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SNES vs Genesis Sound

Soltype

Soltype

Member
lazygecko said:
Eternal Champions - Midknight (YM2612 Rearranged)

Original music is so damn sparse on the sound design (and this despite being one of the very few western games to actually use all 10 channels), but there's some interesting tunes beneath all that. I was really taken aback by just how complex Midknight's theme is time signtature-wise.
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lazygecko said:
CPS2 time

Cadillacs and Dinosaurs - Stage 1-1
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Good job, nice hearing Eternal Champions tunes filled out.

Chacranajxy said:
CPS1, brah.

And that just sounds like a worse version of the original.
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The Genesis has 2 less FM channels to work with and a lot less for pcm.This is a good arrangement.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
Spiral Insanity said:
I hope the consensus isn't that the Genesis sound chip sucks.. because that is just ignorant. They are both great, different, but great.
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I think the tide is swinging a little bit. We're seeing less of the "lol Genesis sounds like farts" which is always a bonus. There are still "I just prefer how real/live/soft the SNES sounds compared to the Genesis" but the cases where Sega's machine is obviously better in a comparison but blindly dismissed in favour of the SNES seem to be minimising.

I personally feel that the SNES has never been as good at conveying high energy/dynamic music tracks as well as the Genesis/MD can, which I think is because of it's arcade heritage. Almost everything that sounds notably better on (or is a style that feels more suited to) the MD is energetic and arcade-like.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
EPSYLON EAGLE said:
Chuck Rock intro rocks in Sega Genesis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHnmyQtPDw

and sucks on Super Nes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-BWr6o7XvA
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It's a Matt Furniss joint. He's one of the western musicians who really knew how to make the YM2612 sing.

Other works of his include the Genesis ports of Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, The Lost Vikings and The Lion King, all of which sound excellent for the hardware. (Yet, they didn't get him to do Mortal Kombat 3, and it sounds like crap as a result. Ah, well...)
 
S

sfried

Member
Shaneus said:
I personally feel that the SNES has never been as good at conveying high energy/dynamic music tracks as well as the Genesis/MD can, which I think is because of it's arcade heritage. Almost everything that sounds notably better on (or is a style that feels more suited to) the MD is energetic and arcade-like.
Click to expand...

Not exactly true. There are a couple of exceptions, most notably Rare and a few other's like Plok! that really push the SPC chip to unexplored territory with its more electronic sounding music.

From Plok!, Beach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY

From Super Turrican, Face the Face:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrPkBN4buXk
 
dcx4610

dcx4610

Member
I used to rent Genesis games like Street Fighter (while owning the SNES version) just to hear the music. It wasn't as clean as sounding but there was something special about it. It just handled certain types of music better.

Orchestrated music and music that had samples were clearly superior on the SNES while the Genesis was better at guitars, keyboards and electronic music. I loved them both.
 
C

crackhead_bob

Member
Axelay, Final Fantasy 2 and 3, Actraiser, and Castlevania IV are games whose soundtracks stick out to me nearly 30 years later. And even though I'm partial to the SNES, I believe that the Genesis was able to produce memorable music when it was being helmed by top notch sound composers. Revenge of Shinobi, Streets of Rage 1 and 2, Strider, Ghouls n Ghosts, and Thunderforce 2, 3, and 4 are the most notable examples in mind of what the Genesis was capable of. I was an owner of both systems, but I clearly favored the SNES over its library of software.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
sfried said:
Not exactly true. There are a couple of exceptions, most notably Rare and a few other's like Plok! that really push the SPC chip to unexplored territory with its more electronic sounding music.

From Plok!, Beach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY
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"Personally feel" ;P

I've seen that Plok track come up a few times in this thread and it's definitely one of the better examples of the SNES stepping out of it's comfort zone, it's still the exception rather than the rule. And I wouldn't say it's as high energy as I was picturing when I wrote that post... it was more this and this.
 
A

Armoured Priest

Member
Shadow Hog said:
It's a Matt Furniss joint. He's one of the western musicians who really knew how to make the YM2612 sing.

Other works of his include the Genesis ports of Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, The Lost Vikings and The Lion King, all of which sound excellent for the hardware. (Yet, they didn't get him to do Mortal Kombat 3, and it sounds like crap as a result. Ah, well...)
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This podcast (http://legacymusichour.blogspot.com/) did a sort of interview/focus on Furness a few years ago.


Edit: found the specific one: http://legacymusichour.blogspot.com/2013/07/episode-143-matt-furniss.html
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
By the by, I'm definitely a staunch defender of the Genesis and its sound chip, but I was recently informed of the existence of this track from Hourai Gakuen no Bouken, and well, that's a really good piano sample for the SNES. Goddamn Hitoshi Sakimoto.

