WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
You claim you watched Clone Wars but say he had 0 motivations? What?
You sure you didn't just watch that fight on YouTube?
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
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You sure you didn't just watch that fight on YouTube?
You realize they point blank bring up the central element of the chosen one prophecy in the trailer right? The Balance of the Force. That is what the entire prophecy is about, the one to bring balance to the Force. Rey says she senses it in the trailer.
Oh and you are ignoring the fact they brought back prequel actors to reprise their roles in Rogue One. Not to mention two prequel planets were in Rogue One.
Balance of the Force is a pure prequel concept never mentioned once in the OT. And it is right there in the TLJ trailer.
The entire thread that goes through the entire saga films is desiring to bring balance to the Force. The Jedi believed Anakin would in the prequels. Yoda & Obi-Wan believed Luke would do it in the OT. And now from what we can see in the trailer the hope rests with Rey.
No body. Just an explosion. Which would explain Snoke's scarring.
Follow the space money.
The chosen one isn't a trope that isn't able to work, but it's on the negative side in it's utility.
It's usually just an excuse for contrived actions without proper character motivation.
"Why are you fighting X" "Because that's what I'm supposed to do according to the Cosmic Power of Vagueness"
It's usually just a translation of "Because the script says so."
It's usually just an excuse for contrived actions without proper character motivation.
"Why are you fighting X" "Because that's what I'm supposed to do according to the Cosmic Power of Vagueness"
It's usually just a translation of "Because the script says so."
He's an alien and we have no idea what his internal anatomy is like plus lightsabers cauterize wounds instantly meaning he wouldn't bleed out. Maul surviving in my opinion is no less ridiculous than Anakin surviving having three appendages cut off and getting all of his flesh burnt off.
It's not like Star Wars isn't ridiculous already. It's a universe were a 3 foot tall Muppet can move a space ship with his mind and humans can apparently make precision shots that a computer can't even do just by forcing-harder.
brandonh83
Banned
For me it is. Palpatine recovered Anakin shortly after and you can use the cauterization excuse on the limbs. Anakin received near-immediate medical treatment. Who went down into that shaft after Maul and gave him med treatment on his cut in fucking half body? Nobody, because the stupid explanation was that his
rage kept him alive
Maul may not be human but he had the exact same body shape as a human so unless his midsection was miraculously vacant, I just don't see him surviving all that.
I know Star Wars is ridiculous, but Maul living through that absolutely does not work for me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People will, probably, at some point, come to recognize (likely right before everything gets rebooted in 2037, heh) that it's all just Star Wars, and not Star Wars + Those Movies Over There That A Generation of Grown Men Are Psychologically Incapable of Putting Behind Them In Any Sort of Rational Manner.
Like, this fictional universe is liberally sampling design elements, story beats, designs, from all eras of the fiction that have been deemed canon. It's just "Star Wars" to the people making it. The fact three of the movies aren't very good movies doesn't mean their elements are somehow tainted and unsalvageable in new stories.
A whole bunch of your favorite aspects of superhero storytelling are sourced directly to some of the fucking dogshittiest writing you've ever clapped eyes on. Doesn't mean the ideas that got coughed up aren't worthy of reclaiming/polishing/re-use.
Nobody at Lucasfilm is ducking the prequels, and if things from those films don't get a lot of mention in the sequel trilogy, it's likely due to the fact these movies are set almost a whole century beyond them, with an entire galactic civil war between them, and a new one currently breaking out.
Like, how often did you hear people bringing up World War I during Vietnam, right?
Like, this fictional universe is liberally sampling design elements, story beats, designs, from all eras of the fiction that have been deemed canon. It's just "Star Wars" to the people making it. The fact three of the movies aren't very good movies doesn't mean their elements are somehow tainted and unsalvageable in new stories.
A whole bunch of your favorite aspects of superhero storytelling are sourced directly to some of the fucking dogshittiest writing you've ever clapped eyes on. Doesn't mean the ideas that got coughed up aren't worthy of reclaiming/polishing/re-use.
