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[LordCBH]

Then buy and support Armed Fantasia.

Hol up. What is this?! Ima have to look this up cause I haven’t heard of it before.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

?

SIE could not be in a better spot with Xbox out of the way.

Nintendo may take some share with switch 2 for 3P, but that doesn’t mean much when Sony has the entire console market on lock.

There’s still an audience for higher end console gaming and switch 2 ain’t that.

It's fascinating to see him put forward such an asinine analysis completely devoid of reality.

The PS6 will probably be the only high end console on the market, with Microsoft shifting to PC. We're going to see that fanbase decide what is more important to them console gaming or the xbox live ecosystem, because Microsoft's games are going to be on both.

 

[Punished Miku]

Like a long term consumer base on xbox

I dont disagree lol. Ive been pretty transparent about what I expect for Xbox.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Please don't backtrack to the PS3/Wii era where you have seventeen different titles, all Canon Main entries and shit, spread out on 47 different platforms. Multiplat the same good title - don't make dedicated console gamers purchase the Nintendo 3DS XXL Mii-U edition handheld to get all of the lore. You fuckers.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I dont disagree lol. Ive been pretty transparent about what I expect for Xbox.

Damn. I thought you disagreed about that. You really did get gaslit

 

[Fabieter]

The details i gave you were the specific type of things that may "cost more", either in talent or time. Octopath 2 has some great contrasts of light and shadow characterizing its visual style that seem to blend both pixel art elements and 3D lighting together - which you may prefer - but that shouldn't shot up their budget to the point they need dozens of times more money and people than these other games.

Rain World for example (the first pic). It was made by only 4 devs with a custom engine built from the ground up (rather than using Unreal like square's 2DHD games), it has physics based animations and even a simulated ecosystem. All while having beutifully drawn pixel art and great sound design. SE is clearly doing something wrong here.

Smaller games probably tend to reuse assets in a smart way. Games like octopath 2 have so many unique assets.

 

[cireza]

Time to bring out their best game in years... I am talking of Star Ocean 2R of course. Bought in on Switch but will happily double-dip on Xbox.

 

[Metnut]

The price to pay for FF7 Rebirth’s disappointing sales isn’t that future games are going day 1 to PC. That’s a no brainer and only Sony contracts are the issue there.

It’s that I think they are going to step down from AAA and become AA.5A and have future FF and other games release day 1 for Switch 2. They don’t really need to chase the high end graphics, the benefits don’t justify the expense. They can release stuff like Rebirth and with lower development costs and Switch 2 day 1 release, I bet they’ll do a lot better commercially.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Yeah but their AA games may have bombed worse, we don’t know.

And secondly, FF16 and 7R haven’t released on other platforms yet, and when they do it will give a further boost to sales

Square took a very beneficial deal with Sony that guaranteed a baseline level of success and mitigated a lot of risk. It also allowed them to still monetize the games on other platforms later

The truth is that Sony has no need to make similar deals in the future with Xbox going third party, hence why they are suddenly “changing strategies” because Sony isn’t offering them

I dunno, man. This is believable to some extent, but then you have Square-Enix directly referencing Xbox as one of their target platforms in their multiplat strategy. I don't feel they would have done that if they felt Xbox hardware was going away completely. Could Xbox as a traditional console (with that business model) be going away? Oh 1000% percent that Xbox is dead. But if they take a more PC-like approach (as in making Xbox more open like a PC, not necessarily bringing the full Xbox experience to PC like I was originally thinking), that is still technically an Xbox.

And as well, given some of SIE's own gaffes/decisions of the past year or two, I don't think this shift in Square-Enix's strategy is as simple as SIE going "we don't want your timed exclusives anymore". There are probably other factors at play, at least some of those with Square-Enix being the driving force. They are their own independent corporate entity, after all.

