radios shipping overview
Member
By ear? Damn, that's insane. Those guys were pros.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
SNES vs Genesis Sound
- Thread starter Beerman462
- Start date
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I know right?
Thanks for the links too krej; i got some tuuuuuuuunes coming once i get off this phone.
Other way around. Marry Me? is a 1997 piece, and there's an interview with Naka in the Sonic 1 & 2 OST where he talks about how Nakamura surprised the team with Sweet Sweet Sweet a while after turning in the music for the game.
Wrong song for Starlight, too: Kusuriyubi no Kesshin
dragonyeuw
Member
I don't know, tunes like this still sound pretty dang good in 2016...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtHUxCExsRY&list=PLC07EBC6571E991CD
HF2014
Member
The first time i launch Super Metroid and heard the voice talking at the beginning, even if it was one phrase, it litteraly blew my mind. It was so clear. Sound in Street Fighter was also better, music from FFIII was amazing. Nope, genesis was weak for sound vs the snes. But god some games just played better on genesis, and that i dont understand. NHL was best on genesis, Mortal Kombat too.
entremet
Member
:bow :bow :bow
Thanks for posting these. Never knew!
Sonic 1 is one of my favorite OSTs ever.
It's an Apples and Oranges situation. Both consoles had games with amazing soundtracks.
You say Chrono Trigger, then I say Streets of Rage.
The unfortunate thing is that a lot of multi-platform titles had better sound on the SNES as opposed to the Genesis because the Genesis Dev Kit didn't have a great sound driver. However, the Genesis had a much faster processor than the SNES which meant that games rarely experienced slowdown on the Genesis.
Perfect example that highlights the differences between the systems is the game Out Of This World AKA Another World:
The SNES version has brighter graphics and better sound effects and music. But at the expense of horrible slowdown. Such as in the first level where you have to avoid a creature and jump onto a cliff. The slowdown can easily get you killed there and in many other parts of the game.
The Genesis version had darker graphics and worse sound effects and music. But zero slowdown. If you die in the Genesis version than it's your fault.
You say Chrono Trigger, then I say Streets of Rage.
The unfortunate thing is that a lot of multi-platform titles had better sound on the SNES as opposed to the Genesis because the Genesis Dev Kit didn't have a great sound driver. However, the Genesis had a much faster processor than the SNES which meant that games rarely experienced slowdown on the Genesis.
Perfect example that highlights the differences between the systems is the game Out Of This World AKA Another World:
The SNES version has brighter graphics and better sound effects and music. But at the expense of horrible slowdown. Such as in the first level where you have to avoid a creature and jump onto a cliff. The slowdown can easily get you killed there and in many other parts of the game.
The Genesis version had darker graphics and worse sound effects and music. But zero slowdown. If you die in the Genesis version than it's your fault.
Yep, this is all true as well.
My favorite Genesis game.
Mitula's Temple theme
Overworld Map theme 00:35 always gets me :')
This game had incredible sound and graphics. It was released very close to Comix Zone and both really pushed the Genesis.
Space boss This fucking boss! Hard game...
So that's where that song in Sonic Megamix came from
I worked on the dang thing and I didn't even know where that song was from!
EDIT:
Wait a second, they converted the arrangements by ear?
I keep finding out crazy things about these games' development decades later somehow.
It's one of the catchiest songs in the game.
I don't think there's any hard proof, it's just the most likely explanation for why the Sonic 2 demo tracks are so downtempo.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
You know, I see people posting screeching ear drum hurting Genesis renditions of SNES classic musical pieces all the time claiming they're better than the original.
I think maybe playing the Genesis as a kid damaged these people's ear drums while they were developing and so they aren't hearing the whole thing. Thats the only explanation I have.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that MMX arrangement.
This one's a clear improvement though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHGip5BoGE4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqRl_K2MrBw
Brian_FETO
Banned
I didn't realize there was such a hatred for the Genesis' sound...
It's different that SNES, simple as that. It has a unique (and raw) sound that when used well, is awesome
Probably helped that SEGA composers were writing god-tier cutting edge OSTs
It's different that SNES, simple as that. It has a unique (and raw) sound that when used well, is awesome
Probably helped that SEGA composers were writing god-tier cutting edge OSTs
jabberwocker
Banned
I don't think there was anything wrong with music itself. Snes and Genesis sound hardware were on two different levels. Hell wasn't the snes sound chip considered better than the n64?
Soodanim
Member
It's subjective of course, but I prefer the Mega Drive sound to the SNES. I've always like synthesiser sounds and when doing direct comparisons the SNES sounds are a bit muffled.
