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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas

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Is it wrong to say that I hated Shadow the Hedgehog worse than Sonic 06?

I mean, at least I could BEAT Sonic 06. But Shadow....the vehicles, the guns, that one dark mission where I just kept going and going with NO EXIT WHATSOEVER. And let's not forget about:

Find_the_Computer_Room_by_adamis.png
 

Zen

Banned
I don't think that Sega will take the wrong lesson from Sonic Generations. If anything it might just mean that the next game from Sonic Generations guys also ends up on the WiiU or whatnot. Honestly? I'm shocked that is shipped that much; I remember some leaked NPD data from back in the day for Unleashed that had pretty dismal numbers for the HD versions.

It's not even a question that Sonic 06 did long term damage to the series. On a brighter note, it's safe to say that the Generations numbers almost assured well above what Sonic Unleashed did on both platforms in a similar timeframe. Sonic Colors and the positive reception to Generations will help out future releases.
 
Is it wrong to say that I hated Shadow the Hedgehog worse than Sonic 06?

Eh. I mean neither of them are good, but I think Shadow is the better game. Its problems, outside of the core issue of who the hell ever though an OMG GUNS AND LIGHT SWEARING Sonic spin off was ever a good idea, are either shared with its series contemporaries (it basically feels like a slightly worse Heroes in terms of controls) or ultimately the result of failing to capitalise on what could potentially be decent ideas (the branching stage lines, hero/villain objectives). 06's problems, on the other hand, are more fundamental. Its really just all kinds of mediocre and an obvious misstep.

I think, at its core, there's a better game than Shadow buried within 06. It's pretty evident that they set out to make Sonic 06 as a Sonic Adventure 3, because nearly all of its design problems stem back to those games. The story's shit, but it sits well enough as an evolution of the melodrama started in Sonic Adventure. The humans are too realistic, but a lot of that is to do with the technical difference between the Dreamcast/Gamecube and the PS360; they weren't exactly super cartoony in the Adventure games either. There's not enough to do in the hubs. The only true design supershit that Sonic 06 can call its own are the execrable Mach Speed sections, all the rest are callbacks to the Sonic Adventure games.

Even without the technical issues like the ridiculously inefficient load times and the worst-the-series-has-seen handling/physics Sonic 06 wouldn't be a great game, but it'd probably sit somewhere between Adventure 2 and Heroes as decent when it works and medicore at worst. It really is the slew of technical/handling problems that make it truly loathsome and Shadow is the better game purely by virtue of not being as badly put together.
 
I did the unthinkable yesterday and double dipped on sonic episode 1. I originally got it on PSN and was not impressed. However the other day I downloaded it off android market. I did not expect much difference but I was wrong. It feels like the game was created with mobile devices as the lead platform then ported poorly to console. It could be just me but I think the mobile controls are better than the controls on psn/xbl. Am I the only person who noticed the difference between platforms?
 

Shiggy

Member
I did the unthinkable yesterday and double dipped on sonic episode 1. I originally got it on PSN and was not impressed. However the other day I downloaded it off android market. I did not expect much difference but I was wrong. It feels like the game was created with mobile devices as the lead platform then ported poorly to console. It could be just me but I think the mobile controls are better than the controls on psn/xbl. Am I the only person who noticed the difference between platforms?

I don't know. The iPhone version was pretty bad, so was the Wii version. It's certainly not a game I would pay money for.
 
I do have to wonder if Sonic 2006 just turned people off from buying Sonic games on HD systems no matter what, though.
it's not just Sonic 06, the combination of Sonic Heroes + Shadow the Hedgehog + Sonic 06 + Sonic Unleashed + Sonic Episode 1 did massive damage to the franchise's weak points on HD systems & pissed of so many older core gamers that they just flat out refuse to give Sonic another chance at full price day one anymore.
 
