KernelPanic
Member
Dave Long said:
Why do people keep blaming Sony (instead of Sega) for the death of the Dreamcast ?
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Sony, the masters of spoiling the party
- Thread starter Chittagong
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Why do people keep blaming Sony (instead of Sega) for the death of the Dreamcast ?
commariodore64
Member
Because Sega was still releasing quality software when the PS2 came and ate away it's market.KernelPanic said:
In fact, for the first year of the PS2 I think Timesplitters was the only thing keeping me away from my DC...
Diablohead
Member
You just read why, plus the post above mine.KernelPanic said:
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
I agree this is very yesterdays news, but I can also understand where he's comming from. No one and I mean NO ONE in the history of gaming systems or almost any product or manufacturer for that matter has ever spread as much FUD as sony, everything from the insanly inflated PS2\PS3 specs to the "next gen starts when we say it does" and like comments\actions. It's really is pretty sad some of the thigns their willing to stoop to, microsoft no angel but strickly speaking about consoles they've been alot more up front and transparent about whats going on behind the curtains.
Dave Long said:Sony's use of this tactic to completely and utterly destroy Sega's Dreamcast is where it really grates my britches. People back then were so hyped up on Saddam Hussein steering missles with PS2 and ragging on the DC that they completely missed out on one of the best console lineups in history.
Now they're all buying Soul Calibur on Xbox Live Marketplace and have no idea how much has been chopped out of the original game or how crap it plays on Microsoft's shitty d-pad.
Just curious, but how long are people going to lay the Dreamcast failure solely at the feet at the Sony hype machine and conveniently ignore the bumbling and stumbling Sega went through prior to and during the Dreamcast launch and their inability to capture any sort of mainstream interest in the console at all?
Chittagong
Gold Member
onemic said:
Nope - even if I didn't like Sony a whole lot, I couldn't hold a grudge after what they gave as their E3 2006 show.
I think this is relevant only now, as it's truly possible to evaluate the promises made, as many of the facts are starting to be known.
Also, I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong. It's proven quite powerful. Sony is best doing it. Nintendo is very good hyping things without showing them. Microsoft is not good at hyping anything.
I would rank N64 right up there next to Sony's best efforts though. From the dream team to the "SGI on your desktop story", and from completely unrealistic game footage to vaporware, it was smoke and mirrors.
It seems, however, that more often than not, these efforts go down in flames or at least backfire (N64, PSP, PS3 - where PS2 is the anomaly).
Notice the difference to Apple - who announces a new product to great hype 6 months before release, but it is exactly identical to the final thing.
commariodore64
Member
Sega CD was too little too late. The 32X was unnecessary. And the Saturn kicked ass!!!!!!! Then failed miserably thanks to the Sony hype machine and marketing muscle....chubigans said:
I blame SOA more than SOJ...
BruceWayneIII
Member
tinfoilhatman said:
RROD says hello - I don't think 'up front and transparent' fits MS's way of dealing with it. :lol
They could've at least put the TT team on it imo, or yeah farmed it out. GTmobile is likely going to be highest profile case of intentional vaporware in history.Fafalada said:
NCL said from the outset that the Rebirth demo was largely to show the clarity in GCN's video playback and that it was mostly prerendered (though bits were realtime iirc). It was also always just a tech demo, never pushed as a game (a la the recent PS3 cancellations).Spiegel said:
I dunno, RROD didn't even penetrate the mainstream until Microsoft acknowledged it and extended their warranty. If anything it proves they're likely less skilled with the PR than Sony, who's past consoles have had similarly alarming defect rates and been on the losing end of repeated class action lawsuits (remember "sideways PlayStation" in the 1990s?).bloody pirate said:
Yes, which is what I said originally (NOT Sony), for the billionth time. :lolTheBranca18 said:
Still, "Toy Story graphics" started with PS2.