Plus, it assumes SIE are in control of the negotiations. After the Helldivers 2 fiasco, I think there's room to suggest it was at least a 50/50 decision between them and SE, but more likely SE deciding to withdraw future PlayStation exclusivity considering SIE came out early on stressing how important Final Fantasy is to the platform (suggesting exclusivity was a sign of that importance).

So yea it's possible to some extent that SIE have changed their mind, but it's at least equally possible that Square-Enix decided PlayStation was "not enough" for them to hit their growth targets.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Final Fantasy has been on Xbox since Microsoft gave them a cheque for FF13.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It’s that I think they are going to step down from AAA and become AA.5A and have figure FF and other games release day 1 for Switch 2. They don’t really need to chase the high end graphics

They don’t chase that already. Their games are likely scalable on switch 2, it certainly will look massively downgraded just like steam deck is though. Consumers that like handheld will just accept the tradeoff

 

[ArtHands]

Not releasing FF XVI on PC day 1 was such a huge mistake with the FF XIV fanbase willing to support the game even if it was dogshit

It seems FF XVI and FF7 Rebirth exclusive to PS5 are mistakes.

 

[Punished Miku]

Damn. I thought you disagreed about that. You really did get gaslit

I theyre probably doing an open store handheld and maybe a similar console. Said this for months. I dont even know what youre talking about at this point. Go ahead and get the last word in. Pointless to keep replying to your trolling. I actually wanted to discuss stuff relevant to the thread.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I theyre probably doing an open store handheld and maybe a similar console. Said this for months. I dont even know what youre talking about at this point. Go ahead and get the last word in. Pointless to keep replying to your trolling. I actually wanted to discuss stuff relevant to the thread.

Replying to get the last word in, since you asked nicely.

 

[Ozriel]

Explain countless games that come to
PC later and do well

Most games aren’t GTA V or RDR 2.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I theyre probably doing an open store handheld and maybe a similar console. Said this for months. I dont even know what youre talking about at this point. Go ahead and get the last word in. Pointless to keep replying to your trolling. I actually wanted to discuss stuff relevant to the thread.

I love how people mention open store devices, without realizing what that entails for hardware prices...

If Xbox released a PC based device with an xbox store and they were charging 30 percent on their games on their storefront and the device played PC games through steam/epic... I'd just go with steam/epic since it has a large audience and a cheaper royalty.

At best Microsoft will have to lower their royalties to maintain software support, but more importantly the hardware prices are going to be significantly higher since they won't be able to sell them at a loss or at volume.

They'll probably release 4-8 devices at different price points/specs, including a handheld, similar to their surface line.

 

[ProtoByte]

Crazy they didn’t continue with this after FF15 was their best selling, most hyped title in recent years.

And it sold a supermajority of its units on one platform.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Most games aren’t GTA V or RDR 2.

Sony has plenty of data on day 1 game sales.

Look at Dragon's Dogma 2 for example. The trade off for Day 1 probably isn't worth it.

 

[ProtoByte]

Hope everyone on here now realizes how hard they got gaslit by Sony fanboys anytime it was pointed out that sales were even slightly disappointing.

I think that was more square fanboys puffing themselves in denial. This has nothing to do with exclusivity. Anybody who is dumb enough to argue that putting those games on PC and Xbox would suddenly double sales or even significantly change the picture is lying to themselves.

Playstation exclusives have sold 15+ million units routinely.

It has everything to do with the fact that the games just don't meet that mass appeal bar.

 

[tmlDan]

Nice, so no more switch exclusives either? this is great.

Switch also gets a ton of exclusives or timed exclusives from square and im not a fan of that crap hardware lol

Also, wtf is going on with some fanboys:

 

[adamsapple]

Nice, so no more switch exclusives either? this is great.

Switch also gets a ton of exclusives or timed exclusives from square and im not a fan of that crap hardware lol

Also, wtf is going on with some fanboys:

I think we found ChorizoPicozo 's X account.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Smaller games probably tend to reuse assets in a smart way. Games like octopath 2 have so many unique assets.

