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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser

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where's the politics

You got a few lines and they mentioned the name "Republic". That's enough for a highly energetic film which has to cover a ton of new bases and characters.

I hope I'm not the only one noticed that JJ was so adamant about there being no meetings or sitting around for too long that poor Finn seemed out of breath for almost every scene.
 

sphagnum

Banned
You got a few lines and they mentioned the name "Republic". That's enough for a highly energetic film which has to cover a ton of new bases and characters.

I hope I'm not the only one noticed that JJ was so adamant about there being no meetings or sitting around for too long that poor Finn seemed out of breath for almost every scene.

That's the problem! Aside from never slowing down for character moments, they never got into any world building. So many people were confused by the whole nature of the conflict or the relation between the Republic and Resistance.

But yeah Boyega basically sweats the entire movie.
 
I'm going to ask a serious (lol) question:

How is TFA like ESB or ROTJ? The ANH similarities, I can roll with some of them but if you motherfuckers tell me TFA is like ESB because they both have snow planets or that they're similar because Takodana and Endor have trees I'm out.

Im about to walk into a screening of Lost City of Z (finally) so I can come back later and explain in detail. It really felt like "out with the old, in with the new" with a big bang and no slowing down, taking pieces of all three classics (even though they cut out the "speeder chase" with Finn and Rey).
 
That's the problem! Aside from never slowing down for character moments, they never got into any world building. So many people were confused by the whole nature of the conflict or the relation between the Republic and Resistance.

But yeah Boyega basically sweats the entire movie.

That's because they wanted it to be NOTHING like the prequels. Get people back then slow it down in 8. Shit, I hope you're ready for Rian's take on putting the breaks on. They had to remind people what Star Wars was.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Honestly I wish they'd have incorporated some of the weirder elements from the concept stages which would have made TFA really stand out. Red Star Destroyers, Kylo powering up by consuming star matter, the Resistance using the Sledgehammer to break through Starkiller/Doom Star's shield and the FO responding with the Array, Jakku truly being a junk planet, the half blue/half red dual saber, etc.
 

molnizzle

Member
Im about to walk into a screening of Lost City of Z (finally) so I can come back later and explain in detail. It really felt like "out with the old, in with the new" with a big bang and no slowing down, taking pieces of all three classics (even though they cut out the "speeder chase" with Finn and Rey).

Yep. TFA was the palate cleanser we needed after the prequels. Essentially a "reboot" to start off this new era of yearly Star Wars films. It served its purpose and served it extremely well.

Now we get to get into some real shit with TLJ. Fucking hype!
 

sphagnum

Banned
That's because they wanted it to be NOTHING like the prequels. Get people back then slow it down in 8. Shit, I hope you're ready for Rian's take on putting the breaks on. They had to remind people what Star Wars was.

Wrong decision IMO. Everyone loves the Death Star boardroom meeting because it's done well. Politics in and of itself wouldn't have been damaging.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Honestly I wish they'd have incorporated some of the weirder elements from the concept stages [..] Jakku truly being a junk planet, the half blue/half red dual saber, etc.
jakku%20junk%20walkers.jpg


Jakku as a wide open swampland junkyard would have been better than the Tatooine retread. It was like JJ was afraid it was not ANH enough and too much like Naboo or something. They even reused all the McQuarrie Tatooine concept art for Jakku.
It would also have made more sense to fight over a planet like that vs. complete desert.
 

Betty

Banned
jakku%20junk%20walkers.jpg


Jakku as a wide open swampland junkyard would have been better than the Tatooine retread. It was like JJ was afraid it was not ANH enough and too much like Naboo or something. They even reused all the McQuarrie Tatooine concept art for Jakku.
It would also have made more sense to fight over a planet like that vs. complete desert.

That does look a helluva lot more interesting thank the Tatooine 2 we got.
 
Alright fine, I'll give you this in that you're not trying to argue that Disney executives are some controlling corprate force that will or wont allow Lucasfilm to make what they want because money, we've had that discussion numerous times today with people using the terms comittee and story comittee. Which we've already established isn't true.