Yeah, Wave Race GCN was heartbreaking all around. Doesn't help that Mattassama was telling all that NST had achieved the same thing in realtime (and 60fps iirc) prelaunch.Zerodoppler said:This is the worst bait and switch ever. I wanted to believe that the game would look pretty close to this, but then Nintendo delivered fucking Blue Storm.
commariodore64 said:
Virtually no EA support for the DC + no DVD drive killed it faster than Sony alone. The original XBox was doing horribly until MS agreed to kill their sports division and allow EA to connect to their private network in order to get EA Sports on the platform. Say what you will about EA, but EA, but they have proven to be one of the key ingredients to a console's success. (EXCEPT the Wii
)commariodore64
Member
And what with their promise of Dual 1080p HDMI output, Router capabilties, 120fps, no GPU, 4D gaming and... oh wait - wrong one....BruceWayneIII said:
Admitting to an error goes along way... ignoring errors, well that's different... MS never said the RROD never happened - they extended a 3yr warranty and made step to fix it (which seems to be working, btw)...
A console can't survive solely on the support of fanboys and enthusiasts, you have to attract mainstream interest in the console in order to sell enough hardware to maintain its viability. The dreamcast had some good ideas with online gaming and yes, its 99 launch line-up was great. Unfortunately, their 2000 and 2001 line-ups were not as spectacular, and the mainstream audience, you know the ones who don't frequent GAF, IGN or read EGM or care about E3 hype, did not care about the machine. If it makes you feel better to blame Sony, go ahead, the fact is that the console would have been dead by the end of 2001 by the time the GC and Xbox launched (people forget they factor into the demise as well).
commariodore64
Member
cRIPticon said:Virtually no EA support for the DC + no DVD drive killed it faster than Sony alone. The original XBox was doing horribly until MS agreed to kill their sports division and allow EA to connect to their private network in order to get EA Sports on the platform. Say what you will about EA, but EA, but they have proven to be one of the key ingredients to a console's success. (EXCEPT the Wii
The EA issue with DC era was NOT Sega's doing... and did NOT have an effect overall. (Segas 2K sports franchise was highly regarded at the time..)
EA made crap games at that time (Xcom?)... Madden survived in name only...
As for the Xbox - again - MS had to persuade EA to work with them due to their close relationship with Sony. But, again - to say EA is the deal breaker for any console is overblown.
BruceWayneIII
Member
Chittagong said:
Apple's approach is different, yes. But I really do think things are quite different in the games industry. All three major console players clash almost at the same time trying to show their upcoming product. A product that will be a major platform for hundredes of other companies in a very large market where everyone is competing for attention. But MS had a differently deadline than Sony and Nintendo. Obviously, MS/Sony and Nintendo have different value propositions too. Sony's only alternative choice at that time (E3 '05) would have been not to talk about the PS3 (because the product wasn't ready). And I don't think that would have been a very wise move...
commariodore64 said:
If so, then you must not know anyone in management that worked at SEGA during this era. SOA couldn't do a THING without SOJ sticking their nose in it and redirecting, just to "put SOA in it's place". I blame SOJ and really felt sorry for Tom Kalinske and the Stolar incoming team.....
KernelPanic
Member
Diablohead said:
Don't get we wrong, the DC was a great system and I was sad to see it go but Sega already tarnished its reputation badly when the DC launched (such as EA not supporting it -- a huge loss). It was already too late.
Blaming Sony is like blaming Sega for killing 3DFx imo.
MisterSINISTER
Member
still waiting for games that let me do half the shit in the wiimote demo video
Rapping Granny
Banned
oh noes Sony is lies, PStripple no games, giant crabes lulz.
commariodore64 said:
The fact remains that EA refused to support the DC and even stated that it would go the way of the 3DO as a result. And, to be honest, the barrage of platforms that SEGA introduced that EA supported, against their better judgment, is what ultimately burned the SEGA/EA relationship. So, yes, it was actually SEGA's fault.
BruceWayneIII
Member
commariodore64 said:And what with their promise of Dual 1080p HDMI output, Router capabilties, 120fps, no GPU, 4D gaming and... oh wait - wrong one....
Admitting to an error goes along way... ignoring errors, well that's different... MS never said the RROD never happened - they extended a 3yr warranty and made step to fix it (which seems to be working, btw)...
