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[aranth]

I'm grateful for Star Citizen. Sold my LTI account last year for a tidy sum that paid for a new and shiny X-52 Pro, Elite Dangerous beta and the edtracker gizmo for headtracking.

I kickstarted and jumped with joy more than 2 years ago when I pledged on SC, but the whole thing with the ship sales every few weeks/months with commercial videos and limited numbers felt like taking advantage of a fanbase that had been waiting for years for a revival of the space sim genre, fans that were in their late teens/early twenties when they played Wing Commander and now adults with disposable income to burn. That and the remembrance of the Freelancer fiasco many years ago when Chris Roberts pulled a great Molyneaux impression, overpromising and undelivering a game that ended up being a shell of what was supposed to be soured this whole project on me.

I'm now taking a distant and cautious view, checking every now and then. If it ever comes out looking like what has been promised, I'll buy a cheap package with the most basic ship. Meanwhile, I'll keep reading the SC forums which never fail to give me a chuckle.

 

[staticneuron]

I'm grateful for Star Citizen. Sold my LTI account last year for a tidy sum that paid for a new and shiny X-52 Pro, Elite Dangerous beta and the edtracker gizmo for headtracking.

I kickstarted and jumped with joy more than 2 years ago when I pledged on SC, but the whole thing with the ship sales every few weeks/months with commercial videos and limited numbers felt like taking advantage of a fanbase that had been waiting for years for a revival of the space sim genre, fans that were in their late teens/early twenties when they played Wing Commander and now adults with disposable income to burn. That and the remembrance of the Freelancer fiasco many years ago when Chris Roberts pulled a great Molyneaux impression, overpromising and undelivering a game that ended up being a shell of what was supposed to be soured this whole project on me.

I'm now taking a distant and cautious view, checking every now and then. If it ever comes out looking like what has been promised, I'll buy a cheap package with the most basic ship. Meanwhile, I'll keep reading the SC forums which never fail to give me a chuckle.

You mean after MS purchased digital Anvil and after Roberts left, and they cut features? Yep, it is well remembered and talked about, and even documented on the web.


The only sales have been concept and anniversary sales. There has only been 8 commercials since the project started. I fail to see how that is excessive nor how it really affects an, sorry, a former original backer.

Is it?

Not that I'm disagreeing but I've witnessed it bandied about a lot.

On topic a bit, I did check and I definitely have LTI from early November 2012.

No talks about the changes mentioned that left you with such regrets?

 

[Karak]

I'm grateful for Star Citizen. Sold my LTI account last year for a tidy sum that paid for a new and shiny X-52 Pro, Elite Dangerous beta and the edtracker gizmo for headtracking.

I kickstarted and jumped with joy more than 2 years ago when I pledged on SC, but the whole thing with the ship sales every few weeks/months with commercial videos and limited numbers felt like taking advantage of a fanbase that had been waiting for years for a revival of the space sim genre, fans that were in their late teens/early twenties when they played Wing Commander and now adults with disposable income to burn. That and the remembrance of the Freelancer fiasco many years ago when Chris Roberts pulled a great Molyneaux impression, overpromising and undelivering a game that ended up being a shell of what was supposed to be soured this whole project on me.

I'm now taking a distant and cautious view, checking every now and then. If it ever comes out looking like what has been promised, I'll buy a cheap package with the most basic ship. Meanwhile, I'll keep reading the SC forums which never fail to give me a chuckle.

Uhm...man. Might want to remove that as that is not at all how it occurred.

 

[Dictator93]

Uhm...man. Might want to remove that as that is not at all how it occurred.

The continuity of events leading up his mentioning of it are also odd. He says he jumps at joy that SC is being kickstarted... and then the entire project (which he was happy about?) is soured due to some made up event.

 

[synce]

Come on who didn't see this coming? Some guy is going to create the most revolutionary game just because a bunch of money is thrown at him?

 

[TransTrender]

I laughed at the part about people in their early teens and twenties playing WC when I was eight when I got the first WC game for my birthday. Blew through three cheap ass joysticks before my dad was convinced to buy a decent one that would last.



