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[The Blue Jihad]

to people who are worries about physics , this is a game where hedgehogs run and robot fight. physics does not have to be realistic as long as they are fine and fun within game although in this case from what i read here it might not be.

...er, who said anything about wanting realistic physics? I know I just want consistent physics within the same damn game. Look at some of the animated gifs posted in this thread. Do you see consistent physics? Sometimes Sonic catches a wall. Other times he doesn't. Sometimes he strolls up a 90-degree vertical incline. Sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he gets a speed boost upon hitting a ramp. Sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he builds momentum in a loop-de-loop. Sometimes he doesn't.

Noticing a pattern here?

I assure you that nobody within their right mind is expecting "realistic" physics. We're just expecting consistent physics that don't break down right before our eyes.

And let's not even touch the minecart movement issues...

 

[JoeFu]

OH PHYSICS WHERE ART THOU!?

Thank you mama, I lost it even more at that part.

 

[RobbieNick]

Remember when people were saying "It's Sonic Rush 3"? I'd rather have Sonic Rush 3 at this point.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Remember when people were saying "It's Sonic Rush 3"? I'd rather have Sonic Rush 3 at this point.

Sonic Rush 3DS actually.

 

[abstract alien]

Sonic Rush 3DS actually.

I actually want this, so long as it isn't like Rush Adventure and more like the first one.

 

[ColtraineGF]

Hmm, I wonder if there are any dates on a demo of some sort.

It's like 2-3 months away, right? Or maybe that would come after those ??? signs on the site are gone.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Alright, I am now caught up with this thread.

Act 1: it looks alright, I guess. The entire damn level is just fucking Casino Night Zone minus the pinball machines, though. And as much as I love Casino Night, I've been playing it for eighteen years. I don't need a creatively bankrupt level that's just like it.

Act 2: great, another shitty gimmick level that has fuck all to do with Sonic!

Act 3: I'll be honest, even with the over-reliance on cannons, I was intrigued by this level at first. Even though it looked like it could be automatic and come down to chance in places, it looked like there was some platforming in this level. Actual platforming - the kind that requires more than just running to the right and occasionally hitting the homing attack button!

And then I got to the part where you HAVE to use the homing attack on an enemy bridge or else you plummet to your death in a bottomless pit.

Fuck this goddamn game and everything it stands for. You win, Sega. You've finally convinced me not to buy this piece of shit.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

And like a woman's monthly cycle, it can only end in bloodshed.

what is it with you and menstrual cycles, urgh

 

[RobbieNick]

what is it with you and menstrual cycles, urgh

What the hell are you talking about? This is the first joke I made like that.

 

[Teknoman]

And then I got to the part where you HAVE to use the homing attack on an enemy bridge or else you plummet to your death in a bottomless pit.

Fuck this goddamn game and everything it stands for. You win, Sega. You've finally convinced me not to buy this piece of shit.

Rewatch it. You dont have to homing attack to avoid falling into a pit, there are springs/whatever those bouncy objects are, under the badniks. The pit is on the other side of the Crawler, and the "enemy bridge" can be bounced on without the homing attack. Its best to not even try and homing attack the crawler, unless you're just going to land right next to it.

EDIT: At 4:30, the player traverses the enemies without the attack.

 

[RobbieNick]

This game is slowly becoming the "Sonic '06" of 2-D Sonic games. I'm praying, PRAYING this is still in Beta and they're working on the wonky physics. "SIGH!" Even then, where's the challenge? Also, the game looks short. Like you could breeze through it in a half hour.

 

[DeVeAn]

You do not deserve to have that sonic avatar after saying that.

So what must I do to keep my avatar? Agree with everything everyone dislikes about the game? There are 2 more episodes that complete the game as far as I know.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Yeah I bet those other two episodes will be great too. Sega will really take a long, hard look at what they got wrong in this one and make it all better, giving us the game we all want. Just like Sonic Unleashed.

And Sonic 2K6.

And Sonic Advance 3.

And Sonic Heroes.

And Sonic Advance 2.

And Sonic and the Black Knight.

And Sonic Adventure 2.

