Support NeoGAF

[uncleniccius]

They should focus on the EU version for WiiU, and then probably port to next gen.

Porting a game that is, by all accounts
, great, is only going to help sales.. Especially in the long term.

 

[Sendou]

IMPatiently waiting to snap this up on Wii U when it gets a release in Japan.
Living in Europe but owning a Jap Wii u.

I just realized this is probably the first time ever when a Japanese Nintendo home console is the worst out of bunch. Purely speaking about the quality and quantity of games available. Hardly anything worthwhile coming out in Japan not coming out in west (inb4 Fatal Frame but that is too coming to west maybe probably hopefully) while Japan misses out on bunch of indie games or gets them later.

 

[beril]

Games on Steam tend to not be front loaded at all, and I'm certain this isn't. During release day it barely cracked the top 10 sellers due to the Summer Sale overshadowing it, there's a whole lot more potential purchasers out there that the game has to reach.

Compared to eShop, in my experience, yes it is very frontloaded

 

[Scalpel Knight]

This game is excellent. I bought it on Wii U and loved it so much that I got it on 3DS also. Hoping for continued success by YC Games.

 

[CANLI]

I just realized this is probably the first time ever when a Japanese Nintendo home console is the worst out of bunch. Purely speaking about the quality and quantity of games available. Hardly anything worthwhile coming out in Japan not coming out in west (inb4 Fatal Frame but that is too coming to west maybe probably hopefully) while Japan misses out on bunch of indie games or gets them later.

Yeah, US indie support is nearly at zero on Jap Wii U. However, I'm spending a lot of time at Taiko U and Puyo Puyo tetris
Please Yacht Club, I'm sure that if you translate it to japanese, thousands of japanese people will buy your game (80-90% will surely be on 3ds, just see the great success of Gunman Clive there)

 

[Sendou]

Please Yacht Club, I'm sure that if you translate it to japanese, thousands of japanese people will buy your game (80-90% will surely be on 3ds, just see the great success of Gunman Clive there)

They will

And we still have lots of markets to release the game in – Australia, Europe, Japan…

 

[flowsnake]

Compared to eShop, in my experience, yes it is very frontloaded

According to a site which tracks this, Gunman Clive hasn't been on Steam for very long and has only been discounted once (for one day in the summer sale?).

Since its already a very cheap game, a small discount and being a daily deal would probably give a nice bump purely from visibility.

 

[Schlomo]

I'd love to get it on Wii U, but I don't think I'll be able to resist Steam sales or Humble Bundles until it's out in Europe.

 

[Poimandres]

And that matters... how? Yeah, the number of copies sold through Steam will skyrocket, but if it's with a 75% discount while the Wii U version continues to sell well with its launch price or at a smaller discount, it could still end up making tons or not too much less money than the Steam version. I.e. if Steam sells it under 5$, it would have to sell over 260k copies to make a million dollars, while the Wii U copy could sell 200k copies less and still make ~the same amount of money.

Okay, let's put it this way: long term I expect the game to make more money via PC sales than Nintendo platforms. Maybe we will never know.

The percentage breakdown is interesting and somewhat surprising, but the primary takeaway is that, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, third-party/indie games can sell on Nintendo platforms, and there's an audience there that is gagging for good content.

See this is more reasonable. Yes, third party/indie games can sell well on Nintendo platforms. I'm not trying to downplay the sales, just trying to provide some perspective for people who seem to think Nintendo sales embarass Steam sales. It's worth taking into consideration that steam Indies sell better on sale, AND that the game hasn't launched in a lot of territories on Nintendo platforms. I'm just making a prediction about long term sales.

 

[CANLI]

They will

Thank you for the information.

If Nintendo was the publisher, it would be great but Nintendo as a publisher isn't as good as in Eur/US territory. May be Circle Entertainment or Intergrow.

 

[fierrotlepou]

Too bad they still haven't released it in Europe for the Wii U and the 3DS.

 

[Datschge]

Too bad they still haven't released it in Europe for the Wii U and the 3DS.

http://yachtclubgames.com/2014/07/shovel-knight-international-status/

 

[Porcile]

Generate interest in a Nintendo version of a game and it sell well. It's not rocket science really. Very happy for this game.

 

[Birathen]

Bought it on Steam and played through it once. Waiting for EU WiiU release, then Ill play it some more

 

[zackmorris]

They said they're going to port it to basically anything where it will control well.

I know, but it seems like it will take a little longer than I had hoped. I'm still holding out hope for sometime this year...

 

[sechsterangriff]

Is there any indication if like other indie games this is a timed exclusive?

