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[Phoenician_Viking]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

Sony are talking to Viacom, Disney, Fox and Time Warner over a massive shakeup of IPTV. The service would almost be like cable, but over the internet. The channels and content from these major companies would be offered via Sony's new PS-TV service (available via PS4, PS3, and a bunch of other Sony devices, plus Android and iOS), consumers would pay Sony a monthly sub fee and Sony pay for content licencing/carriage over PS TV. For Sony it gets them around the age old problem of not being able to own their own network because they are Japanese and by partnering with TW, they are looking to cut a deal for cheap bandwidth. One of the guys also expects them to cut deals with AT&T and other major ISPs for prime bandwidth (non-neutral internet).

Finally, he said Sony don't expect to make any money from the venture for at least 5 years which they think will be all about hooking in consumers and content providers, stupidly Sony would have to licence their own content from Starz, but at a reduced rate because of certain clauses in their deal. He said after the 5 year period Sony think they will have a large enough consumer base to dictate terms to content providers and ISPs to increase margins, and their content licencing deal with Starz comes to an end so that would represent a major annual saving. He said Sony want to launch Sony TV channels and Sony Movie channels with all of their own content which is vast because it includes Screen Gems.

What a stupid plan! These companies will be on other devices as well. There´s no way that they will be exclusive to Sony, because of competitive reasons. So making profit as soon as the service starts should be priority for Sony.

 

[avaya]

Out of curiosity are you a confirmed insider? Using Time Warner interchangeably between the cable company and the media conglomerate makes me think you arent seeing as twc is a publicly traded company that only license its name from Time Warner at this point.

He is an insider or should be treated as such. No bullshit.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

That is ambitious. Any word if Level 3, Cogent or Verizon also being talked to?

The one guy only said AT&T and others, they could well be in the "others" category. Targeting backbone providers makes sense though.

...Wow.

That is crazy-aggressive. I might have expected Google to do something like this, but not Sony. Damn, that's insane.

Well this is Sony under Kaz, which from what I have learned so far is aggressive and innovative. Kaz has personally ripped up the whole camera division's future plans as being too by the numbers and asked them to come up with a new plan that will disrupt the current market leaders. I guess this is the same thinking applied to SEN/SPE. Plus, with Loeb's threat of break up looming over SPE I figure the upper management are finally ready to listen to the grand plan rather than being a company that makes content and licences it away for a song.

Out of curiosity are you a confirmed insider? Using Time Warner interchangeably between the cable company and the media conglomerate makes me think you arent seeing as twc is a publicly traded company that only license its name from Time Warner at this point.

I'm just going on the city rumours right now. Seriously this is me regurgitating what I have been told with basically no edits. If it's wrong then I apologise in advance for that. It could be that I misunderstood him and Sony are partnering separately with TWC and AT&T for bandwidth.

What a stupid plan! These companies will be on other devices as well. There´s no way that they will be exclusive to Sony, because of competitive reasons. So making profit as soon as the service starts should be priority for Sony.

I think it's about being first more than it being exclusive

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I think it's about being first more than it being exclusive

But 5 years is a long time. Sony can get people to buy PS4 for that but if people who buy it as a cable box, do not buy games, Sony does not get anything for 5 years.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

But 5 years is a long time. Sony can get people to buy PS4 for that but if people who buy it as a cable box, do not buy games, Sony does not get anything for 5 years.

It's a long game tactic. The market will not be disrupted overnight and be profitable. Look at PlayStation, it completely disrupted the market but the project didn't make money for 3 years because the hardware was a loss leader.

That makes sense to me, the entrenched players are so powerful at this time that either Sony are in it to make money and have a couple of million subscribers or they are in it to win and profit from the venture "in the future".

 

[twobear]

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

 

[Mung]

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

PS4 has more power and better RAM for games. Xbox had the RAM quantity set by the OS requirements. Also they aren't pushing TV down our throats. So yes, it is still more games first.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

Tbh, this thread shouldn't be in the gaming section. SCE aren't really involved in any of this other than possibly lending their branding for a while.

It's like asking if Microsoft are still a software services company because one of their divisions sells computer mice and webcams.

 

[Nightengale]

But 5 years is a long time. Sony can get people to buy PS4 for that but if people who buy it as a cable box, do not buy games, Sony does not get anything for 5 years.

