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[cartographer]

The issue with the concept of grey Jedi is that it was sort of handled a bunch of different ways in the EU and ended up getting perverted enough that it didn't mean anything. KotOR was one of the biggest offenders here, showing the Force as a spectrum between light and dark and all that. Game mechanic became lore for a lot of people.

1. There is no light side, like someone said above. There is the the Force, and there is the dark side. Star Wars is pretty straightforward in this way.

2. Grey Jedi were inherently on the side of the Force (or tried to be). What made them "grey" was not agreeing with the Order about everything. Qui-Gon is (or was at one point) the best example of a Grey Jedi in canon, and he was on the side of the Force. Qui-Gon did things or believed things that were risky or atypical, but that was mostly it.

3. And then you had Grey Jedi being used for any Force user that wasn't strictly Jedi or obviously Sith, and the term lost even more meaning.

Stuff like this is why the old EU was pushed to the side. Was a struggle to stay internally consistent on almost any going at one point.

Edit: Sorry for the tangent. This is just one of my least favorite things about the EU.

 

[The Librarian]

Or the eps 8 will focus on Luke, The Last Jedi.

If the Jedi is done, the title would be The Last Of The Jedi.

You do realize Rey is the lede and hero of this trilogy, right? Episode 8 will focus on her. Luke will only be there to enhance her story.

 

[Killer Queen]

Or meaning Luke is merely the only/last Jedi at the time Episode 8 takes place.

There is very little chance that the committee that dictates these movie's stories has the stones to end the Jedi, and even if they did, it wouldn't be longer than a one movie fake out. The word "Jedi" has too much pop culture and marketing pull for them to ever retire it fully.

Disney trying to reinvent the wheel is absolutely counter to the point of them buying ultra-established mega-franchises in the first place.

The Last of the Jedi would imply multiple. Rian Johnson said in his mind its singular and that the last Jedi is Luke. It's even stated in EP7 that Luke is the last Jedi.

Now keep that in mind when you hear Luke say "The only truth I know is, its time for the Jedi to end"
Meaning he's not going to train a new Jedi. The fact that Kathleen Kennedy has said that Rian Johnson isn't afraid to add complexity to the star wars universe makes me firmly believe that the next two films (Both stories written by Johnson) are going to change or expand on a lot of the fundamentals of the star wars universe, the force in particular and that the Sith and the Jedi are pretty much done, but we'll see the forming of new orders.

and that's all that needs to be said really.
This series has been going on 40 years now, they plan to have it go on for 40 more. They need to reinvent the wheel and you're making a lot of assumptions here. There is no committee that dictates what stories are being told. Rian Johnson wrote the stories of Episode 8 and 9 himself, so he has the keys to the future of the franchise right now, and the head of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy has already said he's not afraid to take Star Wars in new and different directions and add complexity. You can't do the same thing forever. Episodes 8 and 9 will change a lot of what we know about Star Wars.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I'm sorry, did Lucasfilm buy Lucasfilm from George Disney?

I don't get what you're doing here. But...

There is very little chance that the committee that dictates these movie's stories has the stones to end the Jedi, and even if they did, it wouldn't be longer than a one movie fake out. The word "Jedi" has too much pop culture and marketing pull for them to ever retire it fully.

Disney trying to reinvent the wheel is absolutely counter to the point of them buying ultra-established mega-franchises in the first place.

... Disney is not calling the creative shots. Lucasfilm is. Or more accurately, the teams of writers and directors actually working on these projects, followed by the Lucasfilm Story Group, all hired by Kathleen Kennedy. And these writers and directors are allowed to reinvent the wheel.

Disney doesn't give a shit as long as these keep making money.

The only thing those flashbacks showed were memories attached to Anakin's lightsaber. They've shown you can attach force memories to objects in Rebels. Why would Anakin's lightsaber have a memory of her as a child unless she knew someone connected to it? My guess is she's a nobody but she did train with Luke as a child. Why she's so important that she had to be dropped off or had her memory wiped, that's what I'm interested in. Maybe she's related to the first Jedi in history and Luke didn't want her going to the dark side because she's so powerful?

