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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
SoC is already updated since last models in 2016 lineup and is "fine" now... it is still Android, so it has a lot of baggage but at the same time, it has million apps and support forever vs proprietary OSs that will eventually just discontinue some apps.
So I can deal with it and I actually want to get next TV as Android TV.
I dont want to have to run best apps via outside source, Android TV is best bet for that. I have base Samsung 58" smart tv now and having ability to use native plex and others is a great extra, but for half a year HBO GO disappeared from it and I had to use inferior cable box for it, it was pretty annoying and i just ended up not watching it.
Not at all, the MT 5891 is still very weak as hell. The MT 5890 from before was released in 2014 and they were using it for their 2015-2016 models. Only starting with the x800d they switch to the MT5891, which they promised for the 2016 Models at CES and they lied. For something that cost as much as the Z9D, A1E and even the 940E should have much better SoC than those shit tier SoC from mediatek.
Okami Haundo
Member
I popped into my local Best Buy yesterday to check out the LG B6 and it ruined me... I just bought our 1080p Sony about three years ago and now I can't look at it the same way. The picture just seems dull now that I've experienced true greatness. Time to start saving!
holygeesus
Banned
The PS4 Pro outputs 2160p 100% of the time, whether games take advantage of the resolution or not. I expect Scorpio to be no different. Hell, even my Sky Q box outputs at 2160p.
Art Vandilay
Member
Yeah that's how it got me too. It's worth it though in my opinion, especially if you can get a deal.
Yappadappadu
Member
Well, as we know from other reviews, it looks like their assumption is WRONG, as it's actually abt. 31 ms instead of 20 ms.
Chris_Rivera
Member
Damn, so it seems the A1E lag is double the LG 2017? I'm also concerned how well the BFI performs with 30fps content, flicker and such.
If I'm going to buy a TV for gaming, the lower input lag seems a no brainer. I can't in good conscience pay more for more lag...hopefully Leo tests can be done soon and resolve this.
If I'm going to buy a TV for gaming, the lower input lag seems a no brainer. I can't in good conscience pay more for more lag...hopefully Leo tests can be done soon and resolve this.
Aztechnology
Member
I'm really excited I've been waiting too damn long. I really hope Nvidia helps push adaptive sync as an option too. The standard needs all the support it can get and is such a cool feature for gamers especially. But honestly viewers from all budget groups. Adaptive sync can eliminate pulldown judder in sets that aren't in proper refresh divisibles afterall.
holygeesus
Banned
The advantage of improved motion is more significant than slightly more laggy input lag IMO. We are talking a difference of 10ms.
Stopped in BB....
Just got the A1e in...
My God
Chopped it up with the Sony rep for like 25 minutes. Going back and forth between the Z9D and the A1E. He was actually making the case for the Z9 as the better overall tv and I gotta admit..That mf may be the best looking LCD ever. The blacks weren't THAT far off from the A1e, but the bright content he showed...You could see the difference.
Saw Horizon on that A1e and almost fell out
It's basically 6 racks after tax for both of them
Just got the A1e in...
My God
Chopped it up with the Sony rep for like 25 minutes. Going back and forth between the Z9D and the A1E. He was actually making the case for the Z9 as the better overall tv and I gotta admit..That mf may be the best looking LCD ever. The blacks weren't THAT far off from the A1e, but the bright content he showed...You could see the difference.
Saw Horizon on that A1e and almost fell out
It's basically 6 racks after tax for both of them
Beer Monkey
Member
And I just listed a ton of devices I use that don't.
REAL gamers don't limit themselves to one or two recent platforms.
Beer Monkey
Member
1) Notice the wink.
2) Gain some self-awareness. You've been the designated prick of the thread lately with your shitposts.
To be fair 40 ms is still pretty damn good for most games out there.
If I didn't already have an E6 already I'd opt for the A1E, for sure.
