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South Carolina CNN Dem Debate (Obama: Yet to determine if Bill is, in fact, a brotha)

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C

Cheebs

Member
if you guys think hillary is doing these muslim emails you are just LOOKING for ways to attack hillary. If there were sexist emails about Hillary and I randomly said I bet they are from Obama himself I'd get stoned to death.

edit: bill is def. campaigning in SC this week. He wasnt last night cause hillary was there.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Cheebs said:
if you guys think hillary is doing these muslim emails you are just LOOKING for ways to attack hillary. If there were sexist emails about Hillary and I randomly said I bet they are from Obama himself I'd get stoned to death.

edit: bill is def. campaigning in SC this week. He wasnt last night cause hillary was there.
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the thing about the muslim e-mails was not directly related to the rest of my post.

which was this:

"yes, and just as hillary stated. she isnt accountable for anything he (bill) says. thats just the point CowboyAstronaut was trying to make. she allows other people within her campaign to make these crazy allegations, and then wipes her hands clean after some of the backlash.. but by then the damage is done."



btw. there arent any sexist e-mail about hillary, so can you stop conjecturing please..... at least not to the same degree as the obama e-mails. im constantly meeting people who i have to correct when they say he is a muslim. i blame fox news actually. it all started because of their shit reporting.
 
C

CowboyAstronaut

Banned
Cheebs said:
if you guys think hillary is doing these muslim emails you are just LOOKING for ways to attack hillary. If there were sexist emails about Hillary and I randomly said I bet they are from Obama himself I'd get stoned to death.

edit: bill is def. campaigning in SC this week. He wasnt last night cause hillary was there.
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Very true and I at one point was a big Bill and Hilary supporter, but Hilary, sadly, already has a past tie to these Obama is a muslim e-mails. It was found out a while back that someone in her campaign was responsible for the sending and forwarding of a lot of these e-mails and yet again someone in her campaign was found to be doing something else dishonest and in both situations she attempts to wipe her hands clean of it as if she knew nothing at all about what was going on by simply stating "they are no longer apart of the campaign"

But the problem with that is. Mission accomplished! It is out there it is being talked about. These 2 people that have been removed from the Clinton campaign in the past few months or so were not merely people with meaningless roles to her campaign. I just can't believe these things are all just coincidence it's all intelligent politics.

Another thing I truly dislike on her campaign's part is how Obama has tried to stay as far away from being seen as playing the race card as humanely possible and they successfully managed to drag him into a dialect about race. Hilary and Bill Clinton are by no means racists. They've done a lot for the black community which I can attest to firsthand, but what I do believe strongly is that they hoped by dragging Obama into this race discussion that they would successfully play to the not so better half of certain individuals in this country that may still have some deep seeded discriminatory beliefs.

It's all political. One thing that Hilary's campaign can never be accused of is not being well versed on how to run a smart campaign, but I do believe there are lines that should never be crossed. A race discussion hurts both Obama and Hilary, but it hurts Obama more. There are just certain ghosts that should never be let out of the closet. Hilary didn't in any shape or form mean anything negative with that statement she made about Dr. King, but the way it was phrased by her it's rather difficult for someone to not see it as her indirectly downplaying his impact on the civil rights movement.

I'm a black man and there is nothing I hate more than an African American individual who tries to play the race card. I consider an accusation of playing the race card as the biggest insult there is. It's one of the reasons I greatly dislike Al Sharpton. Hilary after her ill advised statement regarding Dr. King instead of simply clarifying and or apologizing for the way it came out instead chose to politicize it by using it to go on the attack against Obama by stating that he was injecting race into the campaign. I saw his response to Hilary's comment and it was in no shape or form an attempt to inject race. He simply reacted to the statement stating that it was unfortunate and didn't go much further than that.
 
T

timmy

Member
Cheebs said:
if you guys think hillary is doing these muslim emails you are just LOOKING for ways to attack hillary.
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Fair enough, but to flat-out deny any involvement on her or her campaign's part would just be naive.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Tamanon said:
I would just like to point out how humorous this "educated versus non-educated" debate is considering several liberal GAFFers use it when discussing Republican vs Democrat.
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Well throwing out blanket claims that one party or one candidate's supporters are mentally superior or blanket assertions of being informed versus being uninformed without any context are foolish. I'll occasionally point to studies where Fox viewers are often uninformed on specific issues relating to the war for instance. ex. Who attacked us, Who was involved etc. Without a specific charge relating to anything, I'll agree it is quite foolish.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Juice said:
No winner. Ratings will be pretty low.
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Oh yeah. Wrong and Wrong.

