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Speculating about a Nintendo Switch mini

swit

Member
of course there will be a mini version of the Switch for handheld players that don't care about TV mode. I'm waiting for such revision before jumping in. Hopefully Nintendo will release it sooner than later (I think holidays 2018 date is likely).

A Switch revision without ugly black bezel would be nice too (mockup found on google)
isb1mp9.jpg
 
I think the switch could have avoided this problem if they ditched the joycons and made the bezel way smaller (seriously its ridiculous). The joycons dont add much as they are bad controllers when only using one and the motion controller stuff is just more gimmicky fluff.

Basically that switch mini should have been the switch but with less bezel and still a 6 inch screen. Could still be compatible with the dock too.

The Joycons are the reason the Switch is the way it is. It's like saying that Nintendo will sell the Wii U without the pad.

Btw, the Switch is already using plastic screens instead of glass. How child friendly can you really get with this set-up?
 

atbigelow

Member
Why risk confusing the issue? The minute you have "this is a switch mini but this doesnt work with it but that does", you suddenly have to add labels to all the old games and market chaos ensues. Also, a smaller screen would make much of the in game text hard to read. For the first time in years, Nintendo has a product that everybody gets. Why change it?

Because they have to? They are not going to have one single piece of current gen hardware to sell for four years unless the Switch ends up tanking like the Wii U.

If Nintendo is serious about keeping their platform "alive", they'll diversify it into different equivalent models.

And you can easily avoid the label problem by... not splitting the library. Anything Nintendo makes from here on out must be compatible.
 

deadlast

Member
The Joycons are the reason the Switch is the way it is. It's like saying that Nintendo will sell the Wii U without the pad.

Btw, the Switch is already using plastic screens instead of glass. How child friendly can you really get with this set-up?
I don't know how Nintendo make this happen. Maybe if they had experience.
nintendo_3ds_family-625x352.jpg
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
I don't know how Nintendo make this happen. Maybe if they had experience.

Anything is possible, but IMO 3D was not nearly as important to the success of the platform as the hybrid nature of Switch is. I'm sure there will be some sort of revision, but to literally take away that simple selling point selling systems seems unlikely to me.
 

Snakeyes

Member
Here's another option;

- Keep the screen the same size but shave off the bezels.
- Make the the Joycons shorter to match the tablet's smaller size.

And there's your Switch Mini.
 

udivision

Member
Here's another option;

- Keep the screen the same size but shave off the bezels.
- Make the the Joycons shorter to match the tablet's smaller size.

And there's your Switch Mini.
I guess breaking Joy Con compatiblity doesn't matter because you only need one set that can physically attach to the system. You just need some charging grips for the rest I guess.
 

Snakeyes

Member
I guess breaking Joy Con compatiblity doesn't matter because you only need one set that can physically attach to the system. You just need some charging grips for the rest I guess.

The latching mechanism is at the top, so different sized Joycons, while awkward, could still retain compatibility across the board.
 
Most of the OP lines up with what I've been thinking. I mean, even without taking into account future shrunken versions of the Tegra to make things cheaper and smaller, they could probably pull off a sub-$200 model today if they controllers weren't separable, it didn't include the dock or grip, and maybe included a weaker AC adapter (since it doesn't have to power the dock). Two years from now $150 or better sounds doable--if they need to.

I totally disagree with the people who say every Switch must include a dock and yada yada yada. There's definitely a market for a cheaper simpler device, and cutting the cost of the dock by making it an optional purchase for a secondary model is an easy and obvious move. Is Nintendo no longer allowed to sell a fully portable aimed device? Are they only allowed to if they shoot themselves in the foot by making one that doesn't play Switch software?

I'm not sure whether they go for a more Vita-like or 3DSXL-like form factor, but it doesn't really make much difference in the end. I don't think worrying about fitting into the original model dock is a big deal, really. DSi didn't use the same cases, styluses, or AC adapter as original DS and we all survived.