The only real con I see with the A1E is the Android OS. While it's functional it's just not a great experience.
Once HDMI 2.1 rolls out and PS5 is on the horizon I'll be looking to upgrade to a Sony OLED if they're still making them in a few years. Hopefully by then they'll sort out their OS...
The only real con I see with the A1E is the Android OS. While it's functional it's just not a great experience.
Once HDMI 2.1 rolls out and PS5 is on the horizon I'll be looking to upgrade to a Sony OLED if they're still making them in a few years. Hopefully by then they'll sort out their OS...
holygeesus
Banned
And I just listed a ton of devices I use that don't.
REAL gamers don't limit themselves to one or two recent platforms.
Damn, I haven't got enough time to play all the recent games let alone consider older platforms
FrankNitty
Member
I'm in the same boat as you. I have already started checking prices on the 65A1E. I have no issues with my 65E6 but the improved motion is swaying me. My biggest issue/concern with the Sony is the OS. WebOS is by far the best user experience I have every had with a Smart TV platform. Also I kind of hate the idea of losing 3D. Granted I do not use it often but when I do my god is it good.
I could just sell my ZT60 and go with the A1 and move the E6 to the bedroom. Plus the price may fall some as well which may be enough to sway me
TheBoss1
Member
And as it has been proven, they can reduce input lag through a firmware update. It's not guaranteed but Sony did reduce the lag on the X850D last year, from 93 ms to 57 ms in 4K. That's still not great but this proves they can address it.
Sony X850D Input Lag
TheBoss1
Member
Sony A1E Motion handling while gaming
I'm not sure how credible his settings are for picture accuracy but this guy claims it's the best.
Eclectic Sk3ptic
Member
Got to spend a little quality time with an A1E at a local retailer's dark room, and I am now seriously considering replacing my 65" B6 with one of those. Input lag is higher, but everything else seems to be a step up. Most notably motion, and the much improved near-black gradation, which is something that's always bothered me about the B6. Now I just need to find a compatible vesa stand for it.
Glorious Ownage
Member
Are there any comparisons to the C7 or 7 series LG line versus the new A1E? I will probably be using this tv for gaming at least 50% of the time with FPS and online games being the vast majority of the type of games played so input lag in the 40s+ is a little disconcerting, especially if I consider hooking up my pc to it as well
Reviews for both series are just starting to pop up. I would think another month and we'll have a pretty clear picture of their pros and cons.
Chris_Rivera
Member
It does look like the best, but it's not enough to be certain. First, he's playing a side scroller, which is different than online fps. Also, I'm not sure if it's 60fps, because I heard the BFI (avsforum) can cause flicker on 30fps content on this display.
Since you already have an E6 I'd wait for HDMI 2.1 to come out first before spending another $4-6k on an OLED. You don't really need it right now, but when 2.1 rolls out? Yeah, definitely going to be something to consider then.
Chris_Rivera
Member
You also have to realize that content for the 2.1 features probably won't even be considerable until the 2019 models release.
TheBoss1
Member
Guy seems like he has the income to support such spending habits. Time to step my game up lol
What about platformers? Those feel terrible with input lag. Rhythm games too. And Shmups.
Pretty much any 60fps game that you want to feel smooth will feel slugish at 40ms input lag.
Its never been too bothersome to me and I beat La Mulana on my old ass TV which doesn't even have 40 ms input Lag. It's probably a YMMV thing that some people notice far more than others. I grew up playing all manner of janky games with tech issues and just kind of learned to adapt unless something is out right unplayable or broken.
Cuningas de Häme
Member
So, is there any TVs without "smart" functions anymore?
I do not want that my TV has an OS that is easily hacked via OTA. And I know how shitty manufacturers are with proper updates on anything that isn't a phone (well, most of the phones lack proper updates too..).
I just want a TV that has basic functions working as fast as possible, minimal lag, at least a 100Hz native and not some program or such, enough ports for my stuff and a sensible menu. Is there a such thing, or do I just have to accept that I will have to get an insecure machine full of unnecessary junk?