I mean the only thing saying that these memories all explicitly have to be tied to the lightsaber is you. Just because that's possible doesn't mean it has to be the case. I saw it more as an illumination of Rey's path.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You're doing good works here, Rabbit

 

[Copenap]

... Disney is not calling the creative shots. Lucasfilm is. Or more accurately, the teams of writers and directors actually working on these projects, followed by the Lucasfilm Story Group, all hired by Kathleen Kennedy. And these writers and directors are allowed to reinvent the wheel.

Disney doesn't give a shit as long as these keep making money.

This not how large studios work, especially regarding such prestigious IPs. Ypu cannot honestly believe that.

 

[molnizzle]

Disney doesn't give a shit as long as these keep making money.

I'm sure there are a few Disney execs who made an argument that there's more money to be made from the word "Jedi" than without it. Whether their arguments won out or not is another story.

It's stupid to act like Lucasfilm exists in a vacuum. If Kathleen Kennedy decided to make Episode IX with an all-Ewok CG cast, Disney would veto the fuck out of that. At the end of the day Kathleen is still an employee with a boss. Lucasfilm is still a subsidiary company.

 

[Killer Queen]

Bobby wanna chime in here and drop some knawledge.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Why are we all okay with acknowledging Kevin Feige and the folks he hires have creative control over Marvel Studios, but not the same for Kathy and her folks at LFL?

 

[Jacce]

This not how large studios work, especially regarding such prestigious IPs. Ypu cannot honestly believe that.

It's not a Disney IP. It's a Lucasfilm IP and Lucasfilm is a subsidiary of Disney corporate. Lucasfilm manages the IP not Disney.

Do you think the execs meddle into ESPN's programing? That's a valuable IP as well.

Bob Iger is famous for letting his subsidaries do their own thing and remaining hands off. It is a major reason why Lucas sold them to Disney, because Disney would let Lucasfilm continue to do their own thing. Like they do with ESPN, Pixar, Marvel Studios, etc.

 

[molnizzle]

Why are we all okay with acknowledging Kevin Feige and the folks he hires have creative control over Marvel Studios, but not the same for Kathy and her folks at LFL?

We're not.

Bob Iger is famous for letting his subsidaries do their own thing and remaining hands off.

He's also been quoted as saying he has final approval on major decisions, like which Anthology films get the green light. Lucasfilm is Disney now—and that's not a bad thing. It's stupid to keep having these same arguments over semantics.

Disney owns it all now, the end.

 

[Jacce]

We're not.

Explain the endless posts every single day of people claiming Disney makes Star Wars films vs no one ever claiming Disney makes the Marvel films.

They are seen as Marvel ran and managed IPs and Marvel films. Not Disney. No one goes around blaming "Disney" for a Marvel Comics event they don't like or blame Disney because they didn't like Iron Fist Season 1.

However people constantly blame/credit Disney for everything Star Wars though.

 

[RSTEIN]

Do you think the execs meddle into ESPN's programing? That's a valuable IP as well.

Yes they do. Cost cutting commands come from the top. Moves to buy assets that compete directly with ESPN (like MLB tech) come from the top. That impacts programming.

If Lucasfilm suddenly started to shit bricks then you bet the C suite would be sharpening knives. But until then Lucasfilm has tons of autonomy.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

This not how large studios work, especially regarding such prestigious IPs. Ypu cannot honestly believe that.

Good studios like Disney? It's exactly how they work.

 

[Sapiens]

The Disney denial is astounding.

 

[PeskyToaster]

We're not.



He's also been quoted as saying he has final approval on major decisions, like which Anthology films get the green light. Lucasfilm is Disney now—and that's not a bad thing. It's stupid to keep having these same arguments over semantics.

Disney owns it all now, the end.