Any who...I don't recall that's how the whole Starlancer thing went down, but I do recall that MS got their name to the top of my shit list for what they did to that game.

 

[More_Badass]

Come on who didn't see this coming? Some guy is going to create the most revolutionary game just because a bunch of money is thrown at him?

Some guy? Ever heard of Wing Commander?

Some guy + a 300-person dev team with numerous industry veterans?

 

[-tetsuo-]

Sounds like you got an agenda mate? I've never expected anything out of any devloper except to release a game when it is compelte with the least amount of problems possible.

I couldn't care less about those games you've listed, infact it would not bother me one bit had they never been released at all. If a product doesn't exist then there is no need for me to even care so why would I be deciding if it is worth my time and money? I'll enjoy my console games like I have done for years and you can keep enjoying gambling on games that may or may not see the light of day. Atleast from my perspective I know what i'm getting at the end of the day and will never have wasted any money which sounds like the smarter option. I'm not here to prop up the gaming industry, I just wanna play games, the industry will survive with or without kickstarter as it has done so for years. The best rated games are still the ones being made on console without kickstarter so it sounds like i'm in good hands lol.

This guy knows what hes talking about

 

[TransTrender]

Come on who didn't see this coming? Some guy is going to create the most revolutionary game just because a bunch of money is thrown at him?

Yup.
I'm a huge fan and I will literally spend $20k on a set up once the game has been proven. Until then I'll keep tabs but I'm not throwing my money away.

 

[Delta Assault]

Some guy? Ever heard of Wing Commander?

Some guy + a 300-person dev team with numerous industry veterans?

We've all heard of Wing Commander. Some of us even went to the first showing at the theater.

Freddie Prinze Jr. Matthew Lillard. Saffron Burrows. Boy, what a shitshow.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Big project is expensive and takes time.

./amaaaaaaazing

Unlike AC games which can be shit out in 6 months. Perspective, people.

I loled at this, like busted out laughing if you think all those art assets, animations, etc are only built in 6 months. Holy shit. And yet you said "perspective people." Yes please get some perspective on game development.

Sounds like you got an agenda mate? I've never expected anything out of any devloper except to release a game when it is compelte with the least amount of problems possible.

I couldn't care less about those games you've listed, infact it would not bother me one bit had they never been released at all. If a product doesn't exist then there is no need for me to even care so why would I be deciding if it is worth my time and money? I'll enjoy my console games like I have done for years and you can keep enjoying gambling on games that may or may not see the light of day. Atleast from my perspective I know what i'm getting at the end of the day and will never have wasted any money which sounds like the smarter option. I'm not here to prop up the gaming industry, I just wanna play games, the industry will survive with or without kickstarter as it has done so for years. The best rated games are still the ones being made on console without kickstarter so it sounds like i'm in good hands lol.

This is unbelievably transparent. What was going on in this thread? So many examples of misinformation and disingenuous posting from people who barely know anything about the game. :X

 

[jtb]

More than anything, this fundraising campaign just feels dirty. They're more concerned with raising more money (ie. ship sales) than getting this fucking game done. The initial investment money was used to.... go get more investment money. At some point, they need to put up or shut up.

 

[TransTrender]

We've all heard of Wing Commander. Some of us even went to the first showing at the theater.

Indeed. I was not pleased. Not sure how that script was greenlight when they could have gone all Macross and made a pretty competent movie that wrapped up the Kilrathi war or even got it to a cliff hanger stalemate where the humans were on equal footing.

 

[aranth]

Uhm...man. Might want to remove that as that is not at all how it occurred.

Hmph, wasn't Freelancer behind schedule and Digital Anvil in dire need of money to complete the game and that's why they asked Microsoft to fund it cause CR didn't want his vision of the game impaired by a lack of money? And after finalising the trade, Microsoft forced DA to cut features and actually ship a game. That's how I always read the story, and if I'm wrong you might want to explain what really happened.

And one can feel joyous like I did in 2012 when I kickstarted, and after 2 years seeing ship sale after sale, and just a barely functional hangar and ship module to show for get soured on the whole development. I'm not the only one, and I don't find it particularly strange.

