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[RedlineRonin]

Do we have measured input lag yet for the A1E other than that French review?

 

[Kyoufu]

While I agree, having another resource reviewing is always good. HDTVtest has really uped their video production while always having a great written review.

He sites I use mainly are rtings, AVS, AV, and HDTVtest. Sometimes flatpanelshd but I appreciate all of them

I'm not criticising their video reviews or summaries or whatever they are, just that Canada demo loop they always play on the TVs. There's barely any colour.

 

[TheBoss1]

Sony A1E Motion handling while gaming

 

[Trojita]

Sony A1E Motion handling while gaming

I think I found my next TV.

 

[dallow_bg]

Sony A1E Motion handling while gaming

Seems like the usual "Motion Flow" that I've had on previous TVs including Sony.
Doesn't this always introduce artifacts? It's never looked natural to me.

I just need the real reviews already for this thing.

 

[vpance]

So the guy is gaming with MotionFlow on?

"no perceivable lag input (probably if you are a pro gamer you will but you wouldn't be playing competitively on a television you'd be on a 120hz TN panel)"

K sure.

 

[ShapeGSX]

So the guy is gaming with MotionFlow on?

"no perceivable lag input (probably if you are a pro gamer you will but you wouldn't be playing competitively on a television you'd be on a 120hz TN panel)"

K sure.

There are two settings in Motionflow on this TV. One is Smoothness and the other is Clearness.

Smoothness is set to Min on his TV.
Clearness is set to High.

I am not sure what each of these settings do. On my older LCD TV, Clearness was always associated with flickering the backlight, but not with frame interpolation.

But each TV has its own ways that these settings affect the display. I wouldn't expect an OLED to necessarily match what an LCD does with these settings.

 

[Trojita]

Forbes Review is up for the Sony A1E

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/04/19/sony-xbr-55a1e-xd-55a1e-a1e-4k-oled-tv-review-where-brains-and-beauty-meet/#6f73fd328da7

The 55A1E's processing also delivers superior motion handling to not just LG's OLED TVs but actually any other TVs period. The ability of its various motion settings - especially True Cinema and Standard - to reduce judder without causing significant unwanted side effects or making the image look unnaturally fluid is almost uncanny.

It's not just your impression of motion across the screen and during camera pans that benefits from this motion performance either; the enhanced motion clarity and fluidity also means the beautiful crispness associated with native 4K screens remains intact even during the most action-packed sequences.

LG has delivered palpable color improvements with its latest OLED TVs, yet in most ways colors are handled better still by the 55A1E. Sony's Triluminos processing system continues to take some beating, combining gorgeously rich saturations with some exceptionally deft color tone handling.

The 55A1E also improves on LG's OLED TVs when it comes to handling HD-resolution images. As noted earlier, Sony's X1 Extreme chipset applies two separate databases to its upscaling process, and the result is simply the most detailed, stable, richly colored but also noiseless upscaled HD pictures I've seen on an OLED TV. In fact, I'd even say they look better than those of the Z9D sets, perhaps because OLED's characteristics are more naturally suited to the standard dynamic range luminance ranges associated with HD sources.

Return of the king.

Seems the biggest issues is that it might not get quite as bright as the LG E7's by about 100 NITS and the input lag at 40ms.

Here's what he says specifically about the lag

One last slight picture disappointment regards the 55A1E's input lag (the time it takes to render image data). I measured it at around 40ms when using both the HDR and SDR game modes - a solid rather than exemplary figure. It's worth noting, too, that the input lag cycles, varying from as low as just under 10ms to as high as 51ms - and the 51ms figures are in the majority.

 

[RedlineRonin]

Forbes Review is up for the Sony A1E

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/04/19/sony-xbr-55a1e-xd-55a1e-a1e-4k-oled-tv-review-where-brains-and-beauty-meet/#6f73fd328da7





Return of the king.

Seems the biggest issues is that it might not get quite as bright as the LG E7's by about 100 NITS and the input lag at 40ms.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm hoping to pick up the 65" next month and 40ms is better than the mid 50's on my ST60 now, and the NITS thing I hardly see as a deal breaker.

Glad it's shaping up to be an all around great set.

E: Just saw your edit about the lag. I imagine that has to be the trade off to having the X1 Extreme processor right? more processing = better image = more latency?

