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[Four_Chamber]

I think everybody expected Sony to have a loss but 1.3 billion is way bigger than most people predicted. Hell, Sony has already said upfront that they won't be profitable again until 2015. I don't know how long they can leave Hirai at the top post- he's running on borrowed time as far as I'm concerned especially when you compare how much more efficient Panasonic's restructuring has been.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

The gaming division will likely be fairly profitable over the next couple of years based on PS+ subscriptions alone. That's a huge revenue source that they didn't have last gen (at least not to the same extent). It also certainly helps that Sony isn't selling the PS4 at a several hundred dollar loss like with the PS3.

Sony can't be an all-encompassing electronics giant in 2014 though. The model just doesn't work. Their most profitable segment by far (finance) isn't even a tangible product. Kaz seems to be making some steps in the right direction but it will take drastic action to actually make Sony highly profitable again.

 

[TsuWave]

profit forecast for gaming division shows its doing well

the loss is likely due to R&D and the games and hardware sales from now on will make up for it

 

[SeanR1221]

Maybe Sony will downsize their products and merge with a company like Samsung in the distant future.

 

[Metallix87]

I think everybody expected Sony to have a loss but 1.3 billion is way bigger than most people predicted. Hell, Sony has already said upfront that they won't be profitable again until 2015. I don't know how long they can leave Hirai at the top post- he's running on borrowed time as far as I'm concerned especially when you compare how much more efficient Panasonic's restructuring has been.

They definitely needed someone from outside the company to manage it. I think Hirai is too connected to the past to do the job that is necessary.

 

[maabus1999]

From the outside, it looks really bad for Sony, but most of its divisions are actually doing well. Their TV business is losing less money and Sony just recently announced that they're going to stop making OLED TV's and only focus on 4K LCD's.

Then they realize next year as cheaper competitors jump into the 4k arena that margins aren't as good as they hoped. Just a prediction...

Sony has lost their branding power in TV and margins are too thin for Sony to compete with their current structure.

 

[hodayathink]

They definitely needed someone from outside the company to manage it. I think Hirai is too connected to the past to do the job that is necessary.

I think that after Stringer they may be afraid to go that route again.

 

[ArchedThunder]

The PS4 is sold at a loss, right?

 

[StevieP]

The PS4 is sold at a loss, right?

Yup

 

[DevilFox]

Personally I believe in the potential of entertainment as a web service, gaming too, and PlayStation Now is a step in the right direction so I want to see how it goes, if they can build and spread a PlayStation ecosystem.
As TVs, I've read a couple of preview of their new models and they look great, really great, expensive too unfortunately.. but who knows, maybe the PlayStation name on them could help for a good start?

 

[MercuryLS]

Sony needs to focus on very few products and execute on the highest level of R&D and marketing. They need to be more like Apple if they want to enjoy big margins and sales.

Their phones are great but they need to put more marketing dollars behind them. Playstation is on a good course and it's probably the only super healthy business they have left.

They also need to understand the importance of strong software for their CE products. Look at something like LG smart TVs with WebOS. That thing looks amazing and way better than thee stuff coming out of Sony, Samsung, etc. these TVSs are already pretty great from a hardware standpoint, UX/UI is how you stand out.

 

[Metallix87]

I think that after Stringer they may be afraid to go that route again.

Definitely, but just because Stringer was inept, doesn't mean all outsiders will be.

 

[gamergirly]

Not really surprised after Nintendo's losses

 

[Rebel Leader]

The PS4 is sold at a loss, right?

around $50

 

[Nerokis]

Plus abenomics is fucking what is left of the japanese economy

Hahaha. I don't know how you pulled Abenomics into this, but I'd love to hear what you're basing this claim on. At the very least, Sony would have probably been significantly worse off without the depreciation of the yen spurred on by Abenomics.

 

[breakfuss]

The PS4 is sold at a loss, right?

Damn, I didn't know that.

 

[jholmes]

Looks like Sony closed down 6% on the day. Today is not going to quiet the activist investors who are trying to get Sony to sell off the movies division and other units.