 

[tuxfool]

And one can feel joyous like I did in 2012 when I kickstarted, and after 2 years seeing ship sale after sale, and just a barely functional hangar and ship module to show for get soured on the whole development. I'm not the only one, and I don't find it particularly strange.

For sure you're not the only one, but I'd say you're very much a minority. I certainly didn't back early so I'm not so miffed that the game has diverged from its original vision. However plenty of people seem pretty happy that now it is more ambitious than the originally planned, hence why it still is making money.

 

[CyberPunked]

They're more concerned with raising more money (ie. ship sales) than getting this fucking game done

I'm curious what evidence you have with this claim. Their development appears to be coming along very nicely.

 

[SnowTeeth]

This thread is so depressing. People claiming the fundraising campaign feels "dirty" probably have no clue about the game and the frequent updates it receives, People claiming Chris Roberts is a one hit wonder.... Ha! There's just so much willful ignorance and shit talking that I can only assume that it's just a lame attempt to seem "cool". Hipsters, icky hipsters.

 

[tuxfool]

We've all heard of Wing Commander. Some of us even went to the first showing at the theater.

Freddie Prinze Jr. Matthew Lillard. Saffron Burrows. Boy, what a shitshow.

You could check out some of his other credited films as a producer?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730932/?ref_=nv_sr_1

A few are pretty damn good.

 

[Yushi]

Hey guys, I heard GTA5 was made from scratch in 2 years.

 

[Delta Assault]

You could check out some of his other credited films as a producer?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730932/?ref_=nv_sr_1

A few are pretty damn good.

Eh, it's always rather difficult to discern what a producer is responsible for. Some producers just handle the finances, for example.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I loled at this, like busted out laughing if you think all those art assets, animations, etc are only built in 6 months. Holy shit. And yet you said "perspective people." Yes please get some perspective on game development.


This is unbelievably transparent. What was going on in this thread? So many examples of misinformation and disingenuous posting from people who barely know anything about the game. :X

Hyperbole, sure. But they're practically falling off an assembly line at this point: the same games with reused assets and mechanics, thinly repainted and completely phoned in.

Compared to Star Citizen's scope and ambition?

 

[tuxfool]

Eh, it's always rather difficult to discern what a producer is responsible for. Some producers just handle the finances, for example.

According to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_producer

Producer
Traditional producers, who are responsible for physical facilities, are given the credit of "produced by". In U.S. films, a producer can also be a writer who has not written enough of the screenplay to receive approval from the Writers Guild of America to be listed as a screenwriter.

Executive producer
The Executive Producer addresses the finances in that they pitch films to the studios, but upon acceptance they may focus on business matters, such as budgets and contracts.

 

[tuxfool]

Hyperbole, sure. But they're practically falling off an assembly line at this point: the same games with reused assets and mechanics, thinly repainted and completely phoned in?

Those games take 2/3 years to produce (not including pre-production probably) even when recycling assets. The thing that makes them release every year is that Ubisoft throws brute force labour at it. Much like Activision does with COD (but I believe they don't share as much technology).

It is commonly quoted that Unity had as much as 1000 people thrown at it. Don't know if that is peak or is wildly off the mark, but the credits on that sure is frekkin long.

 

[jtb]

I'm curious what evidence you have with this claim. There development appears to be coming along very nicely.

Then why the continued fundraising drive?

The reason people make a no-strings-attached investment (let's call it what it is: a gift) is because they do it in good faith. Roberts used that money to go out and invested into the fundraising (ships, ships, more ships!). Meanwhile the product keeps getting larger and larger in scope, which is fine... except the final product is, what, two? three years away? And there's no guarantee that all these added features are even going to come together in a cohesive manner because they're module-d to hell and back?

I just think the idea that you're using people's investments as a means of getting more funding... that's just scummy and a violation of that good faith. People invested in a product, not in writing a blank check to Chris Roberts so he could get more blank checks (even if, obviously, because they're not investors—that's exactly what it was, a blank check). and, at this point, the whole thing is a borderline Ponzi scheme. The only returns on the product have been used to go get more investments.