People aren't talking about signing 150 million checks to greenlight a movie when they talk about Disney lording over Star Wars. That part is their job. They are talking about Disney controlling story and dialogue which isn't happening.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

. But until then Lucasfilm has tons of autonomy.

But I thought this wasn't the case? Which is it?

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Like, sure. If Kathleen Kennedy walks into a Disney board meeting and says "we're doing a rom-com about the creator of blue milk. We need $250 million and the best release date you have" they'd probably step in. But that also wouldn't happen so to begin with so using as proof Disney is controlling everything is absurd.

Look at Kathy's filmography. I'm pretty sure Disney is fine with with letting one of the most prolific producers in history have control of the franchise.

She's already made them $3 BILLION in gross across two films.

 

[The Librarian]

Why are we all okay with acknowledging Kevin Feige and the folks he hires have creative control over Marvel Studios, but not the same for Kathy and her folks at LFL?

Because Kathy and the people in charge of LucasFilm story group are female.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Bobby wanna chime in here and drop some knawledge.

Nah, you guys got it covered pretty decently.

It's funny how "semantics" is only ever a bad thing when someone finds themselves on the incorrect side of the meanings they're debating.

Yes, Disney owns Lucasfilm
Yes, there's some oversight Iger (and more closely, Alan Horn) have over what Lucasfilm is doing.
No, they don't intervene/interfere unless asked to weigh in by Lucasfilm

Basically, Lucasfilm decides what it wants to do. Lucasfilm plans what it wants to do. Lucasfilm can (and does) pick the brains of Horn/Iger at times (why wouldn't you) but the relationship isn't combative, or confrontational, or even really taking the form of a traditional power struggle as most discussions on this note tend to bend (note how often these examples on the part of "DISNEY RUNS EVERYTHING" stances tend to run towards hypotheticals where Disney has to swoop in to save Lucasfilm from itself).

Lucas chose to sell Lucasfilm to Disney because he knew Disney would leave Lucasfilm alone, for the most part, and do their best to help the studio continue on the way forward as best they could.

Disney bought Lucasfilm because it's a very valuable property and Disney has a pretty decent history of leaving their already-successful acquisitions the fuck alone to continue being successful.

Fans have problems swallowing all this because they're more often than not inclined to buy into whatever narrative allows them the simplest way towards rhetorical superiority. So if you can frame the relationship between the two as MOUSE EARS RUN THE WORLD + the cracking of a whip, why wouldn't you. It's very, very convenient. If the movies are good, you get to shit on the people at Lucasfilm for being inept and the faceless executives (nobody seems to know who anyone at Disney is except for Bob Iger) have saved the day with their magical formulas we're all too stupid to thoroughly understand. If the movies are shit, it's because the meddling corporate executives at Disney are just manhandling the living shit out of the poor Lucasfilm underdogs who just want to make a good movie.

It's a simple narrative, but flexible enough to be bent in either direction to serve the jaded, cynical, and exhausted pose many modern-day fans love to strike.

It's a false narrative, but that obviously doesn't matter.

 

[molnizzle]

Explain the endless posts every single day of people claiming Disney makes Star Wars films vs no one ever claiming Disney makes the Marvel films.

They're not as prolific as you think they are. You just latch on to the ones you see because you're so emotionally invested in the Star Wars brand.

They are seen as Marvel ran and managed IPs and Marvel films. Not Disney.

...and Marvel is owned by Disney. Marvel ran and managed means Disney ran and managed. Disney is just understandably happy with Feige's output thus far so he's given a lot of autonomy (as is Kennedy). That autonomy is Disney's prerogative, however. At the end of the day it's still their IP under their management. Both Marvel and Lucasfilm are just subsidiaries.

The Last of Us is still a Sory first party title despite being developed by Naughty Dog. Sony still heard the pitch and greenlit the idea. Sony was still the one who decided to relent and let ND put Ellie on the cover when the execs wanted focus on Joel. Naughty Dog has tons of autonomy and freedom—for as long as Sony decides they do. They're still an owned subsidiary. That just business.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I also find that a lot of these skewed/bent narratives that oversimplify the relationship between the two studios is borne from experience over on gaming side where a similar (yet different) oversimplified understanding of how development/publishing in gaming works is nurtured for many of the same cynical/jaded reasons. So people just figure entertainment = entertainment and transfer those misconceptions 1 to 1 from gaming to film.