But neither do they lose money. ( I'm assuming they'll at least break even, or lose little at most)

Besides, if this takes off, then Sony technically benefits in other ways since it establishes their service-platform ( being first, and doing it well have an impact ), which will also increase the sales of their overall hardware ( TV, phones, Playstation )

It's definitely not a good approach from a profitability standpoint, but if they stand to at least not lose money via alternative revenue streams, then this could potentially go a long way to differentiate or at least return some notches to Sony's overall brand proposition.

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

This is no different from MS's NFL deal or Sony's sponsorship of football in Europe. It's a company-wide deal that benefits the related divisions.

Besides, if this materialises, it'll be on the PS3 as well... and Bravia TVs, so the hardware is of little relevance.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

But neither do they lose money. ( I'm assuming they'll at least break even, or lose little at most)

Besides, if this takes off, then Sony technically benefits in other ways since it establishes their service-platform ( being first, and doing it well have an impact ), which will also increase the sales of their overall hardware ( TV, phones, Playstation )

It's definitely not a good approach from a profitability standpoint, but if they stand to at least not lose money via alternative revenue streams, then this could potentially go a long way to differentiate or at least return some notches to Sony's overall brand proposition.

It can be viewed like iTunes in that regard. Something that isn't wildly profitable, but keeps people hooked into Apple's ecosystem. If Sony's IPTV platforms is only available on Android, iOS, and Sony devices then it will definitely be a differentiator for them in terms of TV and Blu-ray player sales. Even in terms of PS4/Xbone it might push people to switch from 360 to PS4 (which given the schedule is clearly what they want) in the US. So sure, the streaming won't make them any money, but getting people hooked into Sony devices definitely will.

I think I read somewhere that Sony were number three in the world in selling internet connected devices to consumers after Samsung and Apple. They have a huge installed base of internet connected devices (PlayStation, Vaio, Xperia) which they can push their new service to with firmware updates and preloaded software.

 

[Mindwipe]

Tbh, this thread shouldn't be in the gaming section. SCE aren't really involved in any of this other than possibly lending their branding for a while.

It's like asking if Microsoft are still a software services company because one of their divisions sells computer mice and webcams.

Yeah, it's a big Sony proposition of which the PS4 will be a client device, but only one of many.

It's not really a SCE thing.

 

[Becky]

He said Sony are looking at a Q4 roll out with PS4, but that could slip to Q1. He thinks it will definitely happen, even if they just launch with Viacom, Disney and SPE/Starz at first, with Fox and TW joining in 2014.

His guess for pricing.

$5.99 ad supported VoD similar content to Netflix
$9.99 same but no ads

~$30/m for TV channels, some premium from Viacom, ABC and SPE

~$80m for all regular and premium programming on cable TV, every TV channel you can think of.

Additional monthly fees for sports programming, can be added as an extra to any package.

He also said Sony's deal with Disney would be much wider than what MS are doing with ESPN. Also, the deals are being made by SEN and SPE, not SCE.

No word on non-US roll out. Sony are waiting for a key piece of EU regulation to go through that will allow for single market content licencing across all EU27 nations, that is expected to happen in 2014.

$9.99 for a Netflix clone doesn't make sense. Why would I switch from Netflix and pay more to Sony?

$30 for TV channels. How many channels. Might be a good option depending on the selection.

$80m for all regular cable TV channels. That is what I pay now for all the channels and I dont have to worry about bandwidth caps. Also, no way they are going to be able to sign up all the channels from everyone on cable. No way.

Pay extra for Sports on top of those packages kills it.

 

[AndyD]

$9.99 for a Netflix clone doesn't make sense. Why would I switch from Netflix and pay more to Sony?

Because these groups may just pull their stuff from Netflix. Or not release it on Netflix until much later.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

$9.99 for a Netflix clone doesn't make sense. Why would I switch from Netflix and pay more to Sony?

$30 for TV channels. How many channels. Might be a good option depending on the selection.

$80m for all regular cable TV channels. That is what I pay now for all the channels and I dont have to worry about bandwidth caps. Also, no way they are going to be able to sign up all the channels from everyone on cable. No way.

Pay extra for Sports on top of those packages kills it.

Yeah, that's just the guy's guess though. He is an industry person, but still just his guess.

 

[Bundy]

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

They are!