 

[Lima]

I love this color talk when the Sony doesn't even come with a CMS LUL

 

[Ascenion]

Forbes Review is up for the Sony A1E

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/04/19/sony-xbr-55a1e-xd-55a1e-a1e-4k-oled-tv-review-where-brains-and-beauty-meet/#6f73fd328da7





Return of the king.

Seems the biggest issues is that it might not get quite as bright as the LG E7's by about 100 NITS and the input lag at 40ms.

Here's what he says specifically about the lag

If only LG held the same standards for their panels as they do for the ones they make for other people. Since I'm pretty sure they made the A1E panel.

 

[Yappadappadu]

While BFI would be nice, thankfully, I'm not that bothered by motion as others, so lower input lag is more important to me.
So this year's Sony OLED is not for me, unfortunately. The 21 ms of the 2017 LG OLED's offer a clear advantage to me.

 

[Caayn]

Forbes Review is up for the Sony A1E

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/04/19/sony-xbr-55a1e-xd-55a1e-a1e-4k-oled-tv-review-where-brains-and-beauty-meet/#6f73fd328da7

Return of the king.

Seems the biggest issues is that it might not get quite as bright as the LG E7's by about 100 NITS and the input lag at 40ms.

Here's what he says specifically about the lag

I can't seem to find any numbers about input latency with motion handling/improvement/etc enabled nor did I see any number about colour accuracy.

 

[Trojita]

Seems like the usual "Motion Flow" that I've had on previous TVs including Sony.
Doesn't this always introduce artifacts? It's never looked natural to me.

I just need the real reviews already for this thing.

So the guy is gaming with MotionFlow on?

"no perceivable lag input (probably if you are a pro gamer you will but you wouldn't be playing competitively on a television you'd be on a 120hz TN panel)"

K sure.

I think the custom thing he has on with clearness to high is different than interpolation associated with MotionFlow.

While BFI would be nice, thankfully, I'm not that bothered by motion as others, so lower input lag is more important to me.
So this year's Sony OLED is not for me, unfortunately. The 21 ms of the 2017 LG OLED's offer a clear advantage to me.

20ish would be real nice, but the 40ms or so on my VT60 isn't bad.

I really wonder how many of us could tell the difference between 20ms and 40ms in a blind test.

 

[RedlineRonin]

I think the custom thing he has on with clearness to high is different than interpolation associated with MotionFlow.



20ish would be real nice, but the 40ms or so on my VT60 isn't bad.

I really wonder how many of us could tell the difference between 20ms and 40ms in a blind test.

This is where I'm at. Not playing MLG CS:GO over here...

 

[Jigolo]

I'm not criticising their video reviews or summaries or whatever they are, just that Canada demo loop they always play on the TVs. There's barely any colour.

Oh yeah, lol. I've noticed that. They always use the same video. And I always see the James Bond movie for rtings testing. I wonder why? lol

 

[tokkun]

I really wonder how many of us could tell the difference between 20ms and 40ms in a blind test.

I don't think it is really a problem with human perception capabilities, but more about the type of game you are playing. Back when I used to play StepMania, I could easily detect when the note delay was off down to about 15 ms on a CRT. The difference between 20 ms and 40 ms would be obvious. However, most games are not nearly so latency-sensitive. It would probably be hard to notice that difference in Persona 5.

 

[Brandson]

The only issue I can see with the A1E is in wall-mounting it. Since there is all that hardware behind the screen, there will be quite a large gap between the tv and the wall. I hope Sony comes up with a design that doesn't have that problem for next year.

 

[dallow_bg]

I think the custom thing he has on with clearness to high is different than interpolation associated with MotionFlow.

The "smoothness" setting is still turned on though.
Either way, using those settings in any combination has to introduce artifacts, in varying degrees of course.

I like the sound of the upscaling quality. Glad reviews are coming in.

 

[nillapuddin]

Congrats, you bought a great TV

Much thanks, I'm very excited, a bit nervous, but excited.

 

[Theonik]

I love this color talk when the Sony doesn't even come with a CMS LUL

Sony sets haven't really needed it considering they hit near perfect calibration with just grayscale. 10 point adjustment would be nice by isn't needed.

 

[Madness]

If people can't be civil discussing Bluray players we will start banning. Jesus.

There was only one person who took it out of control even resorting to personal attacks and generally just trollish behavior.

As for the A1E, 40 ms wouldn't be bad. Sony is able to bring their input lag down if they wanted to. I mean the B6 prior to the update to reduce input lag, people were playing with higher than 60 ms in HDR weren't they?