Nobody at Lucasfilm is ducking the prequels, and if things from those films don't get a lot of mention in the sequel trilogy, it's likely due to the fact these movies are set almost a whole century beyond them, with an entire galactic civil war between them, and a new one currently breaking out.
Like, how often did you hear people bringing up World War I during Vietnam, right?
Unfortunately it was some years ago. I slighty remember about another guy similar to him. He was going crazy and there was magic of some sort ( with strange witches) ... Didn't like that arc at all.
( I know he wanted to kill Obi Wan but i was referring to the first movie when i was talking about his (0 ) motivations. He was just a filler villain in the movie. )
Yeah my bad. Mixed up the movie and the show.
Is this really a thing we're supposed to come away with with these movies though? Like were we supposed to question the Jedi way? I can't tell if it's something Lucas really wanted us to examine because the writing was just so all over the place. I recall Yoda at one point saying that the Jedi have become "arrogant and too sure of themselves" but other than him verbally stating this, I didn't see any actually evidence of this dramatically.
Lifejumper
Member
jedi order symbol I believe.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yoda says something along these lines a couple times.
It's not just subtext. It's basically right up front: the smartest/best Jedi in the order thinks they're full of themselves and fucking up, and they can't snap out of it.
The Clones were mentioned in Rogue One (along with Organa). They're not against prequel stuff but it's been so far removed that they probably won't just because there's no story need.
Of all the crappy Snoke theories, Snoke being Maul is the only one I could kind of entertain because he's the one thing I think endures from the Prequels for the general masses. They may not know his name, but they know his face. Also, I just want to hear Duel of the Fates one last time
I should've clarified what i meant by the Prequels since i was just referring to stuff like The Chosen One prophecy and midichlorians. But when did TFA reference the Prequels? I definitely missed it.
And I wasn't really talking about about the animated shows. But sure, sure, they're considered canon.
I wonder if we'll see any character from the Prequels or the animated shows in this new trilogy.
Stop responding so easily if you think i'm concern trolling. But you do you, breh.
Maybe that's why Yoda just taught Luke the good shit and none of their ol' bullshit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrmJbDI0ClU
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Great post, this point in particular. Even if you're a person who absolutely hates the prequels, acting as if there needs to be an outright ban on any material just because it's associated with that trilogy is absurd. There's so much material to build off of/reuse/remix/repurpose/etc. that it doesn't make any sense to throw it all out wholesale no matter how much long talks about sand make you angry.
I'm sure this idea was expanded on in supplemental materials but I don't think it was conveyed well in the films at all. Show me don't tell me
Watch Rogue One. Prequel characters played by their prequel actors and prequel planets.
Also in TFA: Lor San Tekka brought up the chosen one/balance of the force prophecy and Hux mentioned the Clone Army.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Like, you can't even commit to fully owning your troll. Everything about this schtick is half-assed.
Well, "show don't tell" was a problem with the Prequels in general, but there was more than a few instances of (clumsy) telling going on to that end.
brandonh83
Banned
I find that to be exactly the case, yes. You can easily question the "Jedi way" through what happened with Anakin. They wouldn't let him go visit his fucking mom from time to time? Really? They don't allow relationships? It was highly questionable and if there were more humanity allowed through the Jedi code none of that stupid shit would have happened.
Anakin made a kneejerk decision to attack Windu when he thought Palpatine was the only chance for Padme and his kid to survive. He couldn't approach the Jedi themselves about it because for some reason they had to keep their marriage a secret and when he went to Yoda, you know what the little green shitbooger said? "Mourn them do not, miss them do not. Learn to let go." Which translates into "you're a Jedi, so while you're human with human emotions, don't worry about people you care about dying cuz... Jedi... stuff"
Then at the end of 3, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that they're going to commune with Qui-Gon through the Force. Then in the originals Yoda and Obi-Wan are more like what Qui-Gon was like. I mean all of that shit feels blatantly obvious to me. That's the core story of the prequels and why Anakin fell to the dark side: the Jedi, their dumb rules and ignorance toward humanity.