 

[HowZatOZ]

Damn, I didn't know that.

Only the $399USD one is, rest of the world is charged higher. It's sad to see a company struggle, but I'm sure things will turn their tail soon, unless we have another GFC in the next year or so.

One thing I'm taking away from the past financial threads is that Nintendo is actually doing pretty well when it's primary source of income is gaming. Sony has a number of financials to fall back on, and some rather big ones at that.

 

[StevieP]

It's more than 1 game loss, even according to Sony's vague statements

 

[vivftp]

The target was missed because of late Z2 shipments. It means this year starts at a higher base. 50m should be achievable if their new partnership with VZW and old one with T-Mobile US can be leveraged properly for the Z3 to be released in October in the US.

Do you happen to know if the is the expected timeframe for the Z3? Or is it more of a guess based on the pattern with the Z1 last year?

Still waiting on the next Ultra to be revealed.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Worrying times for them. I'm not their biggest fan however I like Playstation and I do have concerns about potential job losses, terrible stress when your livelihood is at risk , hope they can sort it out.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I think that after Stringer they may be afraid to go that route again.

The Board held Stringer back, he couldn't do what was needed.

Apparently neither can Kaz

 

[lightzGamin]

Aren't they spinning it off already anyway

Yeah they are but it would still be part of Sony, it will just become a subsidiary now like Sony Computer Entertainment.

 

[Oersted]

Maybe Sony will downsize their products and merge with a company like Samsung in the distant future.

Samsung didn't become so big trough suicidal tendencies.

Then they realize next year as cheaper competitors jump into the 4k arena that margins aren't as good as they hoped. Just a prediction...

Sony has lost their branding power in TV and margins are too thin for Sony to compete with their current structure.

I think for a few months, Sony had a lead or atleast a huge chunk of the 4k market. Than Samsung striked back and Sony fall behind.

 

[ColiBreh1]

Y'all seen this article:

Sony woes could spark another battle with Loeb

“Loeb will be rattling now that the stock has dropped,” said the person familiar with the situation. “This [also] opens the door for other activist investors.”

Sony’s poor financial situation leaves its US chiefs in a tough spot, wondering how to expand their businesses when all the capital has to head back to Tokyo, one person explained.

“It’s going in the wrong direction,” said one source with knowledge of the situation.

“As long as the stock keeps dropping, Loeb’s plan for a spin-off of the entertainment assets is logical,” a second source in the loop said.

This person likened the entertainment assets of Sony to the value of Yahoo!’s Alibaba stake — meaning that the core business adds little to the overall value of the company.

Sony’s move to spin off its television-set business into a new entity is being viewed as a precursor to a possible sale — one move that would fit into Loeb’s vision of a slimmed-down Sony.

Sony’s entertainment assets are valued at roughly $14 billion, sources estimated.
A stock price decline to the $13-a-share neighborhood could bring activists off the sidelines, the person said.

If the entertainment assets were sold, Sony could give its stock price a huge boost and begin a period of reinvestment in its core products.

Sony has continued to say it isn’t interested in selling its entertainment assets and rejected Loeb’s plan for a spin-off soon after its proposal last year.


Complete article at: http://nypost.com/2014/05/16/sony-woes-could-spark-another-battle-with-loeb/

SMH. Why does Loeb have such a hard-on to sell off Sony's entertainment assets? When it comes down to it Sony Pictures & Sony Music are profitable for Sony, Sony will always be able to make money from there entertainment divisions (as Kaz always says, "Content is king"), and it makes Sony unique when compared to their CE competitors (Samsung, LG, Apple, & Etc.)

 

[Crawl]

Does anyone know how much money Sony has in the bank? Like how much money is left for them to keep hemorrhaging before they go bankrupt? And how does it compare with Nintendo's war chest?

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Does anyone know how much money Sony has in the bank? Like how much money is left for them to keep hemorrhaging before they go bankrupt? And how does it compare with Nintendo's war chest?

I dont know man. Whenever Sony financials come out, it feels like they've hit a new low.

Kinda surprised they are still alive.

