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Sucker Punch Scrapping Infamous 2's Cole MacGrath Model.

A

Akainu

Member
2&2 said:
Exactly. The Cole 2.0 looked 100x more focus tested and tweaked for mass appeal. The original was their original vision for the character.

Good call, Sucker Punch.
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Didn't they admit that they didn't really put much effort into his design? Like why they didn't give him hair.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I loved Raiden. His voice and dialogue in many scenes were cringe-worthy... but I still loved the character and I understood Kojima's vision and the purpose of his role.

Hell, if Cole was replaced with a new character that looked like new Cole, I wouldn't be complaining. If Raiden wasn't Raiden and was instead a new look for Solid Snake, then I'd be bitching.
Click to expand...
I thought Raiden's purpose was that a Konami exec bitched and said 'who the hell wants to play as an old guy!'


edit: ^^^^ well lack of effort or not that's what the character looks like. If they had made the second game with a new character and then had cole fight with or againt this new guy for a third game (which would have been awesome) then ok I get it but there was too much change. OT Is the guy in your avatar Akainu's design origin?
 
U

Unknown One

Member
Akainu said:
Didn't they admit that they didn't really put much effort into his design? Like why they didn't give him hair.
Click to expand...
More like they didn't have enough resources to have hair. That's what was said in the interview. Cole wasn't intended to be bold.

Damn please put hair. Don't have to be bold to be badass.
 
A

Afrikan

Member
well they should keep this Cole in the game as some annoying character who pops up every now and then...who fucks with you during your missions.....who is also super powerful....

there has to be a pissed off designer at SP who would love this idea.
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
Afrikan said:
well they should keep this Cole in the game as some annoying character who pops up every now and then...who fucks with you during your missions.....who is also super powerful....

there has to be a pissed off designer at SP who would love this idea.
Click to expand...

He could have an Ipad that shoots lasers and a cup of Starbucks (Venti, of course)
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
I do not give a shit what design they go with, just gimme a new trailer, give me a release date, give me a demo. I want this game bad!
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
The character design sucked in the original, sucked in the second game reveal, and surely will suck in the final version of the sequel.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
Crewnh said:
I do not give a shit what design they go with, just gimme a new trailer, give me a release date, give me a demo. I want this game bad!
Click to expand...
It's coming next year and it's and instant buy no matter what, nothing to do until then but fight about character design.
 
C

CreativeWriter

Member
There are two solutions here: a) character creation tool (many Coles) and b) use both models.

A) Works in RPGs and fits the whole "choose your path" concept. The only downside is the amount of work Sucker Punch would have to do (lots) to make sure the abominations we create look okay in-game.

B) The two models could be used to represent Cole's two paths. Good Cole's physical appearance is likable (Drake-ish). Evil Cole goes the skinhead route. Are most of the cut-scenes in Infamous 2 dynamic/in-engine like the first game? If so, the comic panel Cole will look stylized anyway--easy to suspend disbelief in those few narrative framing parts that aren't in-engine.

It's also a bit strange to see such a major design decision reversed so quickly, especially when Cole's "new look" was the big focus of the Game Informer cover story. There must have been internal disagreements at Sucker Punch before the new Cole reveal at E3.

Personally, I preferred the newer look (hair = good), though I hate the idea of Cole as a Tony Hawk-like skater-dude superhero. That kind of talk sounds like the pandering companies did in the 90s with vocab like radical, bodacious, and awesome (see Sunny Delight ads). Tapping into the X-game crowd (or at least openly talking about that idea) is lame... really lame. Bike messenger guy (as a concept, not the actual character design) = way cooler everyman.
 
M

marathonfool

Member
There's nothing wrong with adding hair to Cole. It's just the rest of the character design is abominable.

A V-neck T-shirt?
London pants?
Trendy tattoos?

They need to evolve the character design from the ending of the first game. He went through some rough stuff and he shouldn't look like he just walked out of a designer store. Cole should look more like a fighter.
 
corrosivefrost

corrosivefrost

Member
BobTheFork said:
Don't agree with him, you'll just get sucked into the abyss.
I know it does kind of sucks that they ditched an original design for an Extreme Sports star but honestly in the long run...wait no it doesn't!!!! Eff yeah!
I am having a one man party right now, you guys should hang out


yeah this is what I would say if I weren't having a party right now. I remember hearing them say 'well people love the game but hated the character" and I thought where did they hear that and who convinced them it was true? I can't even imagine the awesome game ending speech being said by that character or voice.
Click to expand...

