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[Huff]

Yeah, I agree. $250 is still a ridiculous amount for a handheld system, IMO. I won't be getting a 3DS or a Vita until price drops. I do hope to get both eventually though, because the Vita is really surprising me with how good its looking, and the 3DS will have Paper Mario and the inevitable Pokemon game that I'll have to buy.

Nothing wrong with waiting. This hobby is expensive. I just wouldn't consider the vita ridiculously expensive.

 

[DiscoJer]

So the development cost of the Vita titles are the same as the PSP ones eh.

So I guess it's going to be really cheap to develop on the Vita?

Even if so, profit margins are going to be less. As he points out:

UMD had the definite advantage in terms of manufacturing costs. It's very low, and the turnaround time to manufacture is very short. It's as good as DVD or Blu-ray. But that's from the publisher standpoint.

A big reason the PSP got so much support was the dirt cheap cost of producing the media (and when something was an unexpected hit, they could order a lot more quickly)

 

[Kagari]

Yeah, I agree. $250 is still a ridiculous amount for a handheld system, IMO. I won't be getting a 3DS or a Vita until price drops. I do hope to get both eventually though, because the Vita is really surprising me with how good its looking, and the 3DS will have Paper Mario and the inevitable Pokemon game that I'll have to buy.

Same price most smart phones are with a plan, if not more.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

So the development cost of the Vita titles are the same as the PSP ones eh.

So I guess it's going to be really cheap to develop on the Vita?

Note that he specifically said one of their studio titles is near the same cost, so the real question is which title is he referring to?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Same price most smart phones are with a plan, if not more.

the vast majority of high end ones in the US are $199 with a plan. a few are lower, and the only ones i recall being higher in recent times were the Verizon LTE phones. many of them are also routinely heavily discounted ($0-$99) at various retailers and online outlets.

 

[thuway]

I wonder if AT*T will subsidize costs of the Vita. Fuck, I don't mind a 3G free Vita.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Yet again I called it. I said they'd be most likely selling it either for a tiny profit or less likely breaking even or a tiny loss.

Where are all the $350 and launching unprofitably people now?

they could both be right.


Yoshida could mean they aren't taking a loss on hardware, while Kaz could be counting the entire R&D budget, not just hardware and assembly costs.

I doubt R&D was high enough to cause them to not be profitable for 3 years. It's most likely a miscommunication error.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Edit: Holy crap, they're not selling at a loss or an even remotely large one?

It's probably just more Sony PR bullshit.

 

[Momo]

It's probably just more Sony PR bullshit.

I do not see how it can be beneficial in any way shape and form for them to say this. As consumers it wont make us buy more cause it's breaking even and they cannot lie to their shareholders.

 

[OneMoreQuestion]

Note that he specifically said one of their studio titles is near the same cost, so the real question is which title is he referring to?

Little Deviants, of course.

 

[KAL2006]

Same price most smart phones are with a plan, if not more.

But those smart phones don't have a 5" OLED screen and quad core processor, I personally think Vita is well worth $250 for what it is

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I just can't believe how big of a turnaround they have had at SCE since PS3. Vita strategy is the polar opposite - cheap, powerful, off the shelf hardware sold at or near break even, yielding a console that is easy and cheap to develop for.

I think new Sony could give Nintendo a big scare in the handheld market, especially given the tepid response by consumers. A lot of people I have spoken to have put their 3DS buying ambitions on hold to wait for Vita, regardless of how anecdotal that may be, I'm certain that Vita anticipation is damping 3DS sales.

 

[Ushojax]

As consumers it wont make us buy more cause it's breaking even and they cannot lie to their shareholders.

ahahaha

This PR guy gives a classic non-answer. All he says is that they are aiming to be profitable with the hardware.

 

[brain_stew]

But those smart phones don't have a 5" OLED screen and quad core processor, I personally think Vita is well worth $250 for what it is

That "quad core processor" is adding less than $5 to the cost of the machine compared to the dual A9s in modern phones. Any decent high end smartphone already ships with a 4.3" OLED or "retina class" LCD display, the difference isn't all that great.

 

[Rolf NB]

The way they keep waffling on this implies to me they're looking at breaking even or losing like $10-$20 and can't quite tell yet which it will be.

Their overall statement seems to be that they expect the business as a whole to be profitable from the start though.

Yeah, my thoughts pretty much. Currency exchange shit might also make them a bit cautious.