Political combat continues to hold the interest of television viewers, with Monday's Democratic debate on CNN setting a standard as most-watched debate ever in cable news.
An estimated 4.9 million people watched Monday's show from South Carolina, which featured contentious exchanges between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. It eclipsed CNN's Nov. 28 debate with Republican candidates, which had nearly 4.5 million viewers, according to Nielsen Media Research.
Cable still doesn't have the reach of broadcast TV, however: ABC's prime-time Democratic debate on Jan. 5 before the New Hampshire primary was seen by 9.36 million people, Nielsen said.
Seven of the 10 most-watched primary debates in cable TV history are from this election cycle. Such debates have been shown on cable TV since 1996.
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A

Atrus

Gold Member
grandjedi6 said:
Despite all of Hillary's advantages (superdelegates, Debates, Bill Clinton, better polling numbers), the fact that Obama is not only still in the race but essentially tieing with her in every state is awe-inspiring. It leads me to believe that this race is going to go on for a while, with anything possible
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Certainly but at this point it's very dubious as to whether Obama can overcome Billary. Since the Iowa loss, the Clinton campaign has been ramping up their campaign. All appearance of pursuing a mature campaign went out the window with constant attacks leveraged by her campaign, and Bill Clinton is now filling in for his wife by substituting himself for the candidate.

So when she is tied up with the other candidates in a debate, he is simultaneously in another state campaigning. Tag-teaming back and forth. What this strategy is aiming for is to make sure that the Clintons have an almost continued presence in other states, California in particular.

If you look at the delegate totals per state, California is a huge battle ground as is New York. In order to make up for any differences in delegates lost there, candidates would have to come through in a lot of other smaller delegate states.

Whatever strategy available to him it's an extremely steep hill to climb, and he has to ramp up an already ramped up campaign. If anything he should have moved from his 'change' strategy the moment the others started to jump on the bandwagon and move to one of 'transcendence'.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Remember that NH recount where the election was stolen.

The recount of Democratic primary votes in New Hampshire that Cleveland's Dennis Kucinich requested hasn't changed any candidate's voting percentage "by more than a few hundredths of a percentage point so far," the Nashua Telegraph newspaper reports today.

Kucinich paid $27,000 to recount about 40 percent of New Hampshire's Democratic ballots after Hillary Clinton polled disproportionately well in machine-counted parts of the state. According to the Telegraph, the partial vote count Kucinich paid for may be finished this week, after which he'll decide whether to pay approximately $40,000 more to recount the rest of the state's Democratic votes.
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http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/01/few_errors_found_in_nh_recount.html
 
C

CowboyAstronaut

Banned
Atrus said:
Certainly but at this point it's very dubious as to whether Obama can overcome Billary. Since the Iowa loss, the Clinton campaign has been ramping up their campaign. All appearance of pursuing a mature campaign went out the window with constant attacks leveraged by her campaign, and Bill Clinton is now filling in for his wife by substituting himself for the candidate.

So when she is tied up with the other candidates in a debate, he is simultaneously in another state campaigning. Tag-teaming back and forth. What this strategy is aiming for is to make sure that the Clintons have an almost continued presence in other states, California in particular.

If you look at the delegate totals per state, California is a huge battle ground as is New York. In order to make up for any differences in delegates lost there, candidates would have to come through in a lot of other smaller delegate states.

Whatever strategy available to him it's an extremely steep hill to climb, and he has to ramp up an already ramped up campaign. If anything he should have moved from his 'change' strategy the moment the others started to jump on the bandwagon and move to one of 'transcendence'.
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Very good point, but what I notice, despite Hilary's wins starting with New Hampshire, Obama is still very much looking as strong as he ever did and is still receiving all sorts of big support.

I mean, back in 2005 or 2006 nobody in the world, especially myself, would have been able to predict Obama would be competing with Hilary like this. Since his loss in New Hampshire he still has that sorta front runner buzz to him and it seems that despite Hilary's win in New Hampshire and Nevada it still looks as if he she is chasing Obama and the tag team of Bill and Hill that has been going on emphasizes this further I think. He's still getting major endorsements, he's having more political heavyweights speaking up for him and treating him as a big asset to the Democratic party and there is a lot of not so behind the scenes talking going on that a Obama, Hilary or Hilary, Obama ticket is the only guarantee that the Democrats could take back the white house.

I think what the New Hampshire and Nevada wins have done for Hilary is that it has prevented Obama hype from reaching insurmountable heights and has kept her relevant and I honestly can't believe I'm saying such a thing about Hilary Clinton, but she really doesn't look like the sure thing that she once appeared to be. Speaking of falling giants, will Giuliani's campaign strategy thus far go down as one of the most embarrassing missed attempts in political history or what? His strategy is totally going by the wayside because people are paying attention to all these primaries in a way they've never done before.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
Off-topic but...I did an interview for the county news tonight about my support of Obama and my leadership and coordination of the Obama supporters in the area. Was pretty cool. I did a decent job, got the message acrossed, and the reporter was smoking hot too:lol
 
F

Feral Youth

Banned
2q32efakf0.jpg
 
N

NWO

Member
CowboyAstronaut said:
Just watching CNN suddenly all these e-mails going out about him being muslim are getting worse especially now that they are stating he has ties to "Radical Islam"
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Hannity has been going on that Obama's mentor/pastor is friends with Louis Farrakhan or something like that. Search youtube for when Hannity interviewed the guy almost a year ago and Hannity was trying to paint the church Obama went to as being some racist black church.