 

[Oni Link 666]

I bought it for both 3DS and Wii U. I played the Wii U version all the way through, because the Pro controller is so much better than a 3DS. I'll get back to the 3DS one whenever.

 

[mclem]

Is there any indication if like other indie games this is a timed exclusive?

There's been no mention of forced exclusivity at all; it's simply exclusive to Nintendo platforms and Steam right now because that's what they felt they could manage to implement at the outset. They've said a few times that they're perfectly happy to port it to any system that they feel could control it adequately.

So I guess it's effectively a timed exclusive, but only due to the limitations of their resources.

 

[Oni Link 666]

Good for them, I'm waiting on a sale because I'm not a huge Wayforward fan so I'm wary of such a steep price.

This is much better than any WF game and isn't really like any WF except Duck Tales, but WF didn't make the original Duck Tales. Shovel Knight is like a bunch of NES games thrown together into a delicious NES smoothie. It has the over world map of Super Mario Bros 3, the towns of Zelda 2, combat elements from Duck Tales and Zelda 2, level structure similar to Castlevania, powers like Mega Man, graphics reminiscent of Wizards and Warriors, Faxanadu, Atyanax, Ghosts and Goblins, and more.

 

[Sify64]

I know, but it seems like it will take a little longer than I had hoped. I'm still holding out hope for sometime this year...

Yeah, it will take longer... I would say the first half of next year is more likely considering they still have to work on a lot of the stretch goals.

 

[rjc571]

Compared to eShop, in my experience, yes it is very frontloaded

Steam sales are front loaded when it comes to full price games, but see massive increases as soon as they're discounted. Shovel Knight will pick up a ton of sales even at a 33% discount. Your game wouldn't benefit much from discounts since it's already so cheap. Mutant Mudds is a better indicator of how much their sales can expect to increase when they go on sale.

 

[SkeptiMism]

I know, but it seems like it will take a little longer than I had hoped. I'm still holding out hope for sometime this year...

Very unlikely. They still have to release the game in other areas, and they have a lot of stretch goals to fill (a lot of content coming to the game). If they're decent they will do those before starting to work on any other version.

Steam sales are front loaded when it comes to full price games, but see massive increases as soon as they're discounted. Shovel Knight will pick up a ton of sales even at a 33% discount. Your game wouldn't benefit much from discounts since it's already so cheap. Mutant Mudds is a better indicator of how much their sales can expect to increase when they go on sale.

Just before anyone says lol to the numbers of that tweet, that game launched during the Steam holidays sale if I remember correctly, and it did so practically without any publicity whatsoever.
But yeah, I see what you meant. Percentually that's a massive change.

That is the problem with steam. Unless there is massive hype around the game, AAA titles then people just wait for the inevitable sales. This happens more with premium indie titles.

Not quite. If the game comes out during a massive sale, then yeah it won't sell. Especially if nobody knows about it. A game doesn't need massive hype to sell for decent amounts on Steam, but it does need some marketing or word of mouth.

 

[Exile20]

Steam sales are front loaded when it comes to full price games, but see massive increases as soon as they're discounted. Shovel Knight will pick up a ton of sales even at a 33% discount. Your game wouldn't benefit much from discounts since it's already so cheap. Mutant Mudds is a better indicator of how much their sales can expect to increase when they go on sale.

That is the problem with steam. Unless there is massive hype around the game, AAA titles then people just wait for the inevitable sales. This happens more with premium indie titles.

 

[thefro]

I know, but it seems like it will take a little longer than I had hoped. I'm still holding out hope for sometime this year...

I would guess 2nd half of 2015/early 2016 for the ports... they have:
Europe/Australia/Japan Wii U/3DS releases
Mac/Linux release
All the promised stretch goal content (~1 year of work)

Those are all things they promised as part of the Kickstarter.

 

[wildfire]

I'm kind of confused why people are shocked at the fact that a well-known indie project did well on the Wii U. You have other lesser-known projects exceeding profitability in less than a week's time.

Indie stuff (especially platformers) has been doing well on the Wii U for quite a while now.

This isn't common knowledge. In fact I still question your assertion.

 

[Effect]

Saying "wait for the sales" isn't good. Steam has conditioned people to not buy games at full price from the big AAA budget title to the small indie platformer. Sure they might sell more copies at sale prices but does that matter when they're making pennies per copy at that point as a result of the massive drop in price?

 

[wrowa]

That is the problem with steam. Unless there is massive hype around the game, AAA titles then people just wait for the inevitable sales. This happens more with premium indie titles.