So going from there, from what I've read about production and heard from panels, interviews etc.

Each film maker gets to tell the story that they want to. This isn't up to anyone else but them. The Force Awakens was made by JJ Abrams and Kasdan. Starkiller base resembles the death star because that's what they wrote and wanted. No one stopped them from taking bigger risks in the star wars universe, that was entirely their choice, and while they could have had something better than Death Star 3.0, I think starting off the trilogy that way is a good way to get people back into and interested in Star Wars again, so it served its purpose, it got people interested, it introduced new characters, and most people like it.

Moving on from there, while Kasdan and JJ Abrams might have some input and suggestions on where the next film goes, its not up to them. JJ right now is only involved in episode 8 as a producer, he has little to no creative part of Episode 8, neither does Kasdan as he's working on the Han Solo film. So just about everything in Episode 8 is the way Rian Johnson wants it, as he's both the sole writer and director of the film. That's not to say he has absolute control over every single aspect, but lets say its about 85%-90%.

There isn't any set direction for this trilogy to follow, and the films content aren't dictated by extended universe content, its the other way around. The films will dictate what happens in the extended universe content, so the films have more room to breathe and extended universe is there to compliment the films and the universe rather than congest it, which is why the old EU was thrown out. There was no where to go and no room to breathe. The lucasfilm story group works with the directors on how the Star Wars universe goes forward, the directors have far more say than the story group, but it's still a collaberative effort and again, the only authority that the lucasfilm story group has, is to say "You can't do that because it would contradict currently established canon" or "Okay so, you want to do this, we'll give you room in the extended universe to make sure no one is working on something similar so there's no overlap or contradiction". That's pretty much it.

From there, of course Kathleen Kennedy will oversee all projects, she decides what gets greenlit, she decides who she wants directing the films and of course she's watching over to make sure everything fits together and goes smoothy. She's pretty hands off, and if I recall correctly, she specifically called Episode 8 "Rians vision" or something along those lines. That means that episode 8, its direction and its content for the most part is entirely up to Rian, in the same way that Episode 7's content was entirely up to JJ and Kasdan and its pretty clear that Kathleen herself is entirely okay with the hands off approach, that in particular was something I think was brought up during TLJ panel. But the most important part of this is that this film will be his vision and its up to him to create the future of Star Wars and its direction.

Taking that into account, also know that Rian wrote the story for Episode 9. Which means that this trilogy is pretty much Rian's trilogy and that he has near complete control over Star Wars' future. If they didn't trust him to do that job then he wouldn't have it at all. But unless Rian wants to start putting rape scenes and things like disembowelment into Star Wars then he's got the keys to do whatever he wants. Colin Trevarrow doesn't have to follow what Rian wants and he's free to change what he likes, he has the final say on episode 9 because it'll be his film and if he wants to do that, no one is going to stop him as long as it fits with everything else.

Now on whether or not Rian will actually do that: It's been stated that Episode 8 is a very different star wars film and that Rian is doing a lot of new things. If they didn't trust him and if he wasn't able to work freely you wouldn't be hearing these things at all. But if anything these films are more director friendly than things like Marvel films and its entirely up to Rian how far he wants to take his ideas and concepts, and the future of this franchise rests in his hands.

there isn't any preset story and no one is going to step in unless they have to.

I appreciate the reply.

To me, being the jaded person I am, don't believe anyone gets the keys to a franchise as big Star Wars without larger creative oversight with the longer-term picture in view, especially in a post MCU Hollywood.

I'm not saying there is a secret "Disney approved" script Rian has to follow, but from what I've read, it felt like LucasFilms/Kathleen had some ideas or a general treatment for parts of this new trilogy, and it's just been modified along the way. I think the big changes still get pitched and discussed and greenlighted, and Rian has to go through that process and doesn't have a "creative blank cheque" with little to no oversight that discusses the ramifications of big changes.

