Do you expect anything else here?
-Sony might do some fucked up thing
/fans: FUCK YEAH! Bring it on! We love you Kaz!!!
-
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Sony has researched new tech for suppressing second-hand game sales
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
Do you expect anything else here?
-Sony might do some fucked up thing
/fans: FUCK YEAH! Bring it on! We love you Kaz!!!
The PC, with games that cost less than half the console ones, isn't really a comparable scenario. The used console market is enormous, go on with this fucked up tech and see how well it ends for Sony, starting from angry retailers
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
who said anything like that? i said i don't care, but acting "omg, people are okay with it, wtf" is silly. you don't like it, fine with me. just don't act like other people are wrong about it.
It's fully anti-used-game-consumer, I can see that.
Really, I'd find it most worrying from a perspective of game preservation. But proprietary consoles are already worrying in general regarding that -- if you are in favor of preservation you need to be in favor of open hardware platforms.
"Less than half" may be overstating it a bit. Even if you shop around you usually pay ~40 USD for a new game at launch.
You somehow make that sound like a bad thing.
What he is talking about is the level of discount. You could buy Trine 2 with the expansion on a Steam sale for 5 dollars while the WiiU sale is 16 dollars. Console sales kind of suck compared to what you can find on the pc.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
yeah it is. i don't see any problem with it though, my wallet appreciates it.
cost less? indie games on steam that cost pretty much the same as their xbla and psn counterparts when they launch? pc "retail" games that cost 10 bucks less than their console offerings at launch? steam just knows how to sell games unlike sony and ms by making regular sales.
Well if you're a publisher trying to make the most money out of your pricey game I can imagine that's not a good thing.
You certainly realize that on closed platforms with a captive audience it'll mean that the price will not go down like it does on Steam, right?
jchap
Member
Come on... Sony consoles never quit working
Th-they're a business stoopid! You can just choose not to buy what they're offering!
Seriously, I have no idea why gamers seem to be the audience to take it willingly when it comes to so many anti-consumer practices.
I have three dead PS1s and PS2s. They do stop working.
If you were in the UK I could understand this better given the post afterwards (maybe you ARE and you're just using USD since that was what I was implying), but we've had these means to sell games to each other at the end of the 32-bit generation thanks to the likes of eBay, and there is ALWAYS additional hassle and risk that the other person will screw you over or something goes wrong with shipping and the guy can't really do anything about it but refund you. Nevermind that I'd think lending games to each other would be more of a problem.
So, frankly? No, I don't see why this is so catastrophic since in the end you NEED new games bought to become used copies in the first place, people actively use trading in to buy new stuff, and we've had the existence of used games for a long, long time, nevermind how some of those problems have more to do with a business model that may not be best for long term health. Not to mention the costs of running these servers, and the fact a lot of value in optical media is that it's just plastic, a sheet of foil, and a label, thus being very cheap and easy to mass produce. Adding actual hardware on probably quadruples the price right there per disc, and I can't see that being a rational protective measure.
Cause steam is mostly where AAA games are making revenue on PC. [EA for Origin].
Unlike Consoles where Retail exists where developers heavily rely their sales on.
grimshawish
Banned
This is a new system though. Its open to publishers so they'll just look to boost those sales like on Steam.
Sentenza
Member
Well, actually there are plenty of sources where you can find them for even less (from 20 to 30 dollars for new releases).
But for some reason GAF decided to outlaw them, so we cant really go into details with that argument.
could you rephrase that I can't seem to parse what you're saying...
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Wouldn't this mean no playing on a mate's machine etc?
Regardless killing the used market is a terrible move.
Regardless killing the used market is a terrible move.
gaming_noob
Member
Could this work for the movies/music (physical format) industry?
The reason why I'm not entirely against this is that I really don't like businesses (like Gamestop), that don't contribute anything of value to gaming as such, make millions based on the products of others. I don't really mind individual reselling. I think a system with frequent price reductions and sales (such as on Steam) is better for everyone involved -- except people making a living off reselling stuff. Gamers can get a new game at any price point they want, and developers still see some profit from their games past the first month.
I only see developers and publishers praising the revenue they get from Steam sales though.
And still, companies are limiting their game demos. Talk to them. And as a matter of fact, i know enough people with needs already satisfied if they play the demo.
Sorry, your post could have been understood that way. I certainly did^^
This has been covered. PC is vulnerable in ways consoles typically aren't due to being an open platform with fewer standards to rely on (you can't do tricks like the PS1 discs where a straight CD-R wasn't going to work on a PS1), and thus required extra protection via CD-Keys and even online activation, Steam was if anything an attempt to add actual value to such setups, IE you had that key and you got to download the game as often as you wanted, or that online service you had to phone in with initially was also a place to buy more games, keep your games collected together, and to match up with friends or entire communities. Not to mention that this all against piracy, not the used market that requires you forfeiting the object in order for someone else to use it.
