You should go read up on who bankrolled American independence.
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Study: France, Germany, Spain&most Europe more racist towards blacks than Britain, US
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You should go read up on who bankrolled American independence.
astroturfing
Member
Nigeria..? The Gambia? Botswana? Mozambique? Ghana? Ethiopia?
its probably South Africa.
Muffin1611
Banned
It is not a good tool to compare relative racism between different countries.
It also in itself is not a really good test, I participated in it. IIRC I kept messing up in the second half of the test because the test messes with your muscle memory you got until that point.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Not quite sure of the answer either way, but do you mean country most tolerantl/least racist towards black people (which I have no idea about or more progressive black majority nation?
ClosingADoor
Member
You mean the most progressive country with a majority black population? I'm thinking Botswana then. Or South Africa.
Muffin1611
Banned
What I said plus the fact that the test is English-only plus self-selecting still makes it extremely unreliable.
"Because we measure it generally we can predict it for police officers" doesn't work when the general measurement is completely wrong. For example, the subset of Serbians who speak English and chose to take the test is not representative at all.
Soldiussnaku
Member
You forgot the s, right?
Even as a Brit living in the NW and in greater Manchester, and experiencing a ton of kind and warm hearted, non racist people in my personal and professional the combo of Brexit and the terror attacks and the reaction has demasked the racial and anti immigrant undertone this nation has. Sure labour and the left had a huge upswing recently with the election but the racists and their ilk have become emboldened and have grown in number, or rather come of out the dark so to speak. a nasty, disgusting groundswell of racism has occurred in the uk over the past year. Hopefully that will come to an end once labour gets into government as the ruling party,
http://erichehman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/HehmanFlakeCalanchiniSPPS.pdf
The article that I linked also acknowledges that the data they are using may not be Representative, but it still finds that strong correlation between high levels of implicit bias and police shootings using the same data as the OP's original article is using.
As for why, id hazard a guess that it has to do with the very nature of the thing being measured. Implicit bias is learned and internalized from your society. Do English speaking Serbians grow up in a different culture than non-English speaking Serbians? Do they learn and internalize different views on race, gender, prejudice through their popular culture, society, etc?
I don't know that answer, but my guess would be no.
What might make this data rather meaningless is that is not that it is self-selecting or only English speakers, but the regions are just too big. The article that I liked looked at the locality and the city to find that strong correlation. Looking at a state/nation level probably doesn't work because Berlin is a lot different from farmville Germany.
Soldiussnaku
Member
Nah, you might saw ewwwww,whatever that means, but the fucking sad fact is that in the current shitshow of uk politics post brexit shitstorm is the party with the best chance of giving the racists and nationalists the boot and returning to social progressivism is labour. Personally I wish their was a new party which could cut through the political bullshit, but it's nice to want things, the reality is the status quo will remain for a long time
I'm not some idealist who thinks the labour or the liberal movement in the uk is above reproach and find myself more of a left leaning centrist, yet labour with their grassroots movement and leader, currently, in the uk political climate, represent the best chance of salvaging the nations acceptance of non white and European people.
And yes, the test is questionable to say the least, especially given the op's posting history,
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
more likely a voat troll or astroturfer. His M.O. is the same for every thread: make one shitty uninformed post, get everyone to pile on that, never post again in the same thread. He hasn't even posted in this one.
The same strategy was used by some accounts here during the 2016 election and specific Russia topics relating to it btw. What's missing with him though, is the "I totally agree and this a great post" buddy account(s) to make it seem like an actual conversation and not bullshit spreading. So I'm left with him being a voat troll, just to see how riled up gaf can get.
No idea why he isn't banned yet, but it shouldn't take too long.
However, I was not aware of the IAT's status in terms of method, so the people bringing that up (Crab and others) have my thanks. There is at least some merit is discussing that part.
not really surprised by Germany. they never dealt with their immigrant population, their school system is heavily biased against immigrant and/or poor kids and until 2000 they didn't grant citizenship for children born in Germany. And even after those changes, it still remains one of the most heavily restricted in Europe. so makes sense that bias would be higher compared to countries like Greece or the UK where citizenship by birth is more easily obtained.
edit: hell, this is from a EU report from 2001:
edit: hell, this is from a EU report from 2001:
PdotMichael
Banned
theignoramus
Member
France and Germany more racist towards Blacks than America? GTFO!
Black American soldiers in occupied Germany were treated better in there than they were in America.
The USA refused to even believe Black soldiers possessed the intellectual capacity to fight on the front lines, while France was fielding whole Black African units.