Granted, he could probably get away with that since it's the only instrument being played, but still, really nice.
 
C

COOLSKELETON95

Neo Member
EPSYLON EAGLE said:
Chuck Rock intro rocks in Sega Genesis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHnmyQtPDw

and sucks on Super Nes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-BWr6o7XvA
Click to expand...

And the Amiga version is better than both! But definitely of the two, the SEGA version is miles ahead.

I am glad to see more people respecting SEGA's sound. I'm not a massive fan of a lot of SNES music as it sounds almost "powdery" to me, but there is some damn good stuff on there too. I just think the Mega Drive has a more dynamic style.
 
L

Lynx_7

Member
Shaneus said:
"Personally feel" ;P

I've seen that Plok track come up a few times in this thread and it's definitely one of the better examples of the SNES stepping out of it's comfort zone, it's still the exception rather than the rule. And I wouldn't say it's as high energy as I was picturing when I wrote that post... it was more this and this.
Click to expand...

I can't post links since I'm at work, but the Power Rangers games have some pretty cool high energy tracks, such as Ivan Ooze from the Movie adaptation and the boss theme from the first game.
But I have to agree the Genesis does high pumping adrenaline rush stuff better in general, though my favorite soundtracks of the era are still from SNES games.
 
D

dogen

Member
sfried said:
Not exactly true. There are a couple of exceptions, most notably Rare and a few other's like Plok! that really push the SPC chip to unexplored territory with its more electronic sounding music.

From Plok!, Beach:


From Super Turrican, Face the Face:
[/QUOTE] I think overall the SNES ...n https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAacW3CveL0
Click to expand...
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
dogen said:
I think overall the SNES did a worse job of Turrican than the Genesis.

Super Turrican
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff1FBD2Cwj0

Mega Turrican
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAacW3CveL0
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Turrican III
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8wckHC9z3g

...okay, technically Mega Turrican was the lead development version between the two (and presumably the same can be said of its soundtrack), but still, Turrican mainly being associated with the Amiga, felt like throwing it out there.
 
K

kinggroin

Banned
Went through a lot of the last few samples posted for the Genesis. Wow, there's some nice stuff.


SNES still has the higher highs (I've yet to hear anything that sounds as...cinematic (?) as the stuff I hear on SNES (notably the squaresoft RPGs, Rare stuff, Contra III, SCIV etc.)

Genesis stuff sounds great in a chiptunesy kind of way. Very videogamey

But the lows are also much MUCH more grating than what I've personally come across on SNES. Voice samples especially.
 
D

dogen

Member
Shadow Hog said:
Turrican III


...okay, technically Mega Turrican was the lead development version between the two (and presumably the same can be said of its soundtrack), but still, Turrican mainly being associated with the Amiga, felt like throwing it out there.
Click to expand...

Obviously I didn't mean that it was literally turrican 1. They weren't the same game anyway, so would you want me to have said " the genesis did a better job of turrican III than the super nintendo did of super turrican"? Come on.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
dogen said:
Obviously I didn't mean that it was literally turrican 1. They weren't the same game anyway, so would you want me to have said " the genesis did a better job of turrican III than the super nintendo did of super turrican"? Come on.
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Er... I wasn't trying to imply you were doing anything wrong; just supplying another variant of the same song! Cuz, y'know, I thought it interesting. Nothing more, honest!
 
S

Shaneus

Member
COOLSKELETON95 said:
And the Amiga version is better than both! But definitely of the two, the SEGA version is miles ahead.

I am glad to see more people respecting SEGA's sound. I'm not a massive fan of a lot of SNES music as it sounds almost "powdery" to me, but there is some damn good stuff on there too. I just think the Mega Drive has a more dynamic style.
Click to expand...
Not really knowing the game's history (although obv. there are a LOT of Amiga ports on the Genesis) that intro is such an Amiga thing, at least, an Amiga Demoscene thing. Tie in the instrument samples/playing to an animation cue on the screen, always loved that effect.

jett said:
One thing I really don't like about Amiga music is how the sound is set at the extreme right and left channels.
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Everything else about it is pretty great, though. It's just a symptom of the format, later on I think it was updated with panning and such.

Maybe that's why I'm not so hot on SNES stuff. I love Amiga MOD tracker titles and also Genesis stuff, but the SNES is a middle-ground that doesn't sit right with me. Also, the kind of games it's music is best suited for never appealed to me like arcade games did.

It doesn't age that well, either. IMO SNES music tries to sound like something it's not, creating an aural "uncanny valley" of sorts, whereas the MD/Gen's best music works better as a "homage" to what it's trying to emulate.


