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[C.Dark.DN]

I hope they do start a new name for the console. Playstation name needs to be dropped and start fresh.

Never. They have a Playstation 9 orb to make when I'm 52.

 

[Melchiah]

first screenshot of a ps4 launch title:

I just quote these again.

Can anyone link to a quote from someone at Sony saying that the PS2 was supposed to be capable of "Toy Story graphics". People continually reference this but i've never seen a quote from someone at Sony actually saying it. The only quotes I can find about TS graphics on the PS2 are from the media and not actually anything that Sony said.

Actually it was Microsoft that boasted that their new XBox console will have the Toy Story graphics:

"One of the basic premises of the Xbox is to put the power in the hands of the artist," Blackley said, which is why Xbox developers "are achieving a level of visual detail you really get in 'Toy Story.'"

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-250632.html

 

[Takao]

Thread title mentions cats.

WHERE MY SONY CATS AT

 

[Jira]

I hope they do start a new name for the console. Playstation name needs to be dropped and start fresh.

So kill their entire brand recognition? Good idea.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yeah, they shouldn't even brand it a Sony lulz

 

[Takao]

Yeah, they shouldn't even brand it a Sony lulz

They should call it Kuro.

 

[Log4Girlz]

They should call it Kuro.

The tail could be the power cord.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I just quote these again.

They both used the Toy Story comparison, but things referenced as often as that tend to get buried and lost over time, even on the internet. I was actually digging for it a couple of years ago and found a report from some PlayStation event (on CNN's website, I believe) which linked the statement to someone from Sony, but with no direct quotes.

 

[jeff_rigby]

On PS4 release 2014 using 3D stacking, Apple's next mobile processor will feature 3D stacking in 2012.

The Taiwan Economic News is reporting that TSMC will produce Apple’s next-generation processor, presumably called the A6, and has recently provided samples of the chip to Apple. The story further reports that the new processor will use TSMC’s 28nm bulk process as well as the foundry’s 3D die-stacking technology. After a mask spin, a final version of the chip will enter production in 2Q12 “at the earliest.”

We believe this timing makes sense given the choice of 28nm technology; this pace would make the A6 one of the first 28nm mobile processors (along with Qualcomm’s MSM8960) to enter production. This schedule, however, breaks Apple’s annual processor-upgrade cycle and will delay any products using the A6 until at least June 2012.

We expect the A6 will be a quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 design, which would be competitive with next year’s best mobile processors. In 2012, Nvidia will offer a quad-core Cortex-A9 processor, and Qualcomm will have the aforementioned MSM8960, a dual-core A15-class processor operating at 1.7GHz. Fabricating Apple’s A6 in 28nm (instead of the 40nm process Nvidia is using for its quad-core part) will reduce both die cost and power, yielding a much better product.

TSMC’s 3D stacking technologies include silicon-interposer and bump-on-trace methods. Apple’s choice of this approach would be a boon to TSMC packaging partner Advanced Semiconductor Engineering (ASE). The earlier A4 and A5 processors use traditional die stacking to combine the processor and a DRAM chip in a single package. The A6 could use 3D stacking to incorporate additional DRAM or flash memory, or to boost interconnect speed.

The foundry switch is not without risk. Apple is betting that TSMC will be able to meet the production needs of another high-volume customer on its brand-new 28nm process and 3D die-stacking technology. In the past, TSMC has had problems with new technology (for example, early 40nm yield problems and the Nvidia “bump-crack” issue) that would be unacceptable to a demanding customer like Apple. 

Samsung has been using 3D stacking since 2010 for like on like Memory which results in;

The three-dimensional (3D) chip stacking process is referred to in the memory industry as through silicon via (TSV). Samsung said the TSV process saves up to 40% of the power consumed by a conventional RDIMM. Using the TSV technology will greatly improve chip density in next-generation server systems, Samsung said, making it attractive for high-density, high-performance systems.

The TSV technology creates micron-sized holes through the chip silicon vertically instead of just horizontally, creating a much denser architecture. Samsung said it eventually plans to apply the TSV technology to memory built with 30nm-class and smaller circuitry.

