George Claw M.D.
Member
Would you care to make a wager of...Lagspike_exe said:
let's say...
$500,000,000?
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Sony announces Q2 results
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
let's say...
$500,000,000?
TheThunder
Member
around 3mYoboman said:
Yoboman
Member
But Major Nelson says 360 is at 42 millionTheThunder said:
http://majornelson.com/archive/2010...ent-hours-spent-on-xbox-live-every-month.aspx
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
Karma said:
You say shipped, he says sold.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
NinjaFridge said:
100% of the time that any number is given and doesn't directly quote NPD, Media-Create/Enterbrain/Dengeki, or Chart Track, it means "shipped" even if it says "sold".
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
Stumpokapow said:
*Long fanboy rant on why you are wrong and i am right, followed by complaints that mods are biased*
The transcript of the US call is available on Seeking Alpha. Some interesting bits:
Game sales decreased 13% year-on-year to ¥171 billion. This is primarily due to a decrease in unit sales of PSP hardware and PS2 software, although PS3 hardware and software sales were strong. Operating results improved ¥54 billion year-on-year to ¥13 billion profit. This significant improvement resulted from the PS3 hardware cost reductions and an increase in unit sales of PS3 software despite the negative impact of exchange rates. As I mentioned earlier, the game business has been profitable for four consecutive quarters.
PS3 hardware sales units were 3.5 million units, more than 3.2 recorded in the same quarter last year when the new PS3 model was introduced. This was driven by an introduction hit software titles. We are on track to reach our target of 15 million units for the year. With the launch of the PlayStation Move in September and other actions momentum is growing for the year-end selling season.
...
I will start with the gaming PS3. There are no inventory charges affecting the profitability of PS3 in the second quarter. Cost have come down, again the negative margins on the hardware have been eliminated since last April so, we are in the mode of making money on each unit we sell at the moment. So, the profitability with a combination of reduced costs in the PS3, quite impressive sales on the software of PS3 and reduction in SG&A.
...
Just add a little bit on gaming, we sold 2.5 million Move machine in the US and Europe and the momentum continues to be very strong, yeah.
Game sales decreased 13% year-on-year to ¥171 billion. This is primarily due to a decrease in unit sales of PSP hardware and PS2 software, although PS3 hardware and software sales were strong. Operating results improved ¥54 billion year-on-year to ¥13 billion profit. This significant improvement resulted from the PS3 hardware cost reductions and an increase in unit sales of PS3 software despite the negative impact of exchange rates. As I mentioned earlier, the game business has been profitable for four consecutive quarters.
PS3 hardware sales units were 3.5 million units, more than 3.2 recorded in the same quarter last year when the new PS3 model was introduced. This was driven by an introduction hit software titles. We are on track to reach our target of 15 million units for the year. With the launch of the PlayStation Move in September and other actions momentum is growing for the year-end selling season.
...
I will start with the gaming PS3. There are no inventory charges affecting the profitability of PS3 in the second quarter. Cost have come down, again the negative margins on the hardware have been eliminated since last April so, we are in the mode of making money on each unit we sell at the moment. So, the profitability with a combination of reduced costs in the PS3, quite impressive sales on the software of PS3 and reduction in SG&A.
...
Just add a little bit on gaming, we sold 2.5 million Move machine in the US and Europe and the momentum continues to be very strong, yeah.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
szaromir said:
They both do.
Although it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that MS have ensured that anyone who does not yet own a 360 and wants a Kinect will be able to buy both.
Captain Chaos
Member
offshore said:
Sainsburys doing that price today
charlequin
Banned
jcm said:
Both companies stuff channels to some degree all the time because it's in their interests to have full channels and move units in advance of sales. Neither, I think, is doing so in any aggressive or misleading manner right now, but it will mean that the vagaries of shipping will produce variance on the level of a few million here or there.
About the best you can do on this sort of comparison is to look at shipped numbers from three or four consecutive quarters, sanity-check them based on what sold info is available, and produce a ballpark number that way. 3 million should be relatively close, but the margin of error on that is probably something like +/- 3 million in each direction. :lol
charlequin
Banned
Ashes1396 said:
Each manufacturer is supplying retail channels across the entire world, which have varying levels of inventory they're interested in and/or willing to carry. Depending on how close to "sold out" retail is, and how bullish on the product retailers are, and how much the company is entreating retail to stock heavily, each of Microsoft and Sony could have anywhere between, say, 1 and 4 million units in retail inventory worldwide. (It's also possible to mess around with shipments that happen near the edge of a quarter to push them to one side or the other, which wouldn't really be channel stuffing from retail's perspective but would alter the numbers we see reported.)
