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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Hmmm......I'm jumping from a Panasonic plasma to a LG C6 and using 4k HDR from netflix/Amazon streaming and Xbox one S blu rays.
I've watched films like Pacific rim and the Martian and mad max and yeh it looks beautiful. But I can't remember what it looked like before HDR! Lol
Planet Earth 2 doesn't blow me away either. The TV is definitely in HDR mode as it changes to HDR Vivid/Bright/Dark modes.
I wonder if there's a quick test I can do but the tv has to restart whenever I turn HDR on or off so I can't flick between the two.
I've watched films like Pacific rim and the Martian and mad max and yeh it looks beautiful. But I can't remember what it looked like before HDR! Lol
Planet Earth 2 doesn't blow me away either. The TV is definitely in HDR mode as it changes to HDR Vivid/Bright/Dark modes.
I wonder if there's a quick test I can do but the tv has to restart whenever I turn HDR on or off so I can't flick between the two.
RedAssedApe
Banned
a quick one would be to try watching youtube hdr videos with and without hdr on another device i guess. technically its not an apples to apples...but you can kind of get the feel for what it changes?
Pure BS may be hyperbole, and of course there is a distance when the difference can't be discerned, but for almost everyone here, its damn near the truth...especially in the situation that is currently being discussed which is someone thinking of buying a 65" 4k set....
I'm sorry, but the difference between 6ft, and even out to 10ft if his rooms size allowed it, is not going to diminish his enjoyment, or the upgrade from 1080p to 4k...6ft may be some theoretical sweet spot for someone with perfect vision, under perfect lighting conditions...but the guy is debating whether or not he should move his couch every time the content he watches switches resolution and we're dealing with the difference of a few feet here...THAT is where these charts become BS...
Yes, if you're sitting 20ft from a 55" TV, you should either sit closer, or get something bigger...but the difference on a 65" 4k set when you're talking 6ft out to maybe 10ft? Nah bro, no big deal...
For people with a B6:
I use Expert Dark Room for watching Netflix and Amazon Content.
Strangely though, every time I change the settings (e.g. True Motion... i know i know) it doesn't keep them the next time I start it up, it's judder city all over again.
I change the settings, back out of the menu and watch my stuff. Then turn it off some hours later. How can I make sure it saves the settings?
I use Expert Dark Room for watching Netflix and Amazon Content.
Strangely though, every time I change the settings (e.g. True Motion... i know i know) it doesn't keep them the next time I start it up, it's judder city all over again.
I change the settings, back out of the menu and watch my stuff. Then turn it off some hours later. How can I make sure it saves the settings?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Doesn't the XBO do HDMI-CEC?
Doesn't that imply that someone without a perfect vision need to sit even closer than 6ft to see all the benefits from a 4k television? :3
Yeah Ive got one, its pretty basic.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Yah I wear my glasses when I play games cuz I'm 8ft away from a 55incher and want to try and be able to see more details. The only other time I wear glasses is when night driving lol
This is from THX.com. One would think they would know what they are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I would like to be proven wrong that I shouldn't sit more than 6.5ft from the TV..
"The rules are a bit different for 4K or UHD sets. The images on these TVs are so detailed that you can sit very close without your eyes getting tired. Take a look at the chart below to find your ideal screen size. You're welcome to sit further away, of course, but you'll be missing out on some of the detail you've paid for."
check out the page and the chart..
http://www.thx.com/blog/black-friday-2016/
I'm sure you're sure.
I'm also sure that if you were to chose 20 movies, and then pick a 2 versions of each, one in 720 and another in 1080, and make someone play them randomly for you while write down which one you think is which, at 15 feet, on a 50" screen, with an eyesight worse than 20/20, you'll find out you get as much right than wrong
Edit: Regarding your second part, I wouldn't have advised you to get a bigger TV as you imply...I would have told you to do what I did 12y ago. Get a 720 TV because you couldn't tell the difference between 720 and 1080 anyway
Does THX know what their talking about? Absolutely, but THX is also in the business to make money...does a "THX certified" AV receiver automatically sound better than one that doesn't have the sticker on it? Nope...it just means someone decided to pay money to get a certification so they could charge you more...
My Onkyo Receiver has "THX recommended" settings built into it's calibration when you're setting it up...Guess what? I don't think it produces the best sound when you use those settings...but you would think THX knows that they are talking about right?