The industries are very dissimilar in many ways, and even if they weren't, the way individual film studios are run differ from company to company. It's not so monolithic that you can just go "well, games do it like this, so movies must do it like this" and be confident in your assumptions.

Persisting in looking at how the creative stuff in a work of entertainment is created solely through the prism of power struggle tends to lead to a very skewed perception of how these things get made. It's not asking "how are people coming up with their ideas and executing them," it's asking "Who here is strongest and how often do they flex"

 

[Jacce]

Nah, you guys got it covered pretty decently.

It's funny how "semantics" is only ever a bad thing when someone finds themselves on the incorrect side of the meanings they're debating.

Yes, Disney owns Lucasfilm
Yes, there's some oversight Iger (and more closely, Alan Horn) have over what Lucasfilm is doing.
No, they don't intervene/interfere unless asked to weigh in by Lucasfilm

Basically, Lucasfilm decides what it wants to do. Lucasfilm plans what it wants to do. Lucasfilm can (and does) pick the brains of Horn/Iger at times (why wouldn't you) but the relationship isn't combative, or confrontational, or even really taking the form of a traditional power struggle as most discussions on this note tend to bend (note how often these examples on the part of "DISNEY RUNS EVERYTHING" stances tend to run towards hypotheticals where Disney has to swoop in to save Lucasfilm from itself).

Lucas chose to sell Lucasfilm to Disney because he knew Disney would leave Lucasfilm alone, for the most part, and do their best to help the studio continue on the way forward as best they could.

Disney bought Lucasfilm because it's a very valuable property and Disney has a pretty decent history of leaving their already-successful acquisitions the fuck alone to continue being successful.

Fans have problems swallowing all this because they're more often than not inclined to buy into whatever narrative allows them the simplest way towards rhetorical superiority. So if you can frame the relationship between the two as MOUSE EARS RUN THE WORLD + the cracking of a whip, why wouldn't you. It's very, very convenient. If the movies are good, you get to shit on the people at Lucasfilm for being inept and the faceless executives (nobody seems to know who anyone at Disney is except for Bob Iger) have saved the day with their magical formulas we're all too stupid to thoroughly understand. If the movies are shit, it's because the meddling corporate executives at Disney are just manhandling the living shit out of the poor Lucasfilm underdogs who just want to make a good movie.

It's a simple narrative, but flexible enough to be bent in either direction to serve the jaded, cynical, and exhausted pose many modern-day fans love to strike.

It's a false narrative, but that obviously doesn't matter.

You are the hero we need, not the one we deserve. Bravo.

 

[molnizzle]

Yes, Disney owns Lucasfilm
Yes, there's some oversight Iger (and more closely, Alan Horn) have over what Lucasfilm is doing.
No, they don't intervene/interfere unless asked to weigh in by Lucasfilm

You have no way of knowing this. You're projecting what you want to be true because you want to believe that your beloved Lucasfilm isn't controlled by a media conglomerate. You're literally in denial.

Bobby, you know a lot about Star Wars lore but you're dead fucking wrong about all of this. Disney has full control over Lucasfilm. The extent to which they decide to exercise that control is in constant flux, but it's still their decision in the end.

Lucasfilm is Disney
Marvel is Disney
ABC is Disney
ESPN is Disney

etc.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You have no way of knowing this.

Yes, I do.

I'm confused as to why you think this information is so hard to come by?

Most of it's been published by reputable media outlets.

edit: also, Lucasfilm, before the sale, was controlled by a media conglomerate. Unless you're going to argue that Lucas somehow didn't run the company as such?

Because he did.

 

[Killer Queen]

You have no way of knowing this. You're projecting what you want to be true because you want to believe that your beloved Lucasfilm isn't controlled by a media conglomerate. You're literally in denial.