I don't have faith this will happen. The big 3 don't seem to have a clue about digital yet. I hope one of them has the lightbulb go on.
PSN also allows developers to set their discounts as well lust like the WiiU.
They will set their price depending on the userbase and amount of user base preferring DD
20$ game where 5 people buy would suit WiiU or 5$ game which 20 people buy on steam
PC games these days don't even hold their price for a month, it goes down fast, specially if you shop on amazon for retail games. Steam prices not as quickly, specially not Euro ones.
no resale isn't much of an issue on PC really. Games can be had for cheap mostly unless it's a Blizzard game or the like.
It wouldn't be a problem for console games too if additions of systems like this and potential increase in new sales resulted in decrease of software prices overall, that won't happen unfortunately. Make console games $40, cripple the used market, most people could live with that, $60 isn't affordable for games in this day and age when entertainment is generally available at low prices or free.
no resale isn't much of an issue on PC really. Games can be had for cheap mostly unless it's a Blizzard game or the like.
It wouldn't be a problem for console games too if additions of systems like this and potential increase in new sales resulted in decrease of software prices overall, that won't happen unfortunately. Make console games $40, cripple the used market, most people could live with that, $60 isn't affordable for games in this day and age when entertainment is generally available at low prices or free.
yurinka
Member
I think that it should link both the console and the user id. To allow both play with other user ids in your console, and to use it with yout id in other consoles.
Regarding second hand it would affect to the games that are played (most of the cases). I have games in my huge backlog that are still sealed so I'd be able to send the.
If they implement it, let's hope they don't limit the number of consoles where you can play the game using your user id (for broken stuff) and that they both create a digital rental system and lower faster the pricing of the retail games. It wouldn't affect me since I only buy used games in very rare cases like where I can't find a certain old game that I'm looking for.
fluffydelusions
Member
I've grown accustomed to never being able to sell my games as I've been PC only for a while now. I did love having the option though when I had PS3/360.
is Gamestop completely independent from game companies? I would assume so, but then you'd just need to introduce a small fee on every used game they sell, with that fee going directly to the companies
Jezbollah
Member
What are the most educated guesses into how close the specs of the next consoles, and any perceived similarities compared to this gen will developing new games for the next Sony and MS consoles share?
If Sony decide to implement this anti-second hand system, then we could be faced with the absurd situation of developers getting most of their royalties on one platform, and the other platform gaining in second hand sales of said games...
Because I know for sure that if I was in a major position of influence at Microsoft in designing the next Xbox, I would be doing the exact opposite to what Sony are doing re used games.
Also, if was Joe Public and I was walking into a games store - I would be seeing next Xbox games all over the place, and a small section of new PS4 games - that would give me an impression over what console would be the perceived "leader", and what console to get if I was undecided over what to buy little Joey for Christmas...
If Sony decide to implement this anti-second hand system, then we could be faced with the absurd situation of developers getting most of their royalties on one platform, and the other platform gaining in second hand sales of said games...
Because I know for sure that if I was in a major position of influence at Microsoft in designing the next Xbox, I would be doing the exact opposite to what Sony are doing re used games.
Also, if was Joe Public and I was walking into a games store - I would be seeing next Xbox games all over the place, and a small section of new PS4 games - that would give me an impression over what console would be the perceived "leader", and what console to get if I was undecided over what to buy little Joey for Christmas...
Sony pursued these kind of patents since year 2000.
https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/viewer?url=www.google.com/patents/US6816972.pdf
Was PS2 anti-used games? No.
Is PS3 anti-used games? No.
Will PS4 be anti-used games? No.
Prove that.
And while you're at it, explain how selling a worse product (i.e. one that has less value by not having resale value) will boost revenue.
Oh, another thing I should've replied to earlier:
The only way I can see it working for retail is if we're just buying DD codes from them anyway... in which case the used market "dies" for the more practical reason that everyone's gone full DD, no convoluted schemes needed.
I think this is effectively impossible. Part of why Steam does this is because the cost of "stocking" the game is next to nothing compared to a retail product: those have to be manufactured, packaged, shipped, and kept on shelves potentially at the expensive of other games. The latter is why we can have amazing fire sales every so often, but the other points are why it's a last resort on unpopular/ancient games rather than a holiday event: retailers and publishers NEED to make back that money. Plus I kind of expect payment's reversed for Steam: retailers buy the games from publishers and try to sell at MSRP to get their money back, but I kind of figure Steam offers the option to buy a game, and then depending on how many actually get sold send a check over to the publisher/developer while keeping a cut of it.