Woah, hold up now. Unleashed was pretty much universally lauded for being a step in the right direction and from what we know of sales, consumers treated S4 as the second coming.
a small tiny step in the right direction for a franchise that has been universally labelled as rollin down the shite-hill zone since the 90's (or early 00's depending on the height of the pedestals you put SA games on) Also you & i both know that there's a tiny difference between it sold well for a dd title and people treated as the second coming. I mean even Sega accepted that the physics & controls were broken in Episode 1 and said they will be fixed for the Episode 2 in their PR. Add in the fact all that the level design in Episode 1 is just a rehash of a 20 year old platformer you'll begin to realize how much of a success that game really is.
 

Sciz

Member
Woah, hold up now. Unleashed was pretty much universally lauded for being a step in the right direction

In between people laughing at the werehog, yes. Two steps forward, one step back is okay from a game design perspective, but it doesn't do anything for your marketing.
 

TheOGB

Banned
Too bad about Generations, but now it's time for a music break.

Goddamn, I need to get the soundtracks for the past two Mario & Sonics. Hell, tracks like this (or this (or this)) make me want to run to the store and buy the game right now.
 

Berordn

Member
I mean even Sega accepted that the physics & controls were broken in Episode 1 and said they will be fixed for the Episode 2 in their PR. Add in the fact all that the level design in Episode 1 is just a rehash of a 20 year old platformer you'll begin to realize how much of a success that game really is.

Sega also told me that Ep. 1 was Sonic 4 as I truly imagined it. Sega says a lot of things.

In between people laughing at the werehog, yes. Two steps forward, one step back is okay from a game design perspective, but it doesn't do anything for your marketing.

Naturally, I was just pointing out that his trend he was trying to track is as broken as the Sonic Cycle. Sonic 4 also has a higher metacritic average across the board than Unleashed does, and that's where the beloved Colors and Generations stem from.

I guess most people can see that the sales are just poor because the fanbase is split across the Wii and HD twins anyway, so that was kind of pointless of me.
 
I've only played two sonic games in my life. Sonic 1 and Sonic on Game Gear. I'm always interested in anything Sonic related on the internet, then I decided I wanted to get back into Sonic, so I thought the best way to do that is buy Generations. It should arrive today.

I will post my impressions when I finish that game. How do you guys think someone who isn't exposed a lot to 'new 2D and 3D' Sonic will like it?

(Haven't played the demo)
 

qq more

Member
More like the best remake ever. All the problems of the original translated to a 2D plane. Amazing.

I love how they even made the enemy/hazard placement so POOR as if they actually want to make a bad game out of this.


(Actually, I pray to god the fan-game was purposely bad)


EDIT: @Steve, you might love the game but Modern Sonic will be a bit hard to handle the first time though since he's so fasssttt. (Just don't abuse BOOST and you'll be fine.)
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Don't take this as me saying that I like it, because I really really don't, but what didn't you like about it?
I posted this on Sega forums.

After all these years, I've finally played this game. Before this game even came out, I saw all the trailers and I just didn't pick this game up because to me, it seemed like they were trying to turn Sonic into something it's not.

For a while now, I've been wanting to try this game. I didn't really know what to expect other than "That damn 4th Chaos Emerald!", and I can easily say that I dodged a bullet(nopunsallowed).

First off, this game is wrapped around the definition of edgy. From the bullet menu sounds, font, explosions, and dialogue, etc, you can easily tell what they were trying with this game. While I thought it was humorous, that's not really the issue I have with this game.

Issues with the game.

1. Movement
The movement is quite slippery, I felt like Shadow bathed his rocket shoes in butter.
2. Slow gameplay
Every single thing about the gameplay in this is slow. The running, the falling, and the jumping feels like i'm playing the game in slow-mo. When you get hit in this game, it kinda reminds me of Power Rangers, you know that part when they get hit, and everything is so slow and dramatic? Pretty much this.
3. Weapons
What's the deal with weapons being 3x+ bigger than Shadow? And they really don't add anything to the gameplay, they're just there.
4.Too much stuff going on
There really is just too many things going on, it's hard to even tell what you're doing some times.
5. The bad guy
He's like the embodiment of villains from Saturday morning cartoons.