Don't mind if I do.
Got any cold beer around here?
 
U

UntoldDreams

Member
Good grief... Was it really such a problem that they tried to evolve the character away from being a bald space marine?

...And we wonder why we have multiplayer gaming with children running around using dual double barrel shotguns (all while screaming "I'm a bad ass").
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
BobTheFork said:
It was hard to type when I heard the news because I was too busy slamming a beer and doing a moonwalk chicken dance around my laptop.

It's amazing; now both games will have the same protagonist. I think this is the first time I have trolled a gaming decision and it got changed! Now if I can get PSN Plus shut down it'll be my year.
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Yea it was totally you. They didnt have any internal discussions about this at all.

Let me know how the PSN+ thing goes.
 
R

rvy

Banned
Great, no point in having Nathan Drake star in 2 different games.
They should have done a better job designing Cole to begin with, not completely change the character design in the sequel. What a retarded idea. That's like making Master Chief sport a pink skirt, 20 tattoos and a Justin Bieber head of hair in Halo 2. And I didn't even dislike Cole's original design to begin with, he had a cool jacket and shit.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
UntoldDreams said:
Good grief... Was it really such a problem that they tried to evolve the character away from being a bald space marine?

...And we wonder why we have multiplayer gaming with children running around using dual double barrel shotguns (all while screaming "I'm a bad ass").
Click to expand...

It is funny that the whole limp dicked "bald space marine" insult that has spawned this gen has essentially turned from relatively sound commentary on the lack of imagination of developer's game themes, to wide-eyed insanity about anyone being bald, period.

Cole is not a "Bald Space Marine." He is merely bald. There is nothing about Cole that fits the "Bald Space Marine" descriptor except the fact he is bald. His personality is not like the typical machismo bald space marine. He's not decked out in a suit of body armor. He's not "fucking bitches up while listening to rap."


ITT people come up with increasingly bizarre new interpretations of the phrase "BALD SPACE MARINE."
 
B

Big Icarus

Member
How did the new design look less like a bike messenger than that hideous original design? Have the people saying this ever seen a bike messenger? I've never seen any of the ones I know sporting pleather jackets, and pleather cargo pants. Whereas the new design actually kinda looked like a guy who resembled messengers I've seen. And knowing who designed the new Cole, I know he's definitely seen plenty of real life messengers.

Old Cole looked like and Unreal Tournament reject. I hope they don't just do a kneejerk reset back to that, cause that design sucked. Hopefully they give the artist another shot, and he'll come up with something as decent looking that will appease whiny fans. IMO the new Cole was a great design, and kinda made me more interested in this game than I would have been. (I passed on the first because the character looked so ugly. Yeah I'm that fickle.)
 
T

Thrakier

Member
AndyD said:
I think the problem is that we are attached to Cole and we dont want him to get a makeover. Particularly if the story continues.

I have no issue with a new lead character if they want to redesign Cole into a different person, but his personality and character at the end of the first game was not reflected in the new Cole design.
Click to expand...

This.
 
U

UntoldDreams

Member
Amir0x said:
It is funny that the whole limp dicked "bald space marine" insult that has spawned this gen has essentially turned from relatively sound commentary on the lack of imagination of developer's game themes, to wide-eyed insanity about anyone being bald, period.

Cole is not a "Bald Space Marine." He is merely bald. There is nothing about Cole that fits the "Bald Space Marine" descriptor except the fact he is bald. His personality is not like the typical machismo bald space marine. He's not decked out in a suit of body armor. He's not "fucking bitches up while listening to rap."


ITT people come up with increasingly bizarre new interpretations of the phrase "BALD SPACE MARINE."
Click to expand...

Fair enough commentary, though I disagree on the point of Cole not being similar at all. He is a generic "tough guy" design which is more what I was (failing) to highlight.