These Muslim rumblings aren't coming from Hilliary they have been surrounding Obama for over a year as Fox News has been pushing the shit (Hannity). If he becomes the nominee Fox News will run these rumors with "Is Obama a terrorist?" and then get away with it because they use a question mark. They do it all the time and will continue to do it.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
NWO said:
Hannity has been going on that Obama's mentor/pastor is friends with Louis Farrakhan or something like that. Search youtube for when Hannity interviewed the guy almost a year ago and Hannity was trying to paint the church Obama went to as being some racist black church.

These Muslim rumblings aren't coming from Hilliary they have been surrounding Obama for over a year as Fox News has been pushing the shit (Hannity). If he becomes the nominee Fox News will run these rumors with "Is Obama a terrorist?" and then get away with it because they use a question mark. They do it all the time and will continue to do it.
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cant they get sued for defamation of character? their allegations are so outlandish. i really dont get it.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
quadriplegicjon said:
cant they get sued for defamation of character? their allegations are so outlandish. i really dont get it.
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Freedom of the press is easier to defend than Defamation, since Freedom of the Press is guarenteed while defamation has to be proved.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/22/obama-battles-muslim-rumor-head-on/

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Democrat Barack Obama stepped up his efforts Tuesday to battle back against e-mails that falsely label him a Muslim, telling an interviewer the ongoing rumors were part of a "systematic political strategy."

"I think it 's very important for people not to buy into the kinds of dirty tricks that we've become so accustomed to in our politics, and people need to understand I'm not and never have been of the Muslim faith," he told CBN's David Brody.

In e-mail messages that have been circulating as long as Obama has been a presidential candidate, the Illinois senator is said be a Muslim who refuses to recite the pledge of allegiance, and one who "joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background." In fact, Obama has never been a Muslim.

"I think that those who are of the Muslim faith are deserving of respect and dignity, but to try and feed into this fear-mongering and try to question my faith commitments and my belief in Jesus Christ, I think is offensive," Obama also said. "And I want to make sure that people are absolutely clear about what's going on with this, and if they get another one of these e-mails that they're deleting it and letting their friends know that it's nonsense."

Obama did not hypothesize who was behind the e-mails, but noted, "somehow they appear magically wherever the next primary or caucus is."

His comments are the latest in a heightened effort to beat back the Internet rumors ahead of South Carolina's Democratic primary Saturday.

In recent days, his campaign has launched a TV ad that quotes his now-famous 2004 speech in which he said, "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes.” And in a new mailer to South Carolina Democrats – the latest in a months-long series of religious-themed messages in the state — Obama is called a "Committed Christian," who "felt a beckoning of the spirit and accepted Jesus Christ into his life." The mailer pictures the senator standing behind a pulpit, with an organ and a cross in the background.
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EDIT

i just noticed the title change. :lol
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho said:
here in NY Elliot Spitzer was elected on the grounds of being a sweeping reformer who would clean Albany up and push hard for ethic reform rules. the problem is, no one on either side of the aisle wanted to go along for the ride and he was slowly ostracized by both Bruno and Silver. i'm not saying that will befall Obama as he has a lot more support in Congress than Spitzer ever has, but it's worth considering.
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Resistance to ethics and campaign finance reform is one of the few things that consistently draws bipartisan support. You have small windows where the public gets outraged enough that it becomes very urgent (right after the '06 midterms) and long stretches where it largely disappears (now).

I'm a little surprised there isn't more support for public funding. The time and effort spend fundraising by Congresspeople is pretty unreal, from what I've heard.
 
X

xS1TH L0RDx

Banned
a quick question: can anyone tell me when the next debate is, republican or democrat? i'm interested in both.

thanks for any and all info.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
xS1TH L0RDx said:
a quick question: can anyone tell me when the next debate is, republican or democrat? i'm interested in both.

thanks for any and all info.
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florida is the next primary (after SC). in about 7 days. im not sure, but i would think there would be a republican debate some time in between.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
iirc Dems SC is Sat, Reps Florida is tuesday.

How long till we should move on from this thread to a SC/Florida prediction thread?
 
F

Forceatowulf

G***n S**n*bi
Hmmm I'm not very political so I never really took notice of Edwards until now, I always cheered on Obama because he's just more likable, but I was really impressed with him(Edwards) after watching the first segment of the debate, he seems like a good guy, very intelligent and knows what he's talking about. He just gave me this really good vibe, the vibe of a leader.
 
