phazedplasma
Member
Atleast star wars doesnt have to deal with the origin story mandate.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
- Start date
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The temptation is too great to just let something exist without interjecting BUT THE WHOLE THING IS A SHAM AND THE WORST THING EVER. I HATE IT AND YOU'RE STUPID FOR LIKING IT!
I get it, it's anonymity, the Internet, etc. It's just so frustrating. If you see a rock next to a calm pond I guess you just have to throw it in.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You'd hope.
To be fair, I'm not hanging out in a lot of low-budget prestige pic threads, either, although I'm definitely watching/enjoying the motherfuckers. So I'm being a little unfair about that point, in general.
But on the flip, it's fairly obvious when someone's making the argument for artistic integrity to those levels and their frame of reference are simply other big-budget studio tentpoles and/or AAA video games.
Yeah, it's like there's this low-level insecurity/fear that simply stating the opinion and standing by it based on the aesthetics & emotions of the movie's text as you observed it won't be enough, and so that has to be married to some sort of institutional failing that produced the mistake, instead of just going "I didn't like that part because it seemed like they wanted me to feel X, Y, & Z, and I didn't because of A, B, & C"
It has to be "I didn't feel X, Y, & Z, because the Wizards behind the curtain are faceless watchers who consistently manipulate the audience via market forces that came about due to successes in the capitalist structure that..."
So on and so forth.
Well I really REALLY doubt that is what the Clone Wars originally were in Lucas mind when he had Obi Wan hint at them in 1976 ANH and just coming of THX1138.
I would bet he had more of a "slaves rebelling" thing in mind vs. the Republic stumbling upon Kamino clone facilities to create a million Boba Fett army that then fights endless waves of robots in mindless battles that don't really mean anything.
It could have been nice to have the conflict between Anakin vs Obi actually ignite at the topic of giving those clones/slaves freedom or not. Ah well..
Still Finn would have been a chance at the good ole "conformed non-individual gets to wake up" theme and they didn't use it.
brandonh83
Banned
Force Awakens was an origin story for Rey, Finn, Poe, BB-8, Kylo Ren-- shit nvm all that was in A New Hope.
But yeah I think they played this just right. It's not a brand new thing, it's a continuation from VI while having its own unique heroes and villains. They just, logically, used the stage already provided by the originals to move forward and it was an opportunity to flesh out the remaining characters more. That's partially where I think all the complaints that it feels too familiar stem from, but there's a reason why the opening crawl says Episode 7, and not Episode or Chapter 1.
I look at Force Awakens as the next episode after Jedi. Which is what it is. It's not much different than going to the next chapter in a book or the next episode in a television series (or maybe like the next season where it brings in a lot of new things).
Future PhaZe
Member
No way to know, but everything seems to be pointing towards Rey not reciprocating Finns interest. I do suspect Rose and Finn will end up as a couple.
I don't think Rey will ever had a romantic interest in these films, much like Luke.
Killer Queen
Banned
I'm not saying that this was Lucas' original intention but you're kind of downplaying the clone wars here, I guess it doesn't really matter in relation to your point but I do want to point out that Clones vs Droids endlessly being a waste of time kind of was the point.
Palpatine was fueling both sides of the war and was basically playing the long con so he could rise to power and create and rule over the empire. The Clone Wars was something to keep everyone else distracted and busy while he worked in the shadows and moved all the pieces so he could get what he wanted. The sepratist effort was led by Count Dooku who was doing everything under Darth Sidious's orders. Mean while Sheev Palpatine was fueling the republic to fight the sepratists.
I thought this was one of the good ideas of the prequel movies.
This is one mother of an out, given the entire argument is, Disney is hands-off with creative decisions. Here you basically agree while still trying not to back off your argument.
This is all you've been doing through this entire argument, and you have yet to present one iota of evidence in favor of your point of view.
Drop this line of argument. It's disingenuous and toxic to discussion.
You still don't seem to understand what their relationship is or how they operate or what the entire argument is even about, so I don't know why you think this is some kind of conversation ending point. No one disagrees about whether Disney owns Lucasfilm. The question is who is in creative control, and the answer is Lucasfilm. It's that way because both Disney and Lucasfilm want it that way.