Again...like I've said...a few feet isn't going to make or break your experience...sit where you feel comfortable sitting, but absolutely DO NOT waste your time moving furniture around for different resolutions. You're over thinking this process ENTIRELY too much, I promise...
technically? Yes, which is where things get asinine...does anyone really want to sit 3ft from a 65" TV? Would that even be comfortable?...sitting in a dark room, 3 ft from a TV on HDR torch mode? Yikes...
Impossibly flawed comparison though...way too many variables...I'm sure you're sure.
I'm also sure that if you were to chose 20 movies, and then pick a 2 versions of each, one in 720 and another in 1080, and make someone play them randomly for you while write down which one you think is which, at 15 feet, on a 50" screen, with an eyesight worse than 20/20, you'll find out you get as much right than wrong
You would need 2 separate sets, with identical specs where the only difference is native resolution...which is impossible to find...
I don't disagree with your point that many people wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but the data would be very flawed either way
Hi all, need some opinions on upgrading from a 2016 LED to 2017 OLED.
So I currently have a Samsung KS8000 60' that I picked up on a boxing day sale in December last year. The TV is great for my type of usage (movies/ shows and lots of gaming on both ps4 pro and pc). The IQ and low input lag are massive plusses and overall I am very happy with the TV. There are a few things that gets on my nerves though, such as the slight judder when playing anything through HDMI (ps4 and even more noticeable on PC). I'm the type of person that constantly changes settings picture settings every time I power on the TV to get the best IQ for the the content I'm playing at the time. The judder has gotten a little annoying and 6 months later I still find myself jumping into the settings quiet frequently trying to get rid of it, especially when running my PC on the screen. When playing movies or games (even more noticeable) via PC, the judder is definitely present and it's always lingering in my mind as I came from a older LCD that didn't have it. The TV has amazing IQ, low input lag and I'm very happy with it otherwise.
A situation has come up where a close friend is looking for a 60 inch and I have started thinking about the idea of selling him the KS8000 and upgrading to the new LG OLED C7 65'. The price difference is quiet substantial, but I've heard some great things about these OLED sets, especially the 2017 models. Looking at reviews of the C7, they all seem to hit the mark (even with the low input lag) as well as no judder as seen on the KS8000. As I'm the type of person that loves to jump into the picture settings multiple times a day, notices differences in IQ with various settings and very sensitive to little things like input lag, motion blur etc., I'm trying to get a grasp if I should bite the bullet and spend a few more grand to upgrade to an higher end OLED set.
My question is, is there a noticeable "upgrade/ difference" going from my LED KS8000 to an LG C7 OLED?. Getting rid of the judder will be a great plus and the IQ seems to be "amazing" according to the various OLED reviews out there. I will be moving up from a 60 to 65, and paying around $2500-$3000 for the difference which isn't a small figure. Is the upgrade worth it for the price bring paid to jump from LED to OLED?
Thoughts?
So I currently have a Samsung KS8000 60' that I picked up on a boxing day sale in December last year. The TV is great for my type of usage (movies/ shows and lots of gaming on both ps4 pro and pc). The IQ and low input lag are massive plusses and overall I am very happy with the TV. There are a few things that gets on my nerves though, such as the slight judder when playing anything through HDMI (ps4 and even more noticeable on PC). I'm the type of person that constantly changes settings picture settings every time I power on the TV to get the best IQ for the the content I'm playing at the time. The judder has gotten a little annoying and 6 months later I still find myself jumping into the settings quiet frequently trying to get rid of it, especially when running my PC on the screen. When playing movies or games (even more noticeable) via PC, the judder is definitely present and it's always lingering in my mind as I came from a older LCD that didn't have it. The TV has amazing IQ, low input lag and I'm very happy with it otherwise.
A situation has come up where a close friend is looking for a 60 inch and I have started thinking about the idea of selling him the KS8000 and upgrading to the new LG OLED C7 65'. The price difference is quiet substantial, but I've heard some great things about these OLED sets, especially the 2017 models. Looking at reviews of the C7, they all seem to hit the mark (even with the low input lag) as well as no judder as seen on the KS8000. As I'm the type of person that loves to jump into the picture settings multiple times a day, notices differences in IQ with various settings and very sensitive to little things like input lag, motion blur etc., I'm trying to get a grasp if I should bite the bullet and spend a few more grand to upgrade to an higher end OLED set.
