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Steam Greenlight: 1000 games and counting, more Greenlit every few weeks

Alex

Member
You should have to have videos, a fully functioning demo AND at least 100 bucks as well as general plans for the game (pricing, release windows if accepted, etc). This thing is weighed down with more garbage than I've ever seen. I was expecting a little more control than this when Valve announced it. I figured we'd be voting on more together projects that they don't know how to place or are bogged down on submission either. Instead, the bulk of it is like a giant laundry list of things Apple has rejected from their App store.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
I'm not against any of the alternate submissions, but I really think this is still based on the faulty premise that Greenlight means Valve wants hobbyist games. They don't. They want commercial games. They want games that will sell many thousand copies.

The developers who don't think they can make 5+ figures on Steam with their game shouldn't be submitting. The developers who don't have any confidence that their Greenlight submission will get on Steam shouldn't be submitting. That's the stakes here. Greenlight wasn't introduced as a way to loosen the quality restrictions to enter Steam, but rather to get the same quality and polish of games but give Valve and easier time and help erode their team's blind spots.

I empathize that it's a bit too early to tell how many of the games currently on the service will end up on Steam, how many votes will be needed, what kind of exposure, community feedback, etc.--this is an argument to wait a few months to find out.

The stuff about the negative feedback is valid, Steam trolls suck, but some of it has already been addressed. The balance of voting isn't visible anymore and the down-vote option is now a "No thanks, but good luck" option.

I think the fee is designed to do the following things:
- Deter pranksters and jokesters
- Deter legitimate fans of games submitting commercial games because they don't understand the purpose of the service
- Third, and probably most importantly from Valve's POV, deter well-meaning developers developing actual games that just aren't up to Steam's standards of professionalism--IE to send the message that Steam is not intended to be an open service, it's intended to be a commercial, curated service.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them adjust, lower, refund, or drop the fee as time goes on, but I think at this point they're looking for a few weeks or a few months to gather data to figure out more about how the service is going to work going forward. I guess the moral of the story might have been that a slim beta with a few thousand helpful, articulate, and friendly users might have been a better move than throwing open the floodgates, but I guess they felt that they needed to see how the final product would be responded to.

Pretty much agree with everything. I wanted to be one of the devs who puts up $100 for someone who needs it, but you know, I honestly can't justify doing so. I'd rather give them money for a Kickstarter than a Steam Greenlight pass. Or for an iOS license or any other license they could actually use.


Desura doesn't surprise me--there's never been any indication to me that anyone uses Desura, period. It seems like a fantasy service propped up by some foolish investors in the company rather than a real service with real users. To me, the Indie Royale tie-in is probably about as much use as the service gets, and there's no kidding that many, maybe even most of the Indie Royale buyers only play the games with Steam codes. I might be wrong, but I've never seen any indication. It's like a bizarro ghost town world.

I never thought of it that way. Bwahaha
 

HoosTrax

Member
Did anyone else here who is a member of the GreenLight Steam group get a friend invite from this indie dev "Golgoth Studios" (maker of Toki and Magical Drop V)? I'm confused at whether they're sending out spam invites through that group somehow.

Edit: I'm not the only one apparently, just saw this on the Toki page:
13336713.jpg

Bad form, and has the potential to backfire on them.
 
When they removed the stat, the top pages were around 200k

So less than 1/2 of 1 percent of Steam's user base has gone to check out a top game on Greenlight. Or, at best around 5% of a high level of concurrent users cared to take a look.

That seems incredibly low doesn't it? Does my math check out?
 

Mairu

Member
I bit the bullet and submitted my game to Greenlight.
4tRa0l.png

http://love-the-game.com/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=94453699

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.

I feel like things are going to have to get ironed out quick or this whole program's going to fall flat on its face.

Haven't they already said "no thank you/not interested" votes don't effect the result? This isn't reddit it isn't balancing out downvotes with upvotes to come up with a final number. They even changed the language on the buttons to make that clearer
 
I bit the bullet and submitted my game to Greenlight.
4tRa0l.png

http://love-the-game.com/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=94453699

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.

I feel like things are going to have to get ironed out quick or this whole program's going to fall flat on its face.

Downvoted for lack of anime waifus.

Looks pretty awesome.
 

Bamihap

Good at being the bigger man
So the first Green Light Bundle is about to end and we promised to invest 5% of the revenue in awesome developers who need an extra bit of cash.

