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[Lister]

It's not the same. Virtual surround =/= proper surround sound. You might get the "directional" aspect of the sound from headphones (even though it's simulated), but what I'm referring to when I say "sounds living in the space" is the soundwave having to travel through 3D space (ie. your room) before it hits your ear. It's even more important the lower you get in frequency. It's just a better, more natural sound.

It's about soundstage plus it being guaranteed to work, more than anythign else.

The soundstage will be wider because, well it's physically wider. And the effect is always going to work because it's using actual speaker positoning to create the soundstage.

You give up accurate positioning though (even 7.1 isn't going to match 3D via headphones), and you also give up 3D positioning (z index - sounds coming from above and below you).

The issue with surround form headphones is that the soundstage will not be as wide for obvious reasons, and most virtual surround sound algorithms make some assumptions about your ears. For some people virtual surround will not work very well for that reason.

 

[Brandon F]

I loathe wearing headphones, but i will certainly argue that they provide superior audio to most any surround setup.

 

[Oresama]

Both

 

[Lister]

Because 3D audio is not some be all end all holy grail of audio. For dynamic range and for actual true surround sound, an actual setup is always better.

There is no way a set of speakers is going to beat a good set of headphones in terms of dynamic range, sans a VERY, VERY controlled environment. Somethign most people probably won't have setup at home.

And 3D audio sure as hell is the holy grail of GAMING audio. Well, 3D positional + physics based acoustics.

 

[Bubbins]

Could GAF recommend some good wireless headphones for gaming? Don't need a mic and would like quality similar to Sony mdr v6. Was looking at steel series arctis 7, but am on the fence.

 

[Lister]

Could GAF recommend some good wireless headphones for gaming? Don't need a mic and would like quality similar to Sony mdr v6. Was looking at steel series arctis 7, but am on the fence.

For gaming and wireless my main concerns would be comfort (battery adds weight), and open ear design for the better soundstage for virtual surround in games.

 

[DarknessTear]

Whenever I wanna test a sound system I just boot up the first Uncharted and sit at the title screen and crank my receiver up. Unf.

Surround all the way.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Could GAF recommend some good wireless headphones for gaming? Don't need a mic and would like quality similar to Sony mdr v6. Was looking at steel series arctis 7, but am on the fence.

For one, steer clear of the 'gaming' brands.

 

[vermadas]

I have a decent 5.1 system with a mid-range Denon receiver. I just run a calibration utility (Audyssey is what Denon uses) to configure speaker distances/levels and, while I'm no audiophile, it sounds great to me. Overwatch is notable for having very distinct hero footsteps and with my system, I can not only tell what enemy hero is getting close outside of my LoS, but also the near-exact direction they are coming from.

 

[Lister]

For one, steer clear of the 'gaming' brands.

Yes and no.

Know that companies use the monicker to try and cater to our demographic, and usually they are overpriced.

Most of the time though "Gamer" just means with mic attached. So long as the quality of the drivers (the actual speakers) is good and youa ren't paying obscene money, I don't see an issue with getting a "gamer" headset.

 

[Drey1082]

The answer to this question depends on a lot of variables. I'm a headphone user, mainly because:

1) I have a wife and kid, so I can't utilize a surround sound setup. I'm sure it would sound incredible, but it would be fairly inconsiderate in my wife's opinion. My open back headphones allow me to listen at a good volume, and still hear my family if they need me.

2) For FPS games, having positional awareness is almost like cheating in certain games. It helps immensely in online shooters and in order to recreate that in surround sound would be a bit of a project.

3) Headphones are fun. Unlike a surround sound setup, due to the cost and ease of use, you can easily get multiple headphones (open back, closed back, wireless, noise cancelling, etc.) for different sound stages and experiences depending on what you're listening to. It's like being able to swap out speakers on the fly. I know having a surround setup allows for a lot of customization too, but i just enjoy trying different pairs of headphones for different experiences and use cases.

And I agree with others who say don't get a "gaming' headset if you can avoid it. You can get much better quality using non-gaming branded headphones.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I've had a good surround sound setup, good surround sound headphones and nice headphones. I think they are all great, and I can't choose between them. They all have their place. I had my surround sound before I got married and had a kid. I had surround sound headphones when living in an apartment and now that I'm in my own house, but have a wife and kid, I find myself using good ear pods, that way I can still hear everything else going on in the room.

 

[LordofPwn]

if you don't have to worry about thin walls and neighbors surround sound is the way to go.

good headphones will suffice but you're going to be missing out on the bass.

i wish to one day have a theater room where i can get the ultimate surround sound system set up.