Rian is one of my all-time favorite directors, I saw the trailer for "Brick" long before it came out and stalked the movie online until it finally came to a vaguely local indie theater. I hope he has "85% to 90%" control of the next two movies, I think he has the writing chops to make them truly unique.

Ultimately though, I look at the time-table these movies are cranked out at, to the absolute detriment of the TFA script. Then I look at the choices that were green-lit in TFA, numerous things that were thinly disguised retreads of what came before, just less coherent and much lower quality. So far, regardless of what they mouth in press releases, hasn't really shown a willingness to mess with the formula.

While I think TLJ will definitely take more chances, both because Rian and because it had more time in the oven, I have my doubts that all the forces involved with a Star Wars movie would let it break far enough outside the mold to completely kill off the Jedi.

Star Wars fandom is a strange beast, trying to find a balance that keeps everyone happy is going to be tough, if they do kill off the Jedi and replace it with something sub-par, there could be a real split in the fanbase, and I think LucasFilms in a post prequel world is aware of that and what the stakes are, and would tread very carefully on major changes to the point they'd nix certain things outright.

But I absolutely hope I'm wrong on that assumption, and Rian can replace the Jedi with something new, that is as good or better.
 

Guy.brush

Member
jakku%20concept%201.jpg

One with salvagers using venice style gondolas to navigate the swamps and a town made of Tie fighter cockpits and remnants.

56bf87d60ee99_IfthisPicdoesntload....jpg.b6f5d67f05b79dd72607bb75a78d6780.jpg

More foresty.
 
jakku%20junk%20walkers.jpg


Jakku as a wide open swampland junkyard would have been better than the Tatooine retread. It was like JJ was afraid it was not ANH enough and too much like Naboo or something. They even reused all the McQuarrie Tatooine concept art for Jakku.
It would also have made more sense to fight over a planet like that vs. complete desert.

This looks amazing. Like, looking at this brings a level of disappointment similar to the Epic Mickey concept art vs finished game.
 

molnizzle

Member
Star Wars fandom is a strange beast, trying to find a balance that keeps everyone happy is going to be tough, if they do kill off the Jedi and replace it with something sub-par, there could be a real split in the fanbase, and I think LucasFilms in a post prequel world is aware of that and what the stakes are, and would tread very carefully on major changes to the point they'd nix certain things outright.

It won't be sub-par since it'll allow the heroes to get mad and wreck shit just like the fans want them to. It'll also allow them to have romantic entanglements out in the open, have kids, have friends, etc. It'll humanize the force users in a way that we haven't really seen since the OT.

Basically, these new "Jedi" will be what everyone thought the normal Jedi were before the prequels came and fucked everything up.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Didn't the orginal opening have Luke's lightsaber shot macrophotography style so it would look like a big spaceship only to be revealed to be the saber and then doing an E.D.L. on Jakku? And Rey actually finding it in the SD wreck?
It would have been better probably than the "Maz Kanata's Castle, hidden in a box in the basement" version we got.
 

-griffy-

Banned
I'm going to ask a serious (lol) question:

How is TFA like ESB or ROTJ? The ANH similarities, I can roll with some of them but if you motherfuckers tell me TFA is like ESB because they both have snow planets or that they're similar because Takodana and Endor have trees I'm out.
You got the protagonist sneaking around at the end like Luke through Cloud City, you got a contentious meeting on a bridge between a father and a son (and Kylo's arc at the end is overall an inverse of Luke's from ESB), and you got a finale that is an intercutting between an air battle trying to blow up a big ball and a ground battle/light saber duel in a forest that in execution is structured more like the ROTJ finale then it is the ANH one. Then it ends on a big ole "TO BE CONTINUED" that is more ESB than ANH.
 

Monocle

Member
Honestly I wish they'd have incorporated some of the weirder elements from the concept stages which would have made TFA really stand out. Red Star Destroyers, Kylo powering up by consuming star matter, the Resistance using the Sledgehammer to break through Starkiller/Doom Star's shield and the FO responding with the Array, Jakku truly being a junk planet, the half blue/half red dual saber, etc.
Fans would have had none of it. They would have been pining for a movie like TFA.