To me, this game is certainly up there with the worst Sonic games.
"Death to all who apose me."
 

Sciz

Member
Too bad about Generations, but now it's time for a music break.

Goddamn, I need to get the soundtracks for the past two Mario & Sonics. Hell, tracks like this (or this (or this)) make me want to run to the store and buy the game right now.

Do I get to say I told you so yet? The music's by the same sound team we know and love, and they've been busy knocking it out of the park and completely embarrassing the hell out of Nintendo's sound team in the process. I've had plans to put up a proper post about it here somewhere down the line ever since we started talking about a community thread.
 

BlackJace

Member
I can't seem to come to which Sonic Adventure game had the best story. SA1's story about Chaos and the ancient Echidna tribe was really deep, but SA2's widespread story was pretty dark as well. And don't even get me started about the Last story in SA2. That still gives me goosebumps.

What do you guys think? Which Sonic Adventure game had the best, and darkest story? And would you like that trend to continue in another massive Sonic game?
 

OMG Aero

Member
I can't seem to come to which Sonic Adventure game had the best story. SA1's story about Chaos and the ancient Echidna tribe was really deep, but SA2's widespread story was pretty dark as well. And don't even get me started about the Last story in SA2. That still gives me goosebumps.

What do you guys think? Which Sonic Adventure game had the best, and darkest story? And would you like that trend to continue in another massive Sonic game?

I don't think these two are the same thing, and no I don't want that trend to come back. Colours, Generations and to a lesser extent Unleashed pulled the series back on track and just made the games about Eggman doing something bad and Sonic has to stop him. Sonic does not need a dark and deep storyline in the same way that Mario doesn't.
If I had to pick between the two I would say that the first game had the better story. Sonic Adventure 2 was the start of the terrible "Hey let's give this series about a blue anthropomorphic hedgehog a super serious storyline" trend that plagued the series for a while and eventually led to Sonic 2006. Sonic Adventure 1 did the putting Sonic in the real world thing way better in that there were just cities with humans in it and Sonic and co just sort of ran through them from level to level, but then Sonic Adventure 2 made the whole thing fucking stupid and had the military coming after Sonic and Sonic and Tails meeting the president.

Also helps that Sonic Adventure 1 had Gamma in it and his story is probably the best story thing done in the entire series.
 

Sciz

Member
SA1's was lighter and better for it by a wide margin. The characters all had clear and obvious motivations, and their arcs interlocked in interesting ways without getting obnoxious about it. And Chaos is the only giant monster the series has had that managed to be a constant threat the whole way through the game while being an actual character at the same time.

SA2's tone was incredibly far out of line for the series (hey guys Robotnik's holding Amy hostage at gunpoint- no wait, now he just killed Sonic in front of his friends and it's all Tails' fault. What the hell, Sega?) and if we're lucky '06 killed the likes of it off for good.
 

BlackJace

Member
I don't think these two are the same thing, and no I don't want that trend to come back. Colours, Generations and to a lesser extent Unleashed pulled the series back on track and just made the games about Eggman doing something bad and Sonic has to stop him. Sonic does not need a dark and deep storyline in the same way that Mario doesn't.
If I had to pick between the two I would say that the first game had the better story. Sonic Adventure 2 was the start of the terrible "Hey let's give this series about a blue anthropomorphic hedgehog a super serious storyline" trend that plagued the series for a while and eventually led to Sonic 2006. Sonic Adventure 1 did the putting Sonic in the real world thing way better in that there were just cities with humans in it and Sonic and co just sort of ran through them from level to level, but then Sonic Adventure 2 made the whole thing fucking stupid and had the military coming after Sonic and Sonic and Tails meeting the president.

Also helps that Sonic Adventure 1 had Gamma in it and his story is probably the best story thing done in the entire series.