We're open for suggestions.
 

Catshade

Member
So less than 1/2 of 1 percent of Steam's user base has gone to check out a top game on Greenlight. Or, at best around 5% of a high level of concurrent users cared to take a look.

That seems incredibly low doesn't it? Does my math check out?

I can imagine something brewing in Valve HQ: Vote 100 games and you'll get special community badge! Vote 500 games and you'll get exclusive TF2 hats!
 

KarmaCow

Member
I can imagine something brewing in Valve HQ: Vote 100 games and you'll get special community badge! Vote 500 games and you'll get exclusive TF2 hats!

I'm sure devs will love the droves of people indiscriminately voting on games because there is a TF2 hat.
 
I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.

I'm downvoting as an answer to Steam's question. The system asks "would you buy this game is it was available on Steam?" and I reply by "Why yes, yes I would" or "Not really, it's not my cup of tea". It doesn't mean I hate the game or I want it to crash and burn, I'm just being honest about my preferences.

Developers shouldn't be upset about people downvoting games. By upvoting and downvoting Valve wants to know if there's actual commercial interest in a game, rather than a generic and meaningless "yeah I guess it's ok, upvote". I feel that upvoting without actually being interested in buying the game is a form of leading the developer on, so I prefer honesty.

In any case, I hope that Valve will take into account the respective genre's popularity in order to judge which games enter Steam. A popular indie adventure game will never get the same votes as a popular FPS, so I think the game's genre should be taken into account.
 
Developers shouldn't be upset about people downvoting games. By upvoting and downvoting Valve wants to know if there's actual commercial interest in a game, rather than a generic and meaningless "yeah I guess it's ok, upvote". I feel that upvoting without actually being interested in buying the game is a form of leading the developer on, so I prefer honesty.

In any case, I hope that Valve will take into account the respective genre's popularity in order to judge which games enter Steam. A popular indie adventure game will never get the same votes as a popular FPS, so I think the game's genre should be taken into account.

See, thing is this, I agree with you on one level, but then I've seen too much of this deep, dark internet, and it's full of bile. For every one actually interested person, there might be a handful of douchey trolls who just want to watch the world burn.

I realize I sound like a whining child about getting bad reviews, but I really do think that not having a dislike button is worse than having no button at all.
 
I bit the bullet and submitted my game to Greenlight.
4tRa0l.png

http://love-the-game.com/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=94453699

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.

I feel like things are going to have to get ironed out quick or this whole program's going to fall flat on its face.

I'm not at home atm but if you want it added to the GAFfer collection PM me a link so I don't forget it.
 

Sentenza

Member
I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.
As I wrote in a previous post, I used to upvote everything I thought had even some remote commercial appeal (yes, even if I wasn't directly interested in it) and downvote just obvious shovelware.
But that was in the first days. Now, on the other hand, they are explicitly asking "would you buy it if available on Steam?" so I'm going to click on the "No" button every single time I'm not intrigued by a game.
Sorry but that's what they are asking, after all.

That said, the "downvote issue" is apparently what everyone is complaining about, but damn if it isn't a pointless argument.
People have no clue whatsoever about how Valve is going to take downvotes into consideration (if at all) so it's not really clear to me why they think that such a trivial bullshit is going to "kill Greenlight for everyone".
 

Vastag

Member
I don't get those "Greenlight is a failure, no game has been acepted in the week that it has been up" posts. People seriously expected that games would get into steam that fast?
 
I bit the bullet and submitted my game to Greenlight.
4tRa0l.png

http://love-the-game.com/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=94453699

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.

I feel like things are going to have to get ironed out quick or this whole program's going to fall flat on its face.

It's a huge problem, you either choose 'I would buy' or 'I would not buy', whilst all it really needs is 'I would buy' and 'Next Greenlight'

No idea why they are recording negative votes.
 
It's Valve. They gather any kind of data about ANY kind of consumer behavior.
No idea what's supposed to be so strange or unusual about that.

My comment mostly referred to the fact that as a consumer/greenlight user, the options on display do not make sense. I either say YES I WANT TO BUY, or I either say the opposite.. when in reality all I want to do is easily see the next project.

They seem too interested/willing to get any sort of input from me. I'd rather just skip.
 
I would appreciate if everyone would do me a favor and vote for that to release on Steam. I've wanted it on there for awhile and it's shame they have to resort to doing it this way.

You'd have my gratitude.