 

[Zen]

This game is slowly becoming the "Sonic '06" of 2-D Sonic games. I'm praying, PRAYING this is still in Beta and they're working on the wonky physics. "SIGH!" Even then, where's the challenge? Also, the game looks short. Like you could breeze through it in a half hour.

This game doesn't look anything like Sonic 06. You think a throw away gimmick act 2 and some less than ideal but fully functional physics makes this game a broken mess?

 

[Nabs]

This game is slowly becoming the "Sonic '06" of 2-D Sonic games. I'm praying, PRAYING this is still in Beta and they're working on the wonky physics. "SIGH!" Even then, where's the challenge? Also, the game looks short. Like you could breeze through it in a half hour.

the guy playing is horrible, and he's running through it like it's nothing.

 

[ColtraineGF]

This game is slowly becoming the "Sonic '06" of 2-D Sonic games. I'm praying, PRAYING this is still in Beta and they're working on the wonky physics. "SIGH!" Even then, where's the challenge? Also, the game looks short. Like you could breeze through it in a half hour.

You know, you could at least wait until the game comes out and you or other people play it before you throw such a blanket statement like that.

 

[Zen]

Why bother when hyperbole dramatics are so much more fun and unreasonable.

You do not deserve to have that sonic avatar after saying that.

You really have the audacity to to tell another poster what he does and doesn't deserve based off his opinion of a decent (If not worthy of Sonic 4 as the title/appeasement) looking game. He has the right to his opinion just as much as anyone and he certainly doesn't deserve to have his 'rights' as a 'real fan' taken away because his opinion differs from yours.

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

oh come on PLEASE tell me they are gonna fix these damn animations. The walking, the flipping thru the air instead of being rolled into a ball like he should be, the running, WHAT THE EFF. everything is so damn slow then to top it off they have these slow ass elevator music style songs.

 

[Sciz]

So what must I do to keep my avatar? Agree with everything everyone dislikes about the game? There are 2 more episodes that complete the game as far as I know.

Episode 1 appears to be feature complete. I assume hope it's undergoing the sort of bug testing and tweaking you'd expect in a beta phase, but it isn't going to change significantly. The team is very likely well into preproduction of Episode 2 by now. There is no reason or precedent to suggest the design will significantly differ between the two, or that any complaints about said design will be heard and acted upon.

He doesn't think that having different objectives in a few acts is a bad thing, oh my god.

"Different objectives" is one facet of the problem that's been plaguing the series for over a decade now (it didn't really work for Sonic CD, despite its best efforts). Sonic 4's implementation of different objectives goes the extra mile to be, by all appearances, objectively bad.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This is how I visualize this thread

 

[ThatObviousUser]

So what must I do to keep my avatar? Agree with everything everyone dislikes about the game? There are 2 more episodes that complete the game as far as I know.

And from what we've heard the only thing they "improve" is to add friends.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I still think you guys are overreacting. Granted, it'll probably be an OK game in the end.

 

[DeVeAn]

Episode 1 appears to be feature complete. I assume hope it's undergoing the sort of bug testing and tweaking you'd expect in a beta phase, but it isn't going to change significantly. The team is very likely well into preproduction of Episode 2 by now. There is no reason or precedent to suggest the design will significantly differ between the two, or that any complaints about said design will be heard and acted upon.


"Different objectives" is one facet of the problem that's been plaguing the series for over a decade now (it didn't really work for Sonic CD, despite its best efforts). Sonic 4's implementation of different objectives goes the extra mile to be, by all appearances, objectively bad.

What I meant buy " 2 more episodes" was toward the comment of the "gimmick acts" not being a real act. My bad. I am not suggesting the other 2 will be "fixed". Damn thats a lot of quotes.

 

[Zen]

I still think you guys are overreacting. Granted, it'll probably be an OK game in the end.

If live has taught me anything it's that the trend put forward by collective incompetence is a very real and observable phenomenon.

 

[wRATH2x]

uhm....no

Wow, could have sworn it was Sonic.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

I still think you guys are overreacting. Granted, it'll probably be an OK game in the end.