IF Sony is waiting till 2014, the past articles having the PS4 tabled waiting on technology and the OP outlining some of the technology Sony is waiting on must be a second generation, more advanced version of the 3D stacking TSMC is using and mentioned in this article or 20nm or all of this and/or an advanced GPU not seen yet.

PS3 features 3-D and the ability to display 4K with the frame buffer size and CPU power to run a 4K codec like h.265 (HEVC). PS4 will feature 8K video resolutions if only for the medical imaging business in Hirari quotes. Sony will again want to own the IP rights to the GPU like they did (Microsoft owned the rights to the Xbox GPU also) the RSX to manufacture it and the Cell to use in 4k video editing.

In my opinion 300FPS and 8K are not PS5 specs but are design goals for a PS4 for AR and Medical Imaging. OLED makes this a reality in 2 years or so. Medical imaging high res glasses with head tracking as well as 8K monitors with zooming should sell even at very high prices with 1080P AR 3-D glasses now possible with a wired connection, wireless with h.265 compression and something like a cell processor in the headset.

Interesting and applies to what should be next generation, Intel's 22nm Finfets vs. TSMC stacking via TSV .

IBM and Stacking chips This generation 3D stacking with a unique feature, gluing layers together with special glue to dissipate heat.

Such stacking would allow for dramatically higher levels of integration for information technology and consumer electronics applications. Processors could be tightly packed with memory and networking, for example, into a “brick” of silicon that would create a computer chip 1,000 times faster than today’s fastest microprocessor enabling more powerful smartphones, tablets, computers and gaming devices.

modern SOC is not much different from the process in the article I quoted but remember there are two foundries (Global Foundries AMD offshoot producing the AMD GPU) mentioned producing the IBM (CPU) OBAN chip and the method they are to be combined has not been addressed. So two wafers produced by two different foundries are going to be combined...that's not traditional SOC..sounds and I imagine it looks more like my quoted article.

That the chip is named Oban which is a Japanese name for a large stamped coin might indicate Sony-Toshiba involvement.

Dimensions
Height: 152 millimetres
Width: 93 millimetres
Weight: 165.28 grammes

Curator's comments
Ôban were made of hammered gold with a face value of 10 ryô (ounces). The word ôban means 'large stamped [piece]' in Japanese. The earliest ôban were made in the 1580s, when the feudal lord Toyotomi Hideyoshi (1536/7-98) co-operated with wealthy merchants in the Kansai district of central Japan and monopolized Japan's metal mines. He then began to mint gold coins of fixed quality.

The earliest ôban had no inscription - ideal for forgers. To overcome this problem, inscriptions and stamp marks were added. By 1586, the value of the ôban and the signature of the Goto family (the hereditary superintendents of the mint) were handwritten in ink on the front of the ôban. A flower stamp (hanaoshi) was also impressed on the surface. The stamp featured the crest of the paulownia flower (kiri) crest, which was later used in official government and imperial seals.

1) "The earliest ôban had no inscription" Silicon wafers start with no inscriptions, they are blank and are written on.

2) "Weight 165.28 grammes" this could be a subtle reference to the 28nm process.

3) Goto is a popular game

4) "Large stamped piece" is self explaining

That's true. It all depends on the yields for each process. If you have poor manufacturing
yields for very large chips it may make sense to make a 3D stack of smaller chips. The overall yield of that process has potential to be better than that of the large die. The smaller the initial chip, the less sense it takes to stack. See slides: 8-10

Good cite.

 

[Mario007]

On PS4 release 2014 using 3D stacking, Apple's next mobile processor will feature 3D stacking in 2012.

Samsung has been using 3D stacking since 2010 for like on like Memory which results in;

IF Sony is waiting till 2014, the past articles having the PS4 tabled waiting on technology and the OP outlining some of the technology Sony is waiting on must be a second generation, more advanced version of the 3D stacking TSMC is using and mentioned in this article or 20nm or all of this and/or an advanced GPU not seen yet.

PS3 features 3-D and the ability to display 4K with the frame buffer size and CPU power to run a 4K codec like h.265 (HEVC). PS4 will feature 8K video resolutions if only for the medical imaging business in Hirari quotes. Sony will again want to own the IP rights to the GPU like they did (Microsoft owned the rights to the Xbox GPU also) the RSX to manufacture it and the Cell to use in 4k video editing.