"Weird colored shenanigans in mah Star Wars? Of course Disney would try this garbage!"
 

sphagnum

Banned
Didn't the orginal opening have Luke's lightsaber shot macrophotography style so it would look like a big spaceship only to be revealed to be the saber and then doing an E.D.L. on Jakku? And Rey actually finding it in the SD wreck?
It would have been better probably than the "Maz Kanata's Castle, hidden in a box in the basement" version we got.

That was one version, yes, when the lightsaber was the macguffin. Presumably the map was hidden in the kyber crystal or something.
 

Surfinn

Member
That was one version, yes, when the lightsaber was the macguffin. Presumably the map was hidden in the kyber crystal or something.
I like what we got a lot better. Plus now we have the classic moment when the saber flies into her hand. Had she just been casually carrying it around instead of having touched it once before that and ran, that moment doesn't work.
 

sphagnum

Banned
I like what we got a lot better. Plus now we have the classic moment when the saber flies into her hand. Had she just been casually carrying it around instead of having touched it once before that and ran, that moment doesn't work.

She didn't use it beforehand. Everything proceeded the same with I guess BB8 holding onto the saber? Once they got to Maz (this was when Takodana was an "exotic planet" with a whole city that they met Leia in) she apparently explained the history of the saber in a much more extended flashback. Rey felt revolted by it but Finn decided to take the saber. From there I think it would've played out more or less the same.

For reference, this was once the way the Forceback played out:

EXT DAY - 192 - SAVANNAH • Reprise Hand takes sword, we reveal Naka

EXT NIGHT - 193 - SAVANNAH - PEASANT'S HOVEL • Peasant is using the sword as a firestarter

EXT DAY - 194 - SAVANNAH - PEASANT'S HOVEL • Local trader buys sword off of Naka

EXT NIGHT - 195 - SAVANNAH • Local trader already has sold the sword on

EXT NIGHT - 196 - BATTLEFIELD • A battle rages. The sword is being used.

EXT DAY - 198 - ACADEMY • Leia and Han Solo hand over Young Kylo Ren to his Uncle for training

EXT DAWN - 200 - ACADEMY • Young Kylo Ren being trained by his Uncle

INT NIGHT - 202 - ACADEMY • Bodies left behind - Young Kylo Ren is gone

EXT DAY - 203 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

EXT DUSK - 204 - ACADEMY • R2-D2 upset as his master leaves

EXT NIGHT - 205 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

EXT DAY - 207 - CASTLE • Reveal Maz Kanata's spectacular Castle

INT DAY - 208 - CASTLE • Maz Kanata walks the group through the Castle interiour

EXT NIGHT - 209 - CASTLE • Kylo Ren and his Knights at campfire. Maz Kanata steals sword

INT DAY - 210 - CASTLE STAIRCASE • Walking down stairs, Maz Kanata reveals she stole it.

EXT NIGHT - 211 - MOUNTAIN SIDE • Reveal Maz Kanata on Speeder, she has the sword

INT DAY - 212 - CASTLE - UNDERGROUND CHAMBER • Finn is drawn toward the object, Rey repelled by it. She bolts
 

Surfinn

Member
She didn't use it beforehand. Everything proceeded the same with I guess BB8 holding onto the saber? Once they got to Maz (this was when Takodana was an "exotic planet" with a whole city that they met Leia in) she apparently explained the history of the saber in a much more extended flashback. Rey felt revolted by it but Finn decided to take the saber. From there I think it would've played out more or less the same.

For reference, this was once the way the Forceback played out:
Interesting. So she never touched it until then. I still think it being in the chest and Rey discovering it there, rather than it essentially being with her the whole time, evokes a more mystical/mysterious feel that compliments the forceback.
 
You got the protagonist sneaking around at the end like Luke through Cloud City, you got a contentious meeting on a bridge between a father and a son (and Kylo's arc at the end is overall an inverse of Luke's from ESB), and you got a finale that is an intercutting between an air battle trying to blow up a big ball and a ground battle/light saber duel in a forest that in execution is structured more like the ROTJ finale then it is the ANH one. Then it ends on a big ole "TO BE CONTINUED" that is more ESB than ANH.