 

[XMonkey]

I don't buy it, but it means shit-all for us consumers in the end. $250 is a great price for all that tech.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

That "quad core processor" is adding less than $5 to the cost of the machine compared to the dual A9s in modern phones. Any decent high end smartphone already ships with a 4.3" OLED or "retina class" LCD display, the difference isn't all that great.

Sony's OLED screens are more expensive than the one's used in Samsung's Galaxy S 2, they are also superior. The iPhone 4 S-IPS screen is far, far cheaper than either of these, but it is also in different class, one of mediocrity.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

ahahaha

I think risking an SEC investigation is a terrible cost for pleasing a few fanboys. If Sony say they are breaking even, they are breaking even.

 

[brain_stew]

Sony's OLED screens are more expensive than the one's used in Samsung's Galaxy S 2, they are also superior. The iPhone 4 S-IPS screen is far, far cheaper than either of these, but it is also in different class, one of mediocrity.

More expensive than the old pentile design perhaps but the Galaxy S 2 doesn't use a pentile screen. Its a more expensive part than any screen used in a phone, sure, but the gap between it and high end phone displays isn't nearly as large as some seem to suggest.

I wasn't talking about the iPhone 4 either, more the qHD 4/4.3" LCD displays that are now common.

 

[Parl]

I think new Sony could give Nintendo a big scare in the handheld market, especially given the tepid response by consumers. A lot of people I have spoken to have put their 3DS buying ambitions on hold to wait for Vita, regardless of how anecdotal that may be, I'm certain that Vita anticipation is damping 3DS sales.

That's probably true as it always the case with new system unveilings, but Reggie says that 3DS has benefited from an upswing since E3 - an upswing from very low sales, but so far, it seems that 3DS's main competition is lack of software and price, rather than Vita anticipation.

 

[TwIsTeD]

3 years to be profitable due to R&D and Marketing Costs

And $250 is not alot of money, especially for what this device will do at launch and over the years, and next to the 3DS which Im still enjoying makes it look like a toy (is this really happening again haha)

I'm sorry but as someone who has been working for almost 13 years manage your money, get a better job, or sell some stuff but dont expect an unreasonable price on next gen hardware

 

[zomgbbqftw]

More expensive than the old pentile design perhaps but the Galaxy S 2 doesn't use a pentile screen. Its a more expensive part than any screen used in a phone, sure, but the gap between it and high end phone displays isn't nearly as large as some seem to suggest.

I wasn't talking about the iPhone 4 either, more the qHD 4/4.3" LCD displays that are now common.

It's more expensive than the new Super AMOLED+ used in the Galaxy S2, it's also better quality, 1m:1 native contrast, 0.1ms response time. It is the same tech that powers their XEL-1 prototype OLED tabletop TV.

When you said Retina, I figured Apple because Retina is Apple's branding for high pixel density screens. Retina is not a type of screen, just branding to please their legion of fanboys so that they think Apple is superior to every other type of screen.

Seriously, I was talking to someone about Vita, and he asked whether it had a Retina display, I said no and he replied, well iPhone is obviously better then. :S

 

[zomgbbqftw]

That's probably true as it always the case with new system unveilings, but Reggie says that 3DS has benefited from an upswing since E3 - an upswing from very low sales, but so far, it seems that 3DS's main competition is lack of software and price, rather than Vita anticipation.

Well I don't think Xbox or PS3 have seen any effect on buying due to the WiiU reveal because it was so very confused and generated no hype or buzz. That Vita has generated so much buzz this far out from launch is definitely a good sign for Sony, and a speaks volumes about the quality of reveal that Sony gave Vita vs the one Nintendo gave WiiU...

 

[Durante]

It's more expensive than the new Super AMOLED+ used in the Galaxy S2, it's also better quality, 1m:1 native contrast, 0.1ms response time. It is the same tech that powers their XEL-1 prototype OLED tabletop TV.

That first number is a stupid measurement. For all realistic intents and purposes, all OLED screens simply have native (infinite) contrast. Regarding the response time, that's also something that's inherent in OLED technology. Really, the only ways to improve image quality on the Galaxy S2 display that I can think of are higher maximum brightness, better color reproduction and higher pixel density.

That "quad core processor" is adding less than $5 to the cost of the machine compared to the dual A9s in modern phones.