 

[driver116]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

Sony are talking to Viacom, Disney, Fox and Time Warner over a massive shakeup of IPTV. The service would almost be like cable, but over the internet. The channels and content from these major companies would be offered via Sony's new PS-TV service (available via PS4, PS3, and a bunch of other Sony devices, plus Android and iOS), consumers would pay Sony a monthly sub fee and Sony pay for content licencing/carriage over PS TV. For Sony it gets them around the age old problem of not being able to own their own network because they are Japanese and by partnering with TW, they are looking to cut a deal for cheap bandwidth. One of the guys also expects them to cut deals with AT&T and other major ISPs for prime bandwidth (non-neutral internet).

Finally, he said Sony don't expect to make any money from the venture for at least 5 years which they think will be all about hooking in consumers and content providers, stupidly Sony would have to licence their own content from Starz, but at a reduced rate because of certain clauses in their deal. He said after the 5 year period Sony think they will have a large enough consumer base to dictate terms to content providers and ISPs to increase margins, and their content licencing deal with Starz comes to an end so that would represent a major annual saving. He said Sony want to launch Sony TV channels and Sony Movie channels with all of their own content which is vast because it includes Screen Gems.

Sounds interesting. They could definitely stand out from the crowd by leveraging their massive movie and TV libraries.

 

[Tom Penny]

What If I can't afford internet how am I supposed to use this feature?

 

[pharmboy044]

I wonder if this can lead to a subsidized PS4.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

What If I can't afford internet how am I supposed to use this feature?

That's a you problem.

 

[driver116]

What If I can't afford internet how am I supposed to use this feature?

The same as if you can't afford PS+, you won't be able to use it.

 

[Oppo]

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

*raises hand*

This is IP based, as in Internet based. It's much more appealing to a cable cutter like myself than MS's US-based cable box interoperability.

Sony has two entire content arms, it would be dumb for them to not try and leverage deals through a popular media player. That said I see Ms trying to emulate these original content arms to some degree, and their whole Entertainment division is a big ball of wax, so they tend to try and "synergize" (kill me) these strategies under the same roof. Sony has the movie studio, the record label, and Sony Computer Entertainment arms. They arrange deals and software hooks internally with SCE. I do believe the SCE's are focused on games, yes.

Edit- gofreak, up top

 

[gofreak]

So is anybody still labouring under the pretense that PS4 is more 'games first' than Xbone in anything other than PR?

Microsoft's other ambitions for Xbox actually hurt its potential as a games machine.

Sony prioritised games to the hilt in PS4's design, there were no such tradeoffs.

So...yes. I would still 'labour under that pretense'

 

[AndyD]

Microsoft's other ambitions for Xbox actually hurt its potential as a games machine.

Sony prioritised games to the hilt in PS4's design, there were no such tradeoffs.

So...yes. I would still 'labour under that pretense'

Pretty much. One is a side service that is entirely optional and not even dependent on the game console. The other is a design from day one that changes the game console everywhere (for better or worse) from hardware to software.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I don't understand how this will work on the PS4 without a Kinect attached. /s

I wonder if this can lead to a subsidized PS4.

This might be Sony's "in" to a subsidized model. I could see that if there's enough content being offered.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Just seen this on Yahoo.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Because these groups may just pull their stuff from Netflix. Or not release it on Netflix until much later.

You mean these companies pulling content from Netflix? No way, not on something this unproven. Netflix is a juggernaut.

 

[Boke1879]

Just seen this on Yahoo.

It begins

 

[Sub_Level]

Until you want to watch something on cable that isn't viacom.

Jersey Shore is all you need bro. Breaking Bad and GoT can be bought months after they air.

 

[Boke1879]

Until you want to watch something on cable that isn't viacom.

Viacom will be the first. Clearly it's been stated that Sony is in talks with others. With a major content provider in Viacom showing support more will follow.

 

[medze]

I, and most of my friends, cut the cable cord a long time ago so this is good news. Even though I have little interest in 90% of TV programming, I'd be more likely to subscribe to the shows/channels I do like if I can stream them through my internet connection. This really does make the X1 feature of daisy chaining it to a cable box seem really antiquated and outdated. Let's hope it ends up working as they desire.

 

[Kalamari]

This is the sort of thing you think MS would have done in order to compete with Apple TV. But, nope, it's Sony.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I live in the US. So, there's that. What I'm wondering is, how many channels would Sony offer? Do we know? On GI they just mention Viacom owning CC, CBS, MTV and a couple others. I would totally cut cable and view this as a great venture, but I would certainly need a lot more than that. Like I said earlier, this is a dumb question, but is Sony getting like all/most of the normal channels. As in ESPN, Fox, ABC, FX, etc., or is this just about the few Viacom currently owns?

