sixteen-bit
Member
Are they trying to shed that image? That's news to me.
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Skullgirls- New Characters, Painwheel and Valentine, Announced [Full Roster Revealed]
- Thread starter El Sloth
- Start date
Are they trying to shed that image? That's news to me.
Motion Picture Soundtrack
Member
Perhaps not, but complaining about these issues is the first step to eliminating them.
You're just gonna have to deal with it.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm really surprised by the way this thread has gone so far. I've kinda avoided posting pictures myself so that people can focus on the content of the thread. It makes it easier for people to ease into the game once they see video.
I'm surprised that the OP and everyone else took the same route.
hmmm
I'm surprised that the OP and everyone else took the same route.
hmmm
It doesn't affect the gameplay so it doesn't matter. They can go join a monastery if it bothers them so.
Motion Picture Soundtrack
Member
I will. I don't expect anything to change for this game in particular but I would hope that the more people who point out that sexism in games is not ok, the more developers will start listening.
Are you saying sexism in games should be ignored if it's purely aesthetic? I am buying the game because the gameplay looks great, that doesn't mean I have to be content about every aspect of the game.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
How is this game sexist?
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
I really don't understand how this game is sexist, especially when there are talks of male dlc characters...
Is an all female cast really that difficult for some people to handle? yeesh
Is an all female cast really that difficult for some people to handle? yeesh
It is for some, yes.
Whether it's insecurity or just not liking having a female avatar, it really does affect some people. That, plus the fact people like to project themselves onto their characters, so if they're male and the character's female, it can prevent that.
It is what it is.
sixteen-bit
Member
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Like, is it sexist towards males? I really dont understand that. No woman here is being victimized because of her gender.
If a tv show doesnt have one person of every race, is it being racist?
If a tv show doesnt have one person of every race, is it being racist?
sixteen-bit
Member
Nah, it's just not being inclusive. Captain Planet FTW.
Axelstream
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Motion Picture Soundtrack is talking about the sexual nature of the character design, since the issue he brought up was related to Valentine's appearance.
Motion Picture Soundtrack
Member
It objectifies women. It's hardly something limited to this game (or this industry), and I'm not trying to go on an anti-skullgirls crusade as I don't think it's close to the worst example around. This game is one of the only ones I'm interested in at the moment so naturally it's the only one I've looked into enough to complain about. I'm sure my reactions to many other games would be similar if I had the time or interest for them.
Edit: This has nothing to do with the lack of male characters, and I am perfectly comfortable playing as a female character. I have no idea where anyone got that idea from what I was said.
Edit: This has nothing to do with the lack of male characters, and I am perfectly comfortable playing as a female character. I have no idea where anyone got that idea from what I was said.
Criminal Upper
Banned
Umm...a bunch of males made a fighting game, and almost every character is a sexy charicature of the female form?
For example, Killer Instinct has one of the sexiest females in fighting games, Black Orchid.
BUT there's also beefcakes like Tusk, Chief Thunder and Jago for the ladies to enjoy.
Yeah, this is more of a "Soul Calibur expanding bustline" kind of sexism, not a "SF female health penalty" thing.
Sexualized female fighting game characters are so common in the genre that it's kind of hard for me to be outraged about it, but I can see why it would bother someone.
That sounds like petty egoism to me (no offense to anyone who does operate this way, but it doesn't make much sense to me). But then, I never understood the concept of projecting oneself onto one's character, in spite of acknowledging how subjective the desirability of a player character can be all the same.
NinajHeartless
Member
I am totally with you, comrade.
The character designs have been my main problem with the game since day one, and I am glad you had the courage to actually speak up and complain about it ^__^
*high five*
I like to think, when playing Zangief, that I am a manly Russian wrestler. I would pick you up into my arms, and gently caress you and slam you... into my bed. There, I will show you what the bears thought me and their ways of matin-
I mean... YEAH, BRO. PILEDRIVE YOUR ASS. UGGGH, SWAG.
SolarPowered
Member
I bet Michiru Yamane, the VAs and the female artists(there is one who supposedly prefers do the art for the chests) would love to have a word with the trolls.
Having an all female cast is not sexist. No character in the game is portrayed in a stereotypical manner(besides realistically showing panties when they do a freaking exaggerated motion), no tentacle jokes/rape(LOL Darkstalkers fems+Shuma) are being made and they are not even being gratuitous with the official art like I've seen for Street Fighter, KOF, BB, Tekken, DOA(oh doa...), Soul Calibur, etc.
