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Steam Controller/Machines/Link hands-on impressions. Final reviews: Nov 10

Nzyme32

Member
I wouldn't trust reviewers to give reliable impressions with a brand new input method.

The Steam Controller will simultaneously require a lot of practice and configuration to feel as good as decades-old input methods, but ultimately should be able to do more than any prior device.

It's not so much about trusting reviewers, but looking at what experience they had with it, how much time, did they explore any settings at all, what mode did they use etc. The OP contains everything from "loved it" to "unplayable". Meanwhile the people with the longest experience such as the original testers seemingly have the most favourable opinions.

A great example is Ars complaint about being unable to use the dpad and saying it's too big, clearly having not tried the settings to reduce it to simple rocking motions that others favoured. The same is true with Gamespots complaints about finding the centre of the pad for analogue stick emulation, yet not even attempting to try the dynamic stick emulation. Meanwhile several of the reviews (or rather first impressions) and those from devs / previous testers have none of these issues
 
Yes, it does

Krej, I've got someone wh'd like to ask a few things of you, mainly related to performance in fighting games. He's specifically mentioned micro-dashing in Street Fighter, and how consistently you can perform the "raging storm motion" in KoF98UM. I'm not a fighting guy, so I don't know if that's enough info for you, but that's what he wants to know.
 

trillbo

Member
Just got this email:

The first Steam Link and Steam Controller pre-order units are scheduled to arrive over the next few days.

We're eager to hear your feedback as we continue to make changes and improvements leading up to the full retail launch on November 10th. For the next few weeks, we recommend that you opt in to the Steam client beta (through the System settings panel in the Big Picture UI) so that you'll be running the most current fixes and functionality.

We'll be keeping an eye on forums everywhere, but we've also set up a contact email address for everyone on the team: SteamHardwareFeedback@valvesoftware.com. Whether you're having a great time or running into issues, we want to know.

Thank you

They're watching.
 

cyress8

Banned
@Krejlooc - do you also have a steam link? Would love to hear your impression on it. I already use a couple intel stick to steam stream to the bed room and living room. However, if I can get an even smoother experience, I'm hopping on the steam link express.
 
I get the impression so far anyway that some reviewers arent going to do much customising or literally playing with different settings.Basically reviewing an out of the box product and no futher.Mine is due tomorrow i shall give it the full works.
 

Draft

Member
Seems not great! Ok sure maybe these reviewers don't understand all the nuances. Is that their fault or valves?
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Krej, I've got someone wh'd like to ask a few things of you, mainly related to performance in fighting games. He's specifically mentioned micro-dashing in Street Fighter, and how consistently you can perform the "raging storm motion" in KoF98UM. I'm not a fighting guy, so I don't know if that's enough info for you, but that's what he wants to know.

Well, I can FADC in SFIV with the steam controller, which is a more advanced play tactic. My buddy button mashed and did about as well as you'd expect button mashing, but I am much better at fighting games than he is.

I don't play as geese normally, so I avoid the raging storm motion, but, as I'm much more of an SNK guy than a SF guy, the rocking motions are all pretty good. Like I said, I could do Ryo's dragon punch and Shippuu Kyaku without problem, and individually those two moves have pieces of the raging storm motion in them.

It's not the rolling motions that would give people problems, it would be hitting the diagonal inputs reliably. What I do is set my haptic feedback to high, then begin by walking forward (witth click required on). Then, I rock my thumb down, until I feel it "click." This click is actually the edge when it starts registering down as well as forward. If I do this, then I know I am hitting diagonally down every time.
 
regarding the Link and audio:

Author here. There's no audio jack on the Steam Controller which is a bit shit, but the Link has three USB slots. I imagine you could plug a wireless USB headset (or a wired with a really long cable) into it and it would relay your audio through, although I haven't tried it yet. Alternatively, if your PC is close enough (mine is) you can keep the headset plugged straight into your PC and use it wirelessly in the next room over.

I'll try plugging in an A50 to the Link and see what happens.

EDIT: And I was wrong. Steam does not properly route audio through the headset when plugged into the Link. There is however a setting under "Voice" that says "Detect Audio Devices" which currently pops up a screen saying "Coming soon!" basically. Valve's said there are a lot of Big Picture updates coming in the next month so maybe that's on the way?