And now, we have Luke who was trying to create a new order, albeit supposedly one with the insight Yoda, Kenobi and Qui-Gon gained after the events of Order 66 and while he may have been running it better or whatever, something bad happened and now he's presumably out to get more answers by locating the very first Jedi temple that predated the prequels by thousands of years. So I see this as a direct continuation of that theme that Lucas established in the prequels which was tantamount to Anakin's fall.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
My mind's fuzzy, but I got the sense that gunship conversation between Ben, Yoda, & Mace was supposed to be a big "We're fucking all of this up, aren't we" moment.
Mace at some point flat out says "we need to inform someone that we suck at this now."
Heeeeeeeeelll no.
Mace at some point flat out says "we need to inform someone that we suck at this now."
Heeeeeeeeelll no.
I think it's pretty important that the Jedi Order's weird rules about love are what put distance between Anakin and the Council and open a space for Palpatine to get close to him. It's true that the Jedi were right about the one really important thing -- it was a mistake to train Anakin -- but Anakin turns against them mostly because they're jerks.
There's also a pretty stark contrast between old Jedi and Luke in the OT. On a few occasions Luke ignores Jedi wisdom and things turn out pretty well (Cloud City and redeeming Vader). He's not passionless and, though it's creepy in retrospect, there's really not any indication that it would be inappropriate for him to have a romantic relationship. Just in the context of the OT this is not very meaningful but if you take Yoda as representing the Jedi Council of the PT it's a strong repudiation of their philosophy.
Anakin fell to the dark side because of his emotional attachments and insecurities and these qualities were thoroughly preyed upon and exploited by Palpatine. The Jedi were 100% correct about him
brandonh83
Banned
Oh yeah. That's even where Yoda mentions the prophecy could've been misinterpreted. I think Yoda was definitely onto the idea that maybe they were imperfect but it was too late.
So you don't think that if the Jedi allowed relationships or allowed for Anakin to visit his mom or if he was able to get counseling from the Jedi council that he'd have still went to the dark side?
It's as much their faults as anything. They were keeping him from visiting his mother periodically (or hell, even freeing her from slavery-- why couldn't the fucking guardians of peace and justice have taken Shmi from slavery?) which was the point where Anakin said at her grave that he wouldn't let that happen again. He then started having similar dreams but about Padme. And she's pregnant! But they had to keep all this secret because the Jedi order didn't allow relationships.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I think the whole Father, Daughter and Son thing in TCW was a little much. Too on the nose and it took away some of the mysticism.
shira
Member
That was during AotC after Obi Wan reported back from Kamino about the Clone army. Yoda stated that they were blind if they could not detect it and Mace suggested informing the Senate that their ability to use the Force had diminished.
Here's a possibility. I dunno if it makes sense in the context of the PT, but here goes:
Yoda said the prophecy could have been misread. Maybe the entire CONCEPT was misread, not the person?
I wonder if it's possible that the prophecy really refers to the Jedi harboring and guiding these "awakenings" to combat the evil of the dark side, infinitely. When Luke blows up the death star in ESB, there is an awakening, or "disturbance" shot through the entire force itself, similar to how Rey creates an awakening through her actions as well. Throughout the PT, OT and ST, it seems like there are specific "awakenings" that happen and that it's the Jedi's responsibility to harness and guide them (heroes who cause these awakenings) to ensure that there is peace and prosperity throughout the galaxy (for the most part).
The old Jedi thought there was just one person who they don't have to do shit with.. they're just able to bring balance to the force automatically, simply by being a super powerful and pure Jedi. Maybe the part they misunderstood was that they must influence and guide multiple people along their paths.. that it's a constant struggle that's bigger than one all powerful being. Maybe that's where they went wrong and why the failed Anakin so horribly (not to say he didn't ultimately choose his path). They thought him existing as a Jedi was just good enough.
I dunno if that makes complete sense or not. Just thinking of ways they could incorporate the canon established in the PT in meaningful and interesting ways.
Yoda said the prophecy could have been misread. Maybe the entire CONCEPT was misread, not the person?