One other thing I think would be Good for a Switch Mini to be able to do is have a low power mode screen-off mode where it basically acts like a Pro Controller for playing multiplayer games on someone else's Switch.
vern said:
Why sell for 100 when you can sell them for 300 as fast as you can build them?
Why sell the 2DS when you can sell the New 3DSXL?
blly155 said:
A dock must be included. It shouldn't be left out just to cut the cost. It's a piece of plastic with some ports...how much does it really cost Nintendo to make?
This was my thinking a half year ago. Then we learned the dock was selling for $60, and wasn't actually exorbitantly priced compared to other similar devices.
Buggy Loop said:
4) Data suggests that gamers tends towards the XL versions of handhels
Switch is already essentially an XL XL model system. This would be more like a single XL version, not the GB micro.
 
I'm not really worried about the Switch name, after seeing what they managed with the 3DS. Switch game packaging already marks which play styles are compatible on the back cover, although I'm sure there'd still be some customer confusion. The main issues in terms of software compatibility are:

1) Enabling motion control games to be compatible - easily workable if external joycon support is still enabled. But external motion controls and a smaller portable screen are a bad match.

2) Enabling games with local or split-screen multiplayer - might be impractical, but they can still give it a kickstand and let people squint.

3) Allowing for a docked mode - Not absolutely necessary, but would help alleviate the issues with the small screen. Compatibility with the current or a future docking method shouldn't be too hard.

If they're replacing the 3DS and 2DS the important thing isn't to maintain ALL software compatibility with Switch, it's to have an architecture that allows for easy ports of large amounts of software between Switch and "4DS". If they decide to forgo some software compatibility, they can ditch the Switch brand name entirely and/or chose to go the download-only route. If all purchases are done through an online store there'll be little confusion about compatibility.

Heck, if the Dock + HDMI cable + Wall Charger really costs about $90, they could just sell a debundled version right now called the Switch Go at a little over $210. Wouldn't even have to change the main unit's hardware.
 

lutheran

Member
While I think it is imperative that the follow-up to the 3DS family be the Switch or a compatible derivative, this is Nintendo we are talking about. In their hearts and souls the Wii U was an anomaly, a system that too closely resembled the Wii to the casual market. You just know they think the Switch on it's own as a hybrid will do great business. I hope that doesn't make them pursue a totally different piece of hardware to be a true successor to the 3DS. I don't think the Switch will survive without the support of the many 3DS developers and all of Nintendo's first party developers.
 

kirby_fox

Banned
Lots of issues here. First would be the potential overheating issue- the dock is made that way for airflow. Not including one but allowing a connection to TV could cause overheating problems switching to dock mode. Second would be game compatibility- as the idea of Switch is to take it other places and being multiplayer out of the box. That message is gone in this revision. Third, the idea of just creating a smaller Switch would cause issues with creating new joy-cons and confusion among consumers. The Switch controllers already being pretty small separated would not work well going any smaller. This also ignores needing to shrink a lot of what's inside the system and make it work without overheating.

My expectations are that they will target kids with cell phones/mobile games to get the family to buy a Switch system. We will see more colors for the system, but it will mostly stay the same while add-ons are created to replace joy-cons. There is potential they create an upgraded Switch VR down the line, essentially as a "Switch Pro" with a better screen in order to play and support VR in a more streamlined fashion (current Switch has some issues being used for VR). But this is only if Nintendo sees VR as profitable.

When you consider the kids market is going to phones, it makes sense.
 
If they're replacing the 3DS and 2DS the important thing isn't to maintain ALL software compatibility with Switch, it's to have an architecture that allows for easy ports of large amounts of software between Switch and "4DS". If they decide to forgo some software compatibility, they can ditch the Switch brand name entirely and/or chose to go the download-only route. If all purchases are done through an online store there'll be little confusion about compatibility.

No, that definitely is the important thing. Nintendo will have to make a choice between a Switch mini or a cheap and cheerful 3DS style handheld- it can't be both, that would be incredibly confusing for everyone. "Here's our new handheld which plays some Switch games but not others!"