Well, there's much more competition, that's for sure. Mutant Mudds is just another indie platformer among hundreds on Steam - and quite frankly, it's even far away from being among the best.

 

[patapuf]

That is the problem with steam. Unless there is massive hype around the game, AAA titles then people just wait for the inevitable sales. This happens more with premium indie titles.

You don't need to be AAA to have massive hype. Divnity: OS released during the sale and sold a ton even after the release discount was gone. There are plenty of games (some early Access) that blow up out of nowhere.

2D pixel platformers though, are one of the harder genres to get noticed in, there's literally hundreds of them on steam. The fact that shovel knight did speaks of ist quality (and it had a Kickstarter kampaign too.)

 

[SparkTR]

Saying "wait for the sales" isn't good. Steam has conditioned people to not buy games at full price from the big AAA budget title to the small indie platformer. Sure they might sell more copies at sale prices but does that matter when they're making pennies per copy at that point as a result of the massive drop in price?

Valve's data showed that the opposite is happening, at least back when EA made a big fuss over the whole 'devaluation' of games thing. When a niche $40 trucking sim can sell over 100k copies in under a month, and Divinity can sell 250k copies in two weeks I doubt people are buying less games due to price. You just have to get noticed. I'm not sure of the significance, but the from what I've played the quality of indie games on PC pretty much eclipses everywhere else, on a platform where Divinity, Elite Dangerous and Age of Wonders III are considered 'indie' you need to really stand out because they're basically mid-tier titles.

 

[sörine]

This isn't common knowledge. In fact I still question your assertion.

There's definitely a public data gap. Virtually every dev who's spoken on the issue has been quite positive regarding their eShop performances (Frozenbyte, Shin'en, Nicalis, Enjoyup, Image & Form, Two Tribes, Wayforward, Renegade Kid, Vblank, Neko, Black Forest, etc, etc) but almost never with any hard data to back that up. The only devs we've ever really gotten that from are Bertil and now Yacht Club.

We've even got indie devs in this thread surprised at how good the sales are.

 

[Datschge]

Saying "wait for the sales" isn't good. Steam has conditioned people to not buy games at full price from the big AAA budget title to the small indie platformer.

So I guess the best approach on Steam should be releasing a title at somewhat of a premium price and use the headroom for often appearing sales that would drop the price to the level originally intended internally.

That's kind of botched already for Shovel Knight though considering it's already cheaper on Steam than on the other platforms. Missed opportunity.

 

[zhorkat]

Comparing the charts it seems that unsurprisingly the steam sales are much more front loaded. In a few months WiiU and 3ds will probably way ahead, barring a massive sale

Steam sales go from 38% in the first week to 37% in the first month. Wii U percentage stays constant while 3DS drops 2%. The missing 3% are then made up by Humble and GOG which I suppose didn't have large enough numbers to matter for the first week. What makes you say that Steam is much more front-loaded than eShop in this situation?

EDIT: Bah. I just noticed that the first week excludes Kickstarter while the first month includes it. Removing Kickstarter sales from the 1st month or adding them to the 1st week certainly changes things.

 

[KingSnake]

Some interesting comments from Curve Studios (Stealth Inc 2, The Swapper, MouseCraft, Qora):

The sales of Shovel Knight are really interesting, especially as an answer to 'Why are you making Nintendo games?!' -

The game has done nearly as well on the Wii as on Steam. Less competition, more store space, more support. Why NOT make Nintendo games?

When we announce a Nintendo game, we have the Nintendo press banging on our doors. With other platforms, we're often a drop in the ocean.

People asking if we could do the same post about our sales - we're not allowed to share Sony sales numbers publically.

But we might do something about the PC sales of Stealth at some point, when we have time to make fancy infographics!

 

[DirtyLarry]

Double dipped myself with the WiiU and 3DS version. Am saving the 3DS version for a rainy day, but had no issue spending the money again to support such a small team and such a great game.
Hope they reach that goal of a million sales. They absolutely should.

 

[Bomber Bob]

I'm so proud i've backed this on KS

 

[AwShucks]

Congrats to them. It's the funnest game I've played in a long time and my favorite game of the year easily.

 

[Exile20]

Not quite. If the game comes out during a massive sale, then yeah it won't sell. Especially if nobody knows about it. A game doesn't need massive hype to sell for decent amounts on Steam, but it does need some marketing or word of mouth.

Well, there's much more competition, that's for sure. Mutant Mudds is just another indie platformer among hundreds on Steam - and quite frankly, it's even far away from being among the best.

You don't need to be AAA to have massive hype. Divnity: OS released during the sale and sold a ton even after the release discount was gone. There are plenty of games (some early Access) that blow up out of nowhere.