No need. You require, what, one person for a day to make a new tree prop? Prop reutilization was more an issue of memory and storage space from the early days rather than dev time.

The bigger costs are mainly due to team-size. You have huge teams working on specific departments in order to develop the game faster. The thing OT2 has over many indie games is lenght, and the fact it took around 4-5 years to make compared to 6 or even 8 from indie titles that are shorter.

Problem is, the larger the team, the less efficient the amount of work done per person is. A team of 5-10 can work together much more easily than a team of 50-100, not to mention that at that scale there'll be a lot of bureocratic and logistic issues arising that may diminish efficiency and increase costs even further.

You have many developers with hyper focus specialities that'll need a director to coordinate their work with the rest, perhaps even discarding a lot of what they produce. Also, it isn't uncommon to have these devs working on multiple games at once, dispersing their focus and reducing their time for other games that many don't even hear of or might not ever see the light of day.

What SE needs is reorganize their workflow.

 

[Ozriel]

And it sold a supermajority of its units on one platform.

the sensible approach would be to take steps to grow the audience on the other platforms. And that’s what Square are now finally trying to do.

It’s been 7 years between the last two mainline entries. I don’t see shorter dev times happening anytime soon, so I’d be more inclined to believe it will release much later than 2029. We’ll be lucky to get the final instalment to FF7 by 2029.

I believe they’ve already said the next installment in the FF 7 series is already well underway. I’d be surprised if it isn’t out by 2026/2027.
FF17 will be built in parallel, most likely.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

dunno, man. This is believable to some extent, but then you have Square-Enix directly referencing Xbox as one of their target platforms in their multiplat strategy.

It’s just lip service, if the ports are cheap they will port to Xbox but it’s not like this is a major driver for their plan going forward. Xbox may even have to pay to get their games on the platform, this is coming off the heels of FF Online coming to xbox

And as well, given some of SIE's own gaffes/decisions of the past year or two, I don't think this shift in Square-Enix's strategy is as simple as SIE going "we don't want your timed exclusives anymore". There are probably other factors at play, at least some of those with Square-Enix being the driving force. They are their own independent corporate entity, after all.

I think it is that simple.

Sony wanted to lock down big exclusives early on to counter what Xbox was doing buying up Bethesda.

That’s no longer a risk since Xbox is third party and X/S sales are in the tank.

Sony had to pay significantly for those exclusives and having a backstop of that magnitude while you can still monetize to other platforms in the future is free money to Square. No reason they wouldn’t take it again

 

[LordCBH]

Nice, so no more switch exclusives either? this is great.

Switch also gets a ton of exclusives or timed exclusives from square and im not a fan of that crap hardware lol

Also, wtf is going on with some fanboys:

Sad that PS5 gamers are being told to sit at the back of the bus
(Am I doing it right?)

 

[ProtoByte]

the sensible approach would be to take steps to grow the audience on the other platforms. And that’s what Square are now finally trying to do.

It's not going to work, and it hasn't in the recent past.

Certainly not with fucking Xbox, you kidding me? We're getting to the point that making certain games for that platform will actually lose you money.

 

[LordCBH]

It’s just lip service, if the ports are cheap they will port to Xbox but it’s not like this is a major driver for their plan going forward. Xbox may even have to pay to get their games on the platform, this is coming off the heels of FF Online coming to xbox

Their priority is absolutely Switch 2 and PC, but primarily Switch 2 I think.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sad that PS5 gamers are being told to sit at the back of the bus
(Am I doing it right?)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Their priority is absolutely Switch 2 and PC, but primarily Switch 2 I think.

I agree. They are just mentioning Xbox so they don’t feel excluded and Square can say they are fully multiplatform

Xbox isn’t the major driver, Switch 2 and PC are

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Who told you ports aren't expensive to make? Site the sources please. I've been waiting on this information when individuals pull this talking point out.