 

[HyperionX]

Y'all seen this article:




SMH. Why does Loeb have such a hard-on to sell off Sony's entertainment assets? When it comes down to it Sony Pictures & Sony Music are profitable for Sony, Sony will always be able to make money from there entertainment divisions (as Kaz always says, "Content is king"), and it makes Sony unique when compared to their CE competitors (Samsung, LG, Apple, & Etc.)

If you were head of the entertainment division, wouldn't you be angered that all of your profits go to subsidize the money-losing electronics side for the last decade and counting?

 

[test_account]

Samsung didn't become so big trough suicidal tendencies.

What do you mean? If they downsize, they would cut the things that loses money. A merger with Samsung is unlikely though, but downsizing and cutting the things that loses money would not be a huge risk for Samsung if they should merge.

 

[Neoxon]

So is it that the PS4 itself is selling well, but the rest of Sony is doing terribly?

 

[davepoobond]

Y'all seen this article:




SMH. Why does Loeb have such a hard-on to sell off Sony's entertainment assets? When it comes down to it Sony Pictures & Sony Music are profitable for Sony, Sony will always be able to make money from there entertainment divisions (as Kaz always says, "Content is king"), and it makes Sony unique when compared to their CE competitors (Samsung, LG, Apple, & Etc.)

If Sony sells off its entertainment services t is done for. The rest of it will sink and become insolvent.

 

[DarkFlow]

Well, I bet they could get a nice payday from Disney if they ever felt like selling Spidey back.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Does anyone know how much money Sony has in the bank? Like how much money is left for them to keep hemorrhaging before they go bankrupt? And how does it compare with Nintendo's war chest?

Sony has valuable assets but last I checked they were deeply in debt by billions. Does anyone else know if this has changed?

 

[SPDIF]

Does anyone know how much money Sony has in the bank? Like how much money is left for them to keep hemorrhaging before they go bankrupt? And how does it compare with Nintendo's war chest?

Around $10 billion. Nintendo has about half that. And just in case you were curious, (although it's not really a fair comparison) Microsoft has nearly $90 billion.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Well, I bet they could get a nice payday from Disney if they ever felt like selling Spidey back.

And lose literally the biggest movie IP among all of the other superhero IPs today? LOL No. Sony isn't giving up Spidey for anything.

 

[El-Pistolero]

The company is slowly dying. I hope they stay around for the next round of consoles, but something tells me the PS4 might become their swan song...

 

[thefunkyman]

So is it that the PS4 itself is selling well, but the rest of Sony is doing terribly?

Sony make the bulk of their money from selling financial services. Their music and pictures divisions also do pretty well. The PS4 is selling well, but as they say, "revenue is vanity, profits are sanity" and the gaming division is still posting losses. They would have been much better off in the last decade if they'd scrapped all of their consumer electronics businesses, including the gaming division.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Sony will be fine. They are making all the right moves they need to. Their TV business is fucked and making Sony look bad as a whole. They make a nice quality TV, but most people don't give a shit about quality in their TV, just size and price.

 

[ColiBreh1]

Does anyone know how much money Sony has in the bank? Like how much money is left for them to keep hemorrhaging before they go bankrupt? And how does it compare with Nintendo's war chest?

At the end of fiscal year 2012 (May 2013), Sony's total assets are worth USD $151.131 billion, they're total equity is US$ 28.523 billion.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Sony make the bulk of their money from selling financial services. Their music and pictures divisions also do pretty well. The PS4 is selling well, but as they say, "revenue is vanity, profits are sanity" and the gaming division is still posting losses. They would have been much better off in the last decade if they'd scrapped all of their consumer electronics businesses, including the gaming division.

Nonsense. Their gaming divisions is going to look very healthy by this time next year, provided they continue pushing the right buttons, Software sales and PS+will bring in profit, imo.

 

[Josh5890]

At the end of fiscal year 2012 (May 2013), Sony's total assets are worth USD $151.131 billion, they're total equity is US$ 28.523 billion.

That is a lot of liability then. ($122.608 billion)

 

[HyperionX]

At the end of fiscal year 2012 (May 2013), Sony's total assets are worth USD $151.131 billion, they're total equity is US$ 28.523 billion.