The download only thing would also be confusing, as you'd still have the same issues- people hearing about Switch games in the media and having no idea which ones will be available on the 'Switch mini' Eshop. If Switch is the main system, those games are going to be seen as consumers as 'Switch games', so to muddy the water around that would be pointless.


Heck, if the Dock + HDMI cable + Wall Charger really costs about $90, they could just sell a debundled version right now called the Switch Go at a little over $210. Wouldn't even have to change the main unit's hardware.

It doesn't cost $90, it costs very little whatsoever. Nintendo is making very little profit on the Switch itself, so the proprietary accessories have high margins to help make up for it. Pretty standard.
 

joesiv

Member
I guess breaking Joy Con compatiblity doesn't matter because you only need one set that can physically attach to the system. You just need some charging grips for the rest I guess.
how about a gameboy sp style where the bottom portion detaches as well as clamshells. single joy con mode!
 

HYDE

Banned
Make it like 4.5" and it can be docked but only comes with a cable, if you want dock it's sold separately. Like there's a usbc-HDMI thing.

Would require a die shrink too for thermals to fit.

My thoughts too...just include an HDMI cable to plug into a tv.

Love the clamshell idea too.
 

wildfire

Banned
Probable switch mini specs that differ from original unit.



14nm tegra x1
2800 or 3000 mah battery
2 usb c ports

540p display
21 x 10.2 x 1.4 cm

Dock not included
 

Megatron

Member
Here's another option;

- Keep the screen the same size but shave off the bezels.
- Make the the Joycons shorter to match the tablet's smaller size.

And there's your Switch Mini.


Lol. You think it's worth having two products with the same display, but one just has more plastic around it? Like if Apple kept the gen 4 iPad and the gen 5 iPad and sold the 5 as a 'mini'? Lol. Who would buy the bigger version? Someone who really likes extra plastic bezels? If they make a mini, the screen will be smaller. The kind of refinement you are talking about would be a 'switch lite' that succeeds the original system, not something that sells next to it as its own product. It could happen, but is separate from this.

On topic, I don't care about a Switch mini at the moment. I like dreaming about Sony releasing a portable ps4 against the switch. Dock and everything. I would love to see Sony do this. Charge $400, hell $500. I'd be there.
 
of course there will be a mini version of the Switch for handheld players that don't care about TV mode. I'm waiting for such revision before jumping in. Hopefully Nintendo will release it sooner than later (I think holidays 2018 date is likely).

A Switch revision without ugly black bezel would be nice too (mockup found on google)
isb1mp9.jpg
Cool, not the dock would really scratch the screen instead of just the off screen sides!
 

Snakeyes

Member
Lol. You think it's worth having two products with the same display, but one just has more plastic around it? Like if Apple kept the gen 4 iPad and the gen 5 iPad and sold the 5 as a 'mini'? Lol. Who would buy the bigger version? Someone who really likes extra plastic bezels?
Obviously, they'll make a full-size Switch with smaller bezels and a larger screen as well.
 

atbigelow

Member
Probable switch mini specs that differ from original unit.



14nm tegra x1
2800 or 3000 mah battery
2 usb c ports

540p display
21 x 10.2 x 1.4 cm

Dock not included

The point is to not fragment the library. Adding a 540p mode for games would complicate the whole thing. And why add another Type-C?

Whatever Nintendo makes, it needs 100% compatibility with handheld-only Switch games. Nintendo talked platform platform platform when the Switch was being made. They know they can't keep fragmented userbases anymore.
 
the main technical issue i see is battery life, given it'd have to be considerably smaller while still using the same chipset. you'd want a pascal version of the X1 at least (which would basically just be a dieshrink) just to match the current switch's endurance, which is already not great but just about acceptable considering the docking paradigm. and that's before you get into thermals and dock design.

another problem is that games with UIs and text designed for a TV already don't look great on a 6.2-inch screen, and things would get tiny on a 5-inch. zelda is already pushing the boundaries of comfortable reading.

a 9-inch-ish switch XL seems much more likely to me before a switch mini. you could keep joycon compatibility, increase battery life, and vastly improve the portable local multiplayer experience all without having any obvious technical roadblocks or necessary platform changes. the only sacrifice would be pixel density, which nintendo demonstrably doesn't care about, and portability, which isn't really an issue given that the switch already needs a case and a bag.