I wonder if it's possible that the prophecy really refers to the Jedi harboring and guiding these "awakenings" to combat the evil of the dark side, infinitely. When Luke blows up the death star in ESB, there is an awakening, or "disturbance" shot through the entire force itself, similar to how Rey creates an awakening through her actions as well. Throughout the PT, OT and ST, it seems like there are specific "awakenings" that happen and that it's the Jedi's responsibility to harness and guide them (heroes who cause these awakenings) to ensure that there is peace and prosperity throughout the galaxy (for the most part).
The old Jedi thought there was just one person who they don't have to do shit with.. they're just able to bring balance to the force automatically, simply by being a super powerful and pure Jedi. Maybe the part they misunderstood was that they must influence and guide multiple people along their paths.. that it's a constant struggle that's bigger than one all powerful being. Maybe that's where they went wrong and why the failed Anakin so horribly (not to say he didn't ultimately choose his path). They thought him existing as a Jedi was just good enough.
I dunno if that makes complete sense or not. Just thinking of ways they could incorporate the canon established in the PT in meaningful and interesting ways.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I still don't get that shit thoroughly. It's weird as hell. I like how weird it is, and how dreamlike it all is, but it's like... It's a really weird attempt to come up with a Star Wars equivalent of The Silmarillion and...
...naaaaaaahhhhh
Wich was worse. Obi-Wan's rat tail in TPM or his mullet in Attack of the Clones? Both were awful.
I am pretty sure Filoni mentioned at one point he was initially completely baffled by it when Lucas came up with the concept and wasn't sure Lucas was being serious at first.
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah I didn't like that either. Felt super fan-fictiony. Just like bringing Maul back.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Unlikely, because it's been 53 years in-fiction since the end of RotS, and most of the prequel characters died in the prequels anyway. That's really the only reasons why though. Anthology films though, definitely a good chance. We've already seen Jimmy Smits reprise his role as Bail Organs in Rogue One, as well as Genevieve O'Reilly returning as Mon Mothma (she was cast for the role in Sith, but the scenes were ultimately deleted). And we also got a character from the PT era that was only in Clone Wars (Saw).
They were only correct because he was too old. He had already experienced universal human emotions like love and friendship. When the heroes say you can experience the universal human emotion of Love, then they're the ones at fault. Anakin had issues but more issues that Palpatine exploited.
Everyone's basically saying it better than me, but yeah. Luke defies these teachings at times during the OT and that's part of what makes him a hero.
They also had a moment in ROTS talking about how blind and fucked there were. Mace & Yoda had a scene about how shitty they were in both films.
So Lucas at least tried to beat it over the audiences head the Jedi's were a bunch of fuck-ups in the prequels. Whether the execution was well done is another story.
brandonh83
Banned
kunonabi
Member
Anakin brought balance back to the force in RotJ. If Rey does it it's only because Luke mucked things up.
DoctorFling
Member
Yeah I feel the same. On the one hand midichlorians are too scientific and on the other Mortis is too mystical and fantasy like. Great SW is the balance in the middle, the Bendu so to speak.
brandonh83
Banned
Future PhaZe
Member
Anakin gets too much credit imo. Palpatine was too skilled is what it came down to.
He had space jesus hair so it was good in my books.
Can we all agree ROTS Obi-Wan is peak Obi-Wan in style?
brandonh83
Banned
^^damn it Lucas why did you cut that scene
Anyway. It's okay.
Space Jesus Luke got this shit under control.
Anyway. It's okay.
Space Jesus Luke got this shit under control.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I legit love Luke's look now. So good.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Man the designs in that film have aged like shitThis is the face of a man who is planning to kill everyone who allowed that haircut.
brandonh83
Banned
Hey man. I got no hate for little padawan Anakin.
This was me at the end of my first screening when I saw Luke
This was me at the end of my first screening when I saw Luke
I never get emotional about Star Wars, but that ending legit hits my emotions in ways I don't consciously understand. I got really teary-eyed at my first showing and every viewing since. There's just something about that final crescendo.Hey man. I got no hate for little padawan Anakin.
This was me at the end of my first screening when I saw Luke
Then you are lost. 🙈
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