Personally? I took the new design direction to be "soften the character up" instead of being a generic tough guy. They did take it too far becoming Nathan Drake-ish but I at least was under the impression they wanted to evolve the character.

...And yes I am aware he is not wearing a space powered suit with forcefields although he can generate an electrical polarity wall which acts quite similar.
 
F

fernoca

Member
Though it is funny the usual hyperboles..and the subgroups that are brought into this..
Suddenly, there are fans of the original...real fans..not true fans...as if everyone that liked his new look, suddenly hated the first game...and vice-versa..

Heck, the only thing I hated from the first game, was shown in the cover art that revealed the new look (the bad guys in roofstops with nearly perfect aiming and unlimited ammo).. :p

If there was one thing that needed to change was that...

...or just let people create their own characters..if they had so many doubts about the look of their main character, that so close to release they are still changing his look.."to please fans"..doesn't make sense..
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
UntoldDreams said:
Fair enough commentary, though I disagree on the point of Cole not being similar at all. He is a generic "tough guy" design which is more what I was (failing) to highlight.

Personally? I took the new design direction to be "soften the character up" instead of being a generic tough guy. They did take it too far becoming Nathan Drake-ish but I at least was under the impression they wanted to evolve the character.

...And yes I am aware he is not wearing a space powered suit with forcefields although he can generate an electrical polarity wall which acts quite similar.
Click to expand...

His personality is in the middle between tough and not too tough, squarely because the gameplay demands it. He HAS to veer to "tough guy" territory because it has to be plausible that he can be good or evil (side note: however, the actual execution of this in inFAMOUS 1 was atrocious. The worst good/evil system I've ever seen. The decisions made no fucking sense.)

But in any real sense of the term, he doesn't fit it. Cole is bald, true, but not a space marine. If you hate bald characters, I say: STOP the baldness discrimination! Bald people are humans too.
 
C

CreativeWriter

Member
Big Icarus said:
How did the new design look less like a bike messenger than that hideous original design? Have the people saying this ever seen a bike messenger? I've never seen any of the ones I know sporting pleather jackets, and pleather cargo pants. Whereas the new design actually kinda looked like a guy who resembled messengers I've seen. And knowing who designed the new Cole, I know he's definitely seen plenty of real life messengers.

Old Cole looked like an Unreal Tournament reject. I hope they don't just do a kneejerk reset back to that, cause that design sucked. Hopefully they give the artist another shot, and he'll come up with something as decent looking that will appease whiny fans. IMO the new Cole was a great design, and kinda made me more interested in this game than I would have been. (I passed on the first because the character looked so ugly. Yeah I'm that fickle.)
Click to expand...

Wait, wait, you know bike messengers (more than one)? What exactly do they carry anyway? I understand the need for quick transport of papers in a big city like New York back before the advent of electronic messages and faxes, but what about now? Do they carry around contracts and things that need original signatures? Never understood this.
 
Square Triangle

Square Triangle

Member
And it's good that SP is addressing the moral system too because I do agree the moral system in Infamous 1 was terrible.

CreativeWriter said:
Wait, wait, you know bike messengers (more than one)? What exactly do they carry anyway? I understand the need for quick transport of papers in a big city like New York back before the advent of electronic messages and faxes, but what about now? Do they carry around contracts and things that need original signatures? Never understood this.
Click to expand...

I know A&E or TLC had a special or show dedicated to bike messengers lol. They all looked like bums to me, not any hip cool trendy looking fellas anyways.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
fernoca said:
...or just let people create their own characters..if they had so many doubts about the look of their main character, that so close to release they are still changing his look.."to please fans"..doesn't make sense..
Click to expand...

I would be on board with some customization. Not a character from scratch though. But if they allow tattoos, let us pick what and where. If they want different clothes, let us pick them. And they can build them into the story rather than the traditional build a character before you start a game.

I think most fans would have no problem with Cole's look being able to evolve as his powers and tendencies do. If he's good, maybe he unlocks a nicer clothes shop and a barber shop. If he's bad maybe a grungier more underground feel clothes and tattoo shop and a different barber with different styles. It would really make us feel like he is evolving based on the actions he takes rather than BAM he's all different, new voice, new look, new clothes, new style, essentially a whole new character.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Also I think it's worth making a simple distinction.

