Holy shit these steam sales are terrible! Any idea on what it sold on other platforms?
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Shovel Knight sales breakdown
- Thread starter Oni Link 666
- Start date
Holy shit these steam sales are terrible! Any idea on what it sold on other platforms?
Don't exact numbers but we know it sold by far the most copies on 3DS, and its Wii U sales were greater than its combined PC/PSN/Iphone sales. It also has 6000 ratings on the 3DS eShop, which is more than 4 times as many as Shovel Knight (but this doesn't mean it sold 4 times as many copies; games that have been available for a long time tend to get rated by a higher percentage of their userbase).
I had been meaning to buy this game since release and finally grabbed the 3DS version last night. The 3D is really stunning. I will double dip for the WiiU version soon enough and probably eventually get it on Steam as well. It blows my mind that anyone could read that blog entry and come away saying "I'll wait for a sale." This tiny studio is doing things differently than
anyone else and definitely any of the big guys. They deserve the rewards. Buy your AAA titles on sale. If you have to, wait until they're extra on sale to justify to yourself buying this one at full price. I look forward to peering behind the curtain more and more as this game matures. It's amazing for a studio to be this open about things.
nearly
yet the wii U outsold every other platform combined, i guess Nintendo fanboys are really starving
don't hurt me I love my wii U, you can search me in miiverse, nerektw is the id 
Nothing official, but they've said they would be happy to do so. It's a matter of resources more than anything. I imagine all the promised DLC and releasing the game in other territories is their first priority, as it should be, and then after that they'll focus on some additional ports.
I know I'd love to buy the game, but I don't yet have a Wii U and buying a PS4 is my immediate next gaming investment. Sooner or later, I'm sure I'll be able to play this.
The biggest selling point is the 3D. It really benefits a lot from it. It's still an excellent game in 2D, but it doesn't really stand out from the millions of other 2D indie platformers on Steam in an obvious way.
Yeah I prefer to get games on PC but Mudds.. I didnt even see the point as I remember seeing how it was very 3D focused on the 3DS. It doesn't surprise me it didn't do gangbusters on PC.
Aveyn Knight
Member
Fantastic news for the developers ^^
I'm interested in grabbing the 3DS version when it arrives in Europe.
I'm interested in grabbing the 3DS version when it arrives in Europe.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, the 3ds sales seem positive, but I wish the dev would share some exact numbers.
Why would you ignore kickstarter though? Those would all have been potential buyers if they did not already own the game through the KS. Which would have made the PC side higher.
In addition to that it's not trying to be funny or attempting to make fun of these games which is a problem I believe has been said in regard to some indie games that try make retro games. This one is treated as it really came from that era, funny on its own merits, and feels like it belongs along side those games. Which makes playing the game that much more enjoyable.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
yet the wii U outsold every other platform combined, i guess Nintendo fanboys are really starving
don't hurt me I love my wii U, you can search me in miiverse, nerektw is the id
I wonder why it never came out in Europe on Wii U then. Not held up from what I remember, just not even bothering.
Red Liquorice
Member
I could, but I want to play it on 3DS.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Are you talking anout mudds ot SK?
To be fair, I don't think you just need a PC, you really need a good controller to do it justice. I tried the usual 360 controller and really wasn't impressed, but then I swapped to the Dualshock 4 and OHMYGOD.
Mutant Mudds isn't that great of a game, but ouch. It's better suited on the 3DS than on the PC (or any other console, really).
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Saying "wait for the sales" is good because for every game someone would have bought at full price but waits for a sale to buy, there are also dozens of games they wouldn't have bought at all that they're buying on sale, and while every dev likes to think their game is part of the former group, it's dramatically more likely they're part of the latter group.
Mutant Mudds Deluxe doesn't seem to be out in Europe on any platform other than PC.
I definitely think there needs to be some balance or else you get into the whole race to the bottom mentality that is plaguing mobile games.
I do not. I have a MacBook Pro, although even that I've never attempted to do any gaming on. I suppose if I really needed to, I could eventually get the planned Mac port and figure out how to connect a controller.