There's also the part where our hero goes underground and has a threatening vision that scares them to death as a wrinkled old force-user tries to teach them important lessons -
which are immediately unheeded as our hero flees, only to end up in an even shittier situation at the hands of the enemy (ESB)

And the part where our heroes are on the moon trying to disable shields so that our air assault can achieve its objective while a climactic hand-to-hand battle between three people occurs. (ROTJ)
 

Ridisc

Banned
Has anyone entertained the idea that Luke is dying at all? As in he can feel himself being spent, maybe the events have taken such a toll. I mean in an actual literal sense of "Im weak, i dont have much time left"
 

Veelk

Banned
Fans would have had none of it. They would have been pining for a movie like TFA.

"Weird colored shenanigans in mah Star Wars? Of course Disney would try this garbage!"

I seriously feel that once a series (not just star wars, any major series) reaches a certain threshold of popularity, there is a segment of the population that will seek out to dislike it just because it is typical to like it. I'm not saying that makes the feeling disingenuous, people can dislike star wars naturally, I'm just saying that the temptation to be contrarian and place an emphasis on looking for flaws will become greater just out of a desire to stand out. We'd all like to treat each movie the same, but we don't exist in a bubble. You're going to have different expectations going in to see a Marvel movie vs a movie you literally know nothing about vs a movie by a director you like or hate, and so on. I actually saw the originals after the prequels, and I remember thinking "Lots of people regard this as some of the best films of all time, eh? Well, lets see if it holds up to my standards then". I didn't consciously set out to make it harder for the originals to impress me, but it's just a natural reaction to set my expectations high when that's what geek culture as a whole has told me to do when it becomes so imbedded in our culture that you can't go through life without being spoiled to Empire's twist by sheer osmosis.

So yeah, because Star Wars followed the typical Heroes Journey set up, the natural complaint was to paint it as unoriginal. If Star Wars had been more unconventional, people would have said they just wanted a normal star wars movie and not this wierd shit.

I still find it fascinating that a large bulk of people (that I talked to anyway) who complain about star wars not being original enough often, when asked to be more specific, go on to complain that it's not enough like star wars, noting that Kylo Ren wasn't a stoic badass like Vader or that Ray and Finn didn't have the bickering cadence of Luke and Han and so on.
 

Surfinn

Member
I seriously feel that once a movie reaches a certain threshold of popularity, there is a segment of the population that will seek out to dislike it just because it is typical to like it. I'm not saying that makes the feeling disingenuous, people can dislike star wars naturally, I'm just saying that the temptation to be contrarian and place an emphasis on looking for flaws will become greater just out of a desire to stand out.

So yeah, because Star Wars followed the typical Heroes Journey set up, the natural complaint was to paint it as unoriginal. If Star Wars had been more unconventional, people would have said they just wanted a normal star wars movie and not this wierd shit.

I still find it fascinating that a large bulk of people (that I talked to anyway) who complain about star wars not being original enough often, when asked to be more specific, go on to complain that it's not enough like star wars, noting that Kylo Ren wasn't a stoic badass like Vader or that Ray and Finn didn't have the bickering cadence of Luke and Han and so on.
This largely summarizes RLM
 

Ridisc

Banned
This largely summarizes RLM

Didnt they really like tfa but then spent ages shitting on it? Because they have to, because that is their bread and butter.

I dont blame them because its their right and they are in character, but id hate to have to do that.
 

sphagnum

Banned
The OT was largely devoid of politics. I think the heaviest political stuff is the Vader choke scene in ANH. Which was just enough and worked beautifully IMO.

Or did I miss the sarcasm

I'm serious, but I also think a Death Star boardroom type scene would have been good enough (at least for me). Heck, the deleted scene with Leia and Kor Sella would've been good enough for me. I get why it was deleted and I agree with that choice, but I just wish they'd been able to fit something similar in elsewhere.
 