A lot of that is goodwill and intangible assets. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE&annual

Their real net assets appear to be 10,905,000,000 dollars.

 

[thefunkyman]

Nonsense. Their gaming divisions is going to look very healthy by this time next year, provided they continue pushing the right buttons, Software sales and PS+will bring in profit, imo.

I was talking about the past decade, so what I said isn't nonsense at all.

Sony will be fine. They are making all the right moves they need to.

Their real problem is that they're totally insignificant in the most important markets. In smartphones sales, they are bundled into the "other" category, along with all of the other companies nobody cares about. They haven't made a product that has had a significant market impact since the PS1/2 and Walkman days. Bleeding a ton of money into VR will likely be as big of a waste of money as bleeding a ton of money into 3D was.

 

[Heshinsi]

A lot of that is goodwill and intangible assets. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE&annual

Their real net assets appear to be 10,905,000,000 dollars.

Isn't that $10 billion number their cash on hand?

 

[spwolf]

Does anyone know how much money Sony has in the bank? Like how much money is left for them to keep hemorrhaging before they go bankrupt? And how does it compare with Nintendo's war chest?

they still had operating profit last year, just a lot less than expected ($250mil if i remember), due to exit from PC business... it is these restructuring costs as well as taxes that is killing their net income..

otherwise, they were cashflow positive $1.6 billion in FY2013 - meaning they now have $1.6billion more in cash than last year.

After the exit and all the restructuring and impairment of FY2014 and 2015, they should have left all unprofitable business's except for TV's... where they reduced the losses to 250m and they hope to be profitable in 2015 as their sales are actually growing with their last two quarters (both in units and revenue).

Of course, Sony has been the worst offender in not meeting their goals, so who knows.

But to answer your question simply - Sony is not losing cash, they have operating profit and most of the losses are due to them closing divisions and factories.

 

[thefunkyman]

But to answer your question simply - Sony is not losing cash, they have operating profit and most of the losses are due to them closing divisions and factories.

That's an interesting spin on their financial report.

 

[RedStep]

Nonsense. Their gaming divisions is going to look very healthy by this time next year, provided they continue pushing the right buttons, Software sales and PS+will bring in profit, imo.

Yeah, no. You can't project your feelings ("the PS4 is selling a bunch!") onto a balance book. Their gaming division has lost a TON over the last decade, and is still posting losses. Even thinking that they might show a profit a year from now doesn't mean that it was a good choice to keep going.

And thinking that mainstream PS4 players are going to be sitting around with headsets on is ridiculous. That's a straight-up money sink, they should have made a deal with Oculus if anything and called it a day. That will probably help keep them out of "very healthy" status for a while on the gaming side.

 

[KillerMan91]

Yeah, no. You can't project your feelings ("the PS4 is selling a bunch!") onto a balance book. Their gaming division has lost a TON over the last decade, and is still posting losses. Even thinking that they might show a profit a year from now doesn't mean that it was a good choice to keep going.

And thinking that mainstream PS4 players are going to be sitting around with headsets on is ridiculous. That's a straight-up money sink, they should have made a deal with Oculus if anything and called it a day. That will probably help keep them out of "very healthy" status for a while on the gaming side.

Gaming division has posted losses every year they have launched a new console. This years loss was smallest in history of PS launches. Of course you never know but at the moment it seems they will hit that 200 million profit target next year rather easily.

 

[spwolf]

That's an interesting spin on their financial report.

there is no spin, they are cashflow positive $1.6 billion and had operating profit of 257m.

Cash and cash equivalents of all segments excluding the Financial Services
segment was 806.1 billion yen (7,827 million U.S. dollars) as of March 31, 2014, an increase of 181.3 billion yen,
or 29.0% compared with the balance as of March 31, 2013

Everything is in their financials:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q4_sony.pdf

 

[SlipperySlope]

Guidance for 2015 are as follows:



http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303627504579561012603088926?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303627504579561012603088926.html

Oh wow, their projections for next year for net profit are a billion dollars below estimates? That's scary.