Alternatively, I can plug the A50 into my receiver and route the audio through the headset that way, using the Optical feed. No chat in that case though. Let me know if you have any other questions!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/3ovq0e/handson_valves_50_steam_link_is_the_game/cw0vqsc
 

Interfectum

Member
Seems not great! Ok sure maybe these reviewers don't understand all the nuances. Is that their fault or valves?

I'm guessing a little of both. Considering this is a big change from traditional controls and it's somewhat dependent on user created configurations it's going to be a bit of a slow burn. Not many games journos have the patience for that.
 
I knew this controller wasn't going to get good press on release, just because of how different it is and that few journos will give it time before writing an article about it.

Excited for my preorder in November. Also getting Steam Link.
 
Krejlooc, how do you feel about playing action/arcade/fps games on smartphones and tablet devices using touch? Are you able to get by, think its fine, hate it with a passion, etc?
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Called it. A touchpad is nowhere near a decent replacement for a physical thumbstick.

Should still be neat for certain traditional mouse-based games though.
 
Called it. A touchpad is nowhere near a decent replacement for a physical thumbstick.

Should still be neat for certain traditional mouse-based games though.

What's weird is that everyone who used the controller for more than week appears to have the opposite opinion...

Well, I can FADC in SFIV with the steam controller, which is a more advanced play tactic. My buddy button mashed and did about as well as you'd expect button mashing, but I am much better at fighting games than he is.

I don't play as geese normally, so I avoid the raging storm motion, but, as I'm much more of an SNK guy than a SF guy, the rocking motions are all pretty good. Like I said, I could do Ryo's dragon punch and Shippuu Kyaku without problem, and individually those two moves have pieces of the raging storm motion in them.

It's not the rolling motions that would give people problems, it would be hitting the diagonal inputs reliably. What I do is set my haptic feedback to high, then begin by walking forward (witth click required on). Then, I rock my thumb down, until I feel it "click." This click is actually the edge when it starts registering down as well as forward. If I do this, then I know I am hitting diagonally down every time.


Thank you! I'll let you know if he has any other questions.
 

w0s

Member
It's not so much about trusting reviewers, but looking at what experience they had with it, how much time, did they explore any settings at all, what mode did they use etc. The OP contains everything from "loved it" to "unplayable". Meanwhile the people with the longest experience such as the original testers seemingly have the most favourable opinions.

A great example is Ars complaint about being unable to use the dpad and saying it's too big, clearly having not tried the settings to reduce it to simple rocking motions that others favoured. The same is true with Gamespots complaints about finding the centre of the pad for analogue stick emulation, yet not even attempting to try the dynamic stick emulation. Meanwhile several of the reviews (or rather first impressions) and those from devs / previous testers have none of these issues


So what you are saying is that unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting it in working order than it will be a negatvie experience? Kinda sucks to be honest. I don't want to work on my controller but the flexibility would be nice.
 

Tenebrous

Member
Called it. A touchpad is nowhere near a decent replacement for a physical thumbstick.

Should still be neat for certain traditional mouse-based games though.

Depends on the game, I reckon. For Fifa and third person action games like MGR or Dark Souls, there's absolutely no reason to use this controller.

For anything that actually requires reasonable aim (any FPS that doesn't have aim assist), this pad should piss over a dual stick controller.

So what you are saying is that unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting it in working order than it will be a negatvie experience? Kinda sucks to be honest. I don't want to work on my controller but the flexibility would be nice.

This mindset is what might hold the controller back in the minds of many. You were willing to spend time with analog sticks coming from a dpad in the 90s (unless you're a teen now), right? What's the difference here?
 

Krejlooc

Banned
I get the impression so far anyway that some reviewers arent going to do much customising or literally playing with different settings.Basically reviewing an out of the box product and no futher.Mine is due tomorrow i shall give it the full works.

