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Square-Enix Currently Has No Plans for Mana and SaGa Series [Updated]
- Thread starter Pooya
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AlphaDragoon
Member
Aeana said:
I can't even fucking fathom how The 3rd Bomba scored higher than The Last Remnant, especially if we count the amazing PC version.
And how in God's name did FFXII get a 49? It's one of the best FF games ever made.
AlphaDragoon
Member
ULTROS! said:
Ah, makes sense then. I play that game every now and again but yeah, it really does suck.
CecilMcW00t said:
It is very debatable when the "fall" started.
Some say it started when they made Spirits Within, which cost Square so much that Hironobu Sakaguchi resigned.
Some blame it on Enix.
Some blame Nomura.
Some even blame FFX-2.
In the end, it's because of style over substance.
People often overlook that Enix was also suffering at the time, too, due to delays on Dq7. Arguably, both companies were falling and the merger was an attempt to save them both.
Wada took control because he is, at heart, a numbers man. Wada started off as CFO of Square. He's not a artistic visionary or director. His "vision" is to keep S-E relevant in the fast-paced electronic world. So that's why he pushes the games to LOOK so good, because you want to impress the ADD-riddled audiences and advertisers and shareholder meetings. Say what you will about the current games, they ALL are very pretty and eyecatching. The games have to WOW! people very, very fast. I doubt Wada even plays [edit: his own company's] games, he clearly has a flashing lights as a distraction approach to sales.
So. What does this mean? It means until Wada steps down, or invests more into things like engines, gamers will be stuck with this style over substance approach. Wada probably doesn't realize how important the music of S-E has always been, which is a damn shame--Uematsu is likely the reason FF survived the NES-SNES years.
Remember, it's always about money in the end.
. Say what you want about X-2 but the battle system was ridiculously awesome. I have no confidence SE can even make that happen in XIII-2.brotkasten
Member
Oh, I totally forgot that DQ10 is still in development. Does is have a release date? And why the hell does it take so long to release a Wii RPG?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Add Pirate Slime and Fortune Street for me, but I'm essentially in the same boat.Error said:
I really wish we'd have gotten the DS SaGa2-3 remakes. They could've even called them FFL2-3 or whatever, I don't care I just wanted them.
GameArts developed a Grandia MMORPG of very questionable quality over the last years.dramatis said:
Outside of that, yep, the series seems to be dead. It's the only GameArts IP that is still worth a penny, but after so many years without a sequel that train might have left the station too. I won't give up hoping yet, though. Game Arts has to develop something.
AlphaDragoon
Member
Bossun said:
Yeah...keep telling yourself Nomura's to blame for SE's situation.
AlphaDragoon
Member
jaxword said:
Honestly, I don't even like FF6 all that much. I'm more of an FF4 guy myself. But yeah, the point stands.
It's not entirely his fault, but he plays a huge part in it.
The guy was good, nowadays he can't seem to be able to make a guy character without making him looks like a girl.
Secondly, on most recent FF he was not only the character designer, he also took an important part in the gameplay and story development, and fact is that the FF franchise has been on the downward spiral since then.
The guy was good, nowadays he can't seem to be able to make a guy character without making him looks like a girl.
Secondly, on most recent FF he was not only the character designer, he also took an important part in the gameplay and story development, and fact is that the FF franchise has been on the downward spiral since then.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They did that Lunar PSP remake, Thexder on PSN and some WiiWare shadow puzzler that was pretty great, but all those got kind of overlooked. Outside that it looks like mostly mobile games from them recently (Silpheed for Android, ugh).wrowa said:
Hopefully they made enough off Smash Brawl to coast until they can line up Grandia 4. Doesn't someone else own them now though or something? I always kind of hoped we'd see a Grandia 1 handheld port or console remake from them at some point, since it's their last RPG I really loved throughout. Lunar 1's gotten like 3 complete remakes, it's way past time for Grandia's turn.
Rahxephon91
Banned
So girly.Bossun said:
Um no.Bossun said:
AlphaDragoon
Member
Bossun said:
I disagree with the "guy characters look like girls" part. They look anime-esque to be sure, but I never look at Nomura's characters and wonder if it's a guy or a girl. In my opinion, it's a hell of a lot better than the shaved head, samey Sam Worthington-esque dudebro characters we've gotten recently (They made fucking Robin a bro in Arkham City? Really?).
Bossun said:
This is incorrect.