This isn't exclusive to Star Citizen, of course—it's problematic with all crowdfunding (and why the only one I've ever backed is Pillars of Eternity). But it's particularly worrying with the sheer amount of money being poured into SC, and all the emphasis Roberts places on the gloss and presentation aspect of it (despite his utter failure of a Hollywood career).

 

[tuxfool]

I just think the idea that you're using people's investments as a means of getting more funding... that's just scummy and a violation of that good faith. People invested in a product, not in writing a blank check to Chris Roberts so he could get more blank checks (even if, obviously, because they're not investors—that's exactly what it was, a blank check). and, at this point, the whole thing is a borderline Ponzi scheme. The only returns on the product have been used to go get more investments.

So you think he spent 70 million just making models for ships?

 

[jtb]

So you think he spent 70 million just making models for ships?

So far, that's all he has to show for it. Maybe he'll have a good game at the end of the tunnel too, maybe he'll have a shit one.

 

[tuxfool]

So far, that's all he has to show for it. Maybe he'll have a good game at the end of the tunnel too, maybe he'll have a shit one.

Uh, No. I suggest maybe you browse youtube or this thread (depite being the wasteland that it is).

 

[Rex Griswold]

So far, that's all he has to show for it. Maybe he'll have a good game at the end of the tunnel too, maybe he'll have a shit one.

Stop. It's embarrassing. A good number of ships are able to be flown. More ships are rendered and in hangar.

 

[mercenar1e]

Uh, No. I suggest maybe you browse youtube or this thread (depite being the wasteland that it is).

from what i remember all we have seen are the fps, ac modules and a landing zone.. maybe some WIP assets but nothing substantial like SQ42 or showing the economy, mining, pirating and planet exploration in action and in detail.

 

[tuxfool]

from what i remember all we have seen are the fps, ac modules and a landing zone.. maybe some WIP assets but nothing substantial like SQ42 or showing the economy, mining, pirating and planet exploration in action and in detail.

Those aren't substantial?

 

[staticneuron]

More than anything, this fundraising campaign just feels dirty. They're more concerned with raising more money (ie. ship sales) than getting this fucking game done. The initial investment money was used to.... go get more investment money. At some point, they need to put up or shut up.

Then why the continued fundraising drive?

The reason people make a no-strings-attached investment (let's call it what it is: a gift) is because they do it in good faith. Roberts used that money to go out and invested into the fundraising (ships, ships, more ships!). Meanwhile the product keeps getting larger and larger in scope, which is fine... except the final product is, what, two? three years away? And there's no guarantee that all these added features are even going to come together in a cohesive manner because they're module-d to hell and back?

I just think the idea that you're using people's investments as a means of getting more funding... that's just scummy and a violation of that good faith. People invested in a product, not in writing a blank check to Chris Roberts so he could get more blank checks (even if, obviously, because they're not investors—that's exactly what it was, a blank check). and, at this point, the whole thing is a borderline Ponzi scheme. The only returns on the product have been used to go get more investments.

This isn't exclusive to Star Citizen, of course—it's problematic with all crowdfunding (and why the only one I've ever backed is Pillars of Eternity). But it's particularly worrying with the sheer amount of money being poured into SC, and all the emphasis Roberts places on the gloss and presentation aspect of it (despite his utter failure of a Hollywood career).

Really? How many times is nonsense like this is going to be posted. Especially when their efforts are outlined in the article in the OP?

This is unbelievably transparent. What was going on in this thread? So many examples of misinformation and disingenuous posting from people who barely know anything about the game. :X

This thread is so depressing. People claiming the fundraising campaign feels "dirty" probably have no clue about the game and the frequent updates it receives, People claiming Chris Roberts is a one hit wonder.... Ha! There's just so much willful ignorance and shit talking that I can only assume that it's just a lame attempt to seem "cool". Hipsters, icky hipsters.