Apparently to all the people who cheerlead SIE's ports to PC, porting is as cheap at $15 million (even though a lot of the port's development beings while still working on the console version, so costs for the port are baked into total development costs not reflected in the numbers listed under the porting time Nixxes or whoever spends on a PC version).

We know it's likely more expensive than that, by a good measure. Especially when it's not even so much a port as it is a platform version with simultaneous development (more likely these days than "ports" like in the old Genesis/SNES or PS1/N64/Saturn days). The costs for those versions get baked into the total budget.

I agree. They are just mentioning Xbox so they don’t feel excluded and Square can say they are fully multiplatform

Xbox isn’t the major driver, Switch 2 and PC are

Does it really matter if Xbox is still getting the game, at the end of the day?

Whether it sells 1 million copies or 1 copy on Xbox, the game still technically exists there on that platform. Whatever plans MS have going forward for hardware, any game present on the platform can be used as leverage in those plans. Given that they seemingly aren't completely stepping out of the hardware game just yet, it makes SIE opening up PlayStation as a platform for MS to publish more of their games on look at least a bit sus.

After all, any software MS sells on PlayStation is a 70% cut going back to Microsoft. In a way it could be viewed as SIE throwing Xbox a lifeline. Which could be a problem (albeit with small chance of happening) in the future because this isn't like SEGA where they're a way smaller company so when they were done with console, you knew they were done with being a platform holder. As long as Xbox still exists within Microsoft there's always a non-zero chance they could just be using a multiplat strategy to "bide their time" until suddenly, hey look we're making consoles again!

I really can't put any type of deceit past Microsoft.

 

[LordCBH]

I agree. They are just mentioning Xbox so they don’t feel excluded and Square can say they are fully multiplatform

Xbox isn’t the major driver, Switch 2 and PC are

As long as the ports don’t break the bank, I think they’ll go. Wouldn’t shock me to see them being open for some Gamepass cash from Philly-boy if it’s offered too.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I think that was more square fanboys puffing themselves in denial. This has nothing to do with exclusivity. Anybody who is dumb enough to argue that putting those games on PC and Xbox would suddenly double sales or even significantly change the picture is lying to themselves.

Playstation exclusives have sold 15+ million units routinely.

It has everything to do with the fact that the games just don't meet that mass appeal bar.

Final Fantasy was the king of a niche genre. That genre is still niche to this day. If you want 20+ million sales, you don’t make a JRPG.

 

[ULTROS!]

I dunno why the Switch 2 is already being declared like a winner or something. The thing hasn’t been announced yet and we don’t know its fate. I remember back when the “Wii 2” will fly off the charts before it was announced lol. good thing the Switch picked up the slack.

Let’s see, hoping for the best tho and I hope they put damn achievements in the “Switch 2”.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

And it sold a supermajority of its units on one platform.

They have maxed out PS platform.

All their growth will come from non PS platforms.

Some 20% of sales came from PC/Xbox. If I were SE thats where I would focus to get more people into their games.

 

[LordCBH]

Let’s see, hoping for the best tho and I hope they put damn achievements in the “Switch 2”.

The annoying thing is they had a perfect thing they could have expanded on from the Wii U and that was the Miiverse Stamps. But noooo they just chucked the whole thing into the trash.

 

[ManaByte]

Nice, so no more switch exclusives either? this is great.

Switch also gets a ton of exclusives or timed exclusives from square and im not a fan of that crap hardware lol

Also, wtf is going on with some fanboys:

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Fabieter]

No need. You require, what, one person for a day to make a new tree prop? Prop reutilization was more an issue of memory and storage space from the early days rather than dev time.

The bigger costs are mainly due to team-size. You have huge teams working on specific departments in order to develop the game faster. The thing OT2 has over many indie games is lenght, and the fact it took around 4-5 years to make compared to 6 or even 8 from indie titles that are shorter.