That sums up the internet no?
You can't just not like a piece of media, you have to claim intellectual superiority over those who may like that piece of media.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Haha Oh, Luke. What a character!
brandonh83
Banned
By the way
I really hope this is from the film and not just a set pic that Rian took of Daisy holding her hand out during filming. Star Wars usually moves pretty fast but I could really use more slower and atmospheric stuff like this. It's just incredibly moody to me. This was my single favorite image from the film that came out of that panel, even more than anything in the trailer--- which was all fascinating, but stuff like this is my jam.
I really hope this is from the film and not just a set pic that Rian took of Daisy holding her hand out during filming. Star Wars usually moves pretty fast but I could really use more slower and atmospheric stuff like this. It's just incredibly moody to me. This was my single favorite image from the film that came out of that panel, even more than anything in the trailer--- which was all fascinating, but stuff like this is my jam.
Killer Queen
Banned
I really do like that pictureBy the way
I really hope this is from the film and not just a set pic that Rian took of Daisy holding her hand out during filming. Star Wars usually moves pretty fast but I could really use more slower and atmospheric stuff like this. It's just incredibly moody to me. This was my single favorite image from the film that came out of that panel, even more than anything in the trailer--- which was all fascinating, but stuff like this is my jam.
By the way
I really hope this is from the film and not just a set pic that Rian took of Daisy holding her hand out during filming. Star Wars usually moves pretty fast but I could really use more slower and atmospheric stuff like this. It's just incredibly moody to me. This was my single favorite image from the film that came out of that panel, even more than anything in the trailer--- which was all fascinating, but stuff like this is my jam.
It would make sense for it to be in the film since she has probably never seen rain in her life, so she'd naturally be curious about it.
brandonh83
Banned
It's atmospheric as fuck. I loved VII, but I really want this movie to be slower now that we've set the stage and introductions. I want something contemplative at times.
I tweeted Rian about it, maybe he can answer as it's something officially released.
The political scheming was good yes, but it could have easily happened with Palpatine seemingly taking the side of Clones/a Clone army that want their freedom, with Anakin as a former slave himself taking the same stance and Obi Wan taking the opposite side.
What I was getting at is that the idea that all the Clones come from the badass father of Boba Fett totally feels like a - excuse the term - "mellow Lucas" idea to give fan favorite characters more story time (and accidentially shrink the universe) vs. an idea that 1976 Lucas would have had after doing THX1138.
Finn COULD have been another stab at the THX1138 theme but he was instant JJ Abramified super charismatic bro dude instead. Not saying SW doesn't bloom when you have chemistry-central in the main trio, but maybe having one of the three be a former First Order Nazi-indoctrinated Stormtrooper that immediately turns likeable was not the best way to go about it.
By the way
I really hope this is from the film and not just a set pic that Rian took of Daisy holding her hand out during filming. Star Wars usually moves pretty fast but I could really use more slower and atmospheric stuff like this. It's just incredibly moody to me. This was my single favorite image from the film that came out of that panel, even more than anything in the trailer--- which was all fascinating, but stuff like this is my jam.
Yes. Star Wars needs more rain scenes.
the rain scene in Rogue One was beast.
Well....I feel like an idiot. Just watched the trailer again and realized that that's a bookshelf on some kind of tree wall with documents/bound books on it....and not a huge platform in the distance with light shining on it.
Edit* Granted, the first 5 times I watched it was on a phone screen.
Edit* Granted, the first 5 times I watched it was on a phone screen.
By the way
I really hope this is from the film and not just a set pic that Rian took of Daisy holding her hand out during filming. Star Wars usually moves pretty fast but I could really use more slower and atmospheric stuff like this. It's just incredibly moody to me. This was my single favorite image from the film that came out of that panel, even more than anything in the trailer--- which was all fascinating, but stuff like this is my jam.
That and her gently caressing the books or the rocks slowly lifting off the ground, seems like Rian is giving the characters a lot of breathing room.
While I love TFA, that movie was real fast, seems like things will be slowed down in this one.