Then you have to note that these variances are independent. At any given time, MS might be sold through up to 4 million while Sony is only at 1 million, or vice versa.
Therefore, either of the following are possible (entirely fake numbers for illustration):
360: 44m sold through, 45m shipped
PS3: 39m sold through, 43m shipped
(shipped variance of 3m, sold variance of 6m)
360: 44m sold through, 48m shipped
PS3: 44m sold through, 45m shipped
(shipped variance of 3m, sold variance of 0)
This is why it makes sense to compare multiple quarters of shipped data at once and sanity-check them with whatever sold data we might have; otherwise the fact that both companies are shipping independently and we're only measuring on a relatively wide period makes the overall variance of our data pretty high.
Still disagree. Can't see a retailer, even as big as Walmart, being off, by hundreds of thousands of units... perhaps tens of thousands, but definitely not hundreds and thousands.... and I'm working on the principle that it is these retailers you can channel stuff through...
ps. and the only time I think you can channel stuff is christmas time I reckon... I can't see people overstocking during the calmer months...
ps. and the only time I think you can channel stuff is christmas time I reckon... I can't see people overstocking during the calmer months...
I'm really baffled that Sony hasn't made an alliance with Panasonic to re-enter the Plasma display market. They are now heading into SEVEN straight years of losing money selling TVs.
http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20101029D29JFA12.htm
Both Panasonic and Sony are the largest patent holders in Blu-Ray, so why not form a Plasma display alliance? It was a mistake for them to leave the Plasma market 6 years ago. It isn't like Plasma would generate massive profit, but at least it would restore some of the prestige Sony TVs used to have.
http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20101029D29JFA12.htm
Both Panasonic and Sony are the largest patent holders in Blu-Ray, so why not form a Plasma display alliance? It was a mistake for them to leave the Plasma market 6 years ago. It isn't like Plasma would generate massive profit, but at least it would restore some of the prestige Sony TVs used to have.
H_Prestige
Banned
Brimstone said:
I'd be all over a Sony plasma, if only because it is clear Panasonic has no intention of improving picture quality and fixing the black level issues on their displays. Sony still has some of that "we're going to make the best and we don't give a damn about anything else" in their DNA that made Pioneer so awesome.
And isn't PDP still a cheaper technology once you get past 50"?
charlequin
Banned
Ashes1396 said:
What do you mean by "off"? Wal-Mart has 8,500 stores. If each store tries to maintain a stock of 10 units at all times, that's 85,000 unsold units at Wal-Marts alone at any given time. If there's intermediate stock (sold through to the chain but not yet delivered to individual locations) it could be higher. Expanded out over all retailers worldwide, the amount of stock that's in between shipping and selling can get quite high.
It's not at all unusual to have millions of units at various points in the retail channel when you're measuring worldwide and especially in the lead-up to a holiday, relaunch, price drop, or other promotion. Broadly speaking, there's a limit to how much retail will stock and so there's a relationship between sales and shipments; it's just that the buffer between the two varies over time and sometimes varies more over time for some products or manufacturers than others.
Again, I'm not talking about anyone stuffing literally millions of unwanted items into the channel; I'm talking about how a) the retail channel has a huge number of as-yet unsold items (inventory) at any given time just normally, and b) a variety of factors (including how aggressively the manufacturer wants to ship items in a given period) affect that up or downwards. These factors are the whole reason the "shipped not sold" mantra exists in the first place; shipped figures aren't a good substitute for consumer sell-through and can be off in a number of ways, ways that become even more significant when we compare two different shipped numbers to one another.
I don't know if it's the whole Europe, but the charts have different sources and explanations so I think there are more countries in the weekly sales.Baki said:
You can also compare the second chart sales with the pixel-counting Road has done.
Thanks a lot. So looking at the January - September distribution:Road said:Estimated sell-through for 2010 based on Media-Create, NPD and Nintendo data (Chart-Track/Gfk and others for Europe):
Wii = 3.48 + 3.04 + 1.93 = 8.45
PS3 = 2.2 + 2.4 + 3.5 = 8.1
360 = 1.5 + 1.5 + 2.8 = 5.8
It seems that Microsoft has been clearing stock and / or is about to refill it.