All in all, I hate the varying degrees of hoops needed to jump through for some computer gaming. I love the console experience.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The balance is fewer people releasing games. Steam gets 50 new releases a week. Until 35-40 of those devs admit defeat and exit the business, available consumer spend is going to be spread mighty thin in general.
They'll occasionally cherry-pick games to localise for the Japanese audience, but they're mostly left to find a publisher for themselves. There are small JP publishers that make a business of localising western indies for Japan--Arc System Works, Intergrow and Circle Entertainment are very active on that front when it comes to Nintendo platforms, for example--and a lot of these indie games tend to do pretty well, especially on 3DS.
People (okay, me) complain about the selection on the eShop over here, but Japan has it so much worse.
8-4 Games publishing Shovel Knight in Japan is such a feel good idea. It's perfect.
MDSVeritas
Member
That's awesome to hear about how well it's selling, I'm super happy to see an awesome game like that get support! It's also pretty cool to see the system break down, and the fact that it's basically in thirds. Good to see support coming from all around.
The one thing I don't get is the original kickstarter rate. They explain that even with $328,000 they weren't even close to funding their development plan which would reach $1,440,000 by their estimates. But their kickstarter goal was $75,000. So not only was the amount they received not even 1/3 of their overall dev plan budget, but the amount they originally said they needed was 1/4 of that! I can understand some new expenses come on and such, but to be honest, what were they planning to do with $75,000 and that amount of work and time needed? Seems like the Kickstarter was considerably under what the development actually called for.
The one thing I don't get is the original kickstarter rate. They explain that even with $328,000 they weren't even close to funding their development plan which would reach $1,440,000 by their estimates. But their kickstarter goal was $75,000. So not only was the amount they received not even 1/3 of their overall dev plan budget, but the amount they originally said they needed was 1/4 of that! I can understand some new expenses come on and such, but to be honest, what were they planning to do with $75,000 and that amount of work and time needed? Seems like the Kickstarter was considerably under what the development actually called for.
PreyingShark
Member
The $1,440,000 wasn't their planned budget ever. It was more of an "under ideal circumstances" sort of thing to contrast with reality.
I know it's odd if you are only used to the console environment, but there are these things called "competition" and "market pressure" that exist in the steam marketplace. What's even more odd are the people that seem to think it's a negative for consumers to benefit from these forces by acquiring games at prices that are more beneficial to the consumer. But by far the oddest thing is the fact that many developers go on to proclaim how much more long term money they made when they offered their games at a greatly reduced price for a limited time.
As far as I can tell, everyone seems to win on steam unless your product just isn't that interesting to the people that buy games on Steam. In these cases the much smaller pool of competition on consoles may make a huge difference in consumer interest. Look at the Mutant Mudds quote:
Even the 10% discount massively increased the sales of his game. In the end the main limitation was the game itself. When you compare it to the games available on Steam, it's just not really that interesting, and the sales of the game reflect that.
Dreamwriter
Member
Right, but they had to really scrimp at $328,000. One wonders what they would have done had they just got the bare minimum $75k - according to the Kickstarter, everything above $75k were stretch goals, but this article says they decided to wait and use the budget from final game sales to pay for the stretch goals, since they needed the full $328k (and then some) to make the base game. This seems like it was a big risk, and could have been another huge Kickstarter failure.
I'm working with two other people on an indie game, and for us three even the $95k we are going to be asking for is really, really pushing the minimum we need to survive while making the game.
It was likely renting an office instead of working out of their apartments. When they surpassed the kickstarter goal and reached stretch goals, I remember it being mentioned that they wouldn't have been able to rent office space with the original amount.
Actually I just realized that the 10% off was a launch discount, so those numbers are quite misleading since most of the 10% off buyers would have bought it without a launch discount anyway. But the 50% discount still resulted in them selling three times as many copies as they had at full or almost full price.
Isn't the game 15 bucks everywhere?
I.e.: 15$ on Steam (US), eShop (US), GOG, Yachtclub (the developer).