Problem is, the larger the team, the less efficient the amount of work done per person is. A team of 5-10 can work together much more easily than a team of 50-100, not to mention that at that scale there'll be a lot of bureocratic and logistic issues arising that may diminish efficiency and increase costs even further.

You have many developers with hyper focus specialities that'll need a director to coordinate their work with the rest, perhaps even discarding a lot of what they produce. Also, it isn't uncommon to have these devs working on multiple games at once, dispersing their focus and reducing their time for other games that many don't even hear of or might not ever see the light of day.

What SE needs is reorganize their workflow.

Agreeing on the last part. Alot of the times I got burned by those indies because they feel to much budget constraint to me. Even one of my favourite indie rpgs with chained echos.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

As long as Xbox still exists within Microsoft there's always a non-zero chance they could just be using a multiplat strategy to "bide their time" until suddenly, hey look we're making consoles again!

This isn’t realistic.

Xbox is in the gutter and even if it wasn’t PlayStation is far too big to ignore. Microsoft isn’t going to let CoD or Elder Scrolls be sent to die on Xbox

It’s fantasy to think MS is just doing this as a short term play, a change this significant is a long term recognition that they are not very relevant in hardware anymore and their future plans to be more pc like in spec and cost only cements the fact that it’s a side project to them now

 

[Chittagong]

Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase SquareEnix games for any of the systems,. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel the Multiplatform strategy for Nintendo, Xbox and PCs or you can kiss your business goodbye.

 

[Topher]

Nice, so no more switch exclusives either? this is great.

Switch also gets a ton of exclusives or timed exclusives from square and im not a fan of that crap hardware lol

Also, wtf is going on with some fanboys:

It's time to march. Muh rightz!

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I dunno why the Switch 2 is already being declared like a winner or something. The thing hasn’t been announced yet and we don’t know its fate. I remember back when the “Wii 2” will fly off the charts before it was announced lol. good thing the Switch picked up the slack.

Let’s see, hoping for the best tho and I hope they put damn achievements in the “Switch 2”.

Literally all Nintendo has to do is make it a more powerful Switch with some modern features, slight innovation in some area of the controller and make sure their 1P is snapping along swimmingly, and they're golden. That it'll be capable enough to justify more 3P games is just a bonus, but the one thing that will make it contest better against PlayStation.

PS5's momentum in markets like Japan has basically dried up, and we know they're now tracking a bit behind PS4 launch-aligned in markets like the UK. We'll know if that's in more global markets or not once the fiscal results come in. Totoki's eagerness to cut back SIE spending and pursue profits aren't bad in and of themselves, but it seems their idea of accomplishing that is by sticking to or getting more aggressive with their PC porting strategy. Not a great plan.

I'm definitely not saying Switch 2 is going to steamroll PS5 going forward; that's stupid. But I think unless there are signs from SIE that they've really got things back in order in terms of making sure their console has real exclusives again, and they've got a variety of internal AAA & AA 1P, and co-dev with 3P on some exclusives too...I don't see the PS5 having a runaway in the market even if Xbox as a console is winding down, and a lot of that is going to be due to Switch 2.

I'm for it tho; I don't mind real competition. Not the acquisition crap Microsoft was trying to sell to people as being the same (it isn't). And if Xbox can't provide that competition for PlayStation, I guess Nintendo and Valve will.

This isn’t realistic.

Xbox is in the gutter and even if it wasn’t PlayStation is far too big to ignore. Microsoft isn’t going to let CoD or Elder Scrolls be sent to die on Xbox

It’s fantasy to think MS is just doing this as a short term play, a change this significant is a long term recognition that they are not very relevant in hardware anymore and their future plans to be more pc like in spec and cost only cements the fact that it’s a side project to them now

All I'm saying is, you can't completely say they won't change their mind. Even if it's a 1% chance, that chance still exists and it's hopium I could see some Xbox diehards trying to cling to even as they see every single MS game get ports to PlayStation and other platforms. MS could just be waiting for the opportunity to present itself, so should it present itself.