Yeah, fuck us for having the audacity to demand Sonic 4 be something other than halfway decent and in some way resemble the classic games it claims to aspire towards aside from soullessly ripping off level design ideas and bosses. How could we be so inconsiderate?

If live has taught me anything it's that the trend put forward by collective incompetence is a very real and observable phenomenon.

Funny how you tried to use this to demerit us and instead made a statement that says a lot more about Sega.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Yeah I bet those other two episodes will be great too. Sega will really take a long, hard look at what they got wrong in this one and make it all better, giving us the game we all want. Just like Sonic Unleashed.

Man, Sonic Unleashed really was a "hard look" at what was wrong, regardless of how good or bad you think the game is. Tonally, it is very different from pretty much every 3D Sonic game ever produced.

Hubs are remarkably tiny, each one no bigger than the size of Princess Peach's castle in Mario 64.

Cookie-cutter NPCs have almost entirely been replaced with a uniquely designed character with a name and a sub-plot thread (almost all of which can simply be ignored, if you don't care). There has to be at least 20 or 30 of these NPCs spread across the entire game.

Most, if not all decrepit remnants of "classic Sonic" have been cast aside in favor of a new direction for the Sonic levels - one that follows the course charted by games like Sonic Rush and Secret Rings. You might think it's linear and scripted, but that's just like, your opinion, man (a lot of people hold similar complaints against Half-Life).

There are no shields, no speed shoes, no invincibility - no item monitors at all anywhere to speak of at all. The closest thing are the "10 Ring" items, which are now just really big rings with a "10" in them.

The actual cast of meaningful characters has been significantly paired down and all of the useless baggage was cut loose. There's no Shadow, no Knuckles, no Rouge the Bat or Big the Cat. Werehog stupidity aside, it is a game about Sonic. It's his spotlight and he's the only one standing in it. Everybody else - Tails, Chip, etc. are strictly relegated to roles that support Sonic as the main character, as they should be.

Yes, the game was brought down by a couple of awkward design decisions (most of which seem to be geared towards padding the length of the game out), but that does not change the fact that it really was a very different Sonic game than we would usually get.

But I guess nobody notices that when they're too busy Sonic cycle circle jerking.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I still hold that if the whole thing came out on a disc and wasn't called Sonic 4 we'd have a NSMBW situation on our hands. Maybe not as well-received critically or commercially, but it could definitely have come close.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

But I guess nobody notices that when they're too busy Sonic cycle circle jerking.

I noticed the tone difference immediately even though I never played any other 3D Sonic game except for Rings, just having watched a couple vids of them. Unleashed's heart was definitely in the right place but Sonic Team screwed the pooch even so.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I still find Sonic's running animation to be terribly awkward. It takes WAY too long to go from brisk walk to blurry legs, the puffs of smoke during the walk just looks ridiculous, and he looks very stiff throughout. Why didn't they just copy the way he animated in Brawl? That was the most perfect 3D Sonic I've ever seen.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Funny how you tried to use this to demerit us and instead made a statement that says a lot more about Sega.

He wasn't talking about Sega? :lol He mad.

But I guess nobody notices that when they're too busy Sonic cycle circle jerking.

Not everyone is so forgiving about awkward design to pad the game out.

"Sonic Unleashed was decent but could be better."

 

[Dark Machine]

I still find Sonic's running animation to be terribly awkward. It takes WAY too long to go from brisk walk to blurry legs, the puffs of smoke during the walk just looks ridiculous, and he looks very stiff throughout. Why didn't they just copy the way he animated in Brawl? That was the most perfect 3D Sonic I've ever seen.

Again. Nintendo now makes the best Sonic games...greatest irony in video games if you ask me.

 

[evangd007]

Again. Nintendo now makes the best Sonic games...greatest irony in video games if you ask me.

This fact almost makes me wish the Sonic in Galaxy 2 rumor was not complete bullshit.

Honestly, Casino Street Act 2 I could have lived with... if the actual pinball board didn't completely suck.

 

[Zen]

Funny how you tried to use this to demerit us and instead made a statement that says a lot more about Sega.