He did not write the stories of FF10, x-2, 11, 12, or 13. He had input in the same way that a comic book artist must work with the writer to create the end product. But he didn't control the stories or plots--most of those had TWO writers, in fact.
There are other works he did write, but not the main FF series.
He particularly did NOT have any input on FF12. So that's just flat out wrong to say so.
Now, as for gameplay, there's several games he DID have a hand. Creative Producer is the title they gave him there. Those games are:
The World Ends with You
Crisis Core
Dissidia
3rd Birthday
FF8 (only the battles)
For the most part, I think those played ok. I didn't really like Dissidia too much, though. Unless you hated all of those, you're wrong about his influence on the gameplay being negative.
Now, as a writer/director? Nomura is terrible. He wrote/directed Kingdom Hearts, which I think is horrible in many ways. Advent Children was also all Nomura, which was another terribly-written mess.
However, he helped write FF7 in the first place--which demonstrates that he has cool ideas, but needs a good writer to make them flow.
So, your criticism of Nomura is misdirected. He is a bad writer and director, but he didn't ruin Final Fantasy like you want to believe.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
Thanks for SaGa 2 and SaGa 3 in English, by the way. *cry*
He designed the two lead characters. I beleive that was all he did on that title.jaxword said:
Wada's actually a known gamer. His problem is definitely not pushing for "better-looking" games; the executive producer of FF13 states that he thinks the Final Fantasy brand is irrevocably tied to "awesome graphics", so this is not a problem on part of the CEO but on the development side. Wada's problem is trying to figure out what can appeal to the Western market, and that is why he made mistakes in approving games like Gun Loco and Mindjack. His problem is his NOT keeping a close enough eye on FF13 and FF14, and merely letting developers run their own show until it was too late.jaxword said:
It's very easy to blame the business side, which sets the overarching goals of the company and determines the amount of backing they will give to a project, but Square's biggest problems are the drought of inspiration from project leads and the inability of their executive producers and game directors to balance their work with time and budget.
I don't doubt Wada will be out if next year sucks as much as this year, but replacing him doesn't solve that much when most of the problems arise from the development leads and teams themselves.
Well, we don't have the same definition of what manly means.
And yes he takes part in gameplay and story development.
He is currently director on FF13, but that's official now. On previous FF he had a word to say because he is well known and he had powers. The same way Hideo Kojima could do anything he wanted before being vice-president, even if that's wasn't what Konami wanted.
And yes he takes part in gameplay and story development.
He is currently director on FF13, but that's official now. On previous FF he had a word to say because he is well known and he had powers. The same way Hideo Kojima could do anything he wanted before being vice-president, even if that's wasn't what Konami wanted.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I'm not sure how they don't look like men, which was your point.Bossun said:
No he doesn't.
? No not for 13. Versus 13 is his game.
Wait what? He was not involved at all in XII. He didn't write the stories for any of the other FF games as well. Maybe he has some say in the characters and their personalities, but he's not behind the stories of these games. Nor did he design the gameplay...
What? kojima can't even make a game outside of MGS. I have no idea what you are talking about.
S-E needs new IPs, not trudging out old IPs that will bomb because most people do not care about them. When you consider all the new games they pumped out in the PS1 days, not just RPGS, but stuff from Einhander to Bushido Blade. They are getting variety from the western side, its Japan that needs a jumpstart.
If I am S-E and I'm looking at probably 2 more years of the same hardware, then I'm forming a new team to make another A list RPG, one thats different from the neo sci-fi teen feel of FF and DQ's age old traditions. While Xenogears, CC and VS may not have been FF type hits, they were successful and they kept the fanbase energized. I think S-E needs a new hit. If they can get a new hit, I think that might start things back in the right direction.
If I am S-E and I'm looking at probably 2 more years of the same hardware, then I'm forming a new team to make another A list RPG, one thats different from the neo sci-fi teen feel of FF and DQ's age old traditions. While Xenogears, CC and VS may not have been FF type hits, they were successful and they kept the fanbase energized. I think S-E needs a new hit. If they can get a new hit, I think that might start things back in the right direction.
dramatis said:
See, I've heard that too about Wada, that he liked gaming, but I just can't possibly believe he spends that much time playtesting games like FF13 or SaGa 2 DS or FF3Ds or SoM on Ipad.
I use those examples as games I liked, but had some really poor engine flaws at times.
Not that I blame the man, he's a CEO, not a playtester.
