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[BrokenIcarus]

Hm no AMD support kinda sucks, will check back once that is resolved.

 

[Asgaro]

Or you can look at Win8 as an attempt to unify a tablet OS with Desktop... in some ways it fails, in a lot of ways it succeeds. A lot of people looked at it from the perspective that MS wants to wall of windows... and others (like me) see it just as that unification in look.

All MS did was simply copy/paste a touch interface to the next Windows.

Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong but normally you don't do that. Normally you first look at details like:
- will the interface be used on big or small displays?
- will it be used by touch or by using mouse and keyboard?
Those are big things to consider because the user experience should be adapted to match the device it will be used on.

Yet, what did MS do? They simply pushed a touch UI to a non-touch device LOL.
This probably goes in against tons of design principles. Unfortunately I'm not a design expert so I can't put a list here, but yeah.

 

[NervousXtian]

And you learn a new thing everyday.



It's clear that Apple are heading further into a walled garden territory. I know a lot of apple devs are really worried about it.
And at some point IOS and OSX is going to merge. They are getting closer at each iteration. As I've said before. I think it's a good idea. It makes for a super stable system.

Apple and MS tend to hit different demographics of the business world.. I think it'd be infinitely less painful for Apple than MS to transition to that route.. but still a poor decision on Apple's part... but I don't know what % of Apple's business side is using custom client software as opposed to off the shelf solutions?

They're not required to have it locked down to enter that market, see Google.

Doesn't matter though, Microsoft has no chance in that market.

..and Android is a fragmented frustrating OS. If that's the future of OS's.. yeah.. no.

 

[MrCunningham]

You know it originally stood for Windows Emulator right?

I didn't really know that, to be honest . But it still doesn;t change the fact that Wine is not an emulator by definition as it doesn't try to emulate any CPU or hardware code.

Hm no AMD support kinda sucks, will check back once that is resolved.

Only from their GPU side it sucks. Blame that on ATi's lackluster driver support in the past. AMD's CPU's have always performed really well in Linux though, in some rare cases better than Intels CPU's.

 

[NervousXtian]

All MS did was simply copy/paste a touch interface to the next Windows.

Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong but normally you don't do that. Normally you first look at details like:
- will the interface be used on big or small displays?
- will it be used by touch or by using mouse and keyboard?
Those are big things to consider because the user experience should be adapted to match the device it will be used on.

Yet, what did MS do? They simply pushed a touch UI to a non-touch device LOL.
This probably goes in against tons of design principles. Unfortunately I'm not a design expert so I can't put a list here, but yeah.

That's completely untrue though.

Have you used a 360, a Windows Phone, a Windows Tablet, or Win8? It's a unification of style between all devices.

What inherently makes Metro on Win8 a touch interface? Tiles? What the fuck are icons on the desktop? Want to search something, just type.

That whole touch interface on a mouse/keyboard argument is such bullshit.. especially since the desktop is right there underneath to use if you so choose.. or if someone just wants to use the tile system.. there they go. How the fuck is Metro a touch only interface, seriously. It's just a different look to the icon system OS's have had since the OG windows and os2.

 

[Exploding8]

All MS did was simply copy/paste a touch interface to the next Windows.

Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong but normally you don't do that. Normally you first look at details like:
- will the interface be used on big or small displays?
- will it be used by touch or by using mouse and keyboard?
Those are big things to consider because the user experience should be adapted to match the device it will be used on.

Yet, what did MS do? They simply pushed a touch UI to a non-touch device LOL.
This probably goes in against tons of design principles. Unfortunately I'm not a design expert so I can't put a list here, but yeah.

That's the thing, they're kinda going for an "all of the above" approach with Windows 8. They want your tablet to be a fully functional PC AND a tablet, and now that they're actually releasing cheap tablets that do that I'm starting to fall in love with Windows 8. I just got a Dell Venue 8 Pro and I can do literally everything I can do on my laptop with it, except it gets 4 times as much battery, weighs a pound, lets me write notes on it (handwritten thanks to the pen), all while also providing the key tablet features (simple to use internet, portability, e-readers, etc.)

AND I can play Civ 5 on it. And when I get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse I've heard its powerful enough to play Portal 2 on it. And I could mirror its display wirelessly to my tv (theoretically, I need to get my hands on a miracast HDMI adapter).

