Support NeoGAF

[numble]

A discussion about legal policy can logically be restricted to App Store, but not a "moral responsibility." That's the problem.

And I logically gave a reason why the Android comment makes him a douche - the notion that you need an Android phone to get porn implies that you can't get porn on the iPhone any other way, and that's blatantly false. He just said that to make it look like he's actually taking a moral stand.

My legal brain says his comment about the Android phone must be read in pari materia with his other comments regarding an Android porn app store.

 

[LCfiner]

Wow its like there really is an apple symbol that goes up in the sky

I posted this in the actual iPhone thread but no one gave a shit. :lol

I guess it needed its own thread so all the non iPhone owners could wander in and comment.

 

[speculawyer]

 

[dojokun]

My legal brain says his comment about the Android phone must be read in pari materia with his other comments regarding an Android porn app store.

Doesn't change the fact that a "moral responsibility" of keeping porn off the iPhone would require him to do more than just censoring apps in the App Store. If it was truly a "moral responsibility" then he would remove all possible methods of getting porn on the iPhone.

 

[f3niks]

I don't know why but as soon as I read the thread title, I pictured Apple coming out with a product call iCame.

 

[RubxQub]

I don't know why but as soon as I read the thread title, I pictured Apple coming out with a product call iCame.

That's pretty much the unofficial name for every new product they release.

 

[Square Triangle]

He is right though, my Droid phone is fanfuckingtastic at this shit.

I'm the guy in the next stall breathing heavy. No shame.

 

[Cep]

iDon't have any porn apps.

:lol

 

[numble]

Doesn't change the fact that a "moral responsibility" of keeping porn off the iPhone would require him to do more than just censoring apps in the App Store. If it was truly a "moral responsibility" then he would remove all possible methods of getting porn on the iPhone.

No. He was asked about the App Store, his response must be read to be responding to his question, which is about the App Store. This is strengthened by the fact that he's talked about a Android porn store a couple of days earlier.

I don't even know why you're distinguishing the legal responsibility--that's already covered as they have methods of selling and renting Rated R movies and Apps with explicit content.

If Sony or Nintendo rejected porn games or porn videos (in the PSN store), it is not because of legal issues, but because of moral issues. But just because they believe they have a moral responsibility does not mean they have to do everything possible to get porn away from their devices.

 

[Fenderputty]

How many porn apps does the Droid store have?

And are they free? I mean ... why would I want one when I can just use the internet.

People have already said it, but if I want to look for porn on my phone, it's not going to be through a crappy store app. It's going to be from one of the many streaming sites out there.

 

[Cheeto]

That's pretty much the unofficial name for every new product they release.

Yep, and even before we know anything about it

 

[obaidr]

srsly what does porn have to do with moral ?

 

[Plywood]

That is cute.

 

[dojokun]

No. He was asked about the App Store, his response must be read to be responding to his question, which is about the App Store. This is strengthened by the fact that he's talked about a Android porn store a couple of days earlier.

I don't even know why you're distinguishing the legal responsibility--that's already covered as they have methods of selling and renting Rated R movies and Apps with explicit content.

If Sony or Nintendo rejected porn games or porn videos (in the PSN store), it is not because of legal issues, but because of moral issues. But just because they believe they have a moral responsibility does not mean they have to do everything possible to get porn away from their devices.

You didn't read my post right if you thought I was saying legal issues were at play. I said *if* legal issues were at play, then he'd have an excuse to care about porn in the App Store but only the App Store.

And this is the second time you have shown that you don't understand that I already know he was talking about the App Store.

That is the whole problem. The fact that he WAS talking about only the App Store is the problem.

Let me say it again so you can understand it.

I
know
he
was
talking
about
the
App
Store.

And that's the problem. A moral responsibility cannot logically be limited to only 1 method of getting porn on your device.

Person A has a company and sells Product X.

Users, using only the software including on Product X, have several ways to get porn onto Product X.

Let's call them:

Method A
Method B
Method C
Method D

Person A is sent an email asking about Method A. Person A responds that Method A is being actively censored because he has a moral responsibility to keep porn off Product X. Person A and his company do indeed try to block porn by censoring Method A, but don't do a thing regarding Methods B, C or D.