In any case, you suggest the problem here is that he gives developers too much reign. That definitely could be a factor in why the games take so long to make.
I think he may be spreading himself too thin. Sakaguchi was hands-on in the early years, but I doubt Wada has the time or energy to get involved with every IP and experience the music, gameplay, story, theme, etc. Hence why I say style over substance. If you're the producers and have a 10 minute meeting with the CEO to justify your budget, you're gonna bring your flashiest lights and prettiest girls.
Yeah versus my bad
Believing Nomura only did the character design, is very naive, especially in Japan where when someone is well-known he has almost any rights.
And of course he didn't do ALL the FF, the guy's just Human.
Nonetheless FF8, FF10 and FF13 are some of the most controversial FF in the franchise (including FF12), and you just have to read any forum to actually see it.
FF 9 which didn't involved Nomura, is now becoming one of the best FF according to players (wich came at a surprise since a few years ago, it often wasn't stated as one of the best one)
By the way Kojima did a lot of things apart from MGS. But I was just trying to prove my point. He did well on some games, gain fame, afterwards Konami had almost no hold on Kojima.
Finally don't get me wrong. I said I was disappointed in SE, but I still play their games (I'm keeping a close watch on FF13-2) and I still greatly enjoy playing old Final Fantasy.
Believing Nomura only did the character design, is very naive, especially in Japan where when someone is well-known he has almost any rights.
And of course he didn't do ALL the FF, the guy's just Human.
Nonetheless FF8, FF10 and FF13 are some of the most controversial FF in the franchise (including FF12), and you just have to read any forum to actually see it.
FF 9 which didn't involved Nomura, is now becoming one of the best FF according to players (wich came at a surprise since a few years ago, it often wasn't stated as one of the best one)
By the way Kojima did a lot of things apart from MGS. But I was just trying to prove my point. He did well on some games, gain fame, afterwards Konami had almost no hold on Kojima.
Finally don't get me wrong. I said I was disappointed in SE, but I still play their games (I'm keeping a close watch on FF13-2) and I still greatly enjoy playing old Final Fantasy.
You don't even know what you are talking about.
Nomura hate. For your concern, there is some works where I find he did a good job.
I liked Kingdom hearts, he did a good job, his characters do not clash with the disney world for example and he stayed apart from all the fashion stuff.
But saying he has nothing to do in it is being a blind fan.
All that I am saying is that SE shouldn't put him on so many games and should have more characters design. It would be refreshing.
But I know SE is also at faults. I don't condoned their actual policy and the fact that they are so reticent to create a new IP. (They did try though, shame it was not a huge success)
Nomura hate. For your concern, there is some works where I find he did a good job.
I liked Kingdom hearts, he did a good job, his characters do not clash with the disney world for example and he stayed apart from all the fashion stuff.
But saying he has nothing to do in it is being a blind fan.
All that I am saying is that SE shouldn't put him on so many games and should have more characters design. It would be refreshing.
But I know SE is also at faults. I don't condoned their actual policy and the fact that they are so reticent to create a new IP. (They did try though, shame it was not a huge success)
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Not really. DQVII's long delays hurt, but Enix more than bounced back after the game finally released. They mainly merged with Square to strengthen the company in the wake of rising PS2 R&D costs, plus they wanted a better western publishing infrastructure. Unlike Square though, they were never near verging on collapse.jaxword said:
Rahxephon91
Banned
Yeah I guess it's naive to look at the actual credits. I don't doubt he throws some ideas, but the way you make it sound it's like he has a big role in the story and battle systems of these games. He doesn't, so he's not responsible for how those parts turn out.Bossun said:
But your point dose'nt make any sense. Kojima can't do everything he want's and Konami has a hold on him. It's a pretty well known thing that Kojima has wanted to move on from MGS, obviously it hasn't happened.
lunchwithyuzo said:
Square wasn't verging on total collapse either, though; their massive Spirits Within loss actually DELAYED the merger. When they released FFX, it sold incredibly well, so, if anything, it was likely that success that prompted Enix to agree. I think both companies figured it would strengthen each other.
Rahxephon91 said:
Bossun is just making up stuff now; his replies are almost incoherent and don't make a lot of sense. Maybe he doesn't know how to use the quote button, or something?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I said "near". Without Sony's cash infusion (in the form of non-voting stock investment), Square would've been in deep shit after Spirits Within.jaxword said:
Enix was never really struggling at any point pre-merger though.