Bobby, you know a lot about Star Wars lore but you're dead fucking wrong about all of this. Disney has full control over Lucasfilm. The extent to which they decide to exercise that control is in constant flux, but it's still their decision in the end.

Lucasfilm is Disney
Marvel is Disney
ABC is Disney
ESPN is Disney

etc.

Bobby somewhat works in and is involved in the film industry. He has far more understanding of what he's talking about than you do clearly.

 

[phazedplasma]

DISNEY KILLED THE JEDI

 

[The Librarian]

You have no way of knowing this. You're projecting what you want to be true because you want to believe that your beloved Lucasfilm isn't controlled by a media conglomerate. You're literally in denial.

Bobby, you know a lot about Star Wars lore but you're dead fucking wrong about all of this. Disney has full control over Lucasfilm. The extent to which they decide to exercise that control is in constant flux, but it's still their decision in the end.

Lucasfilm is Disney
Marvel is Disney
ABC is Disney
ESPN is Disney

etc.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

[Jacce]

You have no way of knowing this. You're projecting what you want to be true because you want to believe that your beloved Lucasfilm isn't controlled by a media conglomerate. You're literally in denial.

Bobby, you know a lot about Star Wars lore but you're dead fucking wrong about all of this. Disney has full control over Lucasfilm. The extent to which they decide to exercise that control is in constant flux, but it's still their decision in the end.

Lucasfilm is Disney
Marvel is Disney
ABC is Disney
ESPN is Disney

etc.

Which is why we have reports about Disney being hands off. George Lucas stating Disney's policy of being hands off was a central element in selling the company. Kennedy saying she and she alone green lights the movies....etc.

All evidence runs counter to your point.

 

[molnizzle]

Yes, I do.

I'm confused as to why you think this information is so hard to come by?

It's information that wouldn't be publicly revealed by current employees. Kathleen Kennedy would never talk shit and complain about the company signing her checks. All you have to go on is PR speak about how great the working relationship is between the two companies. And we all know that PR interviews are a bastion of factual information.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. You don't have access to the email chains, the phone conversations, the high level meetings. We just have PR, and you're swallowing it without question.

All we know for sure is that Disney owns Lucasfilm, and Kathleen Kennedy has a job for as long as Bob Iger says she does. Their relationship might be good or bad, but regardless, Bob has the final say. It's his goddamn company. He's just letting Kathleen run it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Bobby somewhat works in and is involved in the film industry.

To clarify, I've never been hired by a major film studio to do anything for them on any of their productions, not as an actor, or a writer, or a editor or key grip or gaffer or anything like that. I've been involved with reporting on their projects from time to time, and know of/talk to people who have worked in those industries in various capabilities, and they have definitely provided some very valuable insight.

There are people here, on this board, who are vastly more familiar with the inner-workings of the film industry due to their current employment within it. They're not just pop-culture critics or armchair executives. They actually have, or still do, draw a paycheck from that industry.

But large chunks of the shit I say regarding this matter are things gleaned from access to materials that anyone here could read because it's all public reporting.

You can shit on me for having taken the time to read all that stuff and have it committed to memory (and sometimes those memories are fuzzy and fogged up or flat out wrong even, at which point people are very happy to correct my dumb ass, and I'm happy to be corrected and be less dumb) but the fact I actually seek it out so that I (hopefully) know what I'm talking about before I start talking shouldn't be seen as some sort of crazy stance to hold.

A lot of this shit is just floating out there. Anyone can read it and know it. Simply because you haven't sought it out, choosing instead the much more easy route of parroting back someone else's analysis (or even easier, your own assumptions based on the narrative's ease-of-use) isn't proof that the shit doesn't exist.

 

[RSTEIN]

Let's put it this way.

You're performing cunnilingus. You're in control of your movements. The motion, the moisture, tickling vs pressure, what your hands are doing.

Your partner is enjoying themselves. You can hear that she is. She's not directing you. She's saying keep going baby. You have earned the right to be autonomous.