The only way I can see it working for retail is if we're just buying DD codes from them anyway... in which case the used market "dies" for the more practical reason that everyone's gone full DD, no convoluted schemes needed.
Hell,you could probably hack the Skylander's Portal of Power to do it. I mean the game already uses RFID in the toys, it should be a small matter to get it to talk to other RFID chips.
They do whatever the hell they want but they're intentionally limiting their audience that way.
I don't really care if they prefer to lose sales that way.
I know of a specific time where the limit of the demo actually made sure I wasn't buying the product.
Heroes of ruin will never be bought because of the stupid limit I didn't really play it that much and now it's deleted of my 3DS, that other show on Dr House's DVD on the other I might buy it some other time.
Again it's advertisement I don't really care if they do it right or not, but let's not pretend this is a good idea.
Get off your high horse, knighty.
Gamestop and the other provide a valuable service to the industry, they're a very important cog in the marketing strategies of the industry and they even manage to get rid of the surplus of copies the industry would never want to deal with while making sure the money is reinvested in the industry.
Because they don't get to write shitty stories for Heavy Rain doesn't mean they're totally useless.
Speaking of HR, shitty dev was all worried about used game sales spoiling his coffee? Well good job now I can't find a copy of your game new or used.
So much for used games providing unlimited quantities of goods.
That's certainly better than the nothing they'd get if they went another after decades of pissing on their customers.
Do you want to give companies your bank account number too?
What service does publishers provide in the used game business?
If the answer is nothing, since they're not the state they should get nothing.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
If business existed in a changeless vacuum, then you're 100% right.
Never say never.
They don't just pursue this kind of patent with the intent to never ever use it.
That reads to me like you're saying it's an inherent bonus for the PC platform that is embraced by publishers.
Publisher hate this region avoidance thing and there are plenty examples of game companies that wish that didn't happen and for example take steps to block this. (See Bethesda and Steamworks).
This issue has to be looked at from the angle of the publisher, the game developer, the platform holder and the end user.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah. OP obviously can't say much on the potential application (something like an online pass/reactivation fee) but any of that would strongly push me to the competition, they gotta know that when considering this though
also agreed, DD future will already limit by abilities to resell, lend games out etc, doing so even prior to that is madness
Fixed my mistake.
Anyways i believe the sales and discounts will get better on Xbla and PSN when they go complete digital.
PSN didnt offer Day 1 retail games on DD till few months.
The Console Developers will most likly improve it next gen, they have improved this year especially SCEE.
Currently most games they still rely on Retail sales for majority revenue
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
i don't see why so many developers are flocking so steam then, from indie to big publishers and ditching gfwl to steamworks.
as low on steam? no. that doesn't mean games won't keep on dropping in price in the following months as they always have. this just means you won't be able to resell it because it's tied to your psn id.
unknownhero
Member
If sony or microsoft do implement this then I am not buying thier consoles especially if games are still $60 or higher.
The only way that this could ever happen is for Sony and Microsoft to hold hands and do it together. No other way. Sony would be crazy to try this stunt on their own.
Awful move. Used games are the only way a lot of people can play those games, and it helps the new game sales as well because we get credit toward new games when we trade in our used games.
Shooting yourselves in the foot saleswise and a PR blunder...
Funnily enough, I found out about this story from Destructoid which I follow on twitter which led me to wonder if there was a thread on GAF about it yet, only to discover that the source for the Destructoid article was NeoGAF.
Shooting yourselves in the foot saleswise and a PR blunder...
Funnily enough, I found out about this story from Destructoid which I follow on twitter which led me to wonder if there was a thread on GAF about it yet, only to discover that the source for the Destructoid article was NeoGAF.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I believe that was the initial rumor, actually.
Companies research some technology preemptively...not necessarily intending to use but, to have it available if they have to.
It's not enough to say they will or won't use this tech. I think it is interesting though.
grimshawish
Banned
Yeah was EA not supposedly playing them against each other?
Offering to back the system that does this?
We'll see what happens. Maybe Sony will push for the publisher to decide?
Which I would have a hard time 'hating' even if I don't think it really makes economic sense.
You can just ignore those specific games, and certainly would make Sony more comfortable in Japan.
What's up with the unnecessary vitriol and the unrelated rant about Heavy Rain? Do you work for Gamestop?
Anyway, so you're saying that Gamestop is important for marketing. Which is really a part of the industry I could do with less of.
Well, it's not like physical copies will be around for long in the grand scheme of things, so all of this isn't really relevant long-term.