That sounds like people are buying a game, just because it is on sale, and not because they are interested in it.
I am a consumer, and I want game makers to be able to make a profit,
so they can make more games, or spend more money on trying to make better games.
I want a successfull game maker to be able to make so much money, that their next game can tank, and they are still healthy financially
But of course if this is true ...
... then I may have nothing to worry about
The problem with this approach is that I think it can drive DECENT game developers out of the business (and I'm not talking about Mutant Mudds). Taken to an extreme, it leads to AAA developers producing generic, "safe" games, and I don't think people want that either.
I would like to think there can exist an approach that lies between safe AAA games and sales driving developers out of business -- maybe middle ground prices? In the long run I guess we'll see what happens on Steam.
It may seem pro-consumer for a game to be $1 or free, but in the long run the hidden cost can be alternate, obnoxious monetization techniques (microtransactions, paid DLC), or games simply not being created because the developers cannot make a living.
The retro 2D thing has not only been done to death, but the games keep on coming and coming. Unless you have a hook like the recently released 1001 Spikes, Shovel Knight or Crypt of the Necrodancer you will probably find your retro 2D game struggling to find an audience. The main thing that quote does is show just how much power Steam sales have even for even the least popular games.
See, this sort of thing is a huge problem in and of itself--people will crucify any KS proposal that dares to include basic living/working expenses as part of the total cost of the project, no matter how transparent or thorough their proposal may be, and that ridiculous attitude encourages devs to post minimum funding goals far lower than is truly necessary to make a decent game under decent working conditions.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...w_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/207934/We_just_made_our_income_to_date_again_in_just_8_hours.php
The only developers that have to worry are the ones that fail to garner the attention of gamers, and that can hardly be blamed on Steam sales or the lack there of.
Dreamwriter
Member
Yeah, the hook is that it's like a lost NES game that was recently discovered, rather than throwing in some pixel art and chip tunes and calling it "retro". Shovel Knight could really have been an old NES game.
The hook, aside from the pedigree of the developers (including the later addition of Manami Matsumae) was "faux-8-bit done right" which happens far less often than you might think. A lot of people seem to think there's a collective fatigue in regards to these types of games, but in reality people seem to just be tired of the bad ones and are perfectly happy to play the good ones.
RE: Mutant Mudds, that game got absolutely glowing reviews and praise when it originally came out on 3DS, so I think the devs may have thought their reputation preceded them a little when they released on other platforms, which definitely wasn't the case (and was reiterated by the colossal failure of their later KS proposal). We don't even know how "successful" it was on 3DS, truth be told.
Why is this game exclusive again? Was the first one on WiiU?
And grats to YCG! Game is amazing!
No, but the devs (Curve Studios) have a good working relationship with Nintendo and have already developed two Nintendo-published digital games (Fluidity for WiiWare, Fluidity: Spin Cycle for 3DS eShop), and they know from their experience as a developer/publisher for Vita that even platforms with relatively small install bases can prove to be very profitable if you cater to the existing niche.
Is it? I stand corrected then.
Boss Riovane
Member
So far the only game I've downloaded on my 3ds. Good to know.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Steam sales are front loaded when it comes to full price games, but see massive increases as soon as they're discounted. Shovel Knight will pick up a ton of sales even at a 33% discount. Your game wouldn't benefit much from discounts since it's already so cheap. Mutant Mudds is a better indicator of how much their sales can expect to increase when they go on sale.
There's a problem here:
There's much more competition on Steam than 3DS, not only in terms of offered titles but also in similar 2D indie games. Escape Goat is not on 3DS, They Bleed Pixels is not on 3DS, Bleed is not on 3DS and you can add a large etc of games. The other problem is pricing is more competitive but meanwhile in 3DS thanks to the curated premium priced setup from Nintendo an 10$ price range is acceptable (and lack of general offers help this), there isn't much indie 2D effort quality in lower prices on 3DS, meanwhile on Steam while 10$ is not a high price and all there are several similar games offered at much lower prices that will steal a lot of sales from you and will make these jumps on sales so high once you offer a discount.
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