Even if you liked Cole's new direction (perfectly acceptable opinion), it is a bad idea because it kills continuity. New Cole looked like an entirely different person. Unless there is some really bizarre story explanation for this, it was a dumb idea to go that radical.

If you dislike the original Cole, again, perfectly acceptable opinion... but now that he is the character of this storyline, it is a poor idea to change it. It makes no sense and takes one out of the universe.
 
F

fernoca

Member
AndyD said:
I would be on board with some customization. Not a character from scratch though. But if they allow tattoos, let us pick what and where. If they want different clothes, let us pick them. And they can build them into the story rather than the traditional build a character before you start a game.

I think most fans would have no problem with Cole's look being able to evolve as his powers and tendencies do. If he's good, maybe he unlocks a nicer clothes shop and a barber shop. If he's bad maybe a grungier more underground fell clothes and tattoo shop and a different barber with different styles. It would really make us feel like he is evolving based on the actions he takes rather than BAM he's all different, new voice, new look, new clothes, new style, essentially a whole new character.
Click to expand...
That would be cool..
People that don't like him bald, put some hair on him..people don't like his generic clothing, then put some jeans and shirts..or whatever..

Tattoos would be cool "ala Fable" like glowing tattoos related to his tendencies and use of powers..
 
U

UntoldDreams

Member
Amir0x said:
His personality is in the middle between tough and not too tough, squarely because the gameplay demands it. He HAS to veer to "tough guy" territory because it has to be plausible that he can be good or evil (side note: however, the actual execution of this in inFAMOUS 1 was atrocious. The worst good/evil system I've ever seen. The decisions made no fucking sense.)

But in any real sense of the term, he doesn't fit it. Cole is bald, true, but not a space marine. If you hate bald characters, I say: STOP the baldness discrimination! Bald people are humans too.
Click to expand...

(I promise to switch to a "Generic Tough Guy" verbiage and drop the discriminatory bald references. Never let it be said I was too stubborn to learn to be a better person.)

On the topic of Good/Evil karma system... yeah I thought it was pretty simplistic at guiding the gameplay.

I could screw up while playing good and was forced to run around healing people until my Karma was raised.

Kill a few innocent people = Heal 20 people on the balance books you come out even.
 
corrosivefrost

corrosivefrost

Member
Amir0x said:
Also I think it's worth making a simple distinction.

Even if you liked Cole's new direction (perfectly acceptable opinion), it is a bad idea because it kills continuity. New Cole looked like an entirely different person. Unless there is some really bizarre story explanation for this, it was a dumb idea to go that radical.

If you dislike the original Cole, again, perfectly acceptable opinion... but now that he is the character of this storyline, it is a poor idea to change it. It makes no sense and takes one out of the universe.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
L

Lindsay

Dot Hacked
Kobun Heat said:
Has anybody figured out what curse word these asterisks are supposed to stand for?

Ass?

Make up your ass mind?
Click to expand...

Futurama said:
Leela: We couldn't disarm the bomb so we reset the word that triggers it.
Amy: It's from the list of words you almost never say.
Bender: That's using your ass.
Click to expand...

Thats my best guess!
 
L

legbone

Member
i'm a fan of the new cole design. i wish they would keep the new design and just go back to the voice actor for the old cole. best of both worlds in my opinion (which someone will surely tell me is wrong, funny how that works).
 
DeVeAn

DeVeAn

Member
Thank God. The new look has that douche bag look. Damn I am mean. I didn't mind the old one plus for consistency sake.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
It was never even the design or voice I was the most angry about. Sure I didn't like it but when I read that quote in Game Informer 2 months ago about trying to make him more into "Tony Hawk with supers powers" it felt insulting.
It was like they did some market research and said "well we know nobody liked Cole because he doesn't have any dominant traits that sku well with 18-35 year olds"
Trying to make him more cool or hip or Xtreme(tm) or mainstream is just watering down the character. I don't want all of my damn super heroes to throw pithy one-liners or go "WOOOOOOOOO" all the time.
Cole felt real because he was angry, beaten down, left, and even betrayed. He started the game with everything he wanted and ended it with only his own power to believe in. New Cole just wants to chill and cruise and down a Go-Gurt
 
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