In my opinion 300FPS and 8K are not PS5 specs but are design goals for a PS4 for AR and Medical Imaging. OLED makes this a reality in 2 years or so. Medical imaging high res glasses with head tracking as well as 8K monitors with zooming should sell even at very high prices with 1080P AR 3-D glasses now possible with a wired connection, wireless with h.265 compression and something like a cell processor in the headset.

So would that mean we could expect a PS3 slim, with a nice price cut, by holidays this year?

 

[jeff_rigby]

So would that mean we could expect a PS3 slim, with a nice price cut, by holidays this year?

Actually no, it means a major PS3 price reduction will wait for the Nagasaki plant retool to support a smaller die size and stacking and the price reduction using this technology could be significant. Labor costs in producing a Slimmer slim using Stacking would be reduced to the point that Sony could produce a PS3, PS4 and SOME future CE products in Japan economically rather than shipping to China for manufacture. BUT 2014, maybe slightly before for the Nagasaki retool So cheaper PS3 slim will wait for that.

I can see Sony using a PS3 slimmer slim as a proof of concept and having it come out before the PS4. So too many variables...die size etc. to predict.

Remember Sony announced they were skipping the next smaller die process for the PS3 for some unannounced reason. The above appears to be a very possible reason.

 

[Svafnir]

"'Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.'"

Christ I just bought a new TV, the idea of 4k or 8k coming anytime soon is not something im ready for right now.

 

[jeff_rigby]

"'Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.'"

Christ I just bought a new TV, the idea of 4k or 8k coming anytime soon is not something im ready for right now.

Lets be real, 8K displays for consumer use may never happen but having 8K video..still frame or video that can be zoomed into does have uses NOW in medical imaging (mentioned by Hirari). The display can be 4K OLED either using glasses or monitors. Sony apparently thinks 4K is viable for consumers and 4K OLED for LARGER screens economically practical by 2015. In the present, 4K $10k monitors for the medical industry. The PS4 processor and GPU used to drive the 4K monitor allowing zooming into the 8K video stream.

The PS3 Playstation Memories is going to support zooming into video streams like it now does for still pictures. It's only a short jump for the PS3 to support zooming into 4K video streams (PS3 is to support 4K still picture support for 4K monitors beginning 2012). Zooming into 8K streams only possible for a PS4.

The bigger news is IBM Stacking and smaller die size POSSIBLY being used for a Slimmer Slim PS3 and a PS4.

 

[dragonelite]

"'Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.'"

Christ I just bought a new TV, the idea of 4k or 8k coming anytime soon is not something im ready for right now.

I was told im crazy and mental if i expected 4k material in the next 2 years.
Maybe sony is just as crazy and mental like me

 

[Mario007]

Actually no, it means a major PS3 price reduction will wait for the Nagasaki plant retool to support a smaller die size and stacking and the price reduction using this technology could be significant. Labor costs in producing a Slimmer slim using Stacking would be reduced to the point that Sony could produce a PS3, PS4 and SOME future CE products in Japan economically rather than shipping to China for manufacture. BUT 2014, maybe slightly before for the Nagasaki retool So cheaper PS3 slim will wait for that.

I can see Sony using a PS3 slimmer slim as a proof of concept and having it come out before the PS4. So too many variables...die size etc. to predict.

Remember Sony announced they were skipping the next smaller die process for the PS3 for some unannounced reason. The above appears to be a very possible reason.

How long would that retooling take, I wonder. I mean Sony will probably consider another price cut pretty soon seeing as they are failing to meet their own targets, even letting the 360 get ahead on (shipped) units this year.

I guess 2013 gamescon announcement could be likely. I remember back when ps3 was released the ps2 slim was introduced around a year before that so maybe they want to follow the same strategy. If this would lead to a significant decrease in price as opposed to the Xbox next or Wii U then maybe even waiting till 2014 could be justifiable since it could undercut the prices of the other two consoles that would have a year or two to establish themselves on the market.

 

[jeff_rigby]

How long would that retooling take, I wonder. I mean Sony will probably consider another price cut pretty soon seeing as they are failing to meet their own targets, even letting the 360 get ahead on (shipped) units this year.