It is starting to look like that.

from what i remember all we have seen are the fps, ac modules and a landing zone.. maybe some WIP assets but nothing substantial like SQ42 or showing the economy, mining, pirating and planet exploration in action and in detail.

I was going to type out something lengthy here but instead let me ask you a question. Do you think the playable modules and what has been shown already, seem as if they are examples of vaporware? Because if not, then understand that what you are asking for means the game should be closer to release and they have a couple of important milestones to cross first.

Those aren't substantial?

Apparently not.

This thread is giving me a headache. I don't know why I am revisiting this thread only to find another wave of misinformed or sus posts.

 

[jtb]

Of course, they're making progress. I think it's telling that the hanger module was the first completed (but I'll happily give them benefit of the doubt here since I'm sure that was also by far the easiest to develop/finish). I'm not sure the world needed yet another sci-fi FPS, but, hey... they had the money. They're also adding continually adding features and asking more money, which in turn gives them more features, pushing back the release, in turn allowing them to ask for more money. The finished product is nowhere in sight and neither is adult supervision.

My argument is a philosophical one. Roberts has zero legal or financial obligation to a single person who donated to that 77m, and he knows it. That's already a huge leash, the biggest leash anyone has in the industry. They gave that money in good faith; is it really all that much to ask him to respect that?

(I'm cynical. In an industry rife with mismanagement, why shouldn't I be?)

 

[SnowTeeth]

despite his utter failure of a Hollywood career

Bias showing much?

 

[mercenar1e]

I was going to type out something lengthy here but instead let me ask you a question. Do you think the playable modules and what has been shown already, seem as if they are examples of vaporware? Because if not, then understand that what you are asking for means the game should be closer to release and they have a couple of important milestones to cross first.

i didn't say the game is vaporware. i just want a live event or a youtube video that is focused on the other parts of the game that we haven't seen.

 

[CyberPunked]

So far, that's all he has to show for it. Maybe he'll have a good game at the end of the tunnel too, maybe he'll have a shit one.

You have done no research on the game if the only thing you've seen are ship models XD

 

[Zalusithix]

I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this...

I couldn't care less about those games you've listed, infact it would not bother me one bit had they never been released at all.

Yeah, who cares if some of the best games in recent times within their respective genres never got released at all. It would have been better for the genres to continue to go neglected, because the publishers are always right. /s That's some pretty hardcore spite. It's one thing to have a game not appeal to you. It's another to dismiss them out of existence. I don't care for games like Bloodborne, but I can't say I wouldn't be bothered if future games never came out. Things like that aren't good for the industry. Variety is needed.

I'll enjoy my console games like I have done for years and you can keep enjoying gambling on games that may or may not see the light of day.

I'll actually do both. I have all of the consoles - including the handhelds, and a PC. It's nice having options like that. I can enjoy the big productions of the console realm (derivative as they often are), and also enjoy PC gaming in all of its modded glory.

The best rated games are still the ones being made on console without kickstarter so it sounds like i'm in good hands lol.

I'm not sure whether it's funny or sad that you think that consoles have the best games. There's plenty of good games on consoles, but they're no better than PC games (in the few cases they're not already on the PC). Once upon a time you could argue that console games had less bugs and such. That really doesn't hold water any more though. Console games can be just as buggy and outright broken as PC games. Just look at how long Driveclub was broken, or Halo: MCC, or AC:Unity.

 

[jtb]

Bias showing much?

Absolutely. My faith, or lack thereof, is definitely influenced by his track record. It's why I backed Obsidian and why I didn't back Star Citizen.

 

[SnowTeeth]

i didn't say the game is vaporware. i just want a live event or a youtube video that is focused on the other parts of the game that we haven't seen.

Do you want the entire PU by the years end too don't you? Entitled prat.

 

[CyberPunked]

Absolutely. My faith, or lack thereof, is definitely influenced by his track record. It's why I backed Obsidian and why I didn't back Star Citizen.

People need to stop replying to the biased

Spoiler

why did I just reply

 

[SnowTeeth]

Absolutely. My faith, or lack thereof, is definitely influenced by his track record. It's why I backed Obsidian and why I didn't back Star Citizen.