Hell, completely forgot that I have an unboxed Collectors Edition copy of this at home. Need to play it.
 
You should have to have videos, a fully functioning demo AND at least 100 bucks as well as general plans for the game (pricing, release windows if accepted, etc). This thing is weighed down with more garbage than I've ever seen. I was expecting a little more control than this when Valve announced it. I figured we'd be voting on more together projects that they don't know how to place or are bogged down on submission either. Instead, the bulk of it is like a giant laundry list of things Apple has rejected from their App store.

It was entirely rushed out. Be better if Steam had just enlarged their team and better followed discussion about projects/press/etc.

It really shouldn't be up to the community to market devs games for them (which I feel this is) and the simple fact is were getting all the crap Steam was getting and so decided to give the work to the community instead.

I agree on all you expect these games to have and frankly Steam should check the demos are functioning then leave it to the community to appraise the demo (not if they buy it or not, why is my purchase affected by everyone elses buying habits?).

Hopefully they deal with issues, but I have some doubts.
 

Berto

Member
I would appreciate if everyone would do me a favor and vote for that to release on Steam. I've wanted it on there for awhile and it's shame they have to resort to doing it this way.

You'd have my gratitude.
Indeed, Gray Matter is a pretty good adventure, better than most point n click adventures out there on Steam. It's a Jane Jensen game, it shouldn't need to go this way to be accepted.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
I bit the bullet and submitted my game to Greenlight.
4tRa0l.png

http://love-the-game.com/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=94453699

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone has any reason to downvote something on Greenlight. If you don't like it, don't vote on it, as it doesn't matter if it shows up in their system.

I feel like things are going to have to get ironed out quick or this whole program's going to fall flat on its face.
Can't enter neither link from work. If I remember, I'll check it out when I get home.
 
Awesome text In Defence of Steam Greenlight

Why is the $100 fee a good decision? Why not a lower value?

Originally, uploading games to Greenlight was free. This meant that there were a lot of troll submissions, or people who misunderstood the service for a wishlist. There were also many very sub-par entries, either very early in concept stage, or done by amateur teams. The harsh reality is that most indie games are terrible, precisely because most of them are made by inexperienced teams. The harsher reality is that those don’t deserve to be on Steam, and their presence there was harming everyone else.

The $100 fee makes sure that not only legitimate developers submit their games, but it also discourages people with weak ideas from doing so. A lower value, say $10, could easily have blocked most of the trolls and confused users, but it wouldn’t stop the unmarketable games from being added there. With this relatively high fee, you need to have SOME faith that your game has a decent chance of being approved. Again, remember that Valve’s business is not to include EVERY indie game on Earth, merely the best of them. People who are amongst those almost certainly already have a following around them, and have built enough confidence that this is something that people would pay money for. From that view, $100 becomes a very irrelevant value – it’s the value of a few dozen sales even at low prices. If you don’t think that your game will sell thousands of copies, then don’t bother putting it there.

What about poor indie developers who can’t afford $100?

This is where things got really ugly on Twitter. There were many developers claiming that they simply can’t afford the $100 needed for the submission. They dedicate their lives to the craft and live on the edge, without a cent to spare. But again, this only seems relevant if you have a minor game that nobody has heard of. If you have a fanbase of thousands of people who want to play your game, surely you can do a fundraiser asking for 100 dollars for that purpose. Once your game is on Steam, you can just give them Steam keys (which apparently you can do at will), so this also works as a Kickstarter/Pre-order model. Or you can ask somebody else to cover that cost for you – if you truly have a Steam-quality game on your hands, somebody will pay that for you. I even saw some Tweets of people offering to do so. You’re only “left out” if you’re simultaneously extremely broke and unpopular – and, at that point, you’re not going to be successful in Steam anyway.

Finally, if your game is popular enough to eventually pass Greenlight, it should be popular enough to net you well over $100 of sales on OTHER, more indie-friendly websites, such as Desura. Once your game sold a few copies there, use the money to pay your entry into Greenlight.

