expected it's the Dark, Neutral, and Others from Devil Summoner, along with the expository pages.

The Others section includes Kyouji, Lei, Victor et. al. and some of the other non-aligned characters. Overall it's just as nice as the rest in the series. I'm glad they're bringing them out a little faster than in previous years. I wonder when we'll get vol. 6.
Click to expand...

I got a notification from DHL (
sick.gif
) today that mine is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I'm excited to see it.

I wonder how soon we would get Kaz VI as well. I remember months ago, they originally just announced Kaz IV, containing Devil Summoner content, and then months later announced that it would split into Kaz IV and V.
 
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