First of all, you and no one else bought anything at that time and got less. Second, the product wasn't finished (and therefore hardly an error).
The only reason MS gave a warranty was because a withdrawal and a fundamental redesign of the hardware would have thrown their first-mover next-gen approach into the sewer. It's one thing to offer warranty for people who bought a faulty product, but, no matter their spin on it: it's never ok to continue to ship a product for so long, knowing it's faulty. There's really no excuse for that.
commariodore64
Member
Madden 32X? Madden Saturn? Didn't recall those....cRIPticon said:
I'm saying it wasn't an issue outside the dedicated gamer sphere... Microsoft's admission was when the mainstream took notice.TheBranca18 said:
Right... "someone" =/= Sony.TheBranca18 said:
They started with a sourced PS2 hardware article. Which Sony never seemed to correct.TheBranca18 said:
Might be interesting if said "fucking reporter" ever went on record saying where he got it from though. :lol
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Aw cmon, the hilarity from the hyperbole that these companies come out with is one of the only positive contributions to society they make.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to recharge my 360 with human energy, say wow at my wii's graphics and jack into the matrix on my ps3.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to recharge my 360 with human energy, say wow at my wii's graphics and jack into the matrix on my ps3.
Wrong. It was not about Sony. It had to do with a competing sports franchise and dev studio as well as a network that captured all player data. EA forced MS to kill their sports franchises and allow them to keep their data separate on the network in exchange for bringing EA Sports to the XBox. As for the deal breaking power of EA, name one mainstream console that survived more than a year that had no EA support? Would 3DO even made it 6 months without EA? No. Not one console (in the US at least).commariodore64 said:
I think I have read this argument thousand of times in different boards. OP is right.
Approving a 1.5 billion warranty policy coupled with an official apology is about as transparent as you can get. I don't think you really understand what "transparent" means in this context.BruceWayneIII said:
I don't want to get into the bickering, but yeah, nobody is more guilty of smoke and mirrors than Sony in this industry. It's shameless and way too often an occurrence.
I still have a PS1, PS2, PS3, and PSP, but I've never bought one getting everything that Sony had once led me to believe I was getting.
I still have a PS1, PS2, PS3, and PSP, but I've never bought one getting everything that Sony had once led me to believe I was getting.
BruceWayneIII
Member
Crovax33 said:
:lol Transparent? In this context? Is this a joke post? :lol
You obviously have forgotten months after months of not telling and admitting major-worldclass-hardware-sloppyness. That's not upfront nor transparent. That's just a bad way of treating customers. Can't believe how many people bought into Microsofts statement 'that the most important thing is how we treat our customers'. If that was so important, they wouldn't have continued so long to ship a faulty product in the first place. Yes, finally, they did something - but I sincerely don't hope other eletronic manufacturers will ever go down that road. It's just beyond believable.
With Eight Days, I thought Studio Soho implicitly said so? With GTmobile at least we know that's the case (PD never even started actual R&D iirc).Spiegel said:
Raven Balde was in actual development and got canceled almost as soon as it was announced (along with a suite of other Retro titles). There's a pretty clear difference here...
Like Sony has before? :loljay said:
Things are not as easy. They cannot determine the rate of failure by counting the number of calls. Also, they cannot release a warranty policy without actually knowing whats wrong with the machine and how much it will cost them to repair all the current failures and the expected ones. From a bussiness standpoint of view, Microsoft acted fast, and the warranty was retroactive. They send money back to everybody who had paid for a repair due to the red ring. Its a shame they rushed the console, but they handled it the best way possible. For example, Intel back in the 1990's launched a series of processors with a division bug. They opted to ignore the problem and lie to the customer. Only experienced people who were able to point out what was wrong with the processor during the customer service call would get a new one back. Nobody remembers now.jay said:
They reimbursed all the money paid to MS in repairs. Also sent complimentary Xbox Live cards and games.BruceWayneIII said:
commariodore64
Member
Or the PS2 blue/gold disc read errors?jarrod said:
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