Some SNES games have some of the best sound tracks (SMW) but the highs on the MD are fantastic. We all know what those highs are.
I do have a question though. There was one particular man that made fantastic stuff and there was a cancelled MD/Genesis game that had a great soundtrack. Does that ring any bells? I think it was a space game, or the cover indicated that much.
Some SNES games have some of the best sound tracks (SMW) but the highs on the MD are fantastic. We all know what those highs are.
I do have a question though. There was one particular man that made fantastic stuff and there was a cancelled MD/Genesis game that had a great soundtrack. Does that ring any bells? I think it was a space game, or the cover indicated that much.
The N64 didn't really have a dedicated sound chip, but I'm pretty sure it had superior output in most cases. Some games have muddy audio, but I think that was mostly storage limitations. The samples are usually much cleaner than SNES samples.
F-Zero X - Mute City (N64)
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBuXfcFKAlo"]F-Zero - Mute City (SNES)[/URL]
What blows me away about that soundtrack is it's all FM and apart from the title where he used all six FM channels the other tracks only use five so the game could play audio samples without compromising the music.
The drums are all FM and only use one channel. In Streets of Rage 2 the hi hats were made with FM (channel 3) and the rest of the percussion used samples, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as in Time Trax.
Cleaner title
Briefing (?)
Well what became much more common in households over the decades, Orange Juice or Apple Juice? Oranges > Apples
FM Synth is kinda popular today though too.
And the Genesis is far, far better at being a synth, than the SNES is at being a sampler.
Is it a serious question?
Likewise I could say that people who prefer SNES music are literally tone deaf. Tuning issues are extremly common with instruments being off from a couple of cents up to a whole damn quarter tone. And that's a fact and not just some arbitrary assessment.
There's nothing "screeching" or ear drum hurting about it at all. It sounds clean, and the lead slides up and down like a real guitar can, something the SNES can't do.
F-Zero X doesn't use synth-generated music, all the tracks use pre-recorded audio.
That's just your regular Tim Follin magic.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Plus you used a youtube channel called SNESosT to do it with
To say something useful it is interesting how The Hybrid Front shared a composer with Sonic CD and also goes from the multiple versions of the same music track like Sonic CD did.
ElectricThunder
Member
My god that's some fresh wrongness in the thread again!
End of the day? Nintendo knew better, but shied away from pursuit of excellence in overall and diverse audio quality at what I can only presume to be a lack of respect for the medium, bowing to short sighted bottom line concerns at the time, and just failing to realize the potential and real value at hand---this entire damn dynamic between the 2 systems would've been better and all the richer for it if they'd even just went the laziest route and bludgeoned a Famicom VRC-7 Chip into the SNES spec and called it a day, to say nothing of if they'd actually invested proper in the VRC initiative and it reached a VRC-8/9/etc going forward.
Nintendo dooming the entirety of the VRC line of things to a Famicom relic in a life cut tremendously short contributed to the sad fate of game audio homogeny more than just about anything else save the shortly latter moves with SEGA(not to say they went with a best foot forward approach with the Genesis FM and general sound situation either given hardware era SEGA was always at least partially coasting on luck despite blunders...)/YAMAHA on the Saturn(MUCH more potent than the Genesis FM, but largely ignored because Hey CD's/Samples ahoy alongside the general Frankenstein's nightmare that was using the hardware period) then finally rounding out with the Dreamcast having nothing distinct alongside the rest.
End of the day? Nintendo knew better, but shied away from pursuit of excellence in overall and diverse audio quality at what I can only presume to be a lack of respect for the medium, bowing to short sighted bottom line concerns at the time, and just failing to realize the potential and real value at hand---this entire damn dynamic between the 2 systems would've been better and all the richer for it if they'd even just went the laziest route and bludgeoned a Famicom VRC-7 Chip into the SNES spec and called it a day, to say nothing of if they'd actually invested proper in the VRC initiative and it reached a VRC-8/9/etc going forward.
Nintendo dooming the entirety of the VRC line of things to a Famicom relic in a life cut tremendously short contributed to the sad fate of game audio homogeny more than just about anything else save the shortly latter moves with SEGA(not to say they went with a best foot forward approach with the Genesis FM and general sound situation either given hardware era SEGA was always at least partially coasting on luck despite blunders...)/YAMAHA on the Saturn(MUCH more potent than the Genesis FM, but largely ignored because Hey CD's/Samples ahoy alongside the general Frankenstein's nightmare that was using the hardware period) then finally rounding out with the Dreamcast having nothing distinct alongside the rest.