I guess 2013 gamescon announcement could be likely. I remember back when ps3 was released the ps2 slim was introduced around a year before that so maybe they want to follow the same strategy. If this would lead to a significant decrease in price as opposed to the Xbox next or Wii U then maybe even waiting till 2014 could be justifiable since it could undercut the prices of the other two consoles that would have a year or two to establish themselves on the market.

Retooling depends on the Die size Sony is going with. 28nm would work now for a PS3 Slimmer slim but putting a PS4 CPU and GPU in one package even at 20nm is going to be hard as there will still be alot of heat to dissipate. 28nm and separate CPU and GPU with the GPU able to display 8K. Depends I guess on the Media division of Sony and the Game Division of Sony and their input into the PS4.

Edit: I didn't make it clear, I think 28nm die process equipment is available now but 20nm would wait another year. Anyone up on Forge equipment can answer this better than I can guess.

My thoughts too....there is the complete PS3 OS rewrite started in 2009 that should be released this spring and possibly a year later a Slimmer slim at a VERY reduced price. There is a SMALL chance we might see a PS3.5 version with more memory. If they are going to use a Cell/RSX/memory/Southbridge 3D STACK for something other than just the PS3 then I can see more memory being included.

 

[Maxrunner]

This is all assuming Sony is still around in 2020.

Which going by these topics might not happen...

 

[BlueTsunami]

Unless Sony plans on selling 100+ inch screens, I don't understand the need for 4K video. I'd rather they keep the resolution down and take the bump in framerate.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Which going by these topics might not happen...

A popular opinion which assumes Sony is stupid....keeping up on the little that leaks out of Sony and filling in with speculation would give the opposite view. Just depends on how you look at it and the background information you use.

This spring and the PS3 firmware updates might confirm my view or yours......

Unless Sony plans on selling 100+ inch screens, I don't understand the need for 4K video. I'd rather they keep the resolution down and take the bump in framerate.

You are missing the big picture, Zooming into higher resolution video streams (4k) using a PS3 and a 1080P monitor or down-converting 4K blu-ray to 1080p which results in a 20% better picture. h.265 and a PS3 using a 1080P monitor can support multiple channels or multiple views as well as 4K video.

Stop thinking like Sony is trying to force you to buy a new monitor and think what can be done with your 1080P monitor using the power of a Cell processor. Sony whitepapers confirm they are thinking of using 1080P TVs with advanced features made possible with h.265 (HEVC) which will be used to support 4k blu-ray.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Why not just go with Ultra High Definition Video for PS4 ^__^

 

[BlueTsunami]

Stop thinking like Sony is trying to force you to buy a new monitor and think what can be done with your 1080P monitor using the power of a Cell processor. Sony whitepapers confirm they are thinking of using 1080P TVs with advanced features made possible with h.265 (HEVC) which will be used to support 4k blu-ray.

I'm my post I'm touching on gaming mostly. But if this is a videocentric endeavor I don't think those benefits are worth the large bump in content size just to zoom in on 4K video and smoother image quality.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Why not just go with Ultra High Definition Video for PS4 ^__^

This has already been discussed. Sony in white papers has decided that Consumers can benefit from 4K but higher resolutions are not practical for consumer displays. That does not mean that there is no use for higher resolution media given Zooming...witness Playview and Flash Deep Zooming.

With the smaller node die process, 4K consumer cameras are going to be economically practical (sub $300) but most people will have 1080P TVs. The PS3 will allow consumers using Zooming to see details in their 4K home movies like they can now see using Zooming with 4K and higher still pictures.

h.265 in 2013 plus .28nm die size is going to make 4k blu-ray and consumer 4k cameras practical. It is not a coincidence that both are coming at the same time.

I'm my post I'm touching on gaming mostly. But if this is a videocentric endeavor I don't think those benefits are worth the large bump in content size just to zoom in on 4K video and smoother image quality

h.265

 

[Mario007]

Retooling depends on the Die size Sony is going with. 28nm would work now for a PS3 Slimmer slim but putting a PS4 CPU and GPU in one package even at 20nm is going to be hard as there will still be alot of heat to dissipate. 28nm and separate CPU and GPU with the GPU able to display 8K. Depends I guess on the Media division of Sony and the Game Division of Sony and their input into the PS4.

Edit: I didn't make it clear, I think 28nm die process equipment is available now but 20nm would wait another year. Anyone up on Forge equipment can answer this better than I can guess.