 

[BlitzerRadic]

There are two settings in Motionflow on this TV. One is Smoothness and the other is Clearness.

Smoothness is set to Min on his TV.
Clearness is set to High.

I am not sure what each of these settings do. On my older LCD TV, Clearness was always associated with flickering the backlight, but not with frame interpolation.

But each TV has its own ways that these settings affect the display. I wouldn't expect an OLED to necessarily match what an LCD does with these settings.

Clearness inserts black frames. You can tell because he turned on xtended dynamic range on to high to compensate for the loss of brightness due to BFI.

 

[Weevilone]

OPPO UDP-203 vs Panasonic DMP-UB900: Picture Quality Comparison

Winner: UB900

This is Digital Foundry level scrutiny, but even in YT you can easily see the difference. Like the video says if you're going to pay that much these kinds of differences are noteworthy.

It's very much still a situation in flux on the Oppo side. The Panasonic product is in a much more stable phase of its life cycle than the Oppo. As he mentions, the chroma handling is subtle, and I think we'll continue to see improvement with additional firmware releases. It is also important too consider that the video is detailing chroma conversion from 4:2:0 10 bit to whatever he's using with his particular equipment. Performance may vary with your gear.

The HDR->SDR handling is more significant, but only if you don't have a proper UHD display. Basically if you need to worry about this, you know it. I think that'll improve too, but the strip metadata feature has been described as experimental, so who knows how that will shake out.

I did some fast forwarding thru the video and didn't notice if he mentioned which firmware releases he was testing with. There were some anecdotal claims of image quality improvement with the Oppo 4/6 release. I personally did not notice any difference.

The bottom line is that you should buy the Oppo if you value build quality, local network streaming, Dolby Vision, and universal disk playback. Those are the differentiating features.. and maybe someday the strip metadata adds to that list.. If you just need a basic player, or want streaming apps then you need to look elsewhere.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

This is the area that really bothers me with OLED and HDR.

"In fact, there are times in Cinema and Cinema Pro mode where you find yourself questioning if the TV is delivering HDR at all."


Destroys the dream.

 

[Yappadappadu]

I'm also not sure what to think about the following Forbes article quote:

One last slight picture disappointment regards the 55A1E's input lag (the time it takes to render image data). I measured it at around 40ms when using both the HDR and SDR game modes - a solid rather than exemplary figure. It's worth noting, too, that the input lag cycles, varying from as low as just under 10ms to as high as 51ms - and the 51ms figures are in the majority.

The input lag cycles? Reminds me of the B6 before that was patched.

 

[vpance]

This is the area that really bothers me with OLED and HDR.

"In fact, there are times in Cinema and Cinema Pro mode where you find yourself questioning if the TV is delivering HDR at all."


Destroys the dream.

Yeah they just gimped the cinema modes for some reason. Standard is brighter but less accurate. My TV is like that too but thankfully there's a way around that in the service menu.

All in all, I'd say get this TV if SDR is your main priority. SDR movies in particular..

 

[vpance]

It's very much still a situation in flux on the Oppo side. The Panasonic product is in a much more stable phase of its life cycle than the Oppo. As he mentions, the chroma handling is subtle, and I think we'll continue to see improvement with additional firmware releases. It is also important too consider that the video is detailing chroma conversion from 4:2:0 10 bit to whatever he's using with his particular equipment. Performance may vary with your gear.

The HDR->SDR handling is more significant, but only if you don't have a proper UHD display. Basically if you need to worry about this, you know it. I think that'll improve too, but the strip metadata feature has been described as experimental, so who knows how that will shake out.

I did some fast forwarding thru the video and didn't notice if he mentioned which firmware releases he was testing with. There were some anecdotal claims of image quality improvement with the Oppo 4/6 release. I personally did not notice any difference.

The bottom line is that you should buy the Oppo if you value build quality, local network streaming, Dolby Vision, and universal disk playback. Those are the differentiating features.. and maybe someday the strip metadata adds to that list.. If you just need a basic player, or want streaming apps then you need to look elsewhere.

If you must have a guarantee of DV support then yes, the Oppo is the way to go.

Playback quality wise Panny seems to have nailed it across the board in their lineup, which makes their 2017 low end models pretty enticing since they're all using the same video processing.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Yeah they just gimped the cinema modes for some reason. Standard is brighter but less accurate. My TV is like that too but thankfully there's a way around that in the service menu.