 

[Cranberrys]

The reason I got when asking about bluray audio mixes vs DVD mixes on enthusiast sites was its viewed more as a home theater enthusiast format (dvds still sell more today) so they try to closely mimic the theatrical audio mixes.

Theater audio is loud as hell. The talking scenes are loud and the action scenes uncomfortably so (to me). So you put that mix on a home format and those of us trying to watch it at normal tv volumes are stuck not being able to hear dialogue if we set it based on the loud scenes or getting our ears blown out/scrambling for the remote to turn it down on action scenes if we turn it up to hear the dialogue.

Changing center and and front speaker volumes individually in the receiver settings helped some, but isn't optimal for sound in dvds and cable that isn't mixed that way.

It's definitely frustrating. I don't know that I'd buy another surround set up when this one dies vs just going with a sound bar with subwoofer. Dealing with the wires when moving and setting up in a new place is always a hassle as well.

I have a soundbar with sub and wireless surround speakers and this problem is also there. The other night I watched John Wick 2 and the sound during the gunfights was tremendously loud : When the movie was quiet I had the volume at 20 and then down to 12 and then back up to 20, etc. Finally, I just activate night mode.

I wonder if there is some receivers that can normalize the sound to a certain amount of volume and leave it to that ?

Or maybe, to really enjoy surround sound at home without waking up the building, I need a dedicated room with a good sound isolation.

 

[rocK`]

This is a great topic - thanks for raising.

Got a question, when I play a game like Overwatch - I swear, either I lack the ability to hear in Stereo or my Siberia x800 wireless headset + Software enabled (think its called Dolby Atmos)

Foot steps / directional audio seems to be lost on me (especially since I'm also on a call with friends through discord or BNet app), but I'm not sure if its a me thing or my setup.

I use USB as my audio input and that could also be the problem (vs using SPDIF).

 

[The Futurist]

Lots of factors come into play here.

No headphones can ever reproduce the true surround nature of individually places speakers.

That being said, speakers will never give you immersion that headphones do unless you are absolutely blasting the volume until nothing else can be heard. You won't get that separation and distance from headphones, but it's a trade off.

Virtual surround is great. Do not ever listen to anyone that tells you any different. People have bad ears, poor hearing, or just don't have the ability to play games while also being able to differentiate sounds in a virtual headphone environment. Go tell someone who plays competitive shooters that they should switch to stereo instead of using virtual surround. They will laugh in your face.

Surround mixes for games are usually great. I've tested countless headphones and many different virtual surround solutions over the years, and for the most part, they have been very good. I haven't played games in stereo sound in over a decade and I'm not about to start.

The best possible option for gaming is getting a decoder/receiver/sound card with dolby headphone or something similar and have an optical/hdmi input that will deliver virtual surround to a nice pair of headphones of your choosing.

My PC has virtual surround and I use a pair of Sennheiser HD650s. I love it. I have a USB mic on my desk and it works great. Stereo sound quality can be great, but you simply do not get directional audio, that breaks immersion for me. I need to be able to hear things happening all around me. For example, I'm playing the witcher 3 right now. It's such an amazing feeling to walk by random people talking in the world and their voices fading behind me as I walk past. Or to hear monsters screaming behind your left shoulder and immediately knowing where it's coming from. Stereo doesn't give you that.

Consoles are a bit trickier because then you get into running cables if you are playing on a tv. Again, it's a trade off. How important is convenience?

I guess it all depends on how seriously you take it. If you are more casual, get yourself a nice surround sound setup and a decent pair of easy to use headphones. Getting the best experience is possible, but it's more complicated.

 

[Ravelle]

Both.

Headphones for when it's night and you want to blast some music or games without waking the house/neighborhood.

Also don't buy surround sound headphones.

 

[deoee]

Having both:

Go with headphones.
Nothing comes even close to immersion with them, only if you really crank up the volume of speakers.
Also placing speakers correctly is a bitch and can have huge impact on the sound quality.

If the headphones are super comfy even watching a movie is nice on them.

Personally I own a Hifiman He-400i and a Fiio E09k+E17 Combo.
My surround setup is a Teufel Concept E Magnum.

 

[HylianTom]

I've had both a decent surround sound system and set of wired headphones, but I've been sticking to a pair of wireless Sennheiser RS 185's lately. I played through Breath of the Wild with them and was quite impressed with how well I could hear ambient nature noises, bokoblin burps, the quieter elements of the game's musical themes, etc. They're going to be my go-to for gaming for a while, I think..