^^^^ All heavily, HEAVILY opinion-based though, don't take any of it as fact :)


Lynx_7 said:
I can't post links since I'm at work, but the Power Rangers games have some pretty cool high energy tracks, such as Ivan Ooze from the Movie adaptation and the boss theme from the first game.
But I have to agree the Genesis does high pumping adrenaline rush stuff better in general, though my favorite soundtracks of the era are still from SNES games.
Click to expand...
That's all good! I'm just happy we're getting to a point where people aren't needlessly writing off a particular system (usually the Genesis) and actually appreciating it's strengths without backhanded complements.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Shaneus said:
Not really knowing the game's history (although obv. there are a LOT of Amiga ports on the Genesis) that intro is such an Amiga thing, at least, an Amiga Demoscene thing. Tie in the instrument samples/playing to an animation cue on the screen, always loved that effect.


Everything else about it is pretty great, though. It's just a symptom of the format, later on I think it was updated with panning and such.

Maybe that's why I'm not so hot on SNES stuff. I love Amiga MOD tracker titles and also Genesis stuff, but the SNES is a middle-ground that doesn't sit right with me. Also, the kind of games it's music is best suited for never appealed to me like arcade games did.

It doesn't age that well, either. IMO SNES music tries to sound like something it's not, creating an aural "uncanny valley" of sorts, whereas the MD/Gen's best music works better as a "homage" to what it's trying to emulate.


^^^^ All heavily, HEAVILY opinion-based though, don't take any of it as fact :)



That's all good! I'm just happy we're getting to a point where people aren't needlessly writing off a particular system (usually the Genesis) and actually appreciating it's strengths without backhanded complements.
Click to expand...

I guess. Even with panning I don't think Amiga MODs are that great because of just four channel support. Back in the day I preferred listening to impulse tracker or S3M files, heh. The trax scene seems to be all but dead these days...
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
So I've been wondering this for a while and I never saw it being discussed. It may sound weird but uh, does anyone know what's the legality of using soundfonts from licensed SNES games for commercial purposes?

I grew up with the SNES but somehow never knew it used samples (yes, I know), so all this time when I heard covers of songs in 16bit style sounding like MMX for example, I just thought it was emulating the SNES chip to sound like MMX, but I guess they're just using Capcom's guitar samples extracted from roms, right? Are these part of the games' copyright at all?

I started wondered this recently listening to the Undertale soundtrack. Toby clearly used MMX guitar samples, some Chrono Trigger ones and FFVI ones as well, I believe.

Not that I'm judging him or any other indie who produced music like this for their games, of course. I love when they do this, but I was wondering if there's any documentation on cases where someone got in trouble for doing this, or if such a thing is possible at all.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Opa-Pa said:
So I've been wondering this for a while and I never saw it being discussed. It may sound weird but uh, does anyone know what's the legality of using soundfonts from licensed SNES games for commercial purposes?
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It's not legal. Whether anyone actually cares to enforce that is another matter though. Even though others have, I would never try to sell something made with samples ripped straight out of SNES games. I find it more fun to design my own samples within the same limitations anyhow.

There's also a new Kontakt sample library out which has tons of SNES style samples designed from scratch which you can legally use in good conscience:

https://impactsoundworks.com/product/super-audio-cart/

The whole sampling business is a big gray area. Even back in the day for commercial video games the companies didn't seem to care much. After some thorough analysis I am 99.9% sure they ripped the hit sounds straight out of the SNES SF2 port for Eternal Champions, for example (and no, this is not a case of them just being taken straight out of a generic library. The sounds in the SNES version were designed by Capcom and are thus derivative works).
 
E

Easy_D

never left the stone age
bishopcruz said:
Neither.

This one is king.

Ok, back to the actual question.

I actually like the arrangement of the Bloodlines version more than the SCIV arrangement, but the biggest issue that Bloodlines has is that the sound programming for the music isn't the best. It's a thing I have with all of the Konami genesis games, they have great music, but they don't use the YM2612 as well as they could.
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The Genesis does that twangy bass sound *so well*.

Edit: Found this cool video about a dude experimenting with waveforms on SNES hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-VfFzOQRDk would've been cool if more actual games used it, it has a charming sound to it.
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
dogen said:
He means 32x but ignores that the music was incredibly poor by genesis standards.

This compares a bit better I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBQVcf37Xc
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Some SNES fans are absolutists. Everyone SNES is better than everything MD (sometimes). You can just discount their opinions and ignore them. Those people only owned SNESs growing up. It's like the ZIKA version of console ownership - irreversible effects on the brain when that happens. sad
 
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