My thoughts too....there is the complete PS3 OS rewrite started in 2009 that should be released this spring and possibly a year later a Slimmer slim at a VERY reduced price. There is a SMALL chance we might see a PS3.5 version with more memory. If they are going to use a Cell/RSX/memory/Southbridge 3D STACK for something other than just the PS3 then I can see more memory being included.

I'm a bit confused by this, then again I'm really no expert at these things. The article you quoted has Apple trying out 3D stacking 28mn processors, so in theory if Nagasaki had the equipment for for 28mn processors now it would suggest that they could try and do the 3D stacking too, right? If so then the possibility of ps3 slim this year seems pretty high.

Also how big is the die in the current ps3 SKUs?

I've been following your posts about the ps3 OS rewrite for about a month in the web browser forum and I must say they were very informative. So the OS rewrite would compromise of a complete change to the look, feel and functions of the OS or would it just add a few more functions, mainly to do with apps and internet experience? Could it also have something to the with the Dot Switching video that was teased by Sony?

 

[jeff_rigby]

I'm a bit confused by this, then again I'm really no expert at these things. The article you quoted has Apple trying out 3D stacking 28mn processors, so in theory if Nagasaki had the equipment for for 28mn processors now it would suggest that they could try and do the 3D stacking too, right? If so then the possibility of ps3 slim this year seems pretty high.

It depends on Sony's roadmap and the Foundry die size they choose. Sony will want to invest ONE time in a retool! IF PS4 requires 20nm then they will wait for 20nm and a PS3 slimmer slim will wait.

It could be that the choice is 28nm as Intel articles mention they had problems with 22nm that they solved using FinFETs. 28nm and stacking can allow a reduction in the Vcc voltage that results in (from articles) 40% reduction in power used thus waste heat. I think it will not be possible to include a PS4 CPU and GPU in one package at 28nm due to heat; PS3 might be possible.

I've been following your posts about the ps3 OS rewrite for about a month in the web browser forum and I must say they were very informative. So the OS rewrite would compromise of a complete change to the look, feel and functions of the OS or would it just add a few more functions, mainly to do with apps and internet experience? Could it also have something to the with the Dot Switching video that was teased by Sony?

I'll leave that question alone as this is not the PS3 browser thread.

 

[Mario007]

It depends on Sony's roadmap and the Foundry die size they choose. It could be that the choice is 28nm as Intel articles mention they had problems with 22nm that they solved using FinFETs. 28nm and stacking can allow a reduction in the Vcc voltage that results in (from articles) 40% reduction in power used thus waste heat. I think it will not be possible to include a PS4 CPU and GPU in one package at 28nm due to heat; PS3 might be possible.

I'll leave that question alone as this is not the PS3 browser thread.

Oh right, that makes sense. I guess if they only have one plant that makes the cell then it wouldn't make sense to retool to 28nm just for a ps3 price cut only to have retool again in 1-2 years.

Could you maybe PM an answer to those questions, 'cause I'm pretty interested in what sort of an update is actually in store for us.

 

[Satchel]

300 fames?

The human eye can't detect anythig above 60, so how about worry about locked 60?

 

[rdrr gnr]

300 fames?

The human eye can't detect anythig above 60, so how about worry about locked 60?

No.

 

[teh_pwn]

FPGA on a console...could be interesting. These things have to meet timing, so if you want true 60 fps locked in hardware, this is your tech. But wildly different than GPUs.

But FPGAs are expensive. lol, Sony.

 

[MisterAnderson]

So is this the "emotion" chip then?

 

[Satchel]

No.

No what?

 

[jeff_rigby]

300 fames?

The human eye can't detect anythig above 60, so how about worry about locked 60?

patsu said it best; 300fps is a budget to be split up among multiple views. An Augmented Reality 3-D application using a head mounted display and displaying on a TV for spectators could use 8 30fps views or 240 of the 300fps budget.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

What about games looking more like CGI? What is resolution going to do for that? Nothing.
Quake 3 at 4k resolution is still Quake 3. Honestly Id be more impressed with an SD demo that looking like CGI (beyond Samariten level).

 

[Fourth Storm]

...yeah, that all sounds really badass.

