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[BronsonLee]

This is also a perfect time for me to point out that the rise of Trevorrow is linked to:

Brad Bird liking him (keep him in Animation Jail forever)
Steven Spielberg liking him (PUT him in Animation Jail and keep that flop actor from BFG with him too, Ryback or whatever his name was)
Kathleen Kennedy liking him (she's coo)

 

[HariKari]

I hate to break this to you, but knowing people who can help get you gigs is one of the top ways that you get work in this world. Merit often comes second to a good recommendation and networking with the right people. That's the way the world works.

Totally fine for an internship or harmless job in a vast corporation. Probably not okay for helming a potentially $2 billion dollar tentpole in a valuable franchise.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

So, in a massive reversal from the norm, it was the writers who had all of the creative control and freedom, and got the directors fired? That's... pretty crazy. I mean, it's Kasdan and it's Han Solo, but still. Nuts.

 

[Monocle]

lol

Kathleen Kennedy's word sure isn't going to be worth much going into the future.


Never said Rogue was as bad as the prequels. Although, personally, I found it to be one of the dullest things I've sat through in recent memory. An absolute bore. At least there's some entertainment to be gleaned from the awfulness of the prequels.

Fair enough I guess.

 

[Jarmel]

Lord and Miller (21 Jump Street, The Lego Movie) have a comedic and improvisational style while Kasdan favors a strict adherence to the written word – what is on the page is what must be shot.

This might explain why Johnson hasn't run into any issues. Johnson wrote the script for VIII. Kasdan on the other hand wrote the script for this and this is also his pet project along with his son. Kasdan might have wanted a more pure 'translation' of the script causing friction while Johnson never ran into any of these problems due to his own control of the script and lack of vested interest.

 

[BumRush]

It would be L+M's vision of Kasdans' vision.

Right, but if Kasdan says "that's not the way Han would do THAT" L+M probably can't just say "too bad", you know?

 

[Father_Brain]

Well yeah, Abrams is the epitome of a safe, average, by the numbers, workman-like blockbuster director, so I doubt the chance for creative clashes was high. But the thing is some people here insisted how Lucasfilm had given the guy complete creative control.

Rian Johnson is a much more off-the-wall choice, so I'm even less inclined to believe that what he says is true. Maybe he believes it.

Well, it's possible that his vision for his film just happened to align better with Kennedy's own than Lord/Miller's did. Or maybe it was about personality. Or maybe he's just engaging in PR spin like you say. Or maybe it's some combination of the above.

But FWIW: https://twitter.com/mjsamps/status/877347705550499842

 

[duckroll]

Wait, this has been shooting for 4 months and they get booted NOW? Very strange. Like, first you have the pitch process, then you have the script process, and then you have the entire pre-production process before shooting, and through all that both sides didn't realize their visions were incompatible until 4 months into the actual shoot? Really? C'mon.

 

[Mariolee]

Right, but if Kasdan says "that's not the way Han would do THAT" L+M probably can't just say "too bad", you know?

I mean, obviously. That's why we're here.

Edit: Usually that's not the case with films, and directors have more power over writers as I understand it, but I could be totally wrong.

 

[BronsonLee]

Totally fine for an internship or harmless job in a vast corporation. Probably not okay for helming a potentially $2 billion dollar tentpole in a valuable franchise.

Worked just fine for Jurassic World

So, in a massive reversal from the norm, it was the writers who had all of the creative control and freedom, and got the directors fired? That's... pretty crazy. I mean, it's Kasdan and it's Han Solo, but still. Nuts.

Man the writer's strike really changed things

 

[Surfinn]

No we don't. Because not everyone with a rational mind succumbs to if a=b, and b=c then a=c fallacies.



-internet dude with no real evidence

So what do you think Rian Johnson meant when he said he's had more creative control with EP8 than any other project he's previously worked on? Out of curiosity

 

[Jigorath]

I wonder how the cast feels about this.

 

[MMarston]

Well, it's possible that his vision for his film just happened to align better with Kennedy's own than Lord/Miller's did. Or maybe it was about personality. Or maybe he's just engaging in PR spin like you say. Or maybe it's some combination of the above.

But FWIW: https://twitter.com/mjsamps/status/877347705550499842

Yeah, something about L/M must have really rustled the jimmies of the higher-ups based on that tweet.

I just hope it was an understandable reason and wasn't some Konami-tier level of pettiness.