Every once in a while she may say a little faster or a little lower or not that many fingers. But these are suggestions intended to improve your performance--they do not take away your autonomy.

You could also ask permission to do things that could spice things up. She may say no. But just because she says no doesn't mean you're not in charge. After all, it's your job to make her happy. You need to work within the confines she has established. All she just wants is you to keep doing what you're doing, to focus all of your efforts on what's making her happy. Maybe one day she'll entertain some more adventurous ideas, but not today.

But don't worry, you're in control of everything, within the rules clearly established and clearly defined, and as long as it keeps making her happy.

This is Disney and Lucasfilm.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Let's put it this way.

You're performing cunnilingus.

You just lost 85% of this board's readers

All we know for sure

The "we" part is where we keep tripping up, Mol, because you need to be using the singular pronoun instead.

 

[Kalentan]

I don't think Lucasfilm is going to kill off the Jedi. Let's be honest, no matter what they come as a replacement will never be as popular as the Jedi.

Odds are the title, while truly meaning just Luke, will simply mean, the Last (of this kind of) Jedi.

 

[The Librarian]

I don't think Lucasfilm is going to kill off the Jedi. Let's be honest, no matter what they come as a replacement will never be as popular as the Jedi.

Odds are the title, while truly meaning just Luke, will simply mean, the Last (of this kind of) Jedi.

They killed off the Sith pretty easily.

 

[TheMagician]

Just some short points so that it's clear for those who are unsure:

Disney owns Star Wars.

Disney owns Lucasfilm.

Lucasfilm IS Disney - the same way that Retro Studios and Metroid Prime are Nintendo.

Lucasfilm is now just a name of a Disney studio rather than its own entity. This Disney studio helps to develop the new Star Wars movies.

Disney decide what films are approved, what scripts are given the green light and if any changes are needed to be made to any film so that it fits in with their vision. The directors and writers of any Star Wars film are selected by Disney executives. The directors then direct the Lucasfilm studio to get the films made.

 

[GhaleonEB]

You have no way of knowing this. You're projecting what you want to be true because you want to believe that your beloved Lucasfilm isn't controlled by a media conglomerate. You're literally in denial.

Bobby, you know a lot about Star Wars lore but you're dead fucking wrong about all of this. Disney has full control over Lucasfilm. The extent to which they decide to exercise that control is in constant flux, but it's still their decision in the end.

Lucasfilm is Disney
Marvel is Disney
ABC is Disney
ESPN is Disney

etc.

You are actually demonstrating exactly what Bobby was talking about. And as he said, this not some untested hypothesis. There's a lot of reporting and other evidence on his side, not to mention the films themselves. Yes, Disney owns Lucasfilm. No, they're not micromanaging the movies or direction they're going in with the story. What they're doing is bringing their tremendous resources to bear to support Lucasfilm do their thing. And on their own schedule, it might be added.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah. To repeat, because it might have been missed:

Persisting in looking at how a work of entertainment is created solely through the prism of power struggle tends to lead to a very skewed perception of how these things get made. It's not asking "how are people coming up with their ideas and executing them," it's asking "Who here is strongest and how often do they flex"

 

[Killer Queen]

I don't think Lucasfilm is going to kill off the Jedi. Let's be honest, no matter what they come as a replacement will never be as popular as the Jedi.

Odds are the title, while truly meaning just Luke, will simply mean, the Last (of this kind of) Jedi.

Star Wars isn't going to stop existing any time soon. The only reason that name is so popular is because we're 40 years out from the introduction of those terms. Should Star Wars last another 40 years you think whatever new term they come up with wont be just as popular, provided Star Wars continues to be where it is (Which I don't see why it wouldn't be if Marvel and DC can last as long as they do.)