All in all, I'd say get this TV if SDR is your main priority. SDR movies in particular..

OLED is in need of an major breakthrough, in regards to the panel handling more volts thus increasing brightness, without killing it within a few months! But with only LG making them, it's actually quite an issue.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

Need exact input lag numbers with BFI on the A1E. I also worry how it will look on 30fps content.

 

[taybul]

Just pulled the trigger on the B6 for $1500 on ebay. So excited! Now I have to find a good UHD player since I just read that the PS4 Pro doesn't have one.

 

[vpance]

OLED is in need of an major breakthrough, in regards to the panel handling more volts thus increasing brightness, without killing it within a few months! But with only LG making them, it's actually quite an issue.

By the time they figure it out, some better alternative will be right on their heels like the real QLED or MicroLED.

Anyways, it'll be interesting to see what kind of advancements they'll make next year.

 

[PrimeRib_]

So the guy is gaming with MotionFlow on?

"no perceivable lag input (probably if you are a pro gamer you will but you wouldn't be playing competitively on a television you'd be on a 120hz TN panel)"

K sure.

I assume Motionflow (across all Sony models) adds latency. avforums indicated as such earlier today in their review of the X930E someone posted above, and I quote:
"It's important to use the Game mode, the other modes increase the lag to over 100ms. You should also avoid using the Motionflow frame interpolation feature because even in Game mode this will increase the input lag to over 100ms."

 

[Erebus]

Reposting since no one bothered to answer me the last time.

I'm looking to buy a new TV, mostly for gaming purposes but unfortunately I'm on a strict budget of less than 500€.

I know my choices are limited but any help would be appreciated.

Also, any thoughts on this LG model? http://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-43UH603V

 

[Ocho]

I talked about it awhile back, as I got one when it launched.

It's a perfectly good top-shelf Blu-ray player and the 4K UHD playback has the neat trick of having a slider you can adjust to change how the HDR to SDR conversion works if your 4K TV isn't HDR.

Good to hear!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I love this color talk when the Sony doesn't even come with a CMS LUL

High end Sony TVs don't come with a CMS because they literally don't need them. From the factory they are already accurate to DeltaE below human perception.

Forbes Review is up for the Sony A1E

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/04/19/sony-xbr-55a1e-xd-55a1e-a1e-4k-oled-tv-review-where-brains-and-beauty-meet/#6f73fd328da7





Return of the king.

Seems the biggest issues is that it might not get quite as bright as the LG E7's by about 100 NITS and the input lag at 40ms.

Here's what he says specifically about the lag

It uses the same X1 Extreme processor as the Z9D so I would expect input lag to similar to Z9D which has also been measured in the 40 ms range.

If you care more about the best image quality and don't play fighting games, 40 ms input lag is not a deal breaker. Image processing is not and never will be temporally "free" because good image processing will always have a temporal element.

 

[III-V]

I love this color talk when the Sony doesn't even come with a CMS LUL

Sony sets haven't really needed it considering they hit near perfect calibration with just grayscale. 10 point adjustment would be nice by isn't needed.

High end Sony TVs don't come with a CMS because they literally don't need them. From the factory they are already accurate to DeltaE below human perception.

The colors are great out of the box, but I would really love to have a working CMS on all sets, particularly now that no set can reach full BT.2020.

There is really not a good excuse, at for any set over 1k not to have this feature, IMO.

 

[J-Rzez]

I have the 2017 X800 Sony UHD player and it is the best in its price range. The Xbox is more of a swiss army knife. The samsung player is sluggish and wonky, just like the Phillips. The panasonic and OPPO will be a touch better but theyre basically double the price. The Sony is fast, quiet, not wonky at all. Color is great, good options. Its pretty big though. I still didn't get to play around with the LG UHD player, nor know anyone with it.

Next, please don't buy a sub-$200 soundbar for a tv like the B6. Audio is just as important and overlooked.

I assumed the A1E would trump the LG overall outside of lag. Waiting to see them side by side then picking one.

 

[Gitaroo]

High end Sony TVs don't come with a CMS because they literally don't need them. From the factory they are already accurate to DeltaE below human perception.



It uses the same X1 Extreme processor as the Z9D so I would expect input lag to similar to Z9D which has also been measured in the 40 ms range.