You assume too little of the scope of my statement.

If someone came to me and characterized Sega, overly demanding Sonic fans, and not demanding enough Sonic fans, as a group of equally incompetent tunnel visioned monkeys flinging shit at each other, I wouldn't disagree with them outright.

 

[Sciz]

What I meant buy " 2 more episodes" was toward the comment of the "gimmick acts" not being a real act. My bad. I am not suggesting the other 2 will be "fixed". Damn thats a lot of quotes.

If you genuinely want another ~16 normal acts of the sort we've seen so far, that's great. I hope you enjoy them.

But I guess nobody notices that when they're too busy Sonic cycle circle jerking.

The problem with Unleashed is that it didn't really matter how much got cut and overhauled for the better when those awkward design decisions were the same basic mistakes they've been making over and over in yet another form. Moving the game to a Rush-style design was probably a good choice, since that seems to be all they're capable of producing competently these days, but even that doesn't help when the rest of the core is still rotten (which is to say that even if those extra elements aren't bad, no one wants them in the game to begin with).

 

[Dark Machine]

This fact almost makes me wish the Sonic in Galaxy 2 rumor was not complete bullshit.

Honestly, Casino Street Act 2 I could have lived with... if the actual pinball board didn't completely suck.

If I wanted levels entirely based on that, I'd go play Sonic Spinball. If I wanted mine cart levels, I'd play Donkey Kong Country on the Wii VC, because they were actually GOOD.

With Sonic, I want to run, and I want to jump. And Sega can't even get THAT right...;_;

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Not everyone is so forgiving about awkward design to pad the game out.

"Sonic Unleashed was decent but could be better."

I would argue that the only reason everyone wasn't so forgiving is because they were judging Sonic Unleashed too heavily on the sins of other games.

I've always said that I cannot blame people for being fed up with bad Sonic games. But when people start letting their frustration with a past game cloud their judgment on a current game, that's when I take issue. Video games are not people you have to eternally punish for something "they" did years ago (but neither should purchasing a game on blind faith be encouraged).

A good game in a bad legacy should still be recognized as a good game. If Sonic Unleashed came out before Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 2006, it would have received very, very different criticisms.

 

[RobbieNick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSQKWNuCLNw

Sonic 4 Mine Cart in WarioWare D.I.Y.

 

[Teknoman]

Well Sega, I guess you'll be adding a 2010 section to your avatar?

Also looking at the stage videos again, homing attacks really dont seem to be that mandatory. Taking the aspect ratio into account, and seeing that its actually possible to get past a set of enemies without the attack (Casino Road Act 3 last half), somewhat normal Sonic gameplay seems possible.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

You assume too little of the scope of my statement. In fact if someone characterized Sega, the overly demanding Sonic fans, and the not demanding enough Sonic fans as a group of equally incompetent tunnel visioned monkeys flinging shit at each other, I wouldn't disagree with them outright.

Are you included among these monkeys?

 

[ShadiWulf]

Everyone complaining and foaming at the mouth just needs to calm down

You don't have any chance enjoying the game when you watch all the levels on youtube and form opinions based on that before even playing it yourself.

Just get some After Burner Climax later this April and move on with life. A bad Sonic game isn't the end of the world like you are all making it out to be. I doubt it's bad as Sonic 06.

 

[Zen]

Are you included among these monkeys?

I'm a part of the 4th group, or monkey in this case, that gets pissed off and flings shit at all the other monkey's because they're all flinging shit at each other.

I never said that my metaphors are perfect.

Some people might categorize me as 'too forgiving'? Maybe I am, who's to say really. I had a very good post written up for Iknos a while back about my low standards, subjectively speaking, for this game, maybe I'll still post it. It would help people understand where I'm coming from.

 

[RobbieNick]

Everyone complaining and foaming at the mouth just needs to calm down

You don't have any chance enjoying the game when you watch all the levels on youtube and form opinions based on that before even playing it yourself.

Just get some After Burner Climax later this April and move on with life. A bad Sonic game isn't the end of the world like you are all making it out to be. I doubt it's bad as Sonic 06.