 

[Jarmel]

Wait, this has been shooting for 4 months and they get booted NOW? Very strange. Like, first you have the pitch process, then you have the script process, and then you have the entire pre-production process before shooting, and through all that both sides didn't realize their visions were incompatible until 4 months into the actual shoot? Really? C'mon.

Sounds like they went way offscript and Kasdan had a meltdown over it along with Kennedy just personally not liking them initially and over time grew to hate them.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I wonder how the cast feels about this.

From what I understand, cast had no problems w/ their directors.

 

[Jarmel]

Kasdan should just do the movie. He has a very clear vision of how the characters should act and isn't going to allow much deviation. He has directing experience so he should just up and do it.

 

[duckroll]

Sounds like they went way offscript and Kasdan had a meltdown over it along with Kennedy just personally not liking them initially and over time grew to hate them.

Yeah that's what it sounds like, but surely this would have surfaced during the initial talks. How did it get this far without them going "let's part ways before wasting each other's time"? I don't think anyone here is being an asshole, but why did they think it was going to work if neither party was comfortable?

 

[Mariolee]

I can't wait for the inevitable Donald Glover interview in a few years where he lays down what really happened from his perspective, then writes a Gambino track about it.

 

[HoJu]

This is also a perfect time for me to point out that the rise of Trevorrow is linked to:

Brad Bird liking him (keep him in Animation Jail forever)
Steven Spielberg liking him (PUT him in Animation Jail and keep that flop actor from BFG with him too, Ryback or whatever his name was)
Kathleen Kennedy liking him (she's coo)

What. Are you angry about Rocky not getting the Oscar or something lol

 

[Einchy]

Remember the good old days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLQlf_opvU

 

[jett]

Wait, this has been shooting for 4 months and they get booted NOW? Very strange. Like, first you have the pitch process, then you have the script process, and then you have the entire pre-production process before shooting, and through all that both sides didn't realize their visions were incompatible until 4 months into the actual shoot? Really? C'mon.

KK thought "whatever, we'll fix it in post, these two cartoon movie directors will play ball."

LM was like "nah bruh"

 

[VistraNorrez]

I'm really not sure how they didn't think something was up at the table read. That should have been the last red flag.

 

[BronsonLee]

What. Are you angry about Rocky not getting the Oscar or something lol

YES

FUCK THAT GUY
U
C
K

 

[btrboyev]

Well yeah, Abrams is the epitome of a safe, average, by the numbers, workman-like blockbuster director, so I doubt the chance for creative clashes was high. But the thing is some people here insisted how Lucasfilm had given the guy complete creative control.

Rian Johnson is a much more off-the-wall choice, so I'm even less inclined to believe that what he says is true. Maybe he believes it.

Both Abrams and Johnson have gone on record to say they had as much creative freedom as they wanted. I mean, JJ tossed out a finished script when he was hired so he could do it instead.

No reason to not believe them.

 

[Jarmel]

Yeah that's what it sounds like, but surely this would have surfaced during the initial talks. How did it get this far without them going "let's part ways before wasting each other's time"? I don't think anyone here is being an asshole, but why did they think it was going to work if neither party was comfortable?

The personality thing is probably hard to detect and I imagine normally she might have still let it go if it wasn't for Kasdan. They should have known about how L&M direct and how closely they adhere to the scripts but it's possible Kasdan thought he could have lived with it early on. Or it could be horrible mismanagement as usual.

 

[duckroll]

KK thought "whatever, we'll fix it in post, these two cartoon movie directors will play ball."

LM was like "nah bruh"

Okay, I read the bunch of tweets linked above. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. That makes sense now. Ouch.

 

[B33]

Remember the good old days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLQlf_opvU

Who still wants to go on that set, now?

Could be interesting.

 

[Mariolee]

Who still wants to go on that set, now?

Could be interesting.

I would argue more people would want to go on set now.

 

[BumRush]

Edit: Usually that's not the case with films, and directors have more power over writers as I understand it, but I could be totally wrong.

No you're absolutely right. But this is SW and Kasdan, so I imagine there not being too much leeway or freedom to go off in other directions.

Sounds like they went way offscript and Kasdan had a meltdown over it

Until we hear more, I think I'm here as well. Maybe not a meltdown, but it seems like L+Ms vision for the character was different than Kasdan's and Disney / LFL are going to side with Kasdan 99.9999% of the time

 

[MHWilliams]

There is no fucking way they don't bump this back to December now, either.

Just a matter of time before that announcement gets made.

Most assuredly. They have to finish shooting, see what they have, do and rewrites and reshoots, then cut it together again.