 

[Cornbread78]

Kids and wife or no kids and wife?

LOL, this is exactly it.


surround sound through my Wireless Gold's 4lyfe!

 

[Cranberrys]

It's not the same. Virtual surround =/= proper surround sound. You might get the "directional" aspect of the sound from headphones (even though it's simulated), but what I'm referring to when I say "sounds living in the space" is the soundwave having to travel through 3D space (ie. your room) before it hits your ear. It's even more important the lower you get in frequency. It's just a better, more natural sound.

I understand and I agree with you but the amount of volume necessary to clearly hear the subtle sounds in a domestic surround setup (without a dedicated room) (and in a building full of quiet and nice old people) is a real problem. With headphones, even without pushing the volume, I hear everything very clearly.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

I loathe wearing headphones, but i will certainly argue that they provide superior audio to most any surround setup.

This is factually incorrect though.

You really want to compare sound output through 1 inch speakers versus multiple speakers with 4, 6, 8, 10 or even 12 inch domes? The science doesn't work.

 

[Got the Shakes]

True. Smyth hardware for headphone surround, while amazing, is expensive AF.

If it's fiscally possible

Realiser A16 + HD800S

I actually have a pretty nice 5.1 system setup in my finished basement, but I have a Smyth Realiser A16 preordered (went with the 2U version instead of the headphone stand verion though) and have a pair of HD800 with the SuperDupont mod to use with the Realiser. It is a way more expensive way to go compared to setting up a traditional 5.1 or 7.1 surround setup, but to me it's more versatile as it can support things like 7.1.4 or even in the future 9.X.X setups without ever needing to add any additional speakers. It can be used in just about any environment with minimal disruption, although the HD800 will leak some sound being open back headphones. I realize that this type of setup is incredibly niche, but the thought of being able to do surround through headphones that is indistinguishable from an actual speaker setup was appealing to me.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I have a soundbar with sub and wireless surround speakers and this problem is also there. The other night I watched John Wick 2 and the sound during the gunfights was tremendously loud : When the movie was quiet I had the volume at 20 and then down to 12 and then back up to 20, etc. Finally, I just activate night mode.

I wonder if there is some receivers that can normalize the sound to a certain amount of volume and leave it to that ?

Or maybe, to really enjoy surround sound at home without waking up the building, I need a dedicated room with a good sound isolation.

I understand and I agree with you but the amount of volume necessary to clearly hear the subtle sounds in a domestic surround setup (without a dedicated room) (and in a building full of quiet and nice old people) is a real problem. With headphones, even without pushing the volume, I hear everything very clearly.

Yep, it's really hard to enjoy surround sound if you need to be quiet. It was a bit less of an issue in the DVD era (no idea how mixes are in DVDs today, haven't bought one in a decade) as they were mixed more for home so you could usually set the volume at a level ok for the loud scenes and still hear dialogue fine. With a lot of Bluray mixes trying to mimick the loud ass theater experience, that's usually not the case and it's constant turning the volume up and down as you did, or using a night mode or other range limiting mode or just saying fuck it and playing the stereo mix.

Drives us nuts. We can watch the same movie on a Netflix stream and usually not have the issues with the volume range present in the Bluray surround mix.

We even have a house and really don't need to worry about neighbors and just get annoyed and loud scenes being to loud for us, scaring our dogs etc. Meh. As I said elsewhere I'm just old and curmudgeonly I guess. When I was young and in apartments I couldn't wait to get a house and just blast games and movies, and now I don't want to and lean toward just ditching surround and going with a soundbar or simple stereo audio to not have to be constantly fussing with volume when watching movies. Gaming I've already went to soundbar or headphones (if my fiance is home).

 

[Augemitbutter]

always proper surround sound or a nice stereo setup for older consoles. you'll be in heaven.

headphones are good if you don't want disturb other people, i wouldn't wear them over long gaming sessions otherwise.

i actually consume music via a proper headphone setup most of the time. wearing them on top of that for gaming would be ghastly.

 

[Cranberrys]

Could GAF recommend some good wireless headphones for gaming? Don't need a mic and would like quality similar to Sony mdr v6. Was looking at steel series arctis 7, but am on the fence.

Sony MDR-HW700DS are incredible wireless headphones : 3 HDMI inputs, 1 HDMI output, 1 analog input, 1 optical input, 1 optical output. It's compatible with nearly every audio streams (except Dolby Atmos) : Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS HD, LPCM 2.0, LPCM 5.1, LPCM 7.1. There's also a Dolby Headphone & DTS X Headphone matrix modes and so on.

