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So we have a 30TF GPU now. Do you still think it's a good idea to launch a 4TF "NG"-console alongside in 2020?
- Thread starter DemonCleaner
- Start date
LordOfChaos
Member
It's fine, and the calculus hasn't changed over what's been discussed to death.
A 4Tflop next gen console on the same architecture as its 12Tflop brother should be able to do 1080p-1440p where the bigger box is doing 4K + more effects. The CPU and SSD being the same and RAM being close enough enable its entry into next gen games and it'll be able to run everything the generation throws at it. GPU side scaling is much easier, that's why the CPU is the same.
If PC has a 30Tflop and more efficient card, that doesn't change anything. It's often and more often more recently been the case that soon after a consoles launch PC hardware vastly outstrips it, it's no different. PS3/360 - 8800GTX. PS4 was the impressive console but just around the 7850 which was only a mid range 239 dollar MRSP card.
A 4Tflop next gen console on the same architecture as its 12Tflop brother should be able to do 1080p-1440p where the bigger box is doing 4K + more effects. The CPU and SSD being the same and RAM being close enough enable its entry into next gen games and it'll be able to run everything the generation throws at it. GPU side scaling is much easier, that's why the CPU is the same.
If PC has a 30Tflop and more efficient card, that doesn't change anything. It's often and more often more recently been the case that soon after a consoles launch PC hardware vastly outstrips it, it's no different. PS3/360 - 8800GTX. PS4 was the impressive console but just around the 7850 which was only a mid range 239 dollar MRSP card.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Well maybe in your dreams
namekuseijin
Banned
hey, we have VR now. Do you still think it's a good idea to launch old-school flat games now relying on limited button-based control inputs from the 80s?
hey, we have analog sticks now, do you still think it's a great idea to play with NES-style digital wasd keyboard?
hey, we have rockets now, do you still think it's a good idea to remain on planet Earth with its stupid inhabitants?
hey, we have analog sticks now, do you still think it's a great idea to play with NES-style digital wasd keyboard?
hey, we have rockets now, do you still think it's a good idea to remain on planet Earth with its stupid inhabitants?
RockstarBeaver
Neo Member
I guess we need a 30tf card after all.
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Astral Dog
Member
The Switch is a real portable device, lockhart is a budget friendly(still not sure how much) weaker home console there might be a large market for it but we have to see, when Microsoft feels like showing it
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I do not think that there is going to be Witcher 4 or GTA 6
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
The 3090 seems more like a work card than gaming. The 3080 is already insanely powerful for gaming, 3090 is overkill.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
It's too much power...said no one ever.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
What's wrong with so much power, it's like refusing too much money. Give me more power, drive the industry forward.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
My post was meant to be like your post. Just a confirmation of what you said.
GHG
Gold Member
LordOfChaos
Member
Surprised by all the comments about it being overkill. We're starting a new generation, and this too in time will be tapped out. We've seen it so many times before.
The generation that just beats the new console launch is also usually a good buying point for something incredibly long lasting. I could see this being the 8800GTX, the 2500K, staying relevant for the generation, by the end of it it won't feel like overkill.
The generation that just beats the new console launch is also usually a good buying point for something incredibly long lasting. I could see this being the 8800GTX, the 2500K, staying relevant for the generation, by the end of it it won't feel like overkill.
888
Member
Empire Strikes Back
Member
PC GPUs aren’t what defines console generations.
VN1X
Banned
Krisprolls
Banned
Apples and oranges. Teraflops from another architecture mean nothing, that's why 3080 doesn't do that much better than 2080Ti while having tons more teraflops. Basically, stop eating up Nvidia and MS marketing.
TF means nothing in itself by the way. It's a theorical max operations per seconds. Which operation ? Which architecture ? Who cares, all I want is a big number.
But hey it worked for MS with Xbox fanboys, and now it seems it will also make Nvidia fanboys buy $1400 cards (while real world difference with 2xxx series is strangely not that big despite the huge Tflops difference) so more power to Nvidia.
TF means nothing in itself by the way. It's a theorical max operations per seconds. Which operation ? Which architecture ? Who cares, all I want is a big number.
But hey it worked for MS with Xbox fanboys, and now it seems it will also make Nvidia fanboys buy $1400 cards (while real world difference with 2xxx series is strangely not that big despite the huge Tflops difference) so more power to Nvidia.
BattleScar
Member
You can post this image, but the reality is that half those vector ALU's are sitting idle most of the time. There is neither enough bandwidth nor a powerful enough scheduler to utilise all those FP operations.
Besides, graphics don't exclusively utilise floating point mathematics anyway.
30TF to beat a 16TF GPU by ~30-35% with 100W more power consumption.
You quite easily could argue that its a waste of resources.
CrysisFreak
Banned
Kids with Lockharts will be bullied for having a loser console lmao.
At least Nintendo kids get some empathy for their autism but Lockhart? Ouchie.
At least Nintendo kids get some empathy for their autism but Lockhart? Ouchie.
I don't think the TF 4 number is the most important thing. Its ray tracing or path tracing that will be the differentiation. The Nvidia Marbles demo is the most impressive thing I've seen so far. Its approaching the "uncanny valley" where compute graphics are getting closer to the real thing.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I'm extremely happy with what Nvidia did, I hope AMD doesn't disappoint. Those only make mid-refreshes inevitable, and the rumored 72CU chiplet/stacked (20.6TF+) for PS5 Pro more obvious to happen in 3-4 years from now.