V

v1cious

Banned
Hmmm I'm not very political so I never really took notice of Edwards until now, I always cheered on Obama because he's just more likable, but I was really impressed with him(Edwards) after watching the first segment of the debate, he seems like a good guy, very intelligent and knows what he's talking about. He just gave me this really good vibe, the vibe of a leader.
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well that's not exactly hard, all he had to do was sit back and look while they were fighting. my grand hope is that Obama wins South Carolina and Edwards drops out to endorse him. i mean come on, 4 states? he's gotta realize by this point that he's not getting the nomination. all he's doing is splitting the vote.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
v1cious said:
well that's not exactly hard, all he had to do was sit back and look while they were fighting. my grand hope is that Obama wins South Carolina and Edwards drops out to endorse him. i mean come on, 4 states? he's gotta realize by this point that he's not getting the nomination. all he's doing is splitting the vote.
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not likely.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/22/clinton-edwards-hold-private-post-debate-meeting/

"Clinton, Edwards hold private post-debate meeting"


i bet he thinks she'll win, so he's trying to get a vice president nod.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
GREENVILLE — Former President Bill Clinton said today that he would take Senator Barack Obama up on his challenge last night to prove himself as the first black president by entering a dance competition — against Mr. Obama.

Mr. Obama was asked at last night’s debate whether Mr. Clinton was “the first black president,” as Toni Morrison, the novelist, has said. Mr. Obama replied that he would first have to see whether Mr. Clinton can dance before calling him a brother. It was a brief moment of levity in a contentious slug-fest of a debate with Senator Hillary Clinton and former Senator John Edwards.

In response to a question at a town hall meeting here today, Mr. Clinton said, “I would be willing to engage in a dancing competition with him, even though he’s much thinner and younger than I am, but only if I got an age allowance.”
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:lol
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
the Clintons finally found a way to counter Obama's race as a selling point. well done :lol
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
From what I read the Edwards/Clinton meeting seemed rather ordinary. But then again, Obama has been attacking Edwards a lot more recently, and there's no way he'd give him the VP spot. I just don't see why Clinton would give it to a loser like Edwards
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Edwards is taking Obama for an obvious reason - he's the clear favorite in South Carolina. I'd be surprised if it was anything more than that.
 
A

avaya

Member
Finally had time to watch this.

HOLY SHIT.

Shameless mud-slinging from Hillary and Barack! Walmart lawyer and slum lord comments were out of no where!

Edwards really seems like the best candidate in terms of ideas and policies. Shame he has no chance of winning.
 
C

CowboyAstronaut

Banned
avaya said:
Finally had time to watch this.

HOLY SHIT.

Shameless mud-slinging from Hillary and Barack! Walmart lawyer and slum lord comments were out of no where!

Edwards really seems like the best candidate in terms of ideas and policies. Shame he has no chance of winning.
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I wouldn't go so far he's been one of the bigger mud slingers, but due to his dwindling chances he's now trying to appear as the candidate that takes the high road. He was at one time one of Hilary's biggest oppositions and would sling every chance he got at earlier debates.

One thing I can say for sure about Edwards though is that he's passionate. He really does care about a lot of things he says he's fighting for or against. Hilary seems to be more about making history. I find it very hard to find a sincere bone in her body.
 
A

avaya

Member
CowboyAstronaut said:
I wouldn't go so far he's been one of the bigger mud slingers, but due to his dwindling chances he's now trying to appear as the candidate that takes the high road. He was at one time one of Hilary's biggest oppositions and would sling every chance he got at earlier debates.

One thing I can say for sure about Edwards though is that he's passionate. He really does care about a lot of things he says he's fighting for or against. Hilary seems to be more about making history. I find it very hard to find a sincere bone in her body.
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Yeah I'd agree with that, he was pretty much the instigator in the early debates but I didn't find it nearly as bad as these two got.

It's funny seeing US politicians acting like their UK counterparts, this sort of direct in your face confrontational debate is par for the course here.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
harSon said:
Jesus Christ :lol I loved Bill Clinton but his sleazy tactics are starting to test my patience.
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What would you do in his shoes. It is hard to remember but look at it from BILL, not from Hillary's.

Bill Clinton if Hillary loses will go down in history as a solid 2 term president with a good economy but hurt by personal scandals. Not much history or legacy there.

If Hillary wins he'll instantly go down in history by the endless "firsts" he will break as will his political power since he basically would be the only president since FDR to run three campaigns and win. History books will be written about him and "The Clintons" for hundreds of years.

Bill is playing dirty right now because his place in history is on the line.

A forgetable solid president or one that broke records and will go down in history? Hillary's election determines that place.
 
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