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[Averon]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/11/us-usa-education-tennessee-idUSBRE83A00720120411

Tennessee law allows creationism theory in classrooms

(Reuters) - Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam on Tuesday refused to sign a bill that would permit discussion of creationism in classrooms alongside the traditional evolutionary-based explanation of the origins of life, but allowed it to become law anyway.

The legislation, dubbed the "Monkey Bill" by critics, had sailed through the conservative-leaning state's Republican-dominated legislature.

Haslam, a Republican, earlier had said he would sign the bill despite his misgivings about its impact on the state's science curriculum. After a petition drive against the proposed legislation, he chose to let it become law without his signature.

"I do not believe that this legislation changes the scientific standards that are taught in our schools or the curriculum," Haslam said on Tuesday. "I also don't believe that it accomplishes anything ..."

Haslam could have vetoed the bill. The legislature, however, could override the veto with a simple majority.

Groups including the American Civil Liberties Union and the state teachers union opposed the bill, which requires teachers to permit a discussion of alternative theories to evolution as well as other issues such as global warming.

Teachers are not allowed to raise the alternative theories but must explore them if mentioned.

Critics said the bill provides a way to bring creationism - the belief that life on Earth was created by God - into science classes and have drawn comparisons with the so-called "Monkey Trial" of 1925 in which a Tennessee teacher was accused of violating state law by teaching that life evolved over time.

"With all the emphasis now on science, math and technology, this seems like a real step backwards," Jerry Winters, director of government relations for the Tennessee Education Association, said in an interview with Reuters.

"Tennessee was the focus of this debate in the 1920s and we don't need to be turning the clock back now," Winters said.

"The Scopes Monkey Trial," held in the east Tennessee city of Dayton, drew national attention as defense attorney Clarence Darrow and prosecutor William Jennings Bryan debated teacher John Scopes' right to teach evolution in violation of state law.

Scopes was found guilty, but the verdict was overturned in the state Supreme Court.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Superintendent Chalmers: "God has no place between these walls!"

 

[Orayn]

Pardon my language, but this is a tremendous load of horseshit. Introducing utter nonsense nonsense to classrooms under the guise of "intellectual freedom" is a classic wedge strategy, and something needs to be done to keep this anti-science infection from spreading.

 

[Enduin]

Thank God.

 

[Salazar]

That's some cowardly shit.

 

[Count Dookkake]

What theory?

 

[The Technomancer]

What theory?

Its an idea a person had, so that makes it a theory, right? That's how science works, right? Don't be so closeminded!

 

[Korey]

Supreme Court needs to rule on this shit.

 

[Orayn]

What theory?

Good point. Creationism doesn't qualify as a theory, hypothesis, or even model. I think the classification "crock of shit" is more accurate.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I don't mind this, as long as it was a sentence long at the back of a science book.

"On the other hand maybe some sky wizard did it".

 

[daffy]

You guys are mad because Tennessee doesn't conform to your unique worldview.

 

[Derrick01]

I don't mind people talking about it as long as the teacher challenges the students how to make sense of it scientifically. Should be good amusement at the very least.

 

[Steelrain]

Welp. I know where to avoid in the future.

 

[Log4Girlz]

You guys are mad because Tennessee doesn't conform to your unique worldview.

The rational worldview.

 

[Count Dookkake]

You guys are mad because Tennessee doesn't conform to your unique worldview.

No, my worldview includes stupid people.

 

[Noise Pollution]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

We need a law that allows me to discuss evolution at Evanglical churches. TEACH THE CONTROVERSEY.

 

[Dude Abides]

So I guess they think this is legal after Kitzmiller because it doesn't require teaching religious bullshit, but rather only requires discussing if a student brings it up.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

Teaching something that requires pure faith to believe in? BELONGS IN SCIENCE CLASS.

 

[Orayn]

I don't mind people talking about it as long as the teacher challenges the students how to make sense of it scientifically. Should be good amusement at the very least.

And after we've wasted perfectly good class time letting Fred the Fundamentalist scream about how science is ungodly and the Earth is 6000 years old? These people generally don't think in rational terms.

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

Faith in God is not the problem, devoting time to non-science subjects in science classes is.

 

[QisTopTier]

And after we've wasted perfectly good class time letting Fred the Fundamentalist scream about how science is ungodly and the Earth is 6000 years old? These people generally don't think in rational terms.



Faith in God is not the problem, devoting time to non-science subjects in science classes is.

Dinosaurs were put there by the devil, they are the remains of demons!

Oh and if I was a teacher and someone asked if god put us on the earth. I would say okay sure if god was some alien race or something. *aliens.jpg*

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

We have church and religious world history for things like that, NOT science class.

 

[Ponn]

Wait, so they don't have to teach it, just discuss it if a student mentions creationism? So what's stopping the teacher from then just showing evolution over creationism? Sounds like a backfire.

 

[Yagharek]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

People can believe that God made the world in a week, 6000 years ago. They are still wrong and no amount of faith can change that. Thus you shouldn't be teaching children lies in a science class.

 

[QisTopTier]

Wait, so they don't have to teach it, just discuss it if a student mentions creationism? So what's stopping the teacher from then just showing evolution over creationism? Sounds like a backfire.

A teacher is going to get fired over this. I just know it

 

[KarmaCow]

Keep fucking that chicken.

 

[DarkKyo]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

 

[Chichikov]

Inherit the Wind 2: Monkey Harder!