That's not really an excuse. In addition to that, saying there wont be any more jedi going forward isn't going to erase the history of star wars and the Jedi up until this point. It's literally only a title. They're not asking you to say all Jedi ever are no longer Jedi, just that going forward, in the future of this universe, there will be no Jedi.

its not a convoluted concept

 

[molnizzle]

The "we" part is where we keep tripping up, Mol, because you need to be using the singular pronoun instead.

No, because information "gleaned from access to materials that anyone here could read because it's all public reporting" cannot be presented as absolute fact—especially if said information comes form promotional material designed to sell film tickets.

You know for sure that Disney owns Lucasfilm. You know for sure the legality of how a parent company holds power over a subsidiary. Beyond that, you've got advertisements. Not facts.

It's not asking "how are people coming up with their ideas and executing them," it's asking "Who here is strongest and how often do they flex"

Capitalism in a nutshell, yes.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

No

Then we're done! Thanks for your time.

 

[Kalentan]

Star Wars isn't going to stop existing any time soon. The only reason that name is so popular is because we're 40 years out from the introduction of those terms. Should Star Wars last another 40 years you think whatever new term they come up with wont be just as popular, provided Star Wars continues to be where it is (Which I don't see why it wouldn't be if Marvel and DC can last as long as they do.)

That's not really an excuse. In addition to that, saying there wont be any more jedi going forward isn't going to erase the history of star wars and the Jedi up until this point. It's literally only a title. They're not asking you to say all Jedi ever are no longer Jedi, just that going forward, in the future of this universe, there will be no Jedi.

its not a convoluted concept

It's not convoluted but it's also just dumb.

Who gives a shit about not-Jedi. If they're basically Jedi all but in name, why not just call them that? If looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Or if we take what they might be trying to do, if it talks like a Jedi, fights like a Jedi, and looks like a Jedi, then it's a not-Jedi. Which is just dumb.

 

[Elandyll]

It's not a Disney IP. It's a Lucasfilm IP and Lucasfilm is a subsidiary of Disney corporate. Lucasfilm manages the IP not Disney.

Do you think the execs meddle into ESPN's programing? That's a valuable IP as well.

Bob Iger is famous for letting his subsidaries do their own thing and remaining hands off. It is a major reason why Lucas sold them to Disney, because Disney would let Lucasfilm continue to do their own thing. Like they do with ESPN, Pixar, Marvel Studios, etc.

Aye.

As long as the buck is made (and does it ever), the buck stops with Kathleen Kennedy. I'm pretty sure that the negociations between Lucas and Disney covered that too.

 

[-griffy-]

Let's use Rogue One as an example. Did Bob Iger decide they needed to make a man on a mission war movie and it needed to have a sarcastic robot and a badass Darth Vader scene at the end? No, that's not what happened.

What happened is a guy at ILM is like "Hey, I've got an idea for a movie about the crew who stole the Death Star plans" and he presented it to Kathy, and Kathy is like "Yeah, this is a good idea" so Lucasfilm starts to develop that idea. Then Kathy goes to Bob and is like "Hey, we want to make this movie, that cool?" and Bob is like "Yeah, sounds good." Then Kathy hires a bunch of people to make that movie and in the process of making their own independent decisions on how to make it, they present stuff to their bosses at Disney and get notes, which is to be expected.

Some monolithic, all controlling Disney entity isn't dictating each and every story beat in the way they are often getting blamed for in these threads. Instead writers and directors on the film are like "Man, we kind of want to kill everyone but surely Disney won't go for that." And Kathy is like "No, you can totally do that" and Bob is like "Yeah if that's what make sense go for it." Those minute decisions are being made by Lucasfilm. If you don't like that Darth Vader says "Don't choke on your aspirations" that's not Mickey Mouses's fault, that's Lucasfilm's fault.

 

[Killer Queen]

It's not convoluted but it's also just dumb.

Who gives a shit about not-Jedi. If they're basically Jedi all but in name, why not just call them that? If looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Have you seen the movie? No, then how can you make that assesment?
We don't know what they'll be like, and what fundamental differences they have.