TV-only switch would be even lower-hanging fruit, though it'd be strategically odd to release it soon. but down the line that'll be a really easy way to offer a super inexpensive console.
 
Honestly, a 2DS version of the Switch just makes too much sense for it not to happen in one way or another. How can they pull it off in a way that makes sense and does not confuse the users is a real head-scratcher though.

The "easiest" thing would be to release a portable-only system that plays the same games as the Switch. It would have to have a different name if it doesn't work as a hybrid. Some people might get confused I guess, but in the end of the day the 2ds plays 3ds games, and it seems consumers were okay with that.
 

antonz

Member
The 2DS was a waste of time. Its a small fraction of sales. If anything Sales have long shown people preferred the larger more expensive option handheld wise not the smaller cheaper one.
 

watershed

Banned
The 2DS was a waste of time. Its a small fraction of sales. If anything Sales have long shown people preferred the larger more expensive option handheld wise not the smaller cheaper one.

Do you have sales figures to back this up? I've seen lots of kids with the 2ds. I think it makes sense as a cheap entry into the 3ds software family. Game prices are the same, so Nintendo just made it cheaper for people to access their games.
 
So wait, is the idea that you could still buy a dock and a pro controller separately? Then put the Switch Mini in the dock and use the pro controller to play on TV if you want to? Seems confusing to the average customer.
 

D.Lo

Member
The 2DS was a waste of time. Its a small fraction of sales. If anything Sales have long shown people preferred the larger more expensive option handheld wise not the smaller cheaper one.
Do you think you can just make shit up? Nintendo publishes the breakdowns.

2DS has sold over seven million consoles to last December. It's actually outsold N3DS and N3DS LL/XL combined in Europe/Asia/Oceania. XL models are the most popular in the US but the regular N3DS was not released in the US for ages and is still only in limited release, and 2DS has still done well in the US. (~3 million) Really Japan is the only place it has been 'a small fraction of sales'

It's the clear entry level version of the platform and has been a large success during the Pokemon Sun/Moon launch.
 

wildfire

Banned
The point is to not fragment the library. Adding a 540p mode for games would complicate the whole thing. And why add another Type-C?

Whatever Nintendo makes, it needs 100% compatibility with handheld-only Switch games. Nintendo talked platform platform platform when the Switch was being made. They know they can't keep fragmented userbases anymore.


I doubt an exact 2 to 1 resolution ratio would cause fragmentation.
 

greelay

Member
I do not think this will happen. In my opinion, people are underestimating the difficulty that would come with releasing a revision. If you change the size too much (bigger or smaller), your dock and joycons are not going to be compatible. And at that point, I do not think it is a switch anymore.

But maybe that is a possibility...two nintendo consoles, that are basically the exact same, with different names that play the same games but have different sizes. I think that is the only way something like this exists. Have the Switch and this hypothetical system exist together. Business-wise I am not sure how it would work, or how game distribution should be handled at that point.

The one thing that I think is kinda likely is the idea of selling a switch without a dock. I think selling the dock separately allows them to do this. And this could be good for certain people who never dock their system, or maybe there is some family that has like six kids, and switches for each of them, but they really only need one dock (so they buy one full switch with dock, and then five just switches).
 

ggx2ac

Member
Is selling $60 games a non-issue for a Switch Mini?

I get that people want to have a portable only Switch that might not be able to dock. But now they have to pay $60 for games when with 3DS it used to be $40.
 

antonz

Member
Do you think you can just make shit up? Nintendo publishes the breakdowns.