Come back when Fillia is a 50 year old woman with DD tits and a model's body/face. Come back when Parasoul has the the thighs of a horse. Oh... you should totally come through when Squigly wears a one piece like Cammy that even gets the underboob (I'll be first for sure
).
I'm not happy with every aspect of the game either. I'm pretty pissed that Squigly won't be there for launch, but at least it is something valid.
Having an all female cast is not sexist. No character in the game is portrayed in a stereotypical manner(besides realistically showing panties when they do a freaking exaggerated motion), no tentacle jokes/rape(LOL Darkstalkers fems+Shuma) are being made and they are not even being gratuitous with the official art like I've seen for Street Fighter, KOF, BB, Tekken, DOA(oh doa...), Soul Calibur, etc.
Come back when Fillia is a 50 year old woman with DD tits and a model's body/face. Come back when Parasoul has the the thighs of a horse. Oh... you should totally come through when Squigly wears a one piece like Cammy that even gets the underboob (I'll be first for sure
).There are people on GAF who sometimes link avatars so strongly with posters that they read the posts and imagine the avatar saying it. I'm having one of those moments right now.
...I admit, I lol'ed.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I dont think its sexist in the slightest, its putting females in the same status quo as male characters in fighting games. Zangief, Fei-Long, Urien .. they show a lot of skin, flaunt their pecs and muscles around .. are they sexist designs as well?
These are strong female characters with a thought out storyline. Some of them go for a sexy angle, yes, and some dont, at all. Thats just variety.
The lead animator is a female. A sexist female, apparently!
These are strong female characters with a thought out storyline. Some of them go for a sexy angle, yes, and some dont, at all. Thats just variety.
The lead animator is a female. A sexist female, apparently!
Overly sexualized depictions of women do not objectify women. I've come to realize this as a sort of straw man argument for people who are just uncomfortable one way or another with sexual, or sexually suggestive images.
Anyways I'm looking forward to this. Seems like a pretty original fighter, should be fun.
Anyways I'm looking forward to this. Seems like a pretty original fighter, should be fun.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's a complicated issue.
A lot of women are truly hurt by all the big boob hourglass figures portrayed in games, anime, etc. It's not an insignificant thing.
Honestly, I feel like women are having a pretty easy way voicing their concerns over that. But they only go as far as to protect themselves, and fail to see the whole picture: EVERYTHING that a game contains usually is out of a fashion magazine. Healthy, good looking man and women all around the places. Men have a lot of muscle, no overweight*, women have perfectly shaped, good-looking body - and no average middle-aged boy either, honestly. And definitely not weak/fat boys either.
*Apart from characters like Honda and Rufus - one is a real sportsman, other is kind of a stereotype, whatever -, I do not even feel like that average-looking man and woman with overweight issues are really fit for fighting games. For obvious reasons.
In terms of cheesecake (?), or in terms of grimdark backstories?
The latter
Kind of disappointed at only six playable characters + one playable boss to start with, pretty much kills the game's chances as a tourney fighter (I ask you, who uses Shuma or Jill as a regular in their team in UMvC3? There's no guarantee you'll even be able to select them, depending on where you play).
I remember saying months ago that an end-of-year release (as it was, back then) was wildly over-optimistic, and so it has proven. Y'know, I wouldn't have minded a three- or four-month delay for just two more characters, but if this is how it has to be, then I'll still definitely buy the game, but I'll feel somewhat apprehensive while doing so.
Now, which version - PS3 or 360? Which version does Reverge Labs make more money on?
A lot of women are neurotic bitches and still more women need to get their priorities straight. Same with men. We're all fucked up somehow, and that's significant.
.
If skullgirls was objectifying women then the skullgirls only purpose would be to look good and turn you on.
Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification before attaching women to it, its very easy to do.
Motion Picture Soundtrack
Member
I'm not happy with every aspect of the game either. I'm pretty pissed that Squigly won't be there for launch, but at least it is something valid.
Having an all female cast is not sexist. No character in the game is portrayed in a stereotypical manner(besides realistically showing panties when they do a freaking exaggerated motion), no tentacle jokes/rape(LOL Darkstalkers fems+Shuma) are being made and they are not even being gratuitous with the official art like I've seen for Street Fighter, KOF, BB, Tekken, DOA(oh doa...), Soul Calibur, etc.