Though by then, the console market could look radically different than what it does today. Maybe they become more specialty devices for a type of enthusiast. If it's a sizable enough segment where money could be made on the hardware, companies like MS could try capitalizing. Heck, that is kind of what seems like they are going to do "next-gen" anyway opening up Xbox to be more PC-like (I'm guessing not just with alternative storefronts like Steam, GOG etc. present, but also modular upgrades and different device form factor types).

We also don't know if SIE are going to eventually push for shorter 6-month - 1 year or even Day 1 on PC for non-GAAS titles, and when. Because I think that will impact trajectory of future PlayStation console sales. Day 1 PC won't be as bad if it's stuff exclusive to their own launcher, but it's more likely they would prioritize Steam with that type of push, which would potentially be very detrimental to long-term PlayStation install base growth, and even revenue & profit outlooks I feel.

 

[ProtoByte]

They have maxed out PS platform.

All their growth will come from non PS platforms.

Some 20% of sales came from PC/Xbox. If I were SE thats where I would focus to get more people into their games.

Good luck with that. As long as their portfolio continues to be of the nature that it is, it will never happen.

 

[TGO]

Outside of the FFVII Remake & XVI
aren't they already Multiplatform

Then again Switch has a lot of exclusives...

 

[LordCBH]

Outside of the FFVII Remake & XVI
aren't they already Multiplatform

Not entirely. Square has been doing a surprising amount of switch only console titles the past like 4 years too.

 

[Fabieter]

Not entirely. Square has been doing a surprising amount of switch only console titles the past like 4 years too.

Actually with the switch 2 getting stronger support than ever with better graphics and most aaa and aa games available I could see myself getting my console fix on the switch and the rest doing on my pc. I still like consoles but switch 2/pc seems like the better combo going forward.

 

[tmlDan]

Actually with the switch 2 getting stronger support than ever with better graphics and most aaa and aa games available I could see myself getting my console fix on the switch and the rest doing on my pc. I still like consoles but switch 2/pc seems like the better combo going forward.

Switch 2 wont be nearly as powerful as a PS5 even, and the PS6 is, crazily, only 3-4 years away. I'd still go with PC, PS5, Switch 2 as peak gaming.

 

[Shadowstar39]

It is clear as day that 3rd party going exclusive to one platform is stupid af strategy, which will only hurt your company, devs and games, rather than help. The thing is though, that outside of FF.... Square has absolutely nothing of the same magnitude and it's a huge problem they need to work on fixing.

why do they need major hits all the time. It wasn't the case in the snes/ps1/ps2 eras. They just made good games, many smaller budget titles. Here is what they made during the ps1 that was not final fantasy 7,8 and 9:

- Vagrant Story
- Parasite Eve 1 and 2
- Chronocross
- ChronoTrigger port
- Front Mission 3
- Chocobo Racing
- Legend of Mana
- Bushido Blade 1 and 2
- Brave Fencer musashi
- FFV&6 anthology
- FF Origins (ff1-2)
- Chocobo dungeon
- Threads of fate
- Einhander
- FF tactics
- Tobal #1
- EhrGiez
- Xenogears

Thats a ton of games. None of these were at the production levels of Final Fantasy 7, 8 or 9. What they did is make good games that were not as graphically intensive but had great rpg mechanics. They could do this again.
The problem is they need to adjust their expectations.

The kids and teens today don't play other games, outside of (fortnite, roblox, minecraft and valorant ) and games aren't being targeted to older millennials and gen x, people who love single player epic rpgs. So they need to target these groups with games, and bring down production costs/expectations.

 

[LordCBH]

Switch 2 wont be nearly as powerful as a PS5 even, and the PS6 is, crazily, only 3-4 years away. I'd still go with PC, PS5, Switch 2 as peak gaming.

That is my plan.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I think we found ChorizoPicozo 's X account.

i don't understand what the tweet is actually saying or is trying to say.... but I guess is funny?