The best part is Finn having somatic conditioining and being trained from birth to be a mindless killer but he acts like just a regular ol jokey Joe from the neighborhood as soon as he leaves the FO
His character makes no sense.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Rian Johnson's filmography is full of him stopping the forward momentum to look at things for a minute. I absolutely believe a moment like that would be highlighted in some way.
This probably isn't going to be the breakneck race to the finish line (neither textually or metatextually) that TFA was.
Just that shot of her watching the surf crash is probably a decent sign that we're going to slow down to appreciate the more striking moments, both visually and emotionally.
This probably isn't going to be the breakneck race to the finish line (neither textually or metatextually) that TFA was.
Just that shot of her watching the surf crash is probably a decent sign that we're going to slow down to appreciate the more striking moments, both visually and emotionally.
brandonh83
Banned
Even if this particular scene isn't in the film, I doubt there's going to be a shortage of incredibly atmospheric material on Ach-To. Rian seems like one of those guys that would opt for things like this instead of the picture moving a mile a minute, and you know, this place is very spiritual, earthly. It would be a shame if they didn't take advantage of that. This is sacred Jedi ground, or used to be. I want to feel really immersed.
LegalEagleMike
Member
I don't like rain. It's cold and wet and drenching and it gets everywhere.
I'm this close to setting up a committee to take control over the creative direction of Gaf Star Wars threads.
Based on the results of my focus tests (the focus group consisting of just me), these are the changes you can look forward to:
- No more endless looping with the Disney/Lucasfilm business
- No more 'Disney ruined the OT by giving Luke more story' talk
- No more Mary Sue nonsense
- While we're at it: no more boring box office predictions
- A general acceptance that youtube personalities don't know shit
- Internet drama and clickbait articles based misquotes will be ignored
- No more RLM memes
Instead, we'll all take the chance to shake off that regular internet cynicism, realize that we're finally getting new, well-made Star Wars movies after years of nothing/trash, and allow ourselves to stop and smell the roses for a bit.
Future discussions will be focused on happier subjects, such as questions about the afterlife in the Star Wars universe, existential debates about the identity/humanity of droids, and attempts to guess what we'll see first in one of the new movies: Gungans or Ewoks. Everyone posting in these threads will get the standard payment package as provided by Disney.
I'm setting up a deal to buy Neogaf now. Evilore will remain its figurehead, but obviously I will have complete creative control.
Based on the results of my focus tests (the focus group consisting of just me), these are the changes you can look forward to:
- No more endless looping with the Disney/Lucasfilm business
- No more 'Disney ruined the OT by giving Luke more story' talk
- No more Mary Sue nonsense
- While we're at it: no more boring box office predictions
- A general acceptance that youtube personalities don't know shit
- Internet drama and clickbait articles based misquotes will be ignored
- No more RLM memes
Instead, we'll all take the chance to shake off that regular internet cynicism, realize that we're finally getting new, well-made Star Wars movies after years of nothing/trash, and allow ourselves to stop and smell the roses for a bit.
Future discussions will be focused on happier subjects, such as questions about the afterlife in the Star Wars universe, existential debates about the identity/humanity of droids, and attempts to guess what we'll see first in one of the new movies: Gungans or Ewoks. Everyone posting in these threads will get the standard payment package as provided by Disney.
I'm setting up a deal to buy Neogaf now. Evilore will remain its figurehead, but obviously I will have complete creative control.
Killer Queen
Banned
Am I invited
JonnyDBrit
Member
Well, deserts do get rain, but it tends to be rare and brief, however heavy.
Now, if it's raining all day, you could just imagine Rey's childlike wonder, and Luke's mild, bemused confusion. Hell, one could get a decent bonding moment out of it - Luke asking why Rey is standing out in the rain so much, she explains it just never rained that much back home. He asks where she's from, she says Jakku, Luke compares it to where he grew up on Tatooine, maybe exchange some jokes on the reliability of water vaporators.
You'd probably be hardpressed finding a newer director that isn't a total dweeb who grew up playing Lightsabers.
This is a dude who, halfway through, decided to stop a crazy time travel hitman movie starring JGL and Bruce Willis for a minute to start a different, slower paced farm movie starring Emily Blunt.