Come back when Fillia is a 50 year old woman with DD tits and a model's body/face. Come back when Parasoul has the the thighs of a horse. Oh... you should totally come through when Squigly wears a one piece like Cammy that even gets the underboob (I'll be first for sure
You can't see how a sexy nurse character is objectification? I don't buy that panty shots are excused because they're realistic, because at some point the decision was deliberately made for those characters to perform those actions, and to wear those short skirts, which didn't have to happen in the first place. And I have issues with the other games you listed too. It's interesting you don't see where I'm coming from, I think what I've said so far is not being hyperbolic at all. Again, I'm not trying to say the game is evil, I'm just pointing out things I think could be improved on were Reverge to make games following the release of this one.
The difference is women have a history of being objectified in games and other mediums, whereas male characters do not. I would argue that those male characters you listed are not designed to be attractive, except perhaps in the sense that males playing would want to be like them (ie. having the perfect body etc.). Of course we don't know the exact facts of how the characters were designed so it's open for debate.
And I don't think it's unheard of for a woman to contribute to the prevelence of patriarchy.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Skullgirls isn't really a big offender here, but this topic is important, so it's not so bad to discuss it here I hope. I know one of the guys who works on the game posts here, and hopefully he doesn't take offense to this discussion. I think it should be discussed whenever the opportunity arises.
Body image insecurity is a bigger problem for women than we think. As I said, it's a complicated issue, and it's not like you're not making sense. But the bottom line is, whenever possible, we should be as sensitive about it as possible.
There are some great artists out there who are female pervs. No shame in that! Some of my favorite female webcomic artists are huge pervs.
BTW 8 chars is enough to make a decent tourney fighter, but the cast HAS to be balanced well for it to work. I think it's 8 chars at launch though: Filia, Cerebella, Parasoul, Peacock, Painwheel, Fortune, Valentine, and one more right?
Blazblue started out with just 10 in arcades.
That said, you're going to have to expand the cast to 12 to keep the game active in tournies.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
So because women have been objectified in the past, in other media or software, all the characters here should have baggy pants, look average and provide zero boners on their looks alone... otherwise its sexist.
I dont think thats what youre saying, but it sure as hell is coming off as that.
I dont think thats what youre saying, but it sure as hell is coming off as that.
SolarPowered
Member
This thread doesn't need the discussion if it is gonna get silly. The audience is tiny, the news is infrequent and the trolling opportunities increase exponentially due to the gender choice, art and the fact that there is no rabid fan base to defend the game.
Another fifty posts surrounding this subject and nearly one fourth of the thread is completely off tangent and this thread goes in a shitty direction while it is only a drop in the ocean for a Capcom fighting game thread or KOF thread.
The girls in Skullgirls are more covered up than most women in the other fighting game series as far as I can tell. The one who shows the least skin is probably Ms.Fortune or maybe Cerebella and they still fall shy of the hooker levels of DOA or Soul Calibur. I do feel that you have a point, but this is hardly the thread and the series to be focusing on if you ask me.
I don't even say this as someone who is being defensive. I honestly don't get why this game would be a lighting rod when there are far worse offenders that reach a larger audience.
A woman who hates herself? Just how I like 'em!
I understand that. But I also think that there should be nothing wrong with admiring body perfection if it did not come with whole generations spitting on boys and girls starting with pre/normal/high-school.
As it is right now, putting fat kids and not-so-perfect women into games would only make this reaction from our current gamer generation: "oh, so now fat kids are in the game? HAHA, lol.".
That is the core problem imho, and that mentality, that bully-like stance is what needs to go.
Look at the reaction to Rufus as an example of that. Or Tekken Bob. Those chars are rage-inducing, and people wouldn't be half as salty if they were gi-wearing dudebros.
Skullgirls isn't really a realistic style at all, I can't see body image issues coming from it.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I'm in a local FG group, 8 of us get together every week, and I think just about all of us are getting the game. I think the game looks phenomenal, and it deserves as much interest as it can get.
Painwheel's crawling super is nightmare fuel.
It isn't. It's sexualization. Sexualization is not objectification. Treating a real woman as an object without rights, in the real world, is objectification. Displaying images of sexualized figures so that we may (or may not) enjoy them, as we might be biologically wired to, does nothing to treat a woman as an object. The image of her body, perhaps, but not the person.