 

[FanTomasas]

If they can deliver the system for 400$, then I have no problem with these crazy goals.
Nobody will buy the system for these promises, come on Sony, give it a great price and awesome games.

 

[/XX/]

Actually no, it means a major PS3 price reduction will wait for the Nagasaki plant retool to support a smaller die size and stacking and the price reduction using this technology could be significant. Labor costs in producing a Slimmer slim using Stacking would be reduced to the point that Sony could produce a PS3, PS4 and SOME future CE products in Japan economically rather than shipping to China for manufacture. BUT 2014, maybe slightly before for the Nagasaki retool So cheaper PS3 slim will wait for that.

I was wondering... do you have additional information on this? Personally, I think there is no indication that their stance on the actual outsourcing procurement for System LSI is going to chance during the present cycle. Recent considerations (as part of their, government sponsored, important investment plan initiated on late-December 2010) were more inclined towards a continuity of the, thoroughly mentioned, "Asset Light" initiative except in those expanding operative areas and primarily for current Business-to-Business (B2B) Products & Services models, like the CMOS image sensors production.

As a result, and apart from the recently re-tooled Sony Semiconductor Kyushu Corporation (SCK) Nagasaki TEC Building 4 fab line for conversion into a 300mm wafer one as part of said investment, the only half-line actually committed to LSIs fabrication on Nagasaki TEC Building 3 (300mm Silicon On Insulator) is most probably going to be refurbished as well by means of their business focus on the image sensor area:

Investment in Japan focused on refurbishing lines and fabs for new devices
http://www.semiconportal.com/en/archive/news/news-by-sin/111215-line-conversion.html

As I recently said on another thread (http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=33776778&postcount=84), Sony's 'Semiconductor Business Meeting' IR Events give a good insight onto the (very) likewise medium-term operations this corporation is going to face.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I was wondering... do you have additional information on this? Personally, I think there is no indication that their stance on the actual outsourcing procurement for System LSI is going to chance during the present cycle. Recent considerations (as part of their, government sponsored, important investment plan initiated on late-December 2010) were more inclined towards a continuity of the, thoroughly mentioned, "Asset Light" initiative except in those expanding operative areas and primarily for current Business-to-Business (B2B) Products & Services models, like the CMOS image sensors production.

As a result, and apart from the recently re-tooled Sony Semiconductor Kyushu Corporation (SCK) Nagasaki TEC Building 4 fab line for conversion into a 300mm wafer one as part of said investment, the only half-line actually committed to LSIs fabrication on Nagasaki TEC Building 3 (300mm Silicon On Insulator) is most probably going to be refurbished as well by means of their business focus on the image sensor area:

Investment in Japan focused on refurbishing lines and fabs for new devices
http://www.semiconportal.com/en/archive/news/news-by-sin/111215-line-conversion.html

As I recently said on another thread (http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=33776778&postcount=84), Sony's 'Semiconductor Business Meeting' IR Events give a good insight onto the (very) likewise medium-term operations this corporation is going to face.

The first news other than for image sensors is from 2007 when Sony was downsizing. If you do a search for 3D & stacking & Sony and read the projected technology for the PS4 you will see that the IBM stacking process and Sony research are leading to the same end. Increased density and reduction of off chip components which results in reduced labor cost and less reliance on China to manufacture equipment. I've posted PDFs and one of them had Game console (picture of a PS3) benefit from stacking. IBM wafer stacking for the PS4 is I think a given. Sony retooling to use the technology in Japan in 2014-2015 is my opinion.

from 2007 also, The integration of 3D technologies will enable performances, form factor and cost requirements of the next generation of electronic devices:

Five change that will affect power usage applies to all CE not just mobile.

Recall in IFTLE 62 I discussed the nomenclature confusion part of which was "stereoscopic 3D" being confused with 3D IC. [ see IFTLE 62, "3D and interposers: Nomenclature confusion"] Well, I never thought I would see a presentation about 3D IC being used for stereoscopic 3D but that's just what happened when Taiji Utaka, SVP of technology platforms at Sony discussed the incorporation of 3D IC chips into the stereoscopic 3D Sony PlayStation. Sony is looking at the potential of improving 3D image quality by using 3D IC memory to increase performance (pixel fill rate improved by higher bandwidth) and improve latency. Sony sees the major impediment to using 3D IC as current cost, but also includes test protocol, thermal performance, proven reliability, standardization, and the availability of multiple suppliers as issues that need to be improved. Utaka interestingly noted that "game machines are required to have longer lifetime than PCs."