I remember listening him on old Slashfilm podcasts (nearly a decade ago..jeez) and was always a big nerd.
I feel like Rogue One would have been helped if it had a couple of slower early scenes with Jyn, before she met the Rebellion. Just to give it a bit of breathing space.
The intro with all the jumping around was fun for me, because I wasn't expecting it, but some people I was with (like my girlfriend) who aren't nearly as familiar into these movies as I am were definitely a bit lost for the first part of the movie. A bit of a gentler introduction to Jyn might have helped.
I do agree that TFA was very fast. The intro with Rey on Jakku was nice, took its time, but as soon as she meets Finn the movie goes into this very fast pace, only briefly slowing down when the get to Maz. But it's pretty much a rollercoaster ride for the most part.
Which is fine - it was a bit of a welcome back party after all, and it was definitely fun - but all I'm trying to say is that I'm hoping for a couple of slower scenes as well.
You will be the Pablo Hidalgo of my new Empire.
Haha yeah....he basically came off like a Gaffer/huge SW nerd. Which is cool, it just surprised me. His films have a slickness and style that belies such nerdery.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Film directors aren't typically known for their overt alpha-male masculine signifiers.
The two that are (Bay, Snyder) are often ridiculed for it, and their presence as such is often used as a basis for criticism. Like, it's not enough to point out their shortcomings as filmmakers, those shortcomings have to be tied to their general appearance.
John Milius is a giant dweeb who bears more than a few similarities to comic book guy. Cameron is soft-voiced and chinless. Tarantino is a giant hyperactive dweeb.
I guess there's a few actor/directors who don't seem immediately dweeby (Affleck, Clooney), though.
molnizzle
Member
The root of my argument is that it's not incorrect to attribute Disney with anything Lucasfilm does. I feel like there's nothing to back off of there, unless Lucasfilm isn't in fact a subsidiary of Disney.
The evidence is Lucasfilm is owned by Disney. They are Disney.
Fair enough.
Their relationship is irrelevant. How they operate is irrelevant. Lucasfilm is owned by Disney. They are a part of Disney. Crediting Disney for anything they do (both positive and negative) is perfectly valid.
My entire point when I get in to these stupid arguments is it's really annoying to see half a thread degenerate into "No, Lucasfilm!" every time someone mentions Disney's involvement in Star Wars. If you guys want to have different arguments about how involved Disney may or may not be, fine. That's not my point here. I get into those arguments when people bring them up because I have my own ideas, but they're irrelevant to my primary point which is: It is not incorrect to name drop Disney when discussing the production of Star Wars. Repeatedly, people post in this thread (and others) that it is incorrect to do that. Those people are flat-out wrong.
JonnyDBrit
Member
This reminds me that, while I know it absolutely wouldn't have been able to fit in the film time wise or with the current structure, I kinda wish Finn and Rey had like, gotten to reach another planet on their own, and had a small adventure there as they tried to get money for supplies and shit. Would have been an excellent opportunity for them to get to know each other beyond saving each other's lives, each with their own respective issues for why they wouldn't be able to handle the galaxy at large (Rey having grown up in the same environment all her memorable life, Finn not too familiar with social contexts in general).
Killer Queen
Banned
So Bobby, what you're saying is, I still have a chance.
It was just unexpected is all. JJ Abrams is also a huge nerd, but I feel like that's obvious when you watch his films. Brick, BB and Looper feel like they come from some suave, cool ass motherfucker. It was a system shock when he actually ends up being your nerdy high school science teacher. It's all good though, based on his filmography he's going to deliver another awesome movie.
Movie directors tend to be nerds/geeks for the most part. My main concern is when this current 20-something anti-"SJW" gamergate generation of geeks weasel their way into the system. Jump ahead 10 years and things could sadly be looking pretty ugly.
Look at the Brat Pack generation of directors. Scorsese, Spielberg, Lucas, etc were all big ol' socially awkward nerds.