Its kinda super amazing. And also cheaper than an iPad (which absolutely boggles my mind)
So I wouldn't be surprised if desktop PCs and laptops become the realm of PC gamers soon, because there's no reason to own either now that these tablet PCs are being released.

But trying to be a bit on topic, is there any real point to having SteamOS right now? Does it increase performance? And can it be dual booted? (I'd assume yes?)

 

[jelly]

It's definitely a touch UI mashed with old Windows. Full screen apps, swiping from the sides, hot corners. It's primarily based on touch but tweaked and half baked for non touch gestures. Personally, I love the UI on Windows Phone, not too bad on tablets, dislike with mouse and keyboard, god awful on Xbox One.

Back to Steam OS, I thought they were going to do their own Linux flavor rather than forking an existing one.

 

[frontieruk]

The only reason I expect it to perform better than window when it officially releases is because Valve have said that it offers "significant performance gains" compared to windows. In its current state, that would seem doubtful as some of the driver packages that give high performance on other linux distros are disabled due to compatibility issues. We'll have to wait and see when the OS has its official release to test if Valve's statements are true.

If I remember correctly that was down to the drivers being directly accessible rather than going via DX, so those performance gains could be the same as mantle for amd, I'd expect to see ms play catch up quickly if their api was being ignored for custom solutions.

 

[cyberheater]

If I remember correctly that was down to the drivers being directly accessible rather than going via DX, so those performance gains could be the same as mantle for amd, I'd expect to see ms play catch up quickly if their api was being ignored for custom solutions.

You forget that Windows also has a ton of crap running in the background eating up CPU resources and memory that have nothing to do with running your game. This is another reason why SteamOS will end up being faster and leaner.

 

[pixlexic]

windows is here to stay.

That really doesnt have anything to do with my post but ok.

If steamos becomes a true alternative to windows gaming then everyone wins.

 

[Qassim]

That does not make it any less walled gardern. It's the whole ecosystem and how they control it and do things overall. They definitely arent "open".

Tell me what I can't do on OSX.

You keep saying these words but haven't actually explained them.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

I didn't really know that, to be honest . But it still doesn;t change the fact that Wine is not an emulator by definition as it doesn't try to emulate any CPU or hardware code.



Only from their GPU side it sucks. Blame that on ATi's lackluster driver support in the past. AMD's CPU's have always performed really well in Linux though, in some rare cases better than Intels CPU's.

Yeah I meant AMD Gpu support. Sorry for not clarifying.

 

[Exploding8]

Tell me what I can't do on OSX.

You keep saying these words but haven't actually explained them.

You can't run OSX on a tablet.

 

[NervousXtian]

You forget that Windows also has a ton of crap running in the background eating up CPU resources and memory that have nothing to do with running your game. This is another reason why SteamOS will end up being faster and leaner.

..but it's really not that much resources being used at all, and makes such a small difference in performance that it's not really much of a factor.

 

[cyberheater]

Tell me what I can't do on OSX.

You keep saying these words but haven't actually explained them.

Can we get off the subject now. This thread is about SteamOS.

 

[Atolm]

You forget that Windows also has a ton of crap running in the background eating up CPU resources and memory that have nothing to do with running your game. This is another reason why SteamOS will end up being faster and leaner.

That was a factor ten years ago, maybe. Not now.

 

[cyberheater]

..but it's really not that much resources being used at all, and makes such a small difference in performance that it's not really much of a factor.

I'm not a dev. But multiple devs are saying that SteamOS will yield a significant performance advantage due to this.
The fact that a company like Razer has spent the time and money to develop a program which attempts to shut down as many background running processes as possible to give you better performance speaks volumes of how inefficient Windows is as a games platform.

 

[Kocolino67]

Hey,
just a friendly reminder and kind request to everyone who managed to install SteamOS on his/her computer. I would appreciate to get some first hand installation experiences, own "how-to's" and first impression of games played in the DIY SteamMachine thread (which should be focused only on homebrew SteamMachines with SteamOS and not on "why SteamOS?" or "nah, windows is still better!" discussions).
Thx!

 

[Horsemama1956]

I'm not a dev. But multiple devs are saying that SteamOS will yield a significant performance advantage due to this.
The fact that a company like Razer has spent the time and money to develop a program which attempts to shut down as many background running processes as possible to give you better performance speaks volumes of how inefficient Windows is as a games platform.

The people that use those are usually plebs who have a fuck load of shit running that they probably aren't aware of. Name the Devs who aren't Indie.