The above is a 2011 article! 3D playstation is probably not referring to a PS3.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

You're not Jeff Rigby!

Jokes aside, that is a lot of information to absorb. Bookmarked for future.

Edit: Jeff Rigby posts above me. Thread redeemed.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

No what?

The human eye can se above 60fps, but not by much. 120 is overkill.

On he same note, many people will see a difference between 60fps and 60fps frame doubled into 120fps.

 

[dragonelite]

The human eye can se above 60fps, but not by much. 120 is overkill.

On he same note, many people will see a difference between 60fps and 60fps frame doubled into 120fps.

I think when most people talk about higher fps they also mean lower input latency.
Maybe a lot can't see above a certain threshold but maybe they will feel it.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I think when most people talk about higher fps they also mean lower input latency.
Maybe a lot can't see above a certain threshold but maybe they will feel it.

I'm really curious if the retina has a refresh rate, and how variable it is between different human beings.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I've been following your posts about the ps3 OS rewrite for about a month in the web browser forum and I must say they were very informative. So the OS rewrite would compromise of a complete change to the look, feel and functions of the OS or would it just add a few more functions, mainly to do with apps and internet experience? Could it also have something to the with the Dot Switching video that was teased by Sony?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QVCB-iJMPd4

I'd guess that the Dot switch is a reference to DLNA and Direct connect WiFi, a standard that was released a couple of months ago. Essentially Plug and Play discovery used for DLNA is leveraged to provide direct connection WiFi rather than a connection through a wireless router. DLNA 1.5, possibly higher, can control a DLNA renderer and might also turn on the renderer....A renderer can be a DLNA TV or the PS3 for example and with DLNA 1.5 can be controlled by a hendheld like Vita or Android. This has already been announced for Sony Networked TVs and I think the Vita-PS3....which essentially means the PS3 should support DLNA 1.5 also.

Verizon and Broadcom which makes many of the Chips in TVs and set top boxes has announced RVU for the Xbox and PS3 which uses a modified DLNA & DTCP-IP & webkit for the UI. Further Broadcom announced the DVR box would downscale the video stream for Tablets and Handhelds. I would think that Sony Blu-Ray recorder boxes as well as the PS3, Vita, S1 and Sony phones would be supported also. PS3 having the ability to down-convert or upconvert to the Vita or other handhelds also.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

I'm really curious if the retina has a refresh rate, and how variable it is between different human beings.

Here someone said that the refresh rate of the retina is 120 fps, after that up to 300 fps humans can perceive a variation in the images they're seeing, but they're not capable of pointing out the change.

This explains something about frame-rate and how it is perceived by the human eye (and brain): http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

On PS4 release 2014 using 3D stacking, Apple's next mobile processor will feature 3D stacking in 2012.

Samsung has been using 3D stacking since 2010 for like on like Memory which results in;

IF Sony is waiting till 2014, the past articles having the PS4 tabled waiting on technology and the OP outlining some of the technology Sony is waiting on must be a second generation, more advanced version of the 3D stacking TSMC is using and mentioned in this article or 20nm or all of this and/or an advanced GPU not seen yet.

PS3 features 3-D and the ability to display 4K with the frame buffer size and CPU power to run a 4K codec like h.265 (HEVC). PS4 will feature 8K video resolutions if only for the medical imaging business in Hirari quotes. Sony will again want to own the IP rights to the GPU like they did (Microsoft owned the rights to the Xbox GPU also) the RSX to manufacture it and the Cell to use in 4k video editing.

In my opinion 300FPS and 8K are not PS5 specs but are design goals for a PS4 for AR and Medical Imaging. OLED makes this a reality in 2 years or so. Medical imaging high res glasses with head tracking as well as 8K monitors with zooming should sell even at very high prices with 1080P AR 3-D glasses now possible with a wired connection, wireless with h.265 compression and something like a cell processor in the headset.

Interesting and applies to what should be next generation, Intel's 22nm Finfets vs. TSMC stacking via TSV .