CBS isn't owned by Viacom anymore. That said, even if they couldn't get the major cable operators on board Viacom, CBS, Fox and Disney would be a pretty awesome foundation for a cord-cutting service. If people start switching in large numbers that would put pressure on Comcast and Time Warner to sign deals since their channels would be losing eyeballs.

It can be viewed like iTunes in that regard. Something that isn't wildly profitable, but keeps people hooked into Apple's ecosystem. If Sony's IPTV platforms is only available on Android, iOS, and Sony devices then it will definitely be a differentiator for them in terms of TV and Blu-ray player sales. Even in terms of PS4/Xbone it might push people to switch from 360 to PS4 (which given the schedule is clearly what they want) in the US. So sure, the streaming won't make them any money, but getting people hooked into Sony devices definitely will.

I think I read somewhere that Sony were number three in the world in selling internet connected devices to consumers after Samsung and Apple. They have a huge installed base of internet connected devices (PlayStation, Vaio, Xperia) which they can push their new service to with firmware updates and preloaded software.

I think it would be a mistake to tie it too strongly to Sony devices. If they want the service widely adopted they need to support as many platforms as is feasible. There's no reason not to support Roku and AppleTV apps, at least. Maybe even Xbox down the line if the console war is well in hand... Their own TV service does open the opportunity to subsidize PS4s with service contracts.

This is the sort of thing you think MS would have done in order to compete with Apple TV. But, nope, it's Sony.

This is exactly the sort of thing many people expected from Microsoft before the Xbox One was announced with it's HDMI passthrough. Pachter, in particular said he thought MS would make a deal with someone like Comcast so they could offer cable subscriptions through Xbox One (subsidized with a contract) so they wouldn't be restricted by the service areas created by the cable they buried. It would be pretty ironic if Sony ushers in the revolution these people were expecting from Microsoft.

 

[darkazcura]

Don't mean to bump this thread as I have no news or anything, but what are people's thoughts about this now that the VitaTV has been announced? Now I know this service has been linked with the PS4, but if Sony brings this to the Vita, this could be the major shakeup people have been looking for with the cable model. The 99 dollar price point (like the AppleTV) is the perfect entry price point to get people on the IPTV bandwagon.

 

[Caddle]

Look at this shit, spin baby spin, the hypocrites are out tonight.

 

[Dragon]

Look at this shit, spin baby spin, the hypocrites are out tonight.

Whoareyoutalkingto.gif

 

[GodofWine]

Look at this shit, spin baby spin, the hypocrites are out tonight.

Sony didnt announce their console by talking about the NFL and Halo TV show. This is not equal to that.

but, on topic, they seem to be getting their ecosystem in order, where on device supports the other, and enourages the purhase of the other, regardless of which one you buy first.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Don't mean to bump this thread as I have no news or anything, but what are people's thoughts about this now that the VitaTV has been announced? Now I know this service has been linked with the PS4, but if Sony brings this to the Vita, this could be the major shakeup people have been looking for with the cable model. The 99 dollar price point (like the AppleTV) is the perfect entry price point to get people on the IPTV bandwagon.

Both this potential IPTV service and Gaikai came immediately to my mind when this was announced. In theory you could buy one of these for every TV in your house and get access to basically every PlayStation game, plus a full TV service AND Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll and YouTube at all of them.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Hbo and showtime?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Do it, Sony!

Screw cable!

 

[Caddle]

Doesn't matter how they announced the console, this is the same thing that GAF shits on the xbox one for.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Doesn't matter how they announced the console, this is the same thing that GAF shits on the xbox one for.

I think you can clearly see how both have handled themselves. One is trucking along and the other is working on an apology tour.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Look at this shit, spin baby spin, the hypocrites are out tonight.

Where's that Jim Carrey gif when you need it?

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Look at this shit, spin baby spin, the hypocrites are out tonight.

Doesn't matter how they announced the console, this is the same thing that GAF shits on the xbox one for.

Man, your post history is gold!

 

[Skeff]

Doesn't matter how they announced the console, this is the same thing that GAF shits on the xbox one for.

"GAF" as a single entity eh?

One console is games with Multimedia.
One console is multimedia with games.

One console chose 8gb ram from the get go to include media features at the expense of gaming power, slower ram pool means ESRAM is necessary and less space on APU die for GPU.