YES! I thought the Gamma story was extremely well done. Infact, I think that's the first time I shed a tear to a videogame. And I fully agree that SA1 had the better story. The historical aspect and interlocking storylines that it had was more believable and true to what Sonic and his friends would really do. Good point.
 
SA1's was better by a country mile, even with its cheesier moments. The series is at its best when it's not being grimdark, honestly. Plus I never really liked the doomsday scenario SA2 put forth, or blowing up half the moon, or things like that - it's just entirely out-of-place in a Sonic game.

Has anyone here got sonic heroes for pc
I bought it from GameStop back when it was, like, $2.50-$5. Never bothered finishing it. Why?
 

TheOGB

Banned
I have Heroes on PC.

Fond memories of playing it on my old computer at 20fps and not knowing the difference

Sciz said:
Do I get to say I told you so yet?
I don't mind getting told if you're doing the telling

BlackJace said:
Which Sonic Adventure game had the best, and darkest story?
Best
Darkest

lolol
 

cyborg009

Banned
I have Heroes on PC.

Fond memories of playing it on my old computer at 20fps and not knowing the difference


I don't mind getting told if you're doing the telling


Best
Darkest

lolol

I have a ps2 version and gamecube and I want PC version but I can't find one

and also I tried demo at 60 fps its laggy while 30fps is best
 

qq more

Member
I can't seem to come to which Sonic Adventure game had the best story. SA1's story about Chaos and the ancient Echidna tribe was really deep, but SA2's widespread story was pretty dark as well. And don't even get me started about the Last story in SA2. That still gives me goosebumps.

What do you guys think? Which Sonic Adventure game had the best, and darkest story? And would you like that trend to continue in another massive Sonic game?

I'd honestly prefer Sega to keep dark stories away from Sonic. Colors got it right even though it was a bit too corny.


Although I'll admit SA1 had a decent story outside of its ending. It was pretty cool how everyone's story connected to each other.
 
I'd honestly prefer Sega to keep dark stories away from Sonic. Colors got it right even though it was a bit too corny.


Although I'll admit SA1 had a decent story outside of its ending. It was pretty cool how everyone's story connected to each other.

Though I couldn't help but be irked when you'd come across the same scenes in different stories only for the dialogue to be slightly different, that and you'd hear "long time no see" enough times to drive one insane.
 

Sciz

Member
Though I couldn't help but be irked when you'd come across the same scenes in different stories only for the dialogue to be slightly different

That part actually kinda makes sense. Each individual story is more like each character's recollection of events, and they remember how things went down a bit differently. It's the only way to reconcile the character battles, anyway.
 

BlackJace

Member
I think I should revise my first post and take out "darkest"

It should now stand as "Which Sonic Adventure game had the best story?"
All should be well now.
 
That part actually kinda makes sense. Each individual story is more like each character's recollection of events, and they remember how things went down a bit differently. It's the only way to reconcile the character battles, anyway.

So basically Knuckles lying about the times he won any fight? this makes sense though he could have done with skipping being tricked by Eggman again.
On that note i'll never forget Knuckles bizarre walking bit from that scene.
 

Sciz

Member
So basically Knuckles lying about the times he won any fight?

Kind of. I'd look at it as being more along the lines of exaggerated storytelling; both sides gave as good as they got and consequently remember coming out on top of what was really a battle without a winner. Sonic and Knuckles in particular are both such enormous blowhards that they'd never admit to losing anyway.
 

BlackJace

Member
Kind of. I'd look at it as being more along the lines of exaggerated storytelling; both sides gave as good as they got and consequently remember coming out on top of what was really a battle without a winner. Sonic and Knuckles in particular are both such enormous blowhards that they'd never admit to losing anyway.

Pretty much this.
 
Agreed, SA1 handled all of the side stories perfectly with believable, in-character motivations (and hey the cheesy VO's were awesome in this case, like an old Kung-fu dub). Gamma needing to kill his brothers to set them free, ending with his self destruction was just perfect. Not to mention one of the best boss themes in the series. Tails learning to fend for himself without needing to depend on Sonic was a fantastic arc too, working well with his theme song. Amy defending the birds and finally beating the shit out of that robot was short and sweet as well.