I know that Person A was only talking about Method A. I know that.

I
know
that.

The point is that a "moral responsibility" would require Person A and his company to block Methods A, B, C, and D - NOT just Method A.

The fact that he was only talking about the App Store IS the problem.

 

[Tobor]

Wow its like there really is an apple symbol that goes up in the sky

Of course there is. How else would overdramatic Apple haters know which thread to come flop around in like fish on the deck of a boat.

 

[NullPointer]

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I can get Tube8 on my iPhone.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

....what iDon't.

 

[RubxQub]

I just typed a lot of text over an issue that isn't worth more than 5 seconds of discussion.

Could it not be said that someone who is blocking method A but not method B is more morally responsible than someone who is not block A or B?

Could it also be said that perhaps Steve is implying that they fully intend on blocking B, thus making the iPhone the pornless mobile device for the masses?! Thus making them the most morally upstanding company ever?!

Could it also be true that Steve doesn't know you can get porn on the iPhone, making him the dumbest CEO ever?

Could it also be true that Steve just made a pretty harmless backhanded compliment to the Android marketplace?

Could it also be true that this is the WORST debate in Apple debate history?!

 

[Neo C.]

Now I want to see the iPhone losing marketshare. Would Apple allow then porn apps?

 

[tokkun]

The point is that a "moral responsibility" would require Person A and his company to block Methods A, B, C, and D - NOT just Method A.

Not necessarily. Person A might have a higher moral responsibility to allow 'Activity Z' that can only be done using Method B. Or it might simply be infeasible to block Method C.

In real life, people take many moral positions, and different moral imperatives often come into conflict.

 

[Forearms]

again, it's a store. people who own stores can decide what they want to sell and what they don't want to sell.

porn is out. Porn was out back when Jobs first announced the SDK and the app store concept for the iPhone. it was a non-starter and will remain so as long as Apple distributes apps for the phone from a unified storefront

They made a call. some people won't like it which is why it's great there are other phones out there plus a web browser to access all content.

But, seriously, do you complain about your "customer experience" when you can't buy porn from Target or Walmart or Bestbuy? or get porn games on Xbox Live?

No, I don't. You're absolutely correct, nor would I, even in the case of the App Store.

My concern comes from the fact that there are parental controls in place to censor the material already, so why go to the extent of not allowing it all?

It just seems like a "holier than thou art" approach as others have said.

 

[mjc]

I've never downloaded porn-style apps anyways. Just use safari.

 

[PflargBlarg]

You didn't read my post right if you thought I was saying legal issues were at play. I said *if* legal issues were at play, then he'd have an excuse to care about porn in the App Store but only the App Store.

And this is the second time you have shown that you don't understand that I already know he was talking about the App Store.

That is the whole problem. The fact that he WAS talking about only the App Store is the problem.

Let me say it again so you can understand it.

I
know
he
was
talking
about
the
App
Store.

And that's the problem. A moral responsibility cannot logically be limited to only 1 method of getting porn on your device.

Person A has a company and sells Product X.

Users, using only the software including on Product X, have several ways to get porn onto Product X.

Let's call them:

Method A
Method B
Method C
Method D

Person A is sent an email asking about Method A. Person A responds that Method A is being actively censored because he has a moral responsibility to keep porn off Product X. Person A and his company do indeed try to block porn by censoring Method A, but don't do a thing regarding Methods B, C or D.

I know that Person A was only talking about Method A. I know that.

I
know
that.

The point is that a "moral responsibility" would require Person A and his company to block Methods A, B, C, and D - NOT just Method A.

The fact that he was only talking about the App Store IS the problem.

I think it's hilarious how worked up you are about this. Why do you even care? It's not anti-consumer, and you obviously don't own an iPhone. Just roll with it man, there's nothing wrong with what Jobs said although it may have been a little self-righteous.