Remember: Greenlight and Steam are not your personal marketing page! They are a STORE, to which you will only be admitted after proving that you can reach their standards. They owe you no favours.

the part about the fee :

Too bad they are not going to do the same with the 400 horrible games already there. Theres like 150-200 that are perfect for steam greenlight, but the majority is garbage, something that the 100 dollars fee wanted to take out (so what they want is really clean the greenlight section and leave space to real working games that their developers know that can sell), so if the they are not going to put the fee to the rest of the games already there their talk falls a little bit apart, becuase its not really working as intended, you have still 400 shitty games taking space of real ones, and that probably would have never appear if the fee would have been there from the start.
Also, even if im one of those people that like the idea of 100 dollars fee, and im going to pay it gladly when we have our game ready for submit, I think its not fair to new people having to pay 100 dollars and still need to fight over 400 shitty games that didnt pay a thing (as for the reasons I explained above).
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Indeed, Gray Matter is a pretty good adventure, better than most point n click adventures out there on Steam. It's a Jane Jensen game, it shouldn't need to go this way to be accepted.

I upvoted the dtp stuff across the board--not because I really want to play Venetica, but because I have no idea why a medium-large publisher who already has a ton of games on Steam wasn't able to get the rest of their games on Steam :p
 
Totally agree with him. Spot on.

He's absolutely right about the lack of demos, entry fee etc.

Yet I still disagree about the downvote thing. Everybody is just assuming that Valve will use the number of downvotes to decide whether a game should be released or not while there's no indication that this is the case.
 
He's absolutely right about the lack of demos, entry fee etc.

Yet I still disagree about the downvote thing. Everybody is just assuming that Valve will use the number of downvotes to decide whether a game should be released or not while there's no indication that this is the case.

The downbutton give trolls power, even if its done only for the "valve statitistics". You are tying to build a cooperating community. If the game is good enough, enough people will vote it up, you dont need people dragging anything down (even if its only a "imagine" downvote). You dont need a bar that only developers can see were they watch how many downvotes they have, even if the majority are upvotes.
That button (even with the new "change") doesnt do anything good, and it does various things bad.
 
Looks like DTP Entertainment is putting up their games on Greenlight. Venetica, Grey Matter, Black Mirror II.

I cant enter any of those games, the steam page says they dont exist or have been erased after clicking their logo window (using the steam program).
Can enter by the internet browser with the links posted, but I can vote because I only use my user with the program one (and im to lazy). Fix your shit valve!

EDIT In fact, I cant enter the majority of the games on greenlight, only some (and seem to be only the old ones), even with web browsing.
I can only enter by a direct link of the game poste here, if not (by entering clicking their logo image) it says the game is erased.
 
The downbutton give trolls power, even if its done only for the "valve statitistics". You are tying to build a cooperating community. If the game is good enough, enough people will vote it up, you dont need people dragging anything down (even if its only a "imagine" downvote). You dont need a bar that only developers can see were they watch how many downvotes they have, even if the majority are upvotes.
That button (even with the new "change") doesnt do anything good, and it does various things bad.

I actually think it helps show what types and genres of games the community is largely interested in. Just from a different viewpoint than using solely sales or upvotes.

Having the total of people who saw your product, and by extension the exposure, is a valuable piece of information and in GL's case one they can accurately give. The devs themselves have to decide how to use it but outright refusing that information is incredibly shortsighted IMO.
 
The downbutton give trolls power, even if its done only for the "valve statitistics". You are tying to build a cooperating community. If the game is good enough, enough people will vote it up, you dont need people dragging anything down (even if its only a "imagine" downvote). You dont need a bar that only developers can see were they watch how many downvotes they have, even if the majority are upvotes.
That button (even with the new "change") doesnt do anything good, and it does various things bad.

But Valve has said that they don't take downvotes into account so how would it give people power when the button has no power to influence Valve's decision? If Valve didn't put games on Steam because there were more people uninterested in them than interested Steam would have no games.
 
As I wrote in a previous post, I used to upvote everything I thought had even some remote commercial appeal (yes, even if I wasn't directly interested in it) and downvote just obvious shovelware.
But that was in the first days. Now, on the other hand, they are explicitly asking "would you buy it if available on Steam?" so I'm going to click on the "No" button every single time I'm not intrigued by a game.
Sorry but that's what they are asking, after all.

That said, the "downvote issue" is apparently what everyone is complaining about, but damn if it isn't a pointless argument.
People have no clue whatsoever about how Valve is going to take downvotes into consideration (if at all) so it's not really clear to me why they think that such a trivial bullshit is going to "kill Greenlight for everyone".

Basically this. I have no issue down voting now because they're basically asking my interest level/chance of purchase. I see the games I'm interested in, even ones I had no idea existed, and I upvote.

Sounds good to me.
 
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