IBM and Stacking chips This generation 3D stacking with a unique feature, gluing layers together with special glue to dissipate heat.


modern SOC is not much different from the process in the article I quoted but remember there are two foundries (Global Foundries AMD offshoot producing the AMD GPU) mentioned producing the IBM (CPU) OBAN chip and the method they are to be combined has not been addressed. So two wafers produced by two different foundries are going to be combined...that's not traditional SOC..sounds and I imagine it looks more like my quoted article.

That the chip is named Oban which is a Japanese name for a large stamped coin might indicate Sony-Toshiba involvement.



1) "The earliest ôban had no inscription" Silicon wafers start with no inscriptions, they are blank and are written on.

2) "Weight 165.28 grammes" this could be a subtle reference to the 28nm process.

3) Goto is a popular game

4) "Large stamped piece" is self explaining

Good cite.

According to Semiaccurate, the OBAN SOC is for the Next Xbox.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/xbox-nextxbox-720-chips-in-production/

Is it possible both will use the same SOC?

 

[jeff_rigby]

According to Semiaccurate, the OBAN SOC is for the Next Xbox.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/xbox-nextxbox-720-chips-in-production/

Is it possible both will use the same SOC?

That's my guess, Oban is what the Next Xbox GPU or CPU or combination is supposed to be called. Oban is also a Japanese word which might indicate Sony involvement in some way. My other guess is 3D stacking with some standard that allows custom choices of the wafers in the build so Xbox and Sony could each have a different custom version built with many of the same building blocks. Nothing else makes sense to me.

For Sony these "building blocks" used in the 3D stack can be used in their CE platforms and in Medical equipment. Put in what is needed for a custom build.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Thread title mentions cats.

WHERE MY SONY CATS AT

Hello Kitty Oban Coin (Oban as in Xbox Chip and Oban Coin)

People have fallen in love with Hello Kitty coins that are real currency! Can you believe it? In the Taito Ward district of Tokyo you can buy and these silver coins for 950 Yen ($10.20 US) and use them to go shopping. You save a little too as the Hello Kitty coins are worth 1,000 Yen at shops. The coins look a lot like money from the 16th and 17th century.

 

[Sheikh]

i want to believe . However, no matter how hyperbolic these comments seem , they would launch with a very powerful PS4. Theres no additional R&D cost for media since BD is already there. They just have to make sure that GPU and CPU are very powerful

 

[Sheikh]

This is all assuming Sony is still around in 2020.

SONY is a 140+B dollar company in terms of total assets . SONY lost money mostly because of the exchange rate. With europe and USA expected to rebound this year , they would make decent profits for fiscal 2012.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

i want to believe . However, no matter how hyperbolic these comments seem , they would launch with a very powerful PS4. Theres no additional R&D cost for media since BD is already there. They just have to make sure that GPU and CPU are very powerful

i actually believe sony is in a good position to launch a powerful yet affordable ps4.
Bluray costs are nothing special nowadays, they could go for an improved cell cpu to keep costs down and ps3 bc, network parts are also pretty much commodity features now, they just need to get a good amount of ram and a good gpu.

 

[H_Prestige]

i actually believe sony is in a good position to launch a powerful yet affordable ps4.
Bluray costs are nothing special nowadays, they could go for an improved cell cpu to keep costs down and ps3 bc, network parts are also pretty much commodity features now, they just need to get a good amount of ram and a good gpu.

This benefits all three companies, not just Sony. Yet Nintendo still made a very modest system and it seems MS is following suit. I expect the same with Sony. All three systems will debut around $350 IMO.

 

[Sheikh]

i actually believe sony is in a good position to launch a powerful yet affordable ps4.
Bluray costs are nothing special nowadays, they could go for an improved cell cpu to keep costs down and ps3 bc, network parts are also pretty much commodity features now, they just need to get a good amount of ram and a good gpu.

exactly BD costs are around 14$ per unit . They can come up with a much faster drive. 8 gig/16gig RAM at launch would cost around 40$ - 70$ only. for comparison sake, XDR RAMwhich was used in PS3 cost 129$ at launch ,since it wasnt a mass produced thing

more RAM , very powerful CPU , very powerful GPU ---> a massively leap in terms of GFX and FPS------> a huge smile of existing fanbase