I don't believe that. You can't just account for the transistors and call it a day. More cores need more peak power and more bandwidth which in turn cause additional board complexity. it's not nearly as expensive as some people imagine, but it's more than $5.

 

[IonicSnake]

Maybe Kaz ment that they will get back the money they spent on R&D within 3 years.

 

[zoukka]

250 units is just crazy. You cannot fight it by stating that smartphones are expensive. If you alread own a 500 unit smartphone (that does everything and more your handheld console ever can), it's a ridiculous price to just play more console-like games on the go. And you need to carry two bricks with you.

 

[MightyKAC]

250 units is just crazy. You cannot fight it by stating that smartphones are expensive. If you alread own a 500 unit smartphone (that does everything and more your handheld console ever can), it's a ridiculous price to just play more console-like games on the go. And you need to carry two bricks with you.

Do you honestly think folks would be making this big a deal out of the PSV if it had the exact same feature set as a smartphone?

 

[onQ123]

Even if so, profit margins are going to be less. As he points out:



A big reason the PSP got so much support was the dirt cheap cost of producing the media (and when something was an unexpected hit, they could order a lot more quickly)

UMD was cheap & fast to produce but not as cheap & fast as uploading the Game to a sever 1 time & getting paid for it over & over again.

 

[Ebenezer]

Excellent interview. I like this guy.

I think it's pretty cool that me, Shuhei Yoshida, and Shigeru Miyamoto all have something in common. None of us know what the fuck this WiiU thing is really supposed to be.

 

[/XX/]

It's more expensive than the new Super AMOLED+ used in the Galaxy S2, it's also better quality, 1m:1 native contrast, 0.1ms response time. It is the same tech that powers their XEL-1 prototype OLED tabletop TV.

At this moment, I don't see any evidence that actually suggests SCEI will be using Sony Electronics Inc. (SEI) own specifications for the serial production of the screen modules, and there is some information stating that SAMSUNG Mobile Devices (SMD) will be producing them, or at least a big part of the entire supply (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28049846&postcount=673).

It is also true that we can't rule out the possibility of Sony Mobile Display Corp. (SMD) or another contract manufacturer producing them under their specifications for certain batches either. In the current state of the corporation, after the transfer of SMD's Yasu plant to KYOCERA and also the consolidation of the operations now under control of SMD from Sony EMCS Hamamatsu TEC plant, it is probable that they don't have the capability to provide a steady and considerable output necessary for this kind of mass-market device.

This situation can change drastically in the future now that the Japanese government has that new found interest in the competitiveness of Japan's OLED and LCD small panel manufacture business given its implication, through the Innovation Network Corporation of Japan (INCJ) fund, in the future merge of Toshiba Mobile Co., Ltd (TMD) and SMD, and its subsequent control of the resulting entity:

Toshiba, Sony plan to merge small LCD panel units: sources | Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/07/us-toshiba-sony-idUSTRE75556T20110607

 

[Hubba-EX]

People need to stop acting like a cheap ass, you want everything for nothing.

 

[matmanx1]

The big takeaway for me from all of this is that we (as consumers) seem to be getting a great piece of hardware for a very fair price. As with all gaming hardware it will be the software that ultimately decides how good a machine the Vita really is but the early signs and rumblings are very promising indeed.

Japanese support will definitely be superior to Western support, at least for the first year or two depending on how well the Vita takes off. If the machine sells well and gains some momentum I can definitely see the Epics and Bethesdas and whoever else of this world taking more notice and putting some money aside for projects on the Vita. Handheld gaming culture in the west is not the same as it is in Japan so I don't know that we'll ever see the depth and breadth of offerings that Nihon delivers out of Western studios but if the gap closes significantly because of the Vita then that can only be a very good thing.

 

[brain_stew]

It's more expensive than the new Super AMOLED+ used in the Galaxy S2, it's also better quality, 1m:1 native contrast, 0.1ms response time. It is the same tech that powers their XEL-1 prototype OLED tabletop TV.

When you said Retina, I figured Apple because Retina is Apple's branding for high pixel density screens. Retina is not a type of screen, just branding to please their legion of fanboys so that they think Apple is superior to every other type of screen.

Seriously, I was talking to someone about Vita, and he asked whether it had a Retina display, I said no and he replied, well iPhone is obviously better then. :S

I'm well aware of that but more people understand what a "retina class" display is than a qHD display. Sometimes brands take on generic use as well.