And what track record is that?

EDIT: I should of listened to CyberPunked,

Spoiler

I will listen to CyberPunked

 

[jtb]

And what track record is that?

He made great games once and isn't equipped to properly manage huge teams and gobs of money without adult supervision. (and way overvalues Hollywood gloss.)

(fwiw, I wouldn't back Molyneux in a kickstarter either though his games/concepts are a lot less interesting to me than Star Citizen would be if it lives up to everything it promises to be.)

I don't think it's too much to ask Roberts to say: this is the game we will make. Period. This is when we want to have it out. Now we're gonna finish the game and you can judge us on that. You owe backers that, I think, instead of a moving, increasingly unattainable target.

People need to stop replying to the biased

Spoiler

why did I just reply

everyone's biased.

 

[staticneuron]

i didn't say the game is vaporware. i just want a live event or a youtube video that is focused on the other parts of the game that we haven't seen.

They can't show you what is not finished yet. They cannot show you pirate, without getting the multicrew ships and FPS working first. They showed planetside already but cannot show exploration until they are done the main hubs first.All of this is soon to come though given the timeline of that has been posted. And economy/mining/trade will certainly come after the more military themed design scenarios because of squadron 42. And they most likely haven't shown much of S42 because of spoiler concerns but they showed the capture work done at the imaginarium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUUlU6RvrQE

Like I said before, some of things you are asking to see means they should have completed some major milestones first. Since they haven't done so (but are working on it) it is unreasonable to ask for things that logically shouldn't be promised until underlying engine is finished.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Hyperbole, sure. But they're practically falling off an assembly line at this point: the same games with reused assets and mechanics, thinly repainted and completely phoned in.

Compared to Star Citizen's scope and ambition?

Compare AC4 to AC:Unity, they went in, changed a shit ton of the engine, made tons of new animations, didn't reuse anything realistic speaking, redid the entire gameplay pillars. Dude, you realize that each game gets at least three years of dev time at this point right? It's lying to yourself if you were to tell me that playing AC4 and then playing ACU would be the same experience. They both have very ambitious scope and scale. Star Citizen especially. But they both also have different goals in mind.

i didn't say the game is vaporware. i just want a live event or a youtube video that is focused on the other parts of the game that we haven't seen.

Considering how negatively gamers react to WIP work, I can definitely see why they wouldn't want to show parts that aren't even close to being finished compared to the other modules.

 

[mercenar1e]

Do you want the entire PU by the years end too don't you? Entitled prat.

entitled prat? people are up in arms over the slightest criticism lol calm down dude i didn't say i wanted or demand that the game be released as quick as possible.

 

[SnowTeeth]

entitled prat? people are up in arms over the slightest criticism lol calm down dude i didn't say i wanted or demand that the game be released as quick as possible.

It wasn't a criticism it was a tantrum from someone who wants time to somehow be meaningless. That live event will happen dude, you're the one who needs to calm down.

 

[mercenar1e]

It wasn't a criticism it was a tantrum from someone who wants time to somehow be meaningless. That live event will happen dude, you're the one who needs to calm down.

So now my criticism is a tantrum. Stop being so sensitive.

 

[SnowTeeth]

So now my criticism is a tantrum. Stop being so sensitive.

Okay then, criticise away..

Spoiler

Or don't

 

[Muzicfreq]

Come on who didn't see this coming? Some guy is going to create the most revolutionary game just because a bunch of money is thrown at him?

Thats how people think when buying their latest shiny phone thinking it will cure cancer this time around.

But really there's more to it than money. I will still stay skeptical to this game until it launches and the user reviews come out.

Hey guys, I heard GTA5 was made from scratch in 2 years.

This is false. I remember a while back they had a leak on their own website only to be taken down the next day even with early shots of the game/trailer.

 

[Muzicfreq]

double post.

 

[tuxfool]

This is false. I remember a while back they had a leak on their own website only to be taken down the next day even with early shots of the game/trailer.

It was sarcasm. OFC gta5 wasn't made in 2 years. It would be impossible even if it wasn't made by R*.