As awkward and clumsy the story in SA1 was executed, it was genuine and sincere, something I can't say about SA2's forced nuttiness. I will give SA2 credit for it's Last Act though, the reading of Gerald Robotnick's journal and the Biolizard fight+music gave me the creeps at the time.
 
I see the character battles as "what-ifs". Its left to the player to decide who really won the battles. Like the Knuckles vs Sonic fight, and Sonic vs. Gamma fight.

Kind of. I'd look at it as being more along the lines of exaggerated storytelling; both sides gave as good as they got and consequently remember coming out on top of what was really a battle without a winner. Sonic and Knuckles in particular are both such enormous blowhards that they'd never admit to losing anyway.

In which case i've already decided that Knuckles was blowing the most smoke, "oh no" isn't the sound of a winner.
 

BlackJace

Member
Agreed, SA1 handled all of the side stories perfectly with believable, in-character motivations (and hey the cheesy VO's were awesome in this case, like an old Kung-fu dub). Gamma needing to kill his brothers to set them free, ending with his self destruction was just perfect. Not to mention one of the best boss themes in the series. Tails learning to fend for himself without needing to depend on Sonic was a fantastic arc too, working well with his theme song. Amy defending the birds and finally beating the shit out of that robot was short and sweet as well.

As awkward and clumsy the story in SA1 was executed, it was genuine and sincere, something I can't say about SA2's forced nuttiness. I will give SA2 credit for it's Last Act though, the reading of Gerald Robotnick's journal and the Biolizard fight+music gave me the creeps at the time.

Haha I knew I wasn't the only one. Good point.
 
I could never get into SA1's story, if only for how friggin' awful its cutscenes were. Terrible voice acting, stilted animation... so bad. xD
 

qq more

Member
I could never get into SA1's story, if only for how friggin' awful its cutscenes were. Terrible voice acting, stilted animation... so bad. xD

Tails, you're gonna crash! AHH!


Even when the game was new, I always the acting and animations were so poorly executed. But at the same time I forgave it because I was all "OMG SONIC TALKS IN A GAME! KNUCKLES IS TALKING TOO! :D" as a kid.
 
The whole Rashomon-inspired story structure worked really well for a Sonic game, and I think it played into the whole focus of the game's design itself. SA1, to me, is a sort of sample Sonic game, with many of the most interesting bits and pieces of the Dreamcast gaming library tucked into 6 different styles of play. Admittedly, Amy felt rather redundant and prodding (though she mercifully has only 3 stages in her arc), and Big is an acquired taste (because the fishing's quite accessible and fun after a while—but I just like fishing games in general.). But the interweaving plot-lines and wide variety of scenery and locales immortalized the game's significance in the franchise from the start.

The only games that have really given me the same great feelings I felt in SA are Colors and Generations—SA1 was definitely a good-to-great transition for the franchise, while its successors got progressively worse until Sonic Team finally hit the bottom of the barrel, and then rose back up. SA2 felt much less polished and less consistent overall, and its story was laughable and out-of-place for the most part. At least SA1 still referred to the usual bad guy as Robotnik for a bit, and not just Eggman for the whole game.
 
Kind of. I'd look at it as being more along the lines of exaggerated storytelling; both sides gave as good as they got and consequently remember coming out on top of what was really a battle without a winner. Sonic and Knuckles in particular are both such enormous blowhards that they'd never admit to losing anyway.
I like how Tails inserts himself into each scenario. The best is the pre-Egg Hornet cut scene.

(Sonic's story)
Eggman: Well, if it isn't Sonic!

(Tails' story)
Eggman: Well, if it isn't Sonic... and Tails!

It seems like the only conflict that has a neutral perspective is Sonic vs. Gamma, since it's in Amy's story as well (and Sonic wins).
 
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