BUT WITHOUT A GOOD SONIC GAME MY LIFE HAS NO MEANI- AfterBurner Climax you say?

 

[timetokill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSQKWNuCLNw

Sonic 4 Mine Cart in WarioWare D.I.Y.

that looks significantly more fun than the Sonic 4 version

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I would argue that the only reason everyone wasn't so forgiving is because they were judging Sonic Unleashed too heavily on the sins of other games.

I've always said that I cannot blame people for being fed up with bad Sonic games. But when people start letting their frustration with a past game cloud their judgment on a current game, that's when I take issue. Video games are not people you have to eternally punish for something "they" did years ago (but neither should purchasing a game on blind faith be encouraged).

A good game in a bad legacy should still be recognized as a good game. If Sonic Unleashed came out before Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 2006, it would have received very, very different criticisms.

Eh. You don't know that.

I think Sonic Unleashed on a completely different IP would have received middling at best reviews and reception. Games always get knocked down for having parts that stop the momentum and pad for time. I know you have complained about disliking Wind Waker for that exact reason.

We'll never know because Unleashed released as a Sonic game and Sonic games have negative associations tied to them. It's easy to say people should judge it as its own game, but brand association works both ways and Sega could have easily made it a different game if they wanted to.

 

[Stat Flow]

Unleashed was pretty meh bad. The Werehog ruined the game for me and while the Sonic sections were fun, too much emphasis on speed.

 

[ColtraineGF]

Unleashed was pretty meh good. The Werehog was an interesting, yet flawed aspect of the game for me, and the Sonic sections were fun.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Eh. You don't know that.

I think Sonic Unleashed on a completely different IP would have received middling at best reviews and reception. Games always get knocked down for having parts that stop the momentum and pad for time. I know you have complained about disliking Wind Waker for that exact reason.

We'll never know because Unleashed released as a Sonic game and Sonic games have negative associations tied to them. It's easy to say people should judge it as its own game, but brand association works both ways and Sega could have easily made it a different game if they wanted to.

"Middling at best" is still probably better than what Sonic Unleashed ended up getting. A lot of people seemed to be faulting the game for things that weren't actually a big deal on their own - they were only perceived as a big deal because of how they were represented in other, worse games.

Like how the Wii version got a lot more praise simply because instead of a hub you walk around, you're instead presented with a static image where you select NPC names from a menu list. Something like that doesn't actually remove what made the hubs suck, and as I've heard, Unleashed on the Wii is actually a lot more strict about forcing you to talk to people (whereas in the 360 version, you're only ever forced to talk to two or three people throughout the entire course of the game).

 

[Big One]

Eh. You don't know that.

I think Sonic Unleashed on a completely different IP would have received middling at best reviews and reception. Games always get knocked down for having parts that stop the momentum and pad for time. I know you have complained about disliking Wind Waker for that exact reason.

We'll never know because Unleashed released as a Sonic game and Sonic games have negative associations tied to them. It's easy to say people should judge it as its own game, but brand association works both ways and Sega could have easily made it a different game if they wanted to.

This is true. I do like that Unleashed actually fixed quite a lot of the glitches and problems from the Adventure - Sonic 2006 despite introducing it's own mishaps and problems. It was a unique little platforming game. I still say they should've called is Sonic R 2, though, cause as a Sonic racing game it would've made for a truly great spinoff.

Anyway I actually liked what I saw from Sonic 4 till the minecart. That whole level completely ruined it for me. I actually liked that the Sunset Hill levels had multiple paths for Sonic to go through like the classic games, but a lot of it felt too similar to the other "Hill" levels, like directly similar to the point of stealing level layouts from them. The minecart level looks like absolute shit control-wise and looks like it has just as much problems mechanic-wise as every other 3D and 2D modern Sonic game.

 

[Iknos]

He has the right to his opinion just as much as anyone and he certainly doesn't deserve to have his 'rights' as a 'real fan' taken away because his opinion differs from yours.

He certainly does.

Can you imagine a poster with a Pantera avatar and he repeatedly asks for the band to start making techno music?

:lol

Same deal.