2DS has sold over seven million consoles to last December. It's actually outsold N3DS and N3DS LL/XL combined in Europe/Asia/Oceania. XL models are the most popular in the US but the regular N3DS was not released in the US for ages and is still only in limited release, and 2DS has still done well in the US. (~3 million) Really Japan is the only place it has been 'a small fraction of sales'

It's the clear entry level version of the platform and has been a large success during the Pokemon Sun/Moon launch.

2DS has sold roughly 7 million units. XL Devices have sold almost 30 million units. Standard 3DS models have sold roughly 28.7 million units. In the end the cheap option has been around 11% of all sales. So while it may attract a audience the sales speak for themselves. People prefer the basic or enhanced option over the cutdown cheap option. 60-65% of all sales are the higher priced models in recent quarters. It does seem like Europe enjoys the 2DS though as they seem to sell more than US and Japan combined.
 
I think some people are getting a little overly hung up on the "but then it's not a Switch" thing, missing the whole parts about the "dock sold separately" and "JoyCon compatible". You could very easily have an all-in-one device with no dock packed in while retaining support for everything else an optional upgrade.
 

Spoit

Member
I still think getting rid of the joycons is a much bigger hurdle they'd need to clear than the dock. We'll see what happens with Mario Kart (and smash, when it finally comes out), but I think that people are really sleeping on the ability to have local co op, anywhere, out of the box. That one use case in the extended Superbowl commercial, where they put it on the center console, and the kids were playing in the backseat of the car? That's gold.

Other than that, the main technical problem would be the battery. Sure cutting down the screen size and a die shrink will help, but as it is, the vast majority of the physical space inside the current switch is battery. And those other part's sizes would be fairly ineleastic, even with the die shrink, so cutting down the size of the device will mostly hit the battery. As it is, the battery life is not great, so cutting it down even further? I don't see that going too well.
 
Other than that, the main technical problem would be the battery. Sure cutting down the screen size and a die shrink will help, but as it is, the vast majority of the physical space inside the current switch is battery. And those other part's sizes would be fairly ineleastic, even with the die shrink, so cutting down the size of the device will mostly hit the battery. As it is, the battery life is not great, so cutting it down even further? I don't see that going too well.

Cutting the detachable JoyCon frees up a good chunk of internal space. You're cutting out the JoyCon batteries, the charging contacts and related hardware, and the extra casing/rail. So basically you shift the hardware over to one side a bit and expand the core battery to the other.
 

extralite

Member
Not in context of the conversation.

I actually covered all his points. I understand that you seem to think that you can make an arbitrary distinction between certain types of motion controls but attached/detached actually makes no difference for BotW or Splatoon 2. The tilt controls are the same both in handheld mode and in tabletop/TV mode. Also, Fatal Frame used the Wiimote for tilting as well and all the console Zeldas since TP used motion controls for aiming. TP and SS did it with a detached controller, WW, OoT and MM with attached controller and BotW includes both styles. The controls are the very same, it doesn't make a difference if they're in the console or in a seperate controller.

Also, you seem to think that accelerometers are purely for motion, and gyro purely for tilt. This is not true. Fatal Frame on Wii uses accelerometer for tilt, and so do Wii U, PSVR, all other VR HMDs. Gyro can measure CHANGE in rotation (movement around an axis), but it cannot measure the current absolute rotation (meaning all that gyros measure is relative to previous data). Accelerometer can measure current acceleration (movement along an axis), and thanks to gravity also the current downward tilt (because gravity is constantly accelerating downwards). You need accelerometers and gyros (and ideally also some positional tracking) used together for full motion data (tilting is motion).

Do you think the Sixaxis gyro tilt control is the same as the PlayStation Move, Wii Remote, or Joycon motion control?