This reminds me that my favorite shot in the movie is Rey speeding past the long-since crashed and decrepit star destroyer. It's kind of an Abrams trademark at this point (he used almost the exact same shot in Star Trek 2009), but it's one I really dig.
brandonh83
Banned
It's funny, before last week I had a totally different mindset about Ach-To. After VII, I thought she would just meet Luke there, have a few scenes and they'd move on. But after seeing the trailer and these BTS photos (whether in the actual cut or not) its really been on my mind a lot, this location. Han said Luke went looking for the first Jedi temple so we can surmise that it's this place (if not already confirmed, I think it has been) and that alone gives so much historical weight to the story.
The way Abrams shot it and Williams scored it really gave it this earthly, spiritual feel and for whatever stupid reason it didn't occur to me until recently how utterly fantastic this place could be represented on film both story wise obviously and with the great amount of lore it could add. Before I wasn't sure how much of the story I wanted this place to take up, but now after seeing more of it and thinking on it, I think I'd be okay if Rey was there the entire fucking time with Luke with perhaps the climax being the First Order/Kylo coming there to kill them.
Look, from where I'm coming from, the fact that Rey's introductory scenes were actually there and contemplative is a goddamned miracle in of itself. Abrams likes to book it and like with Rey catching the saber and not Luke, that stuff really demonstrated some restraint and dare I say more maturity than what, at least for me, I come to expect from his stuff. I really like Abrams and have been a fan of his for a while, but there's no denying that the dude is hyper as hell.
I do think VIII's finale will be on Ach-To, imagine a First Order siege with Rey and Luke having to fend them off, and it culminating in a standoff with Kylo-- but this time with Luke present. And I think this shot from the trailer with the Falcon is above Ach-To.
Looking at the film industry's past (or really any industry), there have always been racist/sexist attitudes in there. That's nothing new. People seem to be slowly getting more aware of it. People like that have been there in the past, people like that will be there in the future. But in the end, I do believe this kind of social progress will keep going upwards. Even with the occasional setback (see Trump).
While a ton of weird people are getting angry on the internet, new generations are growing up where women can be the jedi in the leading role, where black men can be the the leading co-star, where casts don't have to be primarily or all-white. It's slow, but non-white writers and stories are becoming more prominent, and diversity is increasing. Bit by bit. That will have an effect.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
If you don't think there is some kind of committee/entity/brain-trust within Lucasfilm that had previously decided the general direction and some important story beats for Episodes 8 and 9 while they were still working on the script for episode 7, I don't know what to tell you.
Rian has freedom, likely quite a bit, but I'm also sure there were also previously decided upon plot points he still had to hit in some way, or the ideas he pitched matched the direction/feel they wanted to go in.
I'm sure both Kathleen Kennedy/LucasFilms/etc are willing to go different directions, but I'm also sure they are very aware of certain core elements that make Star Wars what it is, and I'm not entirely convinced they truly have the resolve or the vision to completely axe iconic elements of series.
There has been no creative decisions in TFA, Rogue One, or any of the announced movies that have telegraphed LucasFilms willingness to actually mess with the formula to the degree of completely removing something like the Jedi and replacing it with something else truly original.
Given they barely replaced the Rebellion and the Empire with anything truly different, gave us a Darth Vader obsessed Darth Vader-lite, still have the Millennium Falcon running around, and will be cranking out prequel movies tied to the original series for the rest of the decade, to me they have not telegraphed any real resolve for major creative changes.
I hope I'm wrong though, and I have no problem admitting I could be.
Future PhaZe
Member
One thing I'm concerned about is not feeling like the new cast feels "ready" to carry the weight of Star Wars moving forward. To be fair, it's still early, and there's two films worth of development to go, but there's something...missing so far. I think it's the lack of a strong third character. Finn and Rey are great, but need to be better and will be better with more cooking, but Poe seems to be more like a Lando tiered character more than someone meant to be the third pillar on a trio of new characters. I'm sure we'll see more of Poe moving forward, but I think the lack of focus on him in TFA kind of hints at him being more of a side character as compared to Rey and Finn. Ben Solo might be exactly what I'm looking for as this third strong character, but there's no telling if he'll survive this trilogy.
brandonh83
Banned
Mission Impossible 3 was a badass movie
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