If you care more about the best image quality and don't play fighting games, 40 ms input lag is not a deal breaker. Image processing is not and never will be temporally "free" because good image processing will always have a temporal element.

Z9d 4k input lag is 27ms, 1080p is around 40ms, x1 extreme does a lot of processingon low quality source like debanding etc.

 

[holygeesus]

I notice Sony have the 65" Z9D for the same price now as the 55" A1E over here. Have to be honest and admit I'm not sure which of those I'd choose for the price, if I had to have Sony.

 

[Alfredo_V]

Been thinking quite some time to upgrade to a LG B6 (along with a new receiver) but HDMI 2.1 totally stopped me in my plans. HDMI 2.1 seems like a game changer in many areas right? But also how long before I can use the bandwith/new tech? it does seem far away even if new standard comes next year.

 

[HooYaH]

Been thinking quite some time to upgrade to a LG B6 (along with a new receiver) but HDMI 2.1 totally stopped me in my plans. HDMI 2.1 seems like a game changer in many areas right? But also how long before I can use the bandwith/new tech? it does seem far away even if new standard comes next year.

I believe next year will have some half ass stuff capabilities for HDMI 2.1 (one HDMI 2.1 slot) and slowly add more capabilities/functions the following year (2019+). HDMI 2.1 is the new "thing with each manufacturer having a different name for Variable Refresh Rate" to sell.

 

[Weevilone]

Return of the king.

Don't tease.. Pioneer isn't back.

 

[Sky Chief]

Don't tease.. Pioneer isn't back.

This made me sad

 

[Alfredo_V]

I believe next year will have some half ass stuff capabilities for HDMI 2.1 (one HDMI 2.1 slot) and slowly add more capabilities/functions the following year (2019+). HDMI 2.1 is the new "thing with each manufacturer having a different name for Variable Refresh Rate" to sell.

But I should wait right? Nothing is broken I'm just tired of the "waiting game" gaming and watching movies in 1080p.

 

[Caayn]

Tweakers.net review of the Sony A1 (Dutch, sorry).

Brightness:
- 169nit/ 100% white
- 291nit / 50% white
- 477nit / 25% white
- 745nit / 10% white

Input lag: (They don't mention what settings they used to achieve this input lag, also they mention that there's no difference between HDR and SDR on this front).
- 31ms / 2160p/60Hz
- 47ms / 1080p/60Hz

Been thinking quite some time to upgrade to a LG B6 (along with a new receiver) but HDMI 2.1 totally stopped me in my plans. HDMI 2.1 seems like a game changer in many areas right? But also how long before I can use the bandwith/new tech? it does seem far away even if new standard comes next year.

We know that at least one HDMI 2.1 capable device is launching this year. And even for 4K displays it'll have an impact thanks to support for:

- 10 and 12 bit RGB at 4K/60Hz (Great for HDR)
- 10 and 12 bit with 4:4:4: chroma subsampling at 4K/60Hz. (Great for HDR)
- Variable refresh rate.
- 4K/120Hz.
- Improved ARC capabilities.

If you can hold out till 2018 with your current set I'd recommend to wait. HDMI 2.1 will be one of those changes that doesn't come along often.

 

[Alfredo_V]

We know that at least one HDMI 2.1 capable device is launching this year. And even for 4K displays it'll have an impact thanks to support for:

- 10 and 12 bit RGB at 4K/60Hz (Great for HDR)
- 10 and 12 bit with 4:4:4: chroma subsampling at 4K/60Hz. (Great for HDR)
- Variable refresh rate.
- 4K/120Hz.
- Improved ARC capabilities.

If you can hold out till 2018 with your current set I'd recommend to wait. HDMI 2.1 will be one of those changes that doesn't come along often.

Some very solid points there. Thanks. Yeah, it feels smarter to wait at this point.

 

[wege12]

After seeing how well the Sony OLED handles motion while gaming compared to my B6, I must say I'm a bit jealous.

 

[sector4]

I notice Sony have the 65" Z9D for the same price now as the 55" A1E over here. Have to be honest and admit I'm not sure which of those I'd choose for the price, if I had to have Sony.

Depending on what type of content you anticipate you'd be watching I'd go OLED for mainly SDR viewing and Z9D for mainly HDR viewing.

 

[TI82]

Just upgraded to an ultra-wide monitor. Really liking it though not all my games support the resolution which is weird.