My question is, is there a noticeable "upgrade/ difference" going from my LED KS8000 to an LG C7 OLED?. Getting rid of the judder will be a great plus and the IQ seems to be "amazing" according to the various OLED reviews out there. I will be moving up from a 60 to 65, and paying around $2500-$3000 for the difference which isn't a small figure. Is the upgrade worth it for the price bring paid to jump from LED to OLED?
Thoughts?
If you want to upgrade to a 65" LG OLED wait until black Friday of 2018.
LG is opening (or has already opened) a new factory in Korea to make cheaper 65" inch panels.
Also next year models will (probably) have HDMI 2.1 support.
I have a 2014 55" OLED and been wanting to upgrade for some time now to a 65" 4K one, and will do it BF next year
DOT DASH DOT
Member
chromatic9
Member
I'd do my own tests with images from 720 to 2160 instead of referring to a chart.
Before you arrange your room just put the images up on your TV and keep moving closer and write down the distance the 720 image looks poor. Do this for 720,1080 and 2160 and you'll get an understanding of the best distance for you and when 2160 loses its effectiveness.
You could even render a small 4k clip in 3 resolutions on loop and also do a video game. Sit at various distances and keep moving out until the 4k segment looks too similar to the 1080p segment. Test with your own eyes.
Also take the video clip loop to a demo room and test whether you need 55" or 65". You might find out for your eyes at 8ft+ you need 65"
Before you arrange your room just put the images up on your TV and keep moving closer and write down the distance the 720 image looks poor. Do this for 720,1080 and 2160 and you'll get an understanding of the best distance for you and when 2160 loses its effectiveness.
You could even render a small 4k clip in 3 resolutions on loop and also do a video game. Sit at various distances and keep moving out until the 4k segment looks too similar to the 1080p segment. Test with your own eyes.
Also take the video clip loop to a demo room and test whether you need 55" or 65". You might find out for your eyes at 8ft+ you need 65"
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Wow, the OLED looks pretty terrible in scenes with very bright peak highlights, compared to the Sony. Much dimmer and less dynamic image. But on the other hand the OLED crushes the Sony in dark scenes, of course.
As people have been saying, you're overthinking this. Put your couch 6.5ft away and enjoy your TV. Don't move your couch around based on the content you are viewing. It doesn't make enough of a difference to be worthwhile and what difference it would make isn't completely beneficial.
I'd recommend a cheap Harmony instead.
Yeah, that's exactly what I've been doing today. Cheers
Thanks for your feedback, I was also thinking about the 2018 models with HDMI 2.1. The thing is, I have a good relationship with someone working at my old job in retail and they can bring the C7 down close to cost price, I'm not sure if I will be able to do this in 2018. On top of this, the KS8000 won't be worth as much it is is now in 2018.
I'm from Australia so we don't have black Friday sales. If anything it will be boxing day sale in December, but considering I can get the C7 now close to cost price, that's a decent plus.
I'm also running a fairly powerful pc, so having an option to run 120hz in 4K on HDMI 2.1 would be pretty massive. Has any manufacturers mentioned updating the 2017 TV'S with HDMI 2.1 via firmware?
Theonik
Member
Remember though, to get the most out of the OLED you need a dark room for those scenes while images like the starfield will be much better on the OLED overall.
I really want to see if Sony follows up the Z9D with, if anything. Could be a beast.
I have a UK/US KS7/8000. It's got some issues, but overall I'm happy with it. I've not seen an OLED TV (knowingly).
Bearing that in mind, it doesn't sound like you should upgrade. Yes, your TV has some annoying aspects, but you're happy with it.
You also sound like someone who will tinker with *any* TV they have and will probably find things that could be improved. As I've seen from various threads, OLEDs are excellent - but they are not *faultless*.
Plus, you're buying at a time when a new HDMI standard has been announced. This sounds like a big change and one that could be important for games - as a thread here says, the sync stuff is a 'god tier' upgrade.
If you save your money, you'll get a much better TV, that supports a standard that should be around for a few years, perhaps for less money that you'd be spending now.
If you were on a 1080p LCD, maybe it would be worth it. But for a KS8000?
EDIT - poster replied as I was writing.
I can't listen right now (I watched a bit), but is there a reason they only call it "2017 OLED TV"? What make / model is it?
RedlineRonin
Member
It's the panasonic but the gist is that it's really representative of all OLEDs since they're all close in performance.
It's like we're going to have this "should I wait for HDMI 2.1" conversation once per page...