One console gambled on Faster RAM and added media functionality when they found 8gb was actually possible, when the architecture of the PS4 was decided on, they would have been laughed at if they said they would have 8gb GDDR5.

 

[boredandlazy]

Look at this shit, spin baby spin, the hypocrites are out tonight.

Isn't you calling out people for spinning stuff and then labelling them hypocrites rather... hypocritical?

 

[Wickerbasket]

"GAF" as a single entity eh?

One console is games with Multimedia.
One console is multimedia with games.

One console chose 8gb ram from the get go to include media features at the expense of gaming power, slower ram pool means ESRAM is necessary and less space on APU die for GPU.

One console gambled on Faster RAM and added media functionality when they found 8gb was actually possible, when the architecture of the PS4 was decided on, they would have been laughed at if they said they would have 8gb GDDR5.

Read his post history, and then ask yourself why you're even quoting him.

 

[Skeff]

Read his post history, and then ask yourself why you're even quoting him.

Yeh, I just did, how the hell is he still here?

Only got about 5 posts into his history and read something nice about him wanting fanboys to jump off a bridge.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80494297&highlight=#post80494297

keeping it classy.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Doesn't matter how they announced the console, this is the same thing that GAF shits on the xbox one for.

 

[AndyD]

Both this potential IPTV service and Gaikai came immediately to my mind when this was announced. In theory you could buy one of these for every TV in your house and get access to basically every PlayStation game, plus a full TV service AND Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll and YouTube at all of them.

Pretty much what I thought too. Gaikai and PS4 remote play were my two go to things.

 

[satam55]

New info from last week:

Sony Is Keeping PlayStation’s Internet TV Options Open

NOVEMBER 11, 2013 | 02:30PM PT

Todd Spangler Digital Editor, New York

When Sony launches the PlayStation 4 this week, the tricked-out $399 console will have a number of new features — but it won’t give gamers a way to watch live TV channels.

In an interview, Mike Aragon, VP and g.m. of global digital video and music services for Sony Network Entertainment, said the company is still exploring several different ways to bring cable TV to PlayStation consoles.

“I don’t think we have an answer yet,” Aragon said. “We are looking at lots of things…. there are multiple paths that can get you there.”

On one front, Sony has been working to secure programming agreements for an Internet-delivered television service, designed to be competitive with cable and satellite services. This summer, the electronics company this summer reached a preliminary agreement with Viacom to carry Nickelodeon, MTV, Comedy Central and other cable networks on such an “over-the-top” service, delivered on PlayStation and other Sony devices, the Wall Street Journal reported.

That won’t happen, at least this year. (Aragon declined to discuss details of the over-the-top TV initiative.)

Nor will PlayStation 4 provide a way to hook into pay TV boxes, the way Microsoft’s Xbox One — set to ship Nov. 22 — will be able to pull in cable and satellite providers’ guides via an HDMI cable. Not many customers “were asking for those kinds of capabilities,” Aragon claimed.

Instead, Aragon and his team focused on improving the “user experience” for PS users with respect to entertainment.

The No. 1 request: PlayStation customers wanted a way to listen to music while also playing videogames. That’s now available in the PS4, letting subscribers of the Music Unlimited service pick from up to 22 million songs to listen to during gameplay.

For video, a key change is that the PS4 will stream all video in adaptive bit-rate format; the PS3 uses a progressive-download playback mechanism. With streaming, video selections will start faster (in under 10 seconds versus 30 seconds or longer), according to Aragon. Also, titles purchased or rented from Sony’s Video Unlimited store will not have to be stored on the console’s hard drive, freeing up space for games and other data.

The PlayStation 4, while it won’t have live cable TV, will launch with 11 entertainment apps, including Netflix, Amazon Instant Video, Hulu Plus, Crackle, Crunchyroll, Epix, NBA Game Time, NHL Gamecenter, Redbox Instant, Vudu and YuppTV.

Industry observers have expressed skepticism about whether a “virtual MSO” can create a pay-TV bundle that would truly be competitive with incumbent operators.

Intel, one of the most public challengers hoping to break into this market, had previously expected to debut its Internet TV service this year. But the chip maker pushed back plans to 2014 as it looks for a partner to help it gain critical mass on distribution. The company also has struggled to land programming agreement with TV networks.

Recently Intel has discussed different potential partnerships with Verizon Communications and other companies to launch the broadband pay-TV service.

http://variety.com/2013/digital/news/sony-is-keeping-playstations-internet-tv-options-open-1200820052/