Surfinn

Member
Didnt they really like tfa but then spent ages shitting on it? Because they have to, because that is their bread and butter.

I dont blame them because its their right and they are in character, but id hate to have to do that.
Yup. But that's not what made their review shit. Sexist undertones/diet racist stuff did, amongst other things

I'm serious, but I also think a Death Star boardroom type scene would have been good enough (at least for me). Heck, the deleted scene with Leia and Kor Sella would've been good enough for me. I get why it was deleted and I agree with that choice, but I just wish they'd been able to fit something similar in elsewhere.
I can get behind this. Maybe one scene to fill us in a little more
 
It won't be sub-par since it'll allow the heroes to get mad and wreck shit just like the fans want them to. It'll also allow them to have romantic entanglements out in the open, have kids, have friends, etc. It'll humanize the force users in a way that we haven't really seen since the OT.

Basically, these new "Jedi" will be what everyone thought the normal Jedi were before the prequels came and fucked everything up.

Hope springs eternal, but given Star Wars is now 40 years old with a three-way generational split fighting over three different trilogies, it's a tricky prospect imo.

I'm perfectly fine with Luke doing a religious reform on the Jedi, and things being less strict, but after being on TheForce.net forum during the prequels and even on here during various TFA threads, it's pretty obvious OT fans, PT fans, and TFA-era fans have wildly different opinions on what makes Star Wars Star Wars.

If I was to guess, completely killing off the Jedi and coming up with a completely new order with a brand new name, unless handled amazingly, has the potential to cause a seriously epic split.
 
You got the protagonist sneaking around at the end like Luke through Cloud City, you got a contentious meeting on a bridge between a father and a son (and Kylo's arc at the end is overall an inverse of Luke's from ESB), and you got a finale that is an intercutting between an air battle trying to blow up a big ball and a ground battle/light saber duel in a forest that in execution is structured more like the ROTJ finale then it is the ANH one. Then it ends on a big ole "TO BE CONTINUED" that is more ESB than ANH.

I feel like this is really... nothing. To each his own :p
 

Veelk

Banned
Didnt they really like tfa but then spent ages shitting on it? Because they have to, because that is their bread and butter.

I dont blame them because its their right and they are in character, but id hate to have to do that.

You know, they ironically became what they hated. Both in their prequel review and their TFA they criticize the creator's impulse to include things just because fanboys demand them rather than because they enhance the story. So, if they now write their creative product in a different way than they want to because thats what fans want and expect, and they cave into that demand despite it not being what they want to do creatively...

Well, that's just like poetry, isn't it?
 

-griffy-

Banned
I feel like this is really... nothing. To each his own :p
It's not really a knock on the movie or anything. More an illumination that the people who say it's a copy of ANH are pretty obviously parroting a talking point more so then making a genuine observation, cause if they were really digging in they would say it's more a remix of the OT overall than it is a repeat of ANH.
 
It's not really a knock on the movie or anything. More an illumination that the people who say it's a copy of ANH are pretty obviously parroting a talking point more so then making a genuine observation, cause if they were really digging in they would say it's more a remix of the OT overall than it is a repeat of ANH.

I gotcha, I guess I just have a much different idea of what a similarity is. Take the sneaking thing, Luke snuck around the Death Star in ANH as well lol

I just think it's grasping at straws. At best. I can go with some general idea that it shares things from ALL the movies more than it being a rip of something specific. TLJ is going to have Rey being trained like Luke in ESB but it'll be its own spin and tone. That's how I saw the TFA similarities.
 

Surfinn

Member
I don't think there's anything wrong with recognizing that TFA has more similarities with ANH, as the film was designed using EP4 as a backbone, but yeah, most people don't comment on the similarities between the other films because they're not actually offering up criticism, they're just repeating shallow talking points.
 