 

[Syphon Filter]

If Windows does go the "walled garden" route for the entire OS - then, yes, it will be easy to kill off. Everyone will shift MacOS/Linux. Apple would be poised to strike so damn fast it would make everyone's heads spin.

I don't see the walled garden happening honestly. look at Windows 8.2,it will have the actual start button this time and will be more traditional.

 

[Pavaloo]

Can OS X users tell me what to do in this scenario:
“Simple Comic” can’t be opened because it is from an unidentified developer.

I need a CBR reader for my mac, but I don't want to have to pay for one from the app store and I can't use anything I find online because I always get an error like above. It feels like a walled garden right now

edit: More like a garden that I couldn't find the door to! Thanks railGUN!

 

[Harlock]

The straming is out? Will work with any steam client or only steamos?

 

[ashecitism]

The straming is out? Will work with any steam client or only steamos?

Streaming beta is not live yet, but yes it will work with any Steam client. It's not SteamOS exclusive feature. Join the group if you want to get in the beta.

 

[NervousXtian]

I'm not a dev. But multiple devs are saying that SteamOS will yield a significant performance advantage due to this.
The fact that a company like Razer has spent the time and money to develop a program which attempts to shut down as many background running processes as possible to give you better performance speaks volumes of how inefficient Windows is as a games platform.

Razer is a company in the market of selling performance gaming products at premium prices. It's marketing more than performance really.

Take the L4D2.. did they bother to optimize it as well for Windows? 4 year old game, on an older engine.

Performance increases won't be all that. This isn't making PC into a console-style closed system.. you still have all the different hardware options, plus added OS fragmentation.

 

[Nzyme32]

Take the L4D2.. did they bother to optimize it as well for Windows? 4 year old game, on an older engine.

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

After this work, Left 4 Dead 2 is running at 315 FPS on Linux. That the Linux version runs faster than the Windows version (270.6) seems a little counter-intuitive, given the greater amount of time we have spent on the Windows version. However, it does speak to the underlying efficiency of the kernel and OpenGL. Interestingly, in the process of working with hardware vendors we also sped up the OpenGL implementation on Windows. Left 4 Dead 2 is now running at 303.4 FPS with that configuration.

 

[Kocolino67]

Streaming beta is not live yet, but yes it will work with any Steam client. It's not SteamOS exclusive feature. Join the group if you want to get in the beta.

Stream options beginning to appear: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/homestream/discussions/0/630799997412495136/

 

[ashecitism]

yeah, I don't think L4D2 should be used as a prime example here. It's running on an old engine, it's not very demanding to begin with.

As I said, Source 2 is going to be a better example.

Stream options beginning to appear: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/homestream/discussions/0/630799997412495136/

yeah, streaming has been spotted in the beta client before

 

[IcyRhythms]

I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but why is there a 500GB requirement?

 

[Nzyme32]

yeah, I don't think L4D2 should be used as a prime example here. It's running on an old engine, it's not very demanding to begin with.

As I said, Source 2 is going to be a better example.

Agreed. I'm not knowledgeable enough from a development stand point to understand it but would the better examples be looking at games developed natively for steamOS versus a different platform's counterpart?

 

[cyberheater]

The people that use those are usually plebs who have a fuck load of shit running that they probably aren't aware of. Name the Devs who aren't Indie.

Razer is a company in the market of selling performance gaming products at premium prices. It's marketing more than performance really.

Take the L4D2.. did they bother to optimize it as well for Windows? 4 year old game, on an older engine.

Performance increases won't be all that. This isn't making PC into a console-style closed system.. you still have all the different hardware options, plus added OS fragmentation.

Guys. Can we get off the subject for a while until the we start seeing a broad spectrum of benchmarks comparing SteamOS and Win7/8. It's counter productive at this point.

 

[Asgaro]

That's completely untrue though.

Have you used a 360, a Windows Phone, a Windows Tablet, or Win8? It's a unification of style between all devices.

What inherently makes Metro on Win8 a touch interface? Tiles? What the fuck are icons on the desktop? Want to search something, just type.

That whole touch interface on a mouse/keyboard argument is such bullshit.. especially since the desktop is right there underneath to use if you so choose.. or if someone just wants to use the tile system.. there they go. How the fuck is Metro a touch only interface, seriously. It's just a different look to the icon system OS's have had since the OG windows and os2.