Motion Picture Soundtrack said:
Right. Cuz the freedom to express your sexuality, or for a woman to dress -or appear - as she pleases is patriachy.
-----
Okay, I realize I'm contributing to the derailment. Apologies... back on topic - has it been mentioned whether or not this will see a PC release?
sixteen-bit
Member
This is the most amazing post.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
On the subject of people projecting themselves onto characters, I've always thought of it more as the player, in stuff like fighting games at least, relating to their character like a coach. You don't pick Chun Li because you want to be a girl (necessarily), but because she is "your fighter".
I mean hell, I am male, and gay, so I have two strikes against role playing a girl if I pick a female character. But I like to play female characters in fighting games equally. Women look cool too.
Heck, the coaching metaphor is even more relevant with so many team games around - if you pick a 3 persona team, one of whom is female, are you gonna worry that you have MPD and one of your personalities is a woman? That situation is even more like being the coach of a team, than treating like an RPG.
I mean hell, I am male, and gay, so I have two strikes against role playing a girl if I pick a female character. But I like to play female characters in fighting games equally. Women look cool too.
Heck, the coaching metaphor is even more relevant with so many team games around - if you pick a 3 persona team, one of whom is female, are you gonna worry that you have MPD and one of your personalities is a woman? That situation is even more like being the coach of a team, than treating like an RPG.
It's going really well - everyone loves it, and my favorite moment was showing it to the guy from EDGE who was literally swooning over everything. Not that many people read EDGE, but I respect that magazine a lot, so it meant a lot to me.
Today I had to wake up at 5 AM to move the tour to Paris, and again everyone loved it. Ken Bogard, who is probably France's equivalent of UltraDavid, was supposed to see it for like 20 minutes and then played Parasoul for like four hours. Later Kayane, the female French fighting game champ, came and played for a while and also seemed to really like it, along with people from JeuxVideo, Canard PC and others.
We're showing Valentine here, and there will be screens coming out once the embargo's up at the end of the tour.
And I can't really announce the final online feature set yet - the core is pretty solid, but there are still features that may or may not make it for the initial release. That's all dependent on testing - if something is taking too long, we may have to delay it to one of the free content updates.
For example, I think you'll be able to invite friends into your Training Room at launch, but it's entirely dependent on how testing goes, because anything online is inherently risky.
Huh!? Why didn't you update us about France? You didn't tell anyone I'm pretty sure! No twitter update from whoever runs it? Wow bro you dun goofed. I know fans that would really have liked to play it. but they live in nice so I ain't telling them now! Unless it was just inviting famous people or something, in which case its ok.
FallingEdge
Member
How do you feel about Arcana Heart?
SolarPowered
Member
Out of curiosity... what kinds of fighters have you played in the last five years, Ravidrath? What game best exemplifies what you are trying to hit with your netcode?
Also, I REALLY hope online training mode is ready for launch. This game needs features to set it apart from other fighters at launch and no video uploads is already a big strike against it. Playing well is great, but that particular part of a fighting game shines over months unlike online training mode, HD uploads and pristine netcode(BlazBlue standard) which wow people from day one.
Are you showing pictures, recorded footage or actual demos for her there? I really hope you are talking about footage at least haha.
Also, I REALLY hope online training mode is ready for launch. This game needs features to set it apart from other fighters at launch and no video uploads is already a big strike against it. Playing well is great, but that particular part of a fighting game shines over months unlike online training mode, HD uploads and pristine netcode(BlazBlue standard) which wow people from day one.
Well this thread is lively, I'll give it that much right now. :lol
Also according to this thread everything ever is sexist, funny caricatures are just as wrong as fully featured characters, and my absolute favorite fighting game persona is a fiesty homely Karate-ka with a penchant for ending a man's ability to have children. :lol
Also according to this thread everything ever is sexist, funny caricatures are just as wrong as fully featured characters, and my absolute favorite fighting game persona is a fiesty homely Karate-ka with a penchant for ending a man's ability to have children. :lol
Oh, I don't know about that. The circulation of the paper magazine may not be enormous, but they get a lot of readership online, and anything they print is talked about on forums like this one.
That's not mentioning the fact that the readership is the type who is lot more into games and are far more likely to buy Skullgirls than your average reader of... Christ, I can't even name a rival, lesser magazine. So IMO you should be extremely happy, because good coverage from them should mean a lot more than from other mags.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Im guessing by showing they mean at least vids, if not playable.
Again, total guess work on my part.