Stronger results than I expected for PS3 and PS2 which will probably do better than their forecast for the FY. PS3 will be huge (and will probably peak) when the price is cut to 199$/ next year. Fact that they have been profitable on the hardware since last April will help.
Now what about the GT5 release date Sony?
Now what about the GT5 release date Sony?
There is still room for significant cost reductions on PS3 hardware - Blu-ray drive costs are still the largest and should fall by 30% through this year. RSX shrink also has to be in the works.
They are basically fucked if they don't fix their TV business. Panasonic has no incentive to get into Plasma with Sony.
Brimstone said:
They are basically fucked if they don't fix their TV business. Panasonic has no incentive to get into Plasma with Sony.
yurinka
Member
Considering GT5 is going to be released late December, I would almost include it here. I think it will move more consoles than all the other games combined.thuway said:If Move actually makes any sort of momentum, there'll be another avenue of conscious revenue for Sony.
Next year is going to be huge:
Killzone 3
Little Big Planet 2
Infamous 2
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Resistance 3
The Last Guardian
Versus XIII in Japan (lol?)
PSP2
And than bring on 2012.... where we will no doubt hear murmurs of the PS4.
I'm pretty sure Uncharted 3 will be released in 2011, too.
And who knows, maybe even PS Phone and PS tablet are going to be released this year.
Sony TV's still have prestige. Maybe not compared to before, but it's still there.Brimstone said:
As for Plasma, I don't think they sell enough to warrant Sony moving in at this point? They've been dropping techs that don't sell enough units, not intentionally adding it. Also, the largest patent holder reasoning doesn't really hold water. Panasonic has been (and I suspect will continue to be) amongst the largest share-holders for all digital video discs. They're the reason DVD won over the Sony/Phillips offering way back when.
That said, I would love to see them move back to Plasma
Your statement regarding Panasonic is patently false. They have continued to improve picture quality and black levels. Would Sony push things faster? Maybe, maybe not. Matters what Sony we're talking about.H_Prestige said:
As to the question for costs, yes they are cheaper relative to LCD as size increases.
Sorry to go ofF topic but there have been rumors that panasonic acquired pioneer kuro tech and engineers so if we are to have any hope of kuro tech making a come back or a next gen kuro tech being incorporated into tvs it would be from panasonic. Last I heard was that panasonic was increasing their tv's picture quality and black levels and were getting pretty close to reproducing the 9g kuro and 9g kuro elite black levels and picture quality in their 2011 models. If they have abandoned that goal, then it's a shame and a big loss for those who want pure quality. As someone previously pointed out, Sony like pioneer is a company that has that make the best product in their dna as well. If they merged with panasonic on making plasmas and they both worked on reproducing and expanding the kuro tech, it would be the stuff that dreams were made off, not to mention progress would be made faster.
H_Prestige
Banned
Panasonic has the Kuro patents and acquired some former Pioneer engineers, but so far nothing has come of it, and chances are nothing will happen next year either.
Panasonic has not approached 9G black levels yet. The VT25 equalled the 8G black levels this year, but like all Panasonic plasmas, it suffers from the 3x rising black levels, so those blacks will quickly become average within a year. Panasonic has not improved black levels on any of their other displays this year, but the G20/25 did get a stronger ambient light filter that holds contrast better under light.
Panasonic has not approached 9G black levels yet. The VT25 equalled the 8G black levels this year, but like all Panasonic plasmas, it suffers from the 3x rising black levels, so those blacks will quickly become average within a year. Panasonic has not improved black levels on any of their other displays this year, but the G20/25 did get a stronger ambient light filter that holds contrast better under light.
Damn that sucks. Oh well 2012 then. I bought a brand new pioneer kuro 428xg in august. Superb picture quality. Trying to get my hands on a 5090 or a krp 500 as well. But yeah, getting back on topic, one things for sure, we can expect a pretty sleek and powerful ps4 from Sony when it launches. Hopefully they keep the cell design.
Although samsung and panasonic have taken over but Sony tv's still command a fair bit of the tv market. The whole "it's Sony, they know how to make great tv's" still holds true.
Although samsung and panasonic have taken over but Sony tv's still command a fair bit of the tv market. The whole "it's Sony, they know how to make great tv's" still holds true.