Metro works fine on the 360, Windows Phone, tablets and Xbox One.
But I don't get how they could put it on normal PC's because it breaks so many normal things.
For example: when you right click an app icon in the Metro interface, you would except a little menu popping up where your cursor is, right?
Well that doesn't happen. Instead you get a bar right at the bottom of the screen. And you have to go with your cursor all the way to the bottom.
I'm not saying I'm lazy to move my cursor, but this is a clear example of degradation in usability.


What makes Metro on Win8 a touch interface to me?
Well, the fact you have to use that hot corners functionality. That's easy to do with your fingers but when you use a mouse, it's totally different and feels annoying.

Or the fact that the charms bar is automatically hidden and you can't put it fixed on the screen. This is because it's in its origin a touch OS which tries to move as much stuff out of the screen estate as possible because it is in its origin catered to small screens (tablets, etc).
Because can you name me one desktop software app that has this "move things out of the screen ability"? That's plain annoying and no software developer in his right mind would do that normally.

I can go on for things that look so wrong regarding usability...


Edit: Oh, and why do I read everywhere "When you learn these shortcuts, it's awesome to work with Win 8!".
Well that proves my point. When you have to learn shortcuts, there is something wrong. The GUI (graphical user interface) should allow users to use the OS very easily (at least the most frequent used functionality) without the keyboard essentially. It's like the counterpart of the Command Prompt where using the keyboard is necessary.
You can see the GUI as something that should be very useful by only using the mouse as input device for most frequent used functions. I feel it fails here.

 

[Nzyme32]

I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but why is there a 500GB requirement?

I think the systemrestore images that are provided are for variations of the prototype steam machines they were messing with rather than providing broader support? Not sure if i'm getting this right though

 

[cyberheater]

I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but why is there a 500GB requirement?

Folks have managed to install it on a 32Gb SSD but it's a custom process. I've no idea why the standard install requires 500Gb. There is an alternative SteamOS method that requires a 1TB for some reason.

 

[Asgaro]

That's the thing, they're kinda going for an "all of the above" approach with Windows 8. They want your tablet to be a fully functional PC AND a tablet, and now that they're actually releasing cheap tablets that do that I'm starting to fall in love with Windows 8. I just got a Dell Venue 8 Pro and I can do literally everything I can do on my laptop with it, except it gets 4 times as much battery, weighs a pound, lets me write notes on it (handwritten thanks to the pen), all while also providing the key tablet features (simple to use internet, portability, e-readers, etc.)

AND I can play Civ 5 on it. And when I get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse I've heard its powerful enough to play Portal 2 on it. And I could mirror its display wirelessly to my tv (theoretically, I need to get my hands on a miracast HDMI adapter).

Yes, when you have a device that has touch, it's all nice. I wouldn't complain about that.

But there are still tons of people that use mouse and keyboard for everything, and Windows 8 really doesn't bring anything useful for them to the table.
I mean, for a normal end user. I know for the experienced user / system admin / ... there are quite some chances behind the scenes and stuff like a reworked Task Manager etc.

 

[Kocolino67]

yeah, streaming has been spotted in the beta client before

alright, I was already excited...

 

[zhorkat]

What makes Metro on Win8 a touch interface to me?
Well, the fact you have to use that hot corners functionality. That's easy to do with your fingers but when you use a mouse, it's totally different and feels annoying.

Well for one thing, there are keyboard shortcuts for that functionality. For another, the use of hot corners is the mouse-driven method for accessing stuff like the charms bar. A user with a touch screen wouldn't use hot corners and would instead swipe in from the side of the screen to access that stuff.

 

[cyberheater]

Metro works fine on the 360, Windows Phone, tablets and Xbox One.
But I don't get how they could put it on normal PC's because it breaks so many normal things.
For example: when you right click an app icon in the Metro interface, you would except a little menu popping up where your cursor is, right?
Well that doesn't happen. Instead you get a bar right at the bottom of the screen. And you have to go with your cursor all the way to the bottom.
I'm not saying I'm lazy to move my cursor, but this is a clear example of degradation in usability.


What makes Metro on Win8 a touch interface to me?
Well, the fact you have to use that hot corners functionality. That's easy to do with your fingers but when you use a mouse, it's totally different and feels annoying.

Or the fact that the charms bar is automatically hidden and you can't put it fixed on the screen. This is because it's in its origin a touch OS which tries to move as much stuff out of the screen estate as possible because it is in its origin catered to small screens (tablets, etc).
Because can you name me one desktop software app that has this "move things out of the screen ability"? That's plain annoying and no software developer in his right mind would do that normally.