That's like saying "Who cares about the differences between Christianity and Catholocism, do they follow the bible, do they worship jesus? they're all the same"
Jedi is a religion, there are fundamental differences in idealism and teachings between sects, even ones that follow similar scriptures and the same gods in real life. It's not just as simple as "Well, it looks like a duck".

It's also the same thing as saying "Who cares about the sith? they use lightsabers and use the force, they're Jedi!" when we all know its not the same.

and who cares about Not-Jedi? Probably a lot of people after these films come out and the next trilogy starts, because it will be a fundamental part of star wars the same way Jedi are.

 

[Interfectum]

Let's use Rogue One as an example. Did Bob Iger decide they needed to make a man on a mission war movie and it needed to have a sarcastic robot and a badass Darth Vader scene at the end? No, that's not what happened.

What happened is a guy at ILM is like "Hey, I've got an idea for a movie about the crew who stole the Death Star plans" and he presented it to Kathy, and Kathy is like "Yeah, this is a good idea" so Lucasfilm starts to develop that idea. Then Kathy goes to Bob and is like "Hey, we want to make this movie, that cool?" and Bob is like "Yeah, sounds good." Then Kathy hires a bunch of people to make that movie and in the process of making their own independent decisions on how to make it, they present stuff to their bosses at Disney and get notes, which is to be expected.

Some monolithic, all controlling Disney entity isn't dictating each and every story beat in the way they are often getting blamed for in these threads. Instead writers and directors on the film are like "Man, we kind of want to kill everyone but surely Disney won't go for that." And Kathy is like "No, you can totally do that" and Bob is like "Yeah if that's what make sense go for it." Those minute decisions are being made by Lucasfilm. If you don't like that Darth Vader says "Don't choke on your aspirations" that's not Mickey Mouses's fault, that's Lucasfilm's fault.

Yup. I'd say the only time Disney would step in and begin meddling is if these projects start bombing and/or are sub-par in quality. But if Lucasfilm keeps bringing the goods I'm not sure why anyone would think "Disney execs" are dictating what SW can and can't do.

 

[Surfinn]

Seems simple enough to me. Ever heard the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Lucas sold Lucasfilm and SW to who he got the best deal out of to ensure the films wouldn't be fucked with by executives to simply try and milk it.

Disney doesn't have to do shit. Because time was taken to select the right people to make quality movies. Top Disney executives trust those in charge of the creative process.

I think Rian Johnson writing and directing an entire film is more solid evidence of this. If they just wanted a safe, shallow milk, he's not the most financially secure option. If you actually read up on what he's doing, you'll see that he's taking big risks.

The problem some people have, including myself, and Bobby already stated it.. Is that using the name Disney green lights people to incorrectly judge the films based on cynical, biased, and knee-jerk reactions. It pushes a narrative that is not only wrong but detects from meaningful discourse.

 

[PeskyToaster]

It's information that wouldn't be publicly revealed by current employees. Kathleen Kennedy would never talk shit and complain about the company signing her checks. All you have to go on is PR speak about how great the working relationship is between the two companies. And we all know that PR interviews are a bastion of factual information.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. You don't have access to the email chains, the phone conversations, the high level meetings. We just have PR, and you're swallowing it without question.

All we know for sure is that Disney owns Lucasfilm, and Kathleen Kennedy has a job for as long as Bob Iger says she does. Their relationship might be good or bad, but regardless, Bob has the final say. It's his goddamn company. He's just letting Kathleen run it.

It's not his company. It's a publicly traded company.

 

[Jarmel]

Why are people even hung up on Disney to begin with?

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I'm not even sure where the plot went there for a while. Something about Jedi cunnilingus. Can you do that with the Force?

Anyway

I don't know about the denial narrative that popped up, but I can say for certain I'm not in denial Disney bought LFL and that LFL is Now by extension Disney. In fact, the day it was announced I literally thought to myself "holy shit, how had I never considered this before?", followed by being happy about the purchase for the literal reasons George picked Disney and Bobby has now thoroughly brought up - they know how to let their subsidiaries flourish on their own.