So, I dunno if I'm allowed to say this or not, but what has been going on is that, in the interest of trying to make the controller "plug and play" out of the box, testers have been going through every game on steam and checking to see if the controller works based on a heirarchy. First, we test to see if the game supports gamepad + mouse, and if it does, we default to that. If it doesn't, then we see if it'll support gamepad + joystick camera. if it does, we default to that. If it doesn't, then we go to Generic gamepad. If that works, we default to that, otherwise, knowing that it doesn't support gamepad in any real capacity, we create a custom KBM config.

The reason being is that dealing with mismatching button prompts is, initially, much harder for people to deal with. So, take for instance Metal Gear Solid V - it doesn't support gamepad + mouse right now. But, if you make the steam controller identify as an xbox pad, it works without any real problems - the on-screen prompts match the controller, and you can technically do everything you could possibly want to do in the game with the controller. In other words, it "works" but it's not optimal. When playing MGSV with the default, "recommended" controller scheme, the right pad is set to analog stick emulation, using joystick camera. What that means is when you touch the right pad, where you touched it becomes the deadzone, and as you move your thumb away from this deadzone, it mimics pulling an analog stick in those directions. So if you pull right a little bit and leave your thumb there, it'll act like you're tilting the analog stick just a little bit and slowly turn the camera until you "let go." If you pull to the right a lot, it'll act like you're tilting the stick a lot.

And, as I said, the heirarchy we're following means that this controller configuration takes precedence, and is actually the "recommended" controller scheme at the moment.

By contrast, I have a custom controller configuration for MGSV - it's listed under "Krejlooc's Action A bindings." This binding, rather than treating the steam controller like an xbox 360 controller, is purely mouse and keyboard. I've set up the controller so that the keyboard buttons are in the right spot so that, if you've played on an xbox controller, you know where everything is. I.E. Y is mount, Left bumper is whistle, right bumper is binoculars, etc. But they're being handled with keyboard commands, so that, when you approach your horse, it'll tell you to press the "E" key instead of the Y button.

Despite the mismatching button prompts, in this configuration, the right pad acts like a mouse. Meaning you manually select which position you are looking. If you set your thumb down and move to the right and hold it there, it doesn't keep turning right. Instead, it moves to the right every "click" of the pad and holds there until you move your thumb.

The vast, vast majority of "recommended" controller configurations for the steam controller out of the box are the Xbox 360 emulation setups. This is by design. We have been going through, game by game, setting them to work like this. Most of the time, when I have set a controller configuration to work like this, I have also spent some time creating a "Krejlooc" binding that works with buttons in the same spot, but using KBM mode.

I'm reading these reviews, and it's very obvious what is happening - these reviewers are launching games and using the default, recommended controller schemes. In fact, if a game has a recommended controller scheme at all, the steam controller will never even prompt you to change the settings. Like, you launch a game and boom - it automatically selects that xbox 360 emulation setting for you.

Rule of thumb - if you see my bindings on steam, they are the xbox 360 controller layout, only adapted to work with KBM instead of an analog stick.

Valve, eventually, wants a recommended or official controller scheme for every game on steam, which is a great goal. Given the manpower required to do that, they couldn't realistically expect every game to have personalized settings on day one. but they wanted at least a majority of games to have a recommended setting. Again, I dunno if I'll get in trouble for revealing this, but I felt it was necessary to point out because it is obviously affecting these reviews, and explaining why it's being done this way at the moment helps understand the mentality, and how the controller will evolve in the upcoming weeks. The way the controller works "out of the box" today is not the way it'll work "out of the box" in 6 months, and heck, it's not the way it worked "out of the box" 3 weeks ago.
 

Unai

Member
So what you are saying is that unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting it in working order than it will be a negatvie experience? Kinda sucks to be honest. I don't want to work on my controller but the flexibility would be nice.

I don't think the time is to get it to work, but to learn again how to controle the game with a new input device instead of one you are using for the past 20 years.
 
I figured the Steam Controller would getting eaten up critically as it does require a learning curve, and from reading game reviews over the past decade, journalists are either incapable of adjusting to learning curves or unwilling.

Yup. I'm still going to order one as soon as it becomes available where I live. The Steam Controller just makes too much sense to not be good.
 

Widge

Member
The Gamespot video is damning, basically a solution in search of a problem.