I can go on for things that look so wrong regarding usability...


Edit: Oh, and why do I read everywhere "When you learn these shortcuts, it's awesome to work with Win 8!".
Well that proves my point. When you have to learn shortcuts, there is something wrong. The GUI (graphical user interface) should allow users to use the OS without the keyboard essentially. It's like the counterpart of the Command Prompt where using the keyboard is necessary.
You can see the GUI as something that should be very useful with only using the mouse as input device. I feel it fails here.

Don't get me started about the Metro interface on desktop system driven by a mouse. It's a monumental fucking disaster.

 

[ashecitism]

alright, I was already excited...

well, SteamDB (the guys that brought it up) had to tinker some stuff to trigger it, meanwhile for the people who are reporting it lately, it triggers automatically, so the beta must be near.

 

[FrozenCell]

windows is here to stay.

windos is legacy

 

[jelly]

Steambox unboxing video

 

[Ricerocket]

Steambox unboxing video

Haha nice! A wooden lockbox.

 

[Nzyme32]

That is definitely an amazing box! haha

 

[Durante]

I'm not a dev. But multiple devs are saying that SteamOS will yield a significant performance advantage due to this.
The fact that a company like Razer has spent the time and money to develop a program which attempts to shut down as many background running processes as possible to give you better performance speaks volumes of how inefficient Windows is as a games platform.

The only thing that tells you is how gullible people are, and how fucked up some people's PC configurations are. It doesn't tell you anything about Windows.

exceptions for corporations are already baked into winrt.

Yeah, the "but companies!" line of reasoning doesn't really impact consumer versions of windows running consumer programs.

Guys. Can we get off the subject for a while until the we start seeing a broad spectrum of benchmarks comparing SteamOS and Win7/8.

I'm all for that, I just hope they won't be silly comparisons like DirectX9 on Windows vs. modern-day OpenGL on Linux.

Steambox unboxing video

Well, now I want one.

 

[bob page]

..and Android is a fragmented frustrating OS. If that's the future of OS's.. yeah.. no.

Sounds like you've never used Android (at least not recently). The fragmentation argument is moot with the way Google is releasing system apps now.

 

[sekrit]

Don't get me started about the Metro interface on desktop system driven by a mouse. It's a monumental fucking disaster.

The metro apps are pretty useless at desktop use in current form but you don't really have to use them at all. I only use netflix and some steam stuff. Live tiles are nice idea but under utilized. I actually like the new start screen over the old start menu.

 

[cyberheater]

The metro apps are pretty useless at desktop use in current form but you don't really have to use them at all. I only use netflix and some steam stuff. Live tiles are nice idea but under utilized. I actually like the new start screen over the old start menu.

Yeah. The Netflix app is pretty good. But mostly. I just try to ignore Metro as much as possible. Win 8.1 is a definite improvement in that regards.

 

[flaxknuckles]

Does anyone know if this has a universal save game location and interface? If not, I don't see the benefit of this OS if you still have to go into the desktop to do certain essential functions. If Valve is trying to expand into the living room then they need to regulate these developers more.

 

[UnrealEck]

Does anyone know if this has a universal save game location and interface? If not, I don't see the benefit of this OS if you still have to go into the desktop to do certain essential functions. If Valve is trying to expand into the living room then they need to regulate these developers more.

You mean like cloud saves? Yeah I think many games have them. Not sure about all games though but I'd take a chance in saying 'most.'

 

[flaxknuckles]

You mean like cloud saves? Yeah I think many games have them. Not sure about all games though but I'd take a chance in saying 'most.'

I mean a save game management system like consoles do. If you had to backup your game saves for some reason and they didn't support cloud then it would be a hassle finding them, unlike consoles. I just had this problem with Lego Batman 2, which keeps its saves in a hidden AppData folder.

 

[fallout]

I mean a save game management system like consoles do. If you had to backup your game saves for some reason and they didn't support cloud then it would be a hassle finding them, unlike consoles. I just had this problem with Lego Batman 2, which keeps its saves in a hidden AppData folder.

Doesn't apply to SteamOS, but related ... GameSave Manager with its Sync & Link functionality and any cloud storage service (I use DropBox) is amazing:

http://www.gamesave-manager.com/?s=support&c=synclink