 

[numble]

Stuff

In-N-Out feels it has a moral responsibility to proselytize the Christian message, but it doesn't ask every customer to think about Jesus before every order. I believed I had a moral responsibility to help Barack Obama get elected, so I worked on his campaign--but that didn't mean it meant I had to take ALL MEASURES TO GET HIM ELECTED, including committing crimes, faking an assault and putting a reverse J on my face, physically preventing people from voting, etc.

 

[dojokun]

Could it not be said that someone who is blocking method A but not method B is more morally responsible than someone who is not block A or B?

In some cases, I'd say yes, that's more morally responsible to block Method A than not block any method. That would apply in cases where you have control over Method A and you don't have control over Method B.

But not in this case. Jobs' company has control over both Methods. They could easily not include a browser, but they voluntarily do.

Also, the browser method is too prevalent to believe that blocking Method A is making the iPhone anymore "kid-friendly" than if it wasn't blocked. Method B is not only easier because it's free, but also it has way more porn available than Method A.

Could it also be said that perhaps Steve is implying that they fully intend on blocking B, thus making the iPhone the pornless mobile device for the masses?! Thus making them the most morally upstanding company ever?!

1) He could just said that if that was the case.
2) Too many porn sites out there to block.

With things being how they are, I just doubt it. Sure, I could be wrong, but with the currently available facts, I think it's more of a stretch to say that Apple is going to effectively block all porn from the iPhone in all methods, than it is to say Jobs is a douche.

Could it also be true that Steve doesn't know you can get porn on the iPhone, making him the dumbest CEO ever?

No.

Could it also be true that Steve just made a pretty harmless backhanded compliment to the Android marketplace?

It probably IS true. But that doesn't negate his douchebaggery. It reinforces it. Just sell your own product and don't run a negative campaign against other products. Yes, other companies do this, too, and they are douches for it as well (like the whole "what iDon't, DROID DOES" campaign).

Could it also be true that this is the WORST debate in Apple debate history?!

No. Too many dumb ones out there.

 

[Tobor]

I've never downloaded porn-style apps anyways. Just use safari.

Exactly. This whole discussion couldn't be more overblown.

 

[RubxQub]

Dude, stop! :lol

My post was almost entirely satire and you just replied to ALL OF IT!

 

[Jewbacca]

Smart business move Steve.. Dirty but smart.

 

[dojokun]

In-N-Out feels it has a moral responsibility to proselytize its Christian message, but it doesn't ask every customer to think about Jesus before every order. I believed I had a moral responsibility to help Barack Obama get elected, so I worked on his campaign--but that didn't mean it meant I had to take ALL MEASURES TO GET HIM ELECTED, including committing crimes, faking an assault and putting a reverse J on my face, physically preventing people from voting, etc.

The difference is Apple is PROVIDING Method B (Safari browser) by including it in their product. You didn't provide people with the ability to vote for McCain.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Steve Jobs vs. China

GO!

 

[Vic]

:lol

 

[dojokun]

Dude, stop! :lol

My post was almost entirely satire and you just replied to ALL OF IT!

Well I needed something to do in the 10 minutes before my lunchbreak.

 

[Tobor]

The difference is Apple is PROVIDING Method B (Safari browser) by including it in their product. You didn't provide people with the ability to vote for McCain.

Astroladding confirmed.

 

[RubxQub]

Well I needed something to do in the 10 minutes before my lunchbreak.

I can sympathize with that, actually. :lol

 

[numble]

The difference is Apple is PROVIDING Method B (Safari browser) by including it in their product. You didn't provide people with the ability to vote for McCain.

Apple is not providing the websites on Safari. It is providing the Apps through its own server.

But please post in the In-N-Out thread about how In-N-Out are douchebags for believing they have a moral responsibility to proselytize Christianity to its customers, but is not doing enough of it, even though they can.

I encountered McCain voters that I registered to vote. I could have very well thrown out their registrations. But my moral responsibility does not mean to TAKE ALL MEASURES possible.

 

[mugurumakensei]

And are they free? I mean ... why would I want one when I can just use the internet.

People have already said it, but if I want to look for porn on my phone, it's not going to be through a crappy store app. It's going to be from one of the many streaming sites out there.