For FPS games:
-Not precise enough to replace a mouse
-Not precise enough to replace a thumbstick.

Well the problem is I game on a TV in a front room and cannot play anything that requires a mouse. Wonder if they went in to this with the perspective that all PC gamers are guys tethered to a desk.

I would hope this is a solution because a keyboard and mouse isn't.
 

Naite

Member
Kinda interested in getting one. I like tinkering with different dpads for fighting games, but it's typically either by physically modding the contact points or the way I position my thumb. The size and positioning of the face buttons might be a bit of concern for me though.
 

jeffers

Member
The Gamespot video is damning, basically a solution in search of a problem.

For FPS games:
-Not precise enough to replace a mouse
-Not precise enough to replace a thumbstick.

I've deliberately avoided FPS games on console because twinstick is garbage :p so I'm lucky in the regard I dont have to retrain myself from twinsticks.
 
So what you are saying is that unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting it in working order than it will be a negatvie experience? Kinda sucks to be honest. I don't want to work on my controller but the flexibility would be nice.

There are community templates with control schemes already set up. All you have to do is select it and off you go.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Also, to further clarify about the "recommended" default mappings - they are being overridden as devs supply their own, default recommended mappings.

Super Meat Boy, as an example, now has an official binding.

And the default, recommended bindings are separate from the community bindings. So the top used community binding may be radically different from the default, recommending binding.

One major feature I've asked for after doing loads of bindings is the ability to import and export bindings from one game to another. Someone mentioned about tweaking every game - if you can export and import bindings from other games, this would really cut down on the work it takes to make a new binding. Especially if you've got your sensitivity just right.
 
So what you are saying is that unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting it in working order than it will be a negatvie experience? Kinda sucks to be honest. I don't want to work on my controller but the flexibility would be nice.

How good were you with dual analog sticks and mouse/keyboard after a week?
 
So I got it in the post today and have had 3 or 4 hours with it this evening. And so far, I'm impressed.

There's definitely a learning curve, so far I'm finding the face buttons feel too close together and I'm hitting the wrong ones. However I'm pretty sure this is due to years of muscle memory from 360 and DS4 placements, so I've been mainly going with a combo of analog stick, right haptic and triggers. Mapping to the back buttons is very very intuitive, maybe moreso than using the face ones.

But its responsive, and very accurate when you start to get a feel for it. It's going to take a little time, which i expected and so should anyone else. It's a different way of doing things, its not M&K and its not a 360 controller, its its own thing.

BTW only piece of weirdness I've found so far is that Assassins Creed 2 refuses to recognize the right pad in any config. It's bought on Steam but uses uPlay so I'm wondering if this might be some more patented Ubisoft jank?

Quick question Krejllooc: is there a method to download any of your bindings? There's very few available in the setup menu so far, early days and all.
 
What I am wondering about (and its kind of a small thing) is if the touchpads are any good for games that require button mashing of any sort?
 

Krejlooc

Banned
BTW only piece of weirdness I've found so far is that Assassins Creed 2 refuses to recognize the right pad in any config. It's bought on Steam but uses uPlay so I'm wondering if this might be some more patented Ubisoft jank?

I set the config personally for that game, but something might have broken in the last update. I'll try it again later tonight.

Quick question Krejllooc: is there a method to download any of your bindings? There's very few available in the setup menu so far, early days and all.

Nope, you just have to get lucky and see if my name is in a config. There are others who have really good configs, though. 8 bit cerebus has some good configs.

I threw out the idea of having steam controller curators, where you could follow people whose configs you've liked and know they work similar to how you prefer, so who knows if that'll be a thing going forward. It seems in line with most of valve's views on web 2.0 and crowdsourcing, at least.
 

Nzyme32

Member
So what you are saying is that unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting it in working order than it will be a negatvie experience? Kinda sucks to be honest. I don't want to work on my controller but the flexibility would be nice.

Well no, that's more to do with the fact that currently users have to make their own bindings or find what works best for them. Some people will like a dynamic joystick emulation, some will like a standard analogue, some will like the trackball emulation and all at different sensitivities to suit tastes.