I am a simple man. I want that my stuff do one thing, and does it well. TV is for giving a nice picture for my movies/games/sports, console is for games, audio stuff is for audio without clouds and whatnot...
I have been reading a lot about IoT and the problems it has, and frankly it is terrifying. Your damn dishwasher can be hijacked to become a part of a botnet. I study automation and lately we have been speaking about the future of technology. No one ever mentions these problems, everybody's gushing over the possibilities without any sense of responsibility. I am more in line with Stephen Hawkins, Elon Musk and Theo Kaczynski. Of course I am more concerned about the real life threats in immediate future, but if some of the brightest members of society are warning about going full speed ahead without thinking... Something's wrong.
But now I have to go get some more aluminium foil for my hat...
I do not want that my TV has an OS that is easily hacked via OTA. And I know how shitty manufacturers are with proper updates on anything that isn't a phone (well, most of the phones lack proper updates too..).
I just want a TV that has basic functions working as fast as possible, minimal lag, at least a 100Hz native and not some program or such, enough ports for my stuff and a sensible menu. Is there a such thing, or do I just have to accept that I will have to get an insecure machine full of unnecessary junk?
I am a simple man. I want that my stuff do one thing, and does it well. TV is for giving a nice picture for my movies/games/sports, console is for games, audio stuff is for audio without clouds and whatnot...
I have been reading a lot about IoT and the problems it has, and frankly it is terrifying. Your damn dishwasher can be hijacked to become a part of a botnet. I study automation and lately we have been speaking about the future of technology. No one ever mentions these problems, everybody's gushing over the possibilities without any sense of responsibility. I am more in line with Stephen Hawkins, Elon Musk and Theo Kaczynski. Of course I am more concerned about the real life threats in immediate future, but if some of the brightest members of society are warning about going full speed ahead without thinking... Something's wrong.
But now I have to go get some more aluminium foil for my hat...
If it wasn't $5,000, I'd have gotten the Z9D over the C6 I have honestly ($1,500 was too tempting for early adoption and it being OLED). $3,000 would be my ideal price range for the Z9D really. It's still the best HDR TV in the market right now personally. Kind of sucks the input lag is a bit high, but 40 ms is tolerable to me unless I was playing Overwatch or Street Fighter V somewhat competitively.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does "motion" mean in this context? OLED pixel response time should be the same, so basically just frame interpolation and maybe black frame insertion? I can't imagine anything else that would affect motion perception.
All current panel technologies have very poor motion resolution compared to plasma or CRT. Standard LCD and OLED only get 300 lines of motion resolution. Effectively you get SD resolution on moving images. The effect tends to be most pronounced in content that contains a lot of camera panning / scrolling.
There are a couple different technologies for improving motion resolution on these displays (although generally only up to 600 lines, so still far inferior to plasma & CRT). You can do motion interpolation. The downside is increased latency and potential artifacts. You can also do black frame insertion. The downside of that is that the image is dimmed by 50%.
It always surprises me that this isn't an issue that people complain about more in regards to gaming, due to the high amount of camera motion. But apparently sensitivity tends to vary wildly. It may be that some people's eyes don't perceive it as much.
This video shows you the test that is used to determine motion resolution, although it doesn't do a great job of actually demonstrating the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QfH79ehSJE
GreenMonkey
Member
Cuningas de Häme;234421763 said:
I'm not sure you'll find a high end set like that without any smart TV functions.
I work in Cybersecurity​ Incident Response.
OTA hacks are quite unusual, and only theoretical at this point (researchers and such). As far as I know.
Honestly, even non-smart TVs often have some Linux built in underneath that can get owned. I don't think th HDTV I saw owned at one point was a smart TV
Routers? Linux, can be owned.
Consoles? Linux underneath (or Windows).