Does F Zero just straight up stream audio? I'm not familiar with N64 audio, but I thought it used used short samples like the SNES or Amiga to save storage.
Tim Follin is indeed awesome, but I don't think he made anything else for the Genesis. Makes it even more impressive that he did that without much experience on it.
KainXVIII
Member
Some cool SNES music from LOTR, strange that its not mentioned before.
https://ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Junt_dS3OJk
https://ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Junt_dS3OJk
F-Zero X in particular just streams audio, although the music is mono for compression. N64 doesn't have a dedicated sound chip, so I guess devs are just limited by processing power and memory. Wipeout 64 also streamed music from the cart. Most games used synth music though, like you said.
Half composed by Naofumi Hataya from Sonic CD and Nights, that OST is so good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQgahQ3Jwjg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2nL-XaPfkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3_R4wRRoA8
Plus you used a youtube channel called SNESosT to do it with
To say something useful it is interesting how The Hybrid Front shared a composer with Sonic CD and also goes from the multiple versions of the same music track like Sonic CD did.
Even Nights does it too!
Polioliolio
Member
*cues a farting robot orchestra*
Half the time it sounds like robot farts, but it can still blow you away. Wouldn't change it if I could.
Half the time it sounds like robot farts, but it can still blow you away. Wouldn't change it if I could.
Vital Tundra
Member
SNES. There were only a handful of people that could make the Genesis sound good.
chaobreaker
Member
The best Genesis sounds can top the best SNES sounds, but overall I would have to give it to the SNES.
That being said, I think the Genesis has a more fascinating sound technology in it. I highly recommend watching this one video just for a basic look at how the system handles making music.
https://youtu.be/jLNKUT2ZbDI
That being said, I think the Genesis has a more fascinating sound technology in it. I highly recommend watching this one video just for a basic look at how the system handles making music.
https://youtu.be/jLNKUT2ZbDI
s_mirage
Member
The reverse is also true, and well composed Sega exclusive tracks would likely sound like muffled ass if converted to the SNES. Evolving sounds were usually a no go for SNES soundtracks due to the pathetic amount of available sound RAM, as were clear sounds with crystal highs. Short, lo-fi sample loops were usually the order of the day. No such problem with the YM2612. as long and evolving sounds could be synthesized with virtually no memory overhead.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Genesis had its own signature sound which has some nostalgic value to me, but objectively SNES just sounded so much better.
That said, some Genesis games managed to put out some incredible music (Sonic series, Streets of Rage). But when it was bad, it was just ear-grating bad (Kid Chameleon, Altered Beast, etc)
That said, some Genesis games managed to put out some incredible music (Sonic series, Streets of Rage). But when it was bad, it was just ear-grating bad (Kid Chameleon, Altered Beast, etc)
s_mirage
Member
Music appreciation is nothing but subjective. The SNES does not, and by definition can not, sound objectively much better.
Greylancer's some good stuff.
Well, I guess the argument that sound hardware is objectively better could be made if it were able to produce the same output as the one its being contrasted with, alongside stuff that the other can't... but that's clearly not the case here, and if anything the Genesis would come closer to satisfying that criteria given enough memory to work with.
Your example F-Zero X used streaming (i.e. pre-recorded music which could be from live recordings), hard to speak of "samples" in such cases (SNES can technically also play back streamed audio, it just wasn't feasible storage cost wise at the time beyond the many cases where longer voice samples were streamed).
N64 had no dedicated sound chip, only a DAC. Everything sound wise had to be mixed in software which meant that developers constantly had to balance their priorities, whether they want to put more processing power to graphic rendering, sound mixing or game ai calculation. The result was that the actual mixing was most often at far worse rate and resolution than on the SNES (where it is fixed at 32kHz/15bit by hardware design). Same case as with GBA btw, just there the developers had a weaker CPU, a worse DAC and a sound chip for GB backward compatibility.
No, neither will ever actually come close to the other. A synthesizer can't ever fully emulate DSP sound processing which for the SNES was pretty powerful for the time and hardware budget (and fully programmable unlike the preset DSPs of the later PS1/PS2 samplers).
IronicSonic
Member
I still love the Road Rash and Toejam and Earl OST.
No other video game music can replace their catchiness. Not even Frog's theme. Not even all the music on tge SNES super mario all stars collection.
No other video game music can replace their catchiness. Not even Frog's theme. Not even all the music on tge SNES super mario all stars collection.