Some of the most important customisations are completely ignored by some, which is a big issue shown when comparing the positive and negative reviews (or rather impressions) that all skip over some of the customisations. This is shown very clearly by the comparison of what dev testers have been saying these past weeks vs some now.

Once you know what you like for a genre, it's obviously a whole lot easier. That's the nature of having such a wildly customisable controller and an interface that isn't looking for a one size fits all solution that you got used to over many years.

What I am wondering about (and its kind of a small thing) is if the touchpads are any good for games that require button mashing of any sort?

This is something I want to find out. The pads seem a lot more "clicky" than an average button and look as if they might need a little more force. So it would be interesting to see what that ends up like.
 
Updated OP a bit and asked for a title change to reflect the final review dates. Though with Gaffers and other people getting it in their hands this week, it might not matter in the end.
 

Lork

Member
Krejlooc, when you use the controller for "D-Pad" style inputs in fighting games, platformers and so on, do you set it to require you to depress the pad like a button, or is it more like a "touch" based style?
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Krejlooc, when you use the controller for "D-Pad" style inputs in fighting games, platformers and so on, do you set it to require you to depress the pad like a button, or is it more like a "touch" based style?

always, always "require click." That's the name of the option. If you don't, it winds up feeling just like an iphone touchscreen. No bueno. The old prototypes didn't have the "requires click" option and that's where so many of the negative reviews stemmed from.

As far as I'm concerned, "requires click" is what makes the d-pad work, period.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I'm going to "manage game - configure controller" in BPM and then browse configs but there's nothing there to select other than the standard ones, ie nothing with any name attached to it. Am I checking in the wrong place or are there no community configs up yet?

always, always "require click." That's the name of the option. If you don't, it winds up feeling just like an iphone touchscreen. No bueno. The old prototypes didn't have the "requires click" option and that's where so many of the negative reviews stemmed from.

As far as I'm concerned, "requires click" is what makes the d-pad work, period.

I second that emotion!
 

Kysen

Member
I've deliberately avoided FPS games on console because twinstick is garbage :p so I'm lucky in the regard I dont have to retrain myself from twinsticks.

FPS definitely plays best with a M+Kb but it looks like this is similar to playing with a trackpad. Sure you can move the crosshairs around but for finite or snappy movement you can forget it. Just the notion of having to swipe multiple times to turn around sounds terrible.
 

Unai

Member
FPS definitely plays best with a M+Kb but it looks like this is similar to playing with a trackpad. Sure you can move the crosshairs around but for finite or snappy movement you can forget it. Just the notion of having to swipe multiple times to turn around sounds terrible.

Not really necessary if emulating a trackball, though.

It works exactly like this when you set it up like that:

Well hopefully its like kid icarus on 3ds, and you just gotta do a faster spin to turn further and the clicking will help with learning that
 

jeffers

Member
FPS definitely plays best with a M+Kb but it looks like this is similar to playing with a trackpad. Sure you can move the crosshairs around but for finite or snappy movement you can forget it. Just the notion of having to swipe multiple times to turn around sounds terrible.

Well hopefully its like kid icarus on 3ds, and you just gotta do a faster spin to turn further and the clicking will help with learning that
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Thanks for the reply.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I'm going to "manage game - configure controller" in BPM and then browse configs but there's nothing there to select other than the standard ones, ie nothing with any name attached to it. Am I checking in the wrong place or are there no community configs up yet?

That should be where you'll see other bindings. Do you have MGSV? Check that one, I know my Action A bindings are the top ones in the community section.
 
That should be where you'll see other bindings. Do you have MGSV? Check that one, I know my Action A bindings are the top ones in the community section.

Found it, thanks. There were no community sections in the games I'd checked so far, I keep forgetting that the actual release isn't until tomorrow so the bindings are only on the drip at the moment.
 
That MGSV camera spin video has raised my hype so much. I've wished for years that someone would shove a trackball into a traditional controller and this seems close enough (and realistic) to that dream. I grew up playing FPS games with a thumb trackball so I'm hoping to feel right at home.
 

MNC

Member
I still use this daily:

logitech-wireless-trackball-m570-gallery-1.png


Even with gaming. I'm super psyched about the controller. Hope the trackball mode is as good as a real trackball.
 
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