Some kids toys and stuff even run Linux underneath.
You'd have to be in an O.S. free zone to be free of it.
Is there a specific thing about TVs being owned that scares you can your router or your phone?
Like I said before maybe a month or two before when someone said the A1E is only Sony tax, they are unbeatable right now for motion and image processing. Their biggest weaknesses in televisions recently were input lag and brightness and blacks, all of which they knocked out of the park this year.
I want to see the rtings A1E review though. And I wonder if they will have a Z9E successor. Imagine something with the same black levels, but nit brightness over 2000-2500 with 100% color accuracy. I was watching Planet Earth II the other day and I wished my KS8000 got even brighter for some parts.
I want to see the rtings A1E review though. And I wonder if they will have a Z9E successor. Imagine something with the same black levels, but nit brightness over 2000-2500 with 100% color accuracy. I was watching Planet Earth II the other day and I wished my KS8000 got even brighter for some parts.
Yappadappadu
Member
47 ms for 1080p and below is way too high in my book, so I'll have to disagree until Sony uses an even better processor that further lowers input lag.
But this is me having used two Sony LCD TVs with abt 20 ms before.
Its an amazing TV for now. You're always going to be waiting for the next big advance that is just down the block and then waiting even longer for content that supports it in large amounts. If people have the cash and the desire, go for it.
vpance
Member
There's always waiting and then there's good timing, but I'm just thinking in terms of price/perf. But yes if you have the money to burn then buy whenever you like.
Thank you, but I still don't really understand. Does that mean only 300 lines are updated each frame? Surely that can't be true?
And what does Sony do to improve this? Panel tech is the same, so... frame interpolation? But that will be turned off in Game mode, so I just don't get what it does differently to make games look better in motion.
Sony's OLED has a superior built-in processor and has more advanced algorithms when it comes to frame interpolation. This leads to less artifacts during use.
Also, they use a technique called "Black Frame Insertion (BFI)" which decreases the amount of time each frame is displayed by inserting a black frame in between each new frame. This lowers perceived motion blur without adding much if any latency but also lowers brightness. BFI is actually implemented in game mode on the Sony OLED.
I think this motion debate is getting over exaggerated.
Yes the LG OLED motion is not as butter smooth as the Sony for 23.976fps and some broadcast material, but in game mode?! It's absolutely fine at 60fps, no difference to my Pioneer Kuro.
I don't know what motion artificers are, I've never noticed anything looking out of place. I sit fairly close to a 65" B6, about 2.5m away.
When I watch my friends Sony LED, broadcast material like cable tv is the only thing that is a bit smoother than my OLED. But the B6 is doing 21ms input lag in game mode, don't think the Sony is close.
Yes the LG OLED motion is not as butter smooth as the Sony for 23.976fps and some broadcast material, but in game mode?! It's absolutely fine at 60fps, no difference to my Pioneer Kuro.
I don't know what motion artificers are, I've never noticed anything looking out of place. I sit fairly close to a 65" B6, about 2.5m away.
When I watch my friends Sony LED, broadcast material like cable tv is the only thing that is a bit smoother than my OLED. But the B6 is doing 21ms input lag in game mode, don't think the Sony is close.
Of course they're going to push it for two reasons. One being time to start clearing inventory for the new Z9E. Two, some people love brightness just like others do absolute blacks.
Did you see the Z9 in a dark mag room or on their floor? I watched a Z9 at a friends place and there was still bloom/halo on it. Slightly but still there. Also, the response time on oled panels. You have both the lag and response time to deal with on the Z9.
Despite the Z9 being the best LCD to date, there's just something about the absolute black that makes it for me.
That other review is good. Still waiting on Rtings. If the A1E does address motion and banding better than LG, it will probably be this years to have set.
Yappadappadu
Member
That's the B7. The B6 does 28 ms.
Terbinator
Member
Can you not use the B/C6 1080p120Hz mode for gaming like the '7' series?