Got it, thanks!
BradleyLove
Member
If you can get the C7 now for cost price, do it.
A couple of reasons why:
1) You might be dead before 2018 comes round
2) You might be able to sell the C7 for close to cost in 2018
This is the approach I've taken with buying the Sony A1.
The thing with the 2.1 conversation is that there are too many factors for anything close to a one-size-fits-all answer.
a). we don't even know the entirety of 2.1 or if it definitively will be in 2018 sets
b). how often do you buy TVs (every 3 years? every 5+? the recommendation would be different)
c). are you a heavy PC user (high end PC)?
d). what are you using your TV for?
e). will future consoles support 2.1? when are they coming?
The list goes ON and ON...
RedlineRonin
Member
More of us should heed this in everyday decision making.
Right. It goes back to the technology never slows down argument.
Ronin, does your C7 suffer from the dim game hdr mode? If it does, has it always or is it due to a fw update?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Pretty sure that's not possible, at least not to the full 2.1 spec. Certain things might be doable on today's hardware, but other things require more bandwidth and therefore new chipsets and such.
I realise it must be a bit tiring seeing it, but it *is* important. For some reason - without doing any research - I assumed that 2.0 was going to be around for four or five more years.
That was part of my reasoning when buying the TV in late 2016.
Of course if I'd looked into it, I'd have seen that 3-4 years was more likely the gap between them, so I was taking a big risk in that sense. If people are going to invest a lot of money in a TV, it makes sense to do it at the start of standard's cycle.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Except the start is when you'll see the most issues (both in hardware and firmware). So in that sense, it might be better to jump in toward the end of the cycle, and let the next standard mature a bit before embracing it.
RedlineRonin
Member
No idea.
I don't use game mode. I have everything funneling through my Anthem AVM 60 and the single HDMI input (#2, for ARC) set to "PC" mode to enable all the benefits of game mode, without actually using game mode.
To be clear, simply changing the icon to PC on any input, as I understand it, enables all the latency benefits from game mode, as well as 4:4:4 subsampling. It turns off some of the Tru Motion options, but I haven't found a need to really use those anyway.
This has worked very well for both my PC and PS4 Pro.
I'm not sure why more people aren't doing this to deal with the "dim game mode" situation? Unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding something.
I use ISF dark for all SDR stuff and HDR as well. I tweaked OLED panel and color down ~10 points each (reds, in particular, are eye searing, even on ISF dark)
You aren't wrong academically speaking, abstracted from real world constraints, but you can look at the last couple pages for my thoughts on 2.1.
At the end of the day, we may not see sets until CES (or later) that even have the functionality, and then it is likely at least 2-3 years before anything really takes advantage of VRR. And lossless via ARC is a huge unknown (there are no streaming services offering lossless today) so how you'd ever utilize that remains to be seen. And this is again setting aside that a streaming box will likely accomplish anything you'd want ARC for anyway.
We aren't talking like 1.4 to 2.0 where it enabled HDR/4K (big deal), we're talking about somewhat esoteric features that, even if enabled, may not necessarily have any industry support anyway.
Just my two cents.
Ended up settling on the TCL 55P605. I'm thrilled with it so far. It's replacing a 9-year-old 32 inch 720p TV, so it's obviously quite the change. Haven't played many games yet, but watched the UHD Blu-Ray of Fantastic Beasts and some Grand Tour on Amazon, and both looked utterly stunning. I used the settings from rtings. Love it!
(more pics of the new setup are here)
(more pics of the new setup are here)
RedlineRonin
Member
If it makes you feel better it looks shitty on a C7 too.
Not sure if that's HBO or if that's Amazon though.
Yeah OLEDs are pissed when fed a shitty signal.
RedlineRonin
Member
I have Martin Logan Vantages up front.
It is literally the exact same story for me on the audio side. Fed DD 5.1 they sound anemic and thin. Fed lossless/uncompressed audio, it sounds like what you're watching is in the room with you.
Underscores the importance of high quality source material and ensuring every link in your system is configured properly.
System setup has gotten so complex that you can be short changing yourself on both the video and audio side, and small adjustments yield effectively "free" quality improvements just by knowing what you're doing.
Research is definitely important!
Theonik
Member
The Panasonic and Sony OLEDs deal with it OK compared to the C7.
So you're never buying an OLED? Sadness.
TheBoss1
Member
Ftfy.
It's been looking fine though the HBO Go app.