MilkyJoe
Member
I don't think so, Tim.
Tqaulity
Member
THIS! Beat my to it but it's the truth. 3x the TFLOPs in the RTX 3080 over the RTX 2080 (for rasterization) but only <2x the performance increase. How's that for the efficiency argument that many people on here either can't get or just ignore!
BTW, no knock on Nvidia. That 80% increase gen on gen is a tremendous increase and great accomplish. Just don't pay attention to the TFLOPs alone
El Pistolero
Banned
Minecraft super maxed out. Overkill that will go to waste, like most graphic cards. But you can not blame them for producing them by the month; There is a segment of the market that keeps coughing the dough repeatedly...
TheGrat1
Member
It is a good idea to Microsoft because it follows their "Xbox is a family of devices this gen" gameplan.
Is it a good idea for pushing gaming forward? No, it never was. But the unveiling of a 30TF GPU does not change anything in the slightest. The upper bound does not matter from this perspective, only the lower.
Is it a good idea for pushing gaming forward? No, it never was. But the unveiling of a 30TF GPU does not change anything in the slightest. The upper bound does not matter from this perspective, only the lower.
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Bonfires Down
Member
Yes, I think it's a good business move. But I expect that the S will be doing some sort of reconstruction from 720p or so for most games.
michaelius
Banned
sncvsrtoip
Member
well if 30tf is for 60fps 4k so this 4tf would be kinda ok for 30fps 1080p
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Wonderful card for 8K gaming, justifies buying 8K TV's. But a new HDMI higher than 2.1 and a new DP 2.0 is necessary now.
StateofMajora
Banned
My take : Ampere is good news for Nintendo. Even a mobile version of it in a year or two should kick base PS4's ass.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Assuming it will not melt on your hands, and that would be a dream handheld. The insane power consumption of the new cards shouldn't be compared to handhelds, but I think 3nm would bring that and more to handheld.
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GHG
Gold Member
Why?
It's not crazy to think that the 3060 won't be in the realm of 10 TF and the 3050ti which is entry level will be around the 7-8tf range.
So why does a "next gen" 4tf box need to exist in 2020?
Agnostic2020
Member
Series s with 4 Gb of Ram allocated to GPU(4 GB GPU, 3.5 GB CPU ,2.5 GB OS) was always bad idea regardless of NVidia.no next gen destruction for XSS. Which means same for XSX .
GHG
Gold Member
The real win for Nintendo will be DLSS. Could be massive for them if they can get it working and accessible for all developers.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Does the OP realise that the vast majority of the video game buying public don’t give two rosy red shits about how many tflops something has?
They want to see games. That’s what will sell them on a new console or PC. Nothing else matters.
Ever.
They want to see games. That’s what will sell them on a new console or PC. Nothing else matters.
Ever.
Tranquil
Member
The 30TF GPU costs $699.00
danielJackson
Banned
And what then when in the end of the gen there is a possibility that some devs want to do game that looks glorious on 12tflops machine, but runs 1440p? they drop 4tflops version into 720p or make it look like a turd?
This 4 tflops machine is just a bad idea (maybe good business idea) for graphics, it is basically last gen system that have to be taken into account when making games. Yes same cpu/ssd etc. but GPU is just so slow vs 12tflops one that there is no way that devs can do the best looking game they want, by lowering resolution. Because then it wont work on slower system without too big compromises.
So I dont think that it is a good idea with or without having 30TFlop monsters around, and if these monsters get cheap and popular in 2-3 years, how does MS explain that they just have to run 4k on 12tflop system and keep expectations of how good games look, low.
That is still RIDICULOUSLY expensive to casuals. They buy prebuild machines that cost 500-1000$/€ so it is a day dream that huge masses would pay that much for GPU only.
Most casual pc gamers use older/slower hardware that you think, only "hardcore gamers" use higher end stuff that makes total price of the build around 1500-2500€/$.
So, maybe see what 150-300€/$ GPUs have to offer, because those are for the masses, and still many use even cheaper stuff to game.
And comparing to budget consoles doesnt work if one part costs more than a console.
People whom start from zero have to spend some hundreds to mouse+kb+monitor+pc desk + windows license to begin with, unless they use TV+controller and then they just buy a console.
Decent gaming pc costs 2-3x more than console total, when taking everything into the sum.
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michaelius
Banned
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
The Xbox series S might make a good secondary console for a bed room or something, maybe even in one of them portable set ups But that’s about it. Maybe take advantage of xcloud and stream more graphic intense games.
would have to be cheap, an Apple TV is $200, much more then that is a major ask even it does play more games. Prob $300 max really.
would have to be cheap, an Apple TV is $200, much more then that is a major ask even it does play more games. Prob $300 max really.
LordOfChaos
Member
They turn down the glory on the weaker box.
I think 1080p or at the very least 900p will be a line most will not want crossed next gen. There's so many dials to turn, turn down the AA, turn down the AF, remove some shader effects, lower the tessellation, people keep painting this as impossible when it's already entirely commonplace.
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