-griffy-

Banned
I gotcha, I guess I just have a much different idea of what a similarity is. Take the sneaking thing, Luke snuck around the Death Star in ANH as well lol

I just think it's grasping at straws. At best.
Yeah, but he snuck around in disguise, which was remixed into Rogue One, not TFA. Obi Wan sneaking in ANH mashed up with Luke in ROTJ is the pull for Rey sneaking.

And you need not qualify your view with me, I'm there with you and been saying that the actual meat of TFA, the substance, are new characters with new journey's/stories that we haven't actually seen in Star Wars before.
 

I edited to clarify more, whether anyone can agree is up to them I guess.

Yeah, but he snuck around in disguise, which was remixed into Rogue One, not TFA. Obi Wan sneaking in ANH mashed up with Luke in ROTJ is the pull for Rey sneaking.

These are very basic tropes to me and not exactly a direct ripoff. My disagreement is that these things mean it's all just a vapid retread. Sure there are similarities. There's similarities in all the films.
 

Surfinn

Member
The best riff on the OT was the bridge scene. It is literally the inverse of the redemption of Anakin

That's some goddamn poetry.

Probably the most brilliant scene in TFA that completely went over 99% of heads
 
Did you read my post adding to Griff's observations?

This one

All well and true, I just don't see it as being a rehash or remake or retread or whatever, but TFA just having Star Wars/basic adventure tropes. Some have even defended the prequels by saying they did new things but TPM had a lightsaber duel intercut with a space battle and sneaking/infiltrating and a desert planet with a Force prodigy.

People are still making fun of Lucas when he said it's poetic buuuuuuut I mean :p
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
So how similar you guys think this is gonna be to ESB? Part of me wants the sequel trilogy to keep with the whole "ring theory" of Lucas' movies.

I think TFA was was way too reminiscent of ANH, but I don't disagree with it following the same general pattern as that movie. Phantom Menace did the same thing but was a bit more subtle about it. I also understand the need to give people a nostalgia blanket, I just think the execution sacrificed a lot of potential creativity for TFA, and as the years go on I worry TFA won't be remembered as a great movie in its own right like ANH is. Maybe I'd have been satisfied if they'd thought up something better than StarKiller base and if Jakku wasn't Tatooine 2.
 
All well and true, I just don't see it as being a rehash or remake or retread or whatever,

Remix.

Rehash/retread carry with them inherently negative connotations that remix doesn't, which is why I think that specific term is being used here. The whole point of bringing it up isn't to complain about originality (again), it's to counter the shallowness of criticisms lobbed against the film, i.e: "It's just a dickless remake of A New Hope" This is showing that not only is it not that, but even if you wanted to focus your critical lens in that direction, it's a lot more accurate to say the film is essentially the ENTIRE ORIGINAL TRILOGY in one movie, as opposed to simply a remake of the first film. We're not bringing it up to shit on how "unoriginal" it is, we're bringing it up to point out that "It's just ANH but dickless" is a really superficial read.

I don't think it's just the recycling of basic "tropes" (ugh) or even standard monomyth shit, (although that, by nature, is going to come into play) but I think there was actually a conscious decision to break down the best parts of the classic Star Wars Trilogy, and apply them as needed to the telling of Rey's story. I can absolutely see Abrams/Kasdan doing that, especially since Kasdan wrote 2/3rds of it. I don't think that's a stretch, especially considering the primary creative force behind its making.

So how similar you guys think this is gonna be to ESB?

Johnson actually gave a pretty elegant answer to this during Celebration, I think the clip was on MTV News? Something like that.

But basically, by necessity it's going to lend itself to ESB comparisons because it's a 2nd act film. But Johnson apparently didn't pattern the film after ESB. Superficially, this is the "hero goes and trains" part of the myth, so that's going to be a similarity. But the way that happens, and the way all the other events of the film unfold, will likely be pretty different.
 

Boem

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How many trailers did TFA get before release?

Because I kinda like not knowing anything at this point. I've gotten a small, small taste of what it will look like, and maybe that's enough. Should be fun stepping into the theater for a new SW movie knowing virtually nothing. Especially if it's going to be one of the good ones, which seems likely here.
 
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