2D pixel platformers though, are one of the harder genres to get noticed in, there's literally hundreds of them on steam. The fact that shovel knight did speaks of ist quality (and it had a Kickstarter kampaign too.)

Maybe I should not have put "massive" and you are right that there are some games that just blow up out of no where but those are few, arent they?

Some interesting comments from Curve Studios (Stealth Inc 2, The Swapper, MouseCraft, Qora):

Well I will be there for Swapper and Stealth Inc 2 day one for sure on Wii U.

 

[Exile20]

Double post

 

[ThatRandomCliff]

I beat the game a week ago or so. Loved every second of it. I can't wait for the DLC stuff.

 

[inm8num2]

Very interesting. I love seeing sales stats, since developers seem to rarely release them in such a fashion.

 

[Deadbeat]

Well, there's much more competition, that's for sure. Mutant Mudds is just another indie platformer among hundreds on Steam - and quite frankly, it's even far away from being among the best.

I just went to the steam page and it seems the reviews are not all that hot. Doesnt look all that special either. I never understood the mentality that putting your game on steam earns you free money.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

This isn't common knowledge. In fact I still question your assertion.

That's fine, believe what you want.

Reaching out to some smaller indie devs goes a long way, however.

 

[SerTapTap]

Yeah, US indie support is nearly at zero on Jap Wii U. However, I'm spending a lot of time at Taiko U and Puyo Puyo tetris
Please Yacht Club, I'm sure that if you translate it to japanese, thousands of japanese people will buy your game (80-90% will surely be on 3ds, just see the great success of Gunman Clive there)

This is interesting...do Sony or Nintendo do anything to help get us Indies get localized for jp? If not that's a gap in both libraries back at their home base.

 

[Pachinko]

This game is utterly fantastic stuff so it deserves every penny it makes. Hopefully the sales success means that everyone on the team can take a 30K bonus out of the profits to make up for all their hard work. By my own math I estimate they must be close to 3 million in revenue but I don't have a clue at how much of that ends up going to steam or nintendo for that matter. I'm assuming it's around 10% off the top though so that still leaves them with well over 2 million dollars.

I look forward to a sequel of some kind, I'd like to see them tackle a 16 bit homage next - Super Shovel Knight. If the first game was mostly a homage to 8 bit megaman games than super shovel knight could be a homage to megaman X. Whereas the first one had some small aspects clearly inspired by duck tales with a little bit of chip and dale / castlevania this new one could pull from Super castlevania or contra 3.

Either way, I want to see these guys make another game, sequel or otherwise.

 

[wrowa]

This is interesting...do Sony or Nintendo do anything to help get us Indies get localized for jp? If not that's a gap in both libraries back at their home base.

You can't publish in Japan without a Japanese adress. So, if you aren't from Japan you really need someone to work with if you want to release your indie game over there. Not to mention that English-only games might work in the different European countries, but without a Japanese localization you're lost in Japan. It's a difficult market to crack from the outside.

 

[SkeptiMism]

This game is utterly fantastic stuff so it deserves every penny it makes. Hopefully the sales success means that everyone on the team can take a 30K bonus out of the profits to make up for all their hard work. By my own math I estimate they must be close to 3 million in revenue but I don't have a clue at how much of that ends up going to steam or nintendo for that matter. I'm assuming it's around 10% off the top though so that still leaves them with well over 2 million dollars.

I look forward to a sequel of some kind, I'd like to see them tackle a 16 bit homage next - Super Shovel Knight. If the first game was mostly a homage to 8 bit megaman games than super shovel knight could be a homage to megaman X. Whereas the first one had some small aspects clearly inspired by duck tales with a little bit of chip and dale / castlevania this new one could pull from Super castlevania or contra 3.

Either way, I want to see these guys make another game, sequel or otherwise.

The industry standard cut taken by the platform holder is 30%.

But anyway, yeah they've actually talked about how they'd like to tackle various other styles. They mentioned at least 64 bit.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Maybe if Mutant Mudds was good it would have sold more. It's a very bland game on a platform with tons of bland pixel games.

On Nintendo consoles there's a lot less to choose from.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Are they planning on putting this on other platforms?, does anyone know?

 

[Red Liquorice]

I'd love to contribute to those sales figures.

/sadeuropean

 

[Suite Pee]

Mudds' store presentation doesn't do much to make it look better than all the phone ports coming to PC.

I didn't even know it was on PC until I got it in a Humble Bundle.

It's too bad Shovel Knight was released during the Summer Sale, but I think it could more than double its PC sales during the winter sale.