You can't even do that on an iPhone. No Flash!

 

[CharlieDigital]

I think it's hilarious how worked up you are about this. Why do you even care? It's not anti-consumer, and you obviously don't own an iPhone. Just roll with it man, there's nothing wrong with what Jobs said although it may have been a little self-righteous.

dojo seems to get worked up about everything...

 

[RubxQub]

You can't even do that on an iPhone. No Flash!

For some sites, sure. But there are sites out there that cater to iPhones that offer more content than anyone could ever fap to for every fetish or desire you could have!

 

[dojokun]

Apple is not providing the websites on Safari. It is providing the Apps through its own server.

But please post in the In-N-Out thread about how In-N-Out are douchebags for believing they have a moral responsibility to proselytize Christianity to its customers, but is not doing enough of it, even though they can.

Oh I agree they aren't "providing" the actual websites, but anyone who was TRULY feeling a "moral responsibility" wouldn't allow for such a distinction to matter. They would call for eliminating the web browser to make it that much harder to get porn.

RE: your McCain comment. Your moral responsibility to respect democracy and people's rights to vote is what kept you from throwing out registration for Republicans. Multiple morals to deal with. Not comparable with Apple keeping the browser.

 

[kaching]

Wow. If somebody is asking about the App Store, you will assume that the response is about the App Store.

You're right, I would have expected Jobs to respond more specifically to the question, not generalize beyond what's appropriate to the question like he did. He's a smart guy, got access to a crack legal team, I hear. Should be able to as easily frame a question-specific response as I can like, "We prefer not to profit from the sale of Porn as much as possible on our platforms," or (probably better yet), "We prefer not to sell porn in our stores, virtual or otherwise." An unequivocal declaration of "keeping porn off the iPhone" is completely inappropriate to the question at hand.

 

[jmdajr]

browser only app you need

 

[subrock]

Isn't there a Playboy app in the store?

its just the articles

 

[ronito]

 

[Herpes Reasons]

i hope next generation of android phones come with a "sneeze" guard..

 

[numble]

Oh I agree they aren't "providing" the actual websites, but anyone who was TRULY feeling a "moral responsibility" wouldn't allow for such a distinction to matter. They would call for eliminating the web browser to make it that much harder to get porn.

RE: your McCain comment. Your moral responsibility to respect democracy and people's rights to vote is what kept you from throwing out registration for Republicans. Multiple morals to deal with. Not comparable with Apple keeping the browser.

Apple has a moral responsibility to remove Safari, and there are no other moral issues behind that?

Okay, I'm through with your joke argument.

 

[Baha]

Yeah how dare a closed economy trying to reach every demo block access to porn. In fact I'm going to go sell my Steam account, 360, PS3, PSP, and Wii right now. They all suck without porn!

What a shitty non-story.

The fact that you believe that you can't watch porn on any of the devices/services listed above makes you naive.

PS3/360/wii = streaming video/web browser
PSP/DS = web browser on PSP/video playback on both devices (homebrew if using DS)
Steam = web browser/flash

If there's a will, there's a way.

 

[LCfiner]

The fact that you believe that you can't watch porn on any of the devices listed above makes you naive.

PS3/360/wii = streaming video/web browser
PSP/DS = web browser on PSP/video playback on both devices (homebrew if using DS)
Steam = web browser/flash

If there's a will, there's a way.

The fact that you wrote this reply which has nothing to do with the app store means you didn’t really think about the issue at hand.

the methods of web browsing and streaming media to display porn still work on the iPhone - just like those other devices. The issue is that Apple won’t sell porn in their store.

the same way those other devices won’t sell porn in their stores.

got it?

 

[ZeoVGM]

:lol What a terribly lame thing to say.

If Verizon had balls, they would do some sort of online ad basically agreeing with what he said. That'd be hilarious.

Of course that's not why you should buy an Android phone. You should buy an Android phone like the Incredible because it's simply better than the iPhone.

 

[reddmyst]

Y'know, i was about to get an iPhone until this shit was posted.