It's expansive but awesome.

In a more controlled budget, The Turtle Beach Stealth 500p & Stealth 520p are very nice headphones. It's cheap plastic but the DTS X Headphone works really well, they have 50mm drivers, they go very loud (way more than the Sony Golds or even the Sony Platinums) but with no saturation. They are kinda crappy with music in stereo mode, but very convincing with movies and games and the battery life is really good.

 

[Ushay]

They are both great, but with wife and kids I lean towards headphones for privacy, plus I feel like I can dial it up and hear sounds I would never get out the system.

I believe 'surround' on headphones can sound quite nice.

Before I got headphones I never really appreciated just how much top sound improves the experience.

 

[Lister]

This is factually incorrect though.

You really want to compare sound output through 1 inch speakers versus multiple speakers with 4, 6, 8, 10 or even 12 inch domes? The science doesn't work.

You do realize that given the speakers are right next to your ear, they don't need 12 inch drivers to replicate the same dynamic range... right?

 

[ghibli99]

I live in an apartment right now, so any decent sound system is going to be a nuisance to everyone, so I just have a pair of good open back Sennheisers for everything. I used to be big into home A/V, but until I'm in an actual home again, that's on hold. I'd like to try out a Schiit stack though to see what kind of difference they make.

 

[sleazefrenzy]

If you have the space and don't live in a house where noise is an issue a decent 5.1 is much more satisfying than any headphones. A good pair of headphones are a decent substitute though if not.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

Had a full surround sound going for several years. It sounded great, but was cumbersome for various reasons. When we moved I replaced it with a really good Samsung sound bar and couldn't be happier. It has a wireless sub woofer and the ability to add wireless rears if I want.

Will never invest in a receiver and full 7.1 again.

 

[Waikis]

I actually have a pretty nice 5.1 system setup in my finished basement, but I have a Smyth Realiser A16 preordered (went with the 2U version instead of the headphone stand verion though) and have a pair of HD800 with the SuperDupont mod to use with the Realiser. It is a way more expensive way to go compared to setting up a traditional 5.1 or 7.1 surround setup, but to me it's more versatile as it can support things like 7.1.4 or even in the future 9.X.X setups without ever needing to add any additional speakers. It can be used in just about any environment with minimal disruption, although the HD800 will leak some sound being open back headphones. I realize that this type of setup is incredibly niche, but the thought of being able to do surround through headphones that is indistinguishable from an actual speaker setup was appealing to me.

Still needs a place that that lets you record the PRIR though.Might be okay in the States, but it was difficult as hell to find a good surround setup in Aus.One of the main reason why I sold my original Realiser.

 

[Kambing]

May i ask what your budget is?

I feel that if it's less than $1500 you're much better off investing in a high-end headphone system versus a 5.1 set up. You will hear things you never did before, and they'll be at a quality that is hard to match for speakers that cost less than $1.5-4k a piece IMO.

For example the HD 800s that has been mentioned is comprable to a 5.1 setup that would cost 7-10k... comfy as hell also.

 

[leng jai]

What's with people saying speakers are better value than headphones? In most cases the opposite is true.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Still needs a place that that lets you record the PRIR though.Might be okay in the States, but it was difficult as hell to find a good surround setup in Aus.One of the main reason why I sold my original Realiser.

Yeah obviously having access to nice surround setups is key. Luckily I have access to my own 5.1, and at least a few 7.1 systems to make some PRIRs. I am curious to see how their Realiser Exchange ends up working out too.

 

[norm9]

I got neighbors, if you got neighbors, headphones is the answer. Ear sweat and fatigue sucks though.

I live in an apartment right now, so any decent sound system is going to be a nuisance to everyone, so I just have a pair of good open back Sennheisers for everything. I used to be big into home A/V, but until I'm in an actual home again, that's on hold. I'd like to try out a Schiit stack though to see what kind of difference they make.

This is where I'm at. I'd love to splurge on some speakers, but I have downstairs neighbors. That will come when I live without shared walls.

Anyone with shared walls should not be blasting their 7.1 or whatever sound system. And if you can't blast them, what's the point?

 

[SirMossyBloke]

You do realize that given the speakers are right next to your ear, they don't need 12 inch drivers to replicate the same dynamic range... right?

And then you lose your soundstage. Not a good compromise.

 

[Lister]

And then you lose your soundstage. Not a good compromise.

Well, no, you don't lose it, it just comes in closer.