Black Americans fled to France during the Jim Crow era just to retain their fucking sanity.
Show me the pictures of French and Germans standing around having picnics while Black folk swing from trees.
Show me the stats that show hundreds of Black people being shot by cops with no accountability.
Im not excusing Europe's dirt, but this thread is about the Black experience in Europe versus the Black experience in America and one of them involves extensive racist violence and brutally enforced segregation.
Black American soldiers in occupied Germany were treated better in there than they were in America.
The USA refused to even believe Black soldiers possessed the intellectual capacity to fight on the front lines, while France was fielding whole Black African units.
Black Americans fled to France during the Jim Crow era just to retain their fucking sanity.
Show me the pictures of French and Germans standing around having picnics while Black folk swing from trees.
Show me the stats that show hundreds of Black people being shot by cops with no accountability.
Im not excusing Europe's dirt, but this thread is about the Black experience in Europe versus the Black experience in America and one of them involves extensive racist violence and brutally enforced segregation.
theignoramus
Member
Ive read the experiences of Black Americans who travelled abroad (WEB Dubois, Paul Robeson, Nina Simone) and all of them wrote about how significantly less repressive the racial environments in Europe was compared to America.
Whole parts of America for Black people were close to the equivalent of Nazi Germany or Czarist Russia for Jews: the barbaric medical experiments, the racial segregation, the lynchings, the pogroms, the imprisonment, etc: the only thing they werent doing was mass exterminating and that was only because Black labor was a value asset.
Whole parts of America for Black people were close to the equivalent of Nazi Germany or Czarist Russia for Jews: the barbaric medical experiments, the racial segregation, the lynchings, the pogroms, the imprisonment, etc: the only thing they werent doing was mass exterminating and that was only because Black labor was a value asset.
From my experience, people are less racists toward black in France than in the US. Just anecdotal, but black friend grew up in France and went to the US to study and the stories he told me were scary. Basically he was shocked that he had no choice but to hang out with other black people... I think it was somewhere in the south though.
it turns out I misinterpreted the events here.
I was misinformed in thinking that they did assist. An attempt was made however and it looks as if it was squashed because Britain was so out spoken about slavery and cooler heads prevailed in the French government.
Buuuuuut they did get a huge loan from French banks
I guess this technically doesn't count as official support but it still bothered me.
Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order
Member
I will admit though, black Muslims specifically probably have it 10 times worse than non-muslim blacks in many European countries. Islam is usually where the hate goes these days.
If you ignore the fact that black and brown people are being killed by law enforcement almost every day, and are imprisoned and face systemic oppression at levels unheard of in the rest of the Western world; yeah, you too would come to the conclusion that America is a better place for race relations. Also ignore literal Nazis and supremacists holding public rallies and have a President sympathetic to their cause.
People rightfully bash the US for how incredibly racist people in this country can be and how pervasive racism is throughout all forms of government and private establishments. But even then, the USA is pretty much the best place to be as a black person. The majority of the world treats us far worse. I can only imagine how bad a map of Asian countries would look.
PdotMichael
Banned
I read the OP
But there are literally dozens upon dozens of European gaffers who regularly post in threads about racism saying that not only are they not racist but racism is somehow not a thing in Europe. Is it possible I've been lied to or that they are in deep self-denial?
Implicit bias tests are not bunk. People will do anything to discredit the notion that they might be a deeply flawed human being living in a deeply flawed society.
Implicit bias tests are not bunk. People will do anything to discredit the notion that they might be a deeply flawed human being living in a deeply flawed society.
PdotMichael
Banned
Nothing in the source even implies that the study claims Europe (especially the singled out countries in the thread title) is more racist than the USA. A short Google search would even reveal the opposite.
You just went with the bullshit of a well known troll because it was in line with your own prejudices.
chromatic9
Member
Germany's football team has been virtually white while England and France have had black and mixed race players for decades.
I think the penny dropped in Germany with their virtually all white teams and they've been doing a lot lately, a few non whites have broken into the team, 30 years too late but better than never.
I think the penny dropped in Germany with their virtually all white teams and they've been doing a lot lately, a few non whites have broken into the team, 30 years too late but better than never.
No, this isn't some "prejudice". It's well known. You think I should feel more comfortable as a black man going to Russia, Japan, China, Spain, Brazil, Italy, or Bulgaria, etc compared to the US? The world is racist, and ethnically homogenous areas are the worst when it comes to it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I personally have not, but I have a cousin who has worked in many countries as a teacher, including Japan. And he deals with a lot, A LOT, of racism. It is especially bad in the Asian countries he has worked in.