 

[Einchy]

I would argue more people would want to go on set now.

I'll pay big bucks if you get me in a room with Kasdan, KK and Lord & Miller.

 

[Jarmel]

Until we hear more, I think I'm here as well. Maybe not a meltdown, but it seems like L+Ms vision for the character was different than Kasdan's and Disney / LFL are going to side with Kasdan 99.9999% of the time

It's worth mentioning again that the only reason this project was greenlit in the first place was due to pleasing Kasdan.

 

[B33]

I would argue more people would want to go on set now.

Fair point.

 

[golem]

Imagine the screenwriter looking over your shoulder the entire movie.

Must be nice.

Creative freedom for screenwriters!

 

[VistraNorrez]

No you're absolutely right. But this is SW and Kasdan, so I imagine there not being too much leeway or freedom to go off in other directions.

Until we hear more, I think I'm here as well. Maybe not a meltdown, but it seems like L+Ms vision for the character was different than Kasdan's and Disney / LFL are going to side with Kasdan 99.9999% of the time

Then they shouldn't have hired directors known for improvising on set and making wacky movies. They should have got Ron Howard from the start.

 

[BronsonLee]

I'll pay big bucks if you get me in a room with Kasdan, KK and Lord & Miller.

 

[B33]

It's worth mentioning again that the only reason this project was greenlit in the first place was due to pleasing Kasdan.

This is supposedly Kasdan's final project before he retires, so I can understand the tension.

 

[Mariolee]

Would get the highest ratings they've had in years.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Damn shame. The pieces were together. Ready for something special. Now they're going to cobble something together. I doubt even if it turns out well, it'll be as good as it could have been.

 

[Blader]

So, in a massive reversal from the norm, it was the writers who had all of the creative control and freedom, and got the directors fired? That's... pretty crazy. I mean, it's Kasdan and it's Han Solo, but still. Nuts.

This has been Kasdan's pet project for years, it even predates The Force Awakens. So he has way more clout here than Lord and Miller.

 

[ZeoVGM]

You're super defensive about something and I'm really not sure what. Because I'm giving Rian Johnson credit here as I love his work. You're treating it as a slight to say he's able to work within a certain system, and somehow inferring it overshadows (???) his original work, like he can't be talented at both. Again, it's not the complicated.

I'm not being defensive at all. You said something that didn't make sense/isn't true and I replied to it.

 

[BumRush]

Then they shouldn't have hired directors known for improvising on set and making wacky movies. They should have got Ron Howard from the start.

Probably right. And like it was stated above, I think KK, Kasdan, etc just figured a great movie would be made and they could massage it to their vision in post. When L+M said "no", they got the boot. I can't blame either side (unless more info comes out) really...

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's worth mentioning again that the only reason this project was greenlit in the first place was due to pleasing Kasdan.

It was literally Kasdan's condition for being brought on to TFA, yeah.

Dude probably has more clout/respect at LFL than anyone other than Kathy herself.

 

[duckroll]

This is supposedly Kasdan's final project before he retires, so I can understand the tension.

Never understood why he didn't just direct it himself then.

 

[jett]

Both Abrams and Johnson have gone on record to say they had as much creative freedom as they wanted. I mean, JJ tossed out a finished script when he was hired so he could do it instead.

No reason to not believe them.

They can say whatever on record. Only fools burn bridges in Hollywood.

Regarding JJ getting a new script, I figure KK was more than on board with his notion of being reverent to the OT in nearly every way and giving the original trio more prominence in this new trilogy. I doubt he just grabbed Arnst's script and tossed it into the trash without any justification.

These people have as much creative control as they're allowed to have.

 

[molnizzle]

There is no fucking way they don't bump this back to December now, either.

Just a matter of time before that announcement gets made.

Silver lining...

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

This has been Kasdan's pet project for years, it even predates The Force Awakens. So he has way more clout here than Lord and Miller.

Oh I know, that's why I emphasized his name and the fact that it's this particular movie. I absolutely get WHY he has so much sway here. In the grand scheme of things it's still pretty crazy though. Has there ever been a notable case of a writer (who's not producing) getting a director fired before? Let alone on a noteworthy project with notable directors?

 

[Surfinn]

What were L&M doing that Kennedy hated so much?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What were L&M doing that Kennedy hated so much?

It was probably the way they did things as much as what they were doing.

The reports really make it sound like at some point, both sides just started seriously getting on each other's fucking nerves.

 

[slightconfuse]

This is crazy. Why not just do the reshoots with out them?