 

[Hyuga]

It's probably just more Sony PR bullshit.

Tell us how you really feel....

 

[Rolf NB]

UMD was cheap & fast to produce but not as cheap & fast as uploading the Game to a sever 1 time & getting paid for it over & over again.

The comparison was about the new physical format.

 

[H_Prestige]

Samsung G2 AMOLED+ is super quality. If Vita uses that same tech it would be fantastic.

 

[Futureman]

The way I see it, the actual hardware won't be profitable for a bit (who knows how long, though Kaz said 3 years), but all things considered, PSV will be profitable from day one due to software licensing fees, software sales, accessory sales, etc.

Pretty much everyone will be buying a Sony branded memory card for their PSV, so that's another big money maker.

 

[george_us]

Yeah, I agree. $250 is still a ridiculous amount for a handheld system.

Not really. OG Gameboy launched at $189 if I remember correctly.

 

[MalboroRed]

I just can't believe how big of a turnaround they have had at SCE since PS3. Vita strategy is the polar opposite - cheap, powerful, off the shelf hardware sold at or near break even, yielding a console that is easy and cheap to develop for.

I think new Sony could give Nintendo a big scare in the handheld market, especially given the tepid response by consumers. A lot of people I have spoken to have put their 3DS buying ambitions on hold to wait for Vita, regardless of how anecdotal that may be, I'm certain that Vita anticipation is damping 3DS sales.

Price parity and much more powerful and functional hardware will go a long way.

 

[GhostWriter24]

SMH at people complaining about the Vita price point. I'd be in for two at launch at that price, especially if they release in white too.

 

[Lesiroth]

I'm well aware of that but more people understand what a "retina class" display is than a qHD display. Sometimes brands take on generic use as well.

AFAIK, so far none of the high-end phones on the market have a qHD resolution+OLED/AMOLED screen, isn't that true? The Galaxy S2 has a WVGA resolution, and HTC and Motorola's recent phones use LCDs. Vita has both

 

[Angry Fork]

:bow

Sony, free us from the handheld ghetto!

Fuck yes.

It's probably just more Sony PR bullshit.

They've had no problem admitting selling at a loss with PS3, there's no reason to lie about Vita.

SMH at people complaining about the Vita price point. I'd be in for two at launch at that price, especially if they release in white too.

I think i'm gonna get 2 also, one for any potential custom firmware (just incase it bricks or something) and one without any of that stuff on it.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

I do not see how it can be beneficial in any way shape and form for them to say this. As consumers it wont make us buy more cause it's breaking even and they cannot lie to their shareholders.

I don't see how it can be beneficial to say that the PS3 is hard to program for to give devs something to do for 10 years, but they do it anyways.

They've had no problem admitting selling at a loss with PS3, there's no reason to lie about Vita.

Maybe the guy was just afraid of critics when he told that. After all, if the hardware isn't finalized, he can bend the truth in any way he wants.

 

[Lesiroth]

It's probably just more Sony PR bullshit.

Now tell us how you really feel..

 

[patsu]

What's more interesting are the launch games. Sony likes to introduce new IPs for a new system. Wondering what would become the superstars on Vita.

 

[Y2Kev]

Maybe the guy was just afraid of critics when he told that. After all, if the hardware isn't finalized, he can bend the truth in any way he wants.

Someone please get to the truth!!!!

 

[Kagari]

SMH at people complaining about the Vita price point. I'd be in for two at launch at that price, especially if they release in white too.

No kidding. The price is fine... especially because they're matching the 3DS price. Guess they're damned if they do, damned if they don't in this situation because people were always going to cry about the price.

 

[Massa]

No kidding. The price is fine... especially because they're matching the 3DS price. Guess they're damned if they do, damned if they don't in this situation because people were always going to cry about the price.

They should have released a system with the same specs as the PSP for $129. Now that's a competitive price!

 

[Suzzopher]

We should be complaining about the price in Europe, but the price seems fine for what you get for that money.

 

[Jeels]

No kidding. The price is fine... especially because they're matching the 3DS price. Guess they're damned if they do, damned if they don't in this situation because people were always going to cry about the price.

Even moreso considering there was barely anyone expecting $250. The lowest most people were going was $300 and even they were getting called out for being too liberal on their estimates. For what you are getting, the Vita is priced not just fairly, but with the consumer in mind. It makes its competition look silly in comparison.