PdotMichael
Banned
Not very well you didn't.
Well you're free to take on the other person's attitude, which was "Japan is fine". I doubt we'd see this shit fly in America though....
Lol, OP, check your sources. Germany scores better than California for example
Holy shit. The BS OP is spouting in his post is beyond ridiculous. What is wrong with you?
Is this shit bannable? Drive by posting a thread with inflammatory language like that with a clear agenda is kinda fucked up imo but I don't see anything in the TOS against it specifically.
Maybe read the first page of the thread. Or even the second.
This is old(ish) news. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1368316
Regardless, this test isn't really going to give you the results you'd want with good accuracy. The test could easily make a non-racist seem racist, take the test for yourself. It's interesting, but not trustworthy at all. The world is obviously racist, and of course some are worst than others, but America's recent past still continues to influence people to be raised racist by racist parents who were raised too, by crackpot racists. America is crazy racist...if you're white and somewhat doubt this, then just ask a black man or woman what racist shit he or she has had to endure in the last year alone. It's fucked. I didn't have perspective until I heard it firsthand from someone who is of color. Couldn't believe I was so ignorant of what minorities go through.
Regardless, this test isn't really going to give you the results you'd want with good accuracy. The test could easily make a non-racist seem racist, take the test for yourself. It's interesting, but not trustworthy at all. The world is obviously racist, and of course some are worst than others, but America's recent past still continues to influence people to be raised racist by racist parents who were raised too, by crackpot racists. America is crazy racist...if you're white and somewhat doubt this, then just ask a black man or woman what racist shit he or she has had to endure in the last year alone. It's fucked. I didn't have perspective until I heard it firsthand from someone who is of color. Couldn't believe I was so ignorant of what minorities go through.
All of this is true. But it doesn't change that ethnically homogenous areas tend to be much worse. And really, this shouldn't be surprising when you take a closer look at humans in general. The tighter knit we can make when it comes to us and them, the thems are treated much worse.
PdotMichael
Banned
Is this a serious post? You think serbians that speak fluent english and spontaneously register to participate in a study about unconscious racism are reptesentative of the general population? Even if this was a simple study of cognitive speed in general their probable superior socioeconomic status would bias the results.
Well, Serbia is ranked 17th in the world in the English Proficiency index with a High Proficiency rating, the same rating as Belgium and Germany, so I think it is a possibility, yes. Its not like only rich people are highly proficient in English with that score.
Again, the article I linked used that same data that was not necessarily represented, but still found that strong correlation.
You can be a upper-middle class person who believes in pluralism and diversity but have high levels of implicit bias due to the culture, its norms, assumptions, beliefs that you and everyone else in your region grew up in.
Implicit bias is quite a bit different than values and beliefs. This is why the IAT has gotten so much shit because while that person who believes in pluralism and diversity might have a high implicit bias score, that person is not very likely to act on it. So what does it measure?
Well, that is the findings from that study I linked
The key point of that new study though is just the sheer fact of a community having a high implicit bias score means that there is a strong correlation of that community committing more racist/prejudiced actions (the action studied was police shootings).
I'm not even talking about superior socio-economic status being linked to more progressive attitudes toward race (even though it wouldn't surprise me if it was, and those studies should be easy to find). I'm talking about the fact that superior socio-economic status is reliably linked with faster cognitive performance, and it says in the article that everyone keeps linking to in this thread that people that are cognitively faster get more neutral results to the test.Add to this the confounding factor of doing any kind of test in a second language (your level of proficienvy becomes a factor), and the well-known fact that words in a foreign language do not have the same emotional impact as words in your mother tongue.
Also, I grew up in an affluent neighborhood south of Paris where all the best French technological universities are located, am currently doing my PhD in mandarin chinese, and the proportion of my childhood friends who wouldn't be embarrassed about doing a linguistic test like this in english is probably around 50%. Take this as you want.
PdotMichael
Banned
As if he will ever post here again.
privitsan02
Member
I'd paint all of it in red from personal experience. In fact, I'm genuinely surprised at the lack of red in some areas.
Best wishes.
Best wishes.
The other 51% like cash-in-hand building work tho, so they like Polish builders too.
This study seems incredibly flawed, but there might be a little truth to it. The US has a spotlight on it and anything bad is immediately shared with the world. But then you have countries like France that have a public image of progressivness despite a history of mistreating migrants.
Racism is a world wide problem.
Racism is a world wide problem.
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