Move is different because it also features outside/in and the Wiimote inside/out positional tracking but all the other ones are the same. Sixaxis is three accelerometers and three gyros, so is PSMove, the Wii Remote with M+ and joycons. You can also include smart devices, PSVR, Rift, Vive and Gear VR. They all use the same 3+3 sensors. Some also additionally use magnetometers for absolute directions.

To reiterate, gyro is not equal to tilt. Accelerometers get current tilt, gyros get change in tilt (never the absolute tilt).

You can use gyros for basic tilt or full on motion controls. They are separate uses for the same basic technology.

You wouldn't call the 3DS OoT or MM remakes motion controlled games in the same catagory as Skyward Sword just because they have gyro aiming.

Of course there are different categories or rather applications of motion controls. They still all qualify as such. If you want to refer to a certain type of motion control, you have to state so clearly. Because he was unprecise at first, Orioto had to move the goal post. Even after he did, the outlook for him to be proven wrong is still there.

Is selling $60 games a non-issue for a Switch Mini?

I get that people want to have a portable only Switch that might not be able to dock. But now they have to pay $60 for games when with 3DS it used to be $40.

That's another reason why I think they should go with a different name, and have seperate lines of games. Both devices should play most of their sibling's software lineup as well (unless the hardware isn't suited to it, like no AR on old Switch), but there should be games that launch and are advertised for the new hardware, with according pricing. For each line of games, you could put "also compatible with Switch/Focus" notes on the packages.
 
Obviously, they'll make a full-size Switch with smaller bezels and a larger screen as well.

If the Switch size increases, the joy cons aren't going to fit. And they are not, ever, going to make a whole new type of Joy Con only compatible with a Switch revision. They want people to be buying and collecting loads of different coloured Joy Con, they're not going to split that market with types of Joy Con that only work on certain consoles.

I can see a minor refresh which gets rid of the bazel, when manufacturing actually allows this to happen at an affordable price. Remember, the bazel isn't there for aesthetic reasons. But also, a larger screen would be more strain on the battery, and I wouldn't expect battery technology to improve much (if at all) during the Switch's lifetime.
 

Branduil

Member
If the Switch size increases, the joy cons aren't going to fit. And they are not, ever, going to make a whole new type of Joy Con only compatible with a Switch revision. They want people to be buying and collecting loads of different coloured Joy Con, they're not going to split that market with types of Joy Con that only work on certain consoles.

I can see a minor refresh which gets rid of the bazel, when manufacturing actually allows this to happen at an affordable price. Remember, the bazel isn't there for aesthetic reasons. But also, a larger screen would be more strain on the battery, and I wouldn't expect battery technology to improve much (if at all) during the Switch's lifetime.

Battery technology improvements, while obviously desirable, aren't necessary for a Switch revision to improve in that regard. A die shrink will do that on its own.
 

bobawesome

Member
of course there will be a mini version of the Switch for handheld players that don't care about TV mode. I'm waiting for such revision before jumping in. Hopefully Nintendo will release it sooner than later (I think holidays 2018 date is likely).

A Switch revision without ugly black bezel would be nice too (mockup found on google)
isb1mp9.jpg

The mockup in the OP looks a million times better.
 
The new 3DSXL was released 1 year after the 2DS.
It's a question for today. Having very different ability/price tiers of one family of products that share the same software is precedented and ongoing.
Is selling $60 games a non-issue for a Switch Mini?

I get that people want to have a portable only Switch that might not be able to dock. But now they have to pay $60 for games when with 3DS it used to be $40.
There are $60 physical games for Switch. And $40. And $20.
Hilarion said:
How would you play 1 2 Switch on a Switch without Joycons?
Buy separate Joy-Cons if you really want to. This isn't much more of a problem than the fact that you need to buy extra controllers to play 4-player Mario Kart.
 
If they reduce the bezel the screen size can increase and the device size can remain the same. A more efficient Tegra processor will help with the battery life.

Yeah, that would be good but also, feels a bit meh? It's hardly a 3DS to 3DS XL leap in screen size, I'm not sure it would be worth their while.
 
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