 

[jediyoshi]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

This is the expert analysis I came to this thread for.

 

[Arment]

Shall they introduce law that you must teach the big bang theory or evolution in bible school? They belong there as much as this belongs in a science classroom.

 

[tearsofash]

Now if we'd only legalize medical marriage and gay marijuana I'd feel much better admitting I'm from TN.

Not that I believe in creationism, but at least it gives kids exposure to something besides the Christianity they are constantly exposed to outside the classroom (and in)

 

[Tawpgun]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

Missed the point completley.

 

[Ponn]

A teacher is going to get fired over this. I just know it

Ideally I'm picturing that mrs. Garrison episode of south park with Dawkins. In reverse of course.

 

[Orayn]

Realistically, this doesn't stand a chance. If it goes to a higher court, it will get ripped to shreds. The Supreme Court has made it abundantly clear that this stuff is not okay, and creationists and IDers have lost every single major battle of the last few years as a result.

 

[Chichikov]

Oh wow some people on gaf getting their panties in a wad because some people still have faith in god, what a surprise.

Yes, that's exactly why people are pissed.
You see scientists want to convert everyone into atheists, and the best way to achieve that is through high school biology classes.
As Sun Tzu said - he who controls AP Bio, controls the nation.

 

[QisTopTier]

Realistically, this doesn't stand a chance. If it goes to a higher court, it will get ripped to shreds. The Supreme Court has made it abundantly clear that this stuff is not okay, and creationists and IDers have lost every single major battle of the last few years as a result.

It straight up goes against 1st amendment of course it's going to get ripped apart

 

[Barbacoatl]

Watch the iq of the state drop over the next years. Not like it's high or anything but still.

 

[Kettch]

Teachers are not allowed to raise the alternative theories but must explore them if mentioned.

"Explore" as in "viciously explain why they have no place in science"? I'd be ok with that.

Only real issue here is if you have a creationist science teacher, but then you have bigger problems than this law.

 

[entremet]

I thought Evangelicals looked at the Genesis creation tale as a myth? Or I my confusing my sects of Christianity?

 

[Unhandled Exception]

Social darwinism on a large scale. Let them weed themselves out with stupidity.

 

[Fantastical]

Watch the iq of the state drop over the next years. Not like it's high or anything but still.

We're not all this stupid!

 

[Zzoram]

Now if we'd only legalize medical marriage and gay marijuana I'd feel much better admitting I'm from TN.

Not that I believe in creationism, but at least it gives kids exposure to something besides the Christianity they are constantly exposed to outside the classroom (and in)

Science class is not the place for it. Americans are bad enough at science as it is, diluting their science class time even further is only going to be horrible for the country.

Already 25% of American scientists were foreign born, and most Americans avoid science class as soon as the get the choice to and choose non-science majors in University. It's going to have to be >50% foreign scientists in America for the country to still innovate and lead the world if the creationist and anti-science movements take firm hold of the country.

 

[Orayn]

I thought Evangelicals looked at the Genesis creation tale as a myth? Or I my confusing my sects of Christianity?

It varies. "Evangelical" is a pretty broad group of protestant denominations, ranging from quite liberal and reasonable to absolutely bugnuts insane.

 

[Zzoram]

Realistically, this doesn't stand a chance. If it goes to a higher court, it will get ripped to shreds. The Supreme Court has made it abundantly clear that this stuff is not okay, and creationists and IDers have lost every single major battle of the last few years as a result.

For this to get struck down, doesn't someone have to raise the issue by breaking this law then taking the case to the Supreme Court? It's going to cost a fortune to do, who's paying for it?

 

[Yagharek]

We're not all this stupid!

You can spell and use punctuation well, so that probably sees you a few standard deviations above the state average.

 

[Goldrush]

(Reuters) - Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam on Tuesday refused to sign a bill that would permit discussion of creationism in classrooms alongside the traditional evolutionary-based explanation of the origins of life, but allowed it to become law anyway.

The legislation, dubbed the "Monkey Bill" by critics, had sailed through the conservative-leaning state's Republican-dominated legislature.

Haslam, a Republican, earlier had said he would sign the bill despite his misgivings about its impact on the state's science curriculum. After a petition drive against the proposed legislation, he chose to let it become law without his signature.

"I do not believe that this legislation changes the scientific standards that are taught in our schools or the curriculum," Haslam said on Tuesday. "I also don't believe that it accomplishes anything ..."

Haslam could have vetoed the bill. The legislature, however, could override the veto with a simple majority.

Groups including the American Civil Liberties Union and the state teachers union opposed the bill, which requires teachers to permit a discussion of alternative theories to evolution as well as other issues such as global warming.

Teachers are not allowed to raise the alternative theories but must explore them if mentioned.

Critics said the bill provides a way to bring creationism - the belief that life on Earth was created by God - into science classes and have drawn comparisons with the so-called "Monkey Trial" of 1925 in which a Tennessee teacher was accused of violating state law by teaching that life evolved over time.

"With all the emphasis now on science, math and technology, this seems like a real step backwards," Jerry Winters, director of government relations for the Tennessee Education Association, said in an interview with Reuters.

"Tennessee was the focus of this debate in the 1920s and we don't need to be turning the clock back now," Winters said.

"The Scopes Monkey Trial," held in the east Tennessee city of Dayton, drew national attention as defense attorney Clarence Darrow and prosecutor William Jennings Bryan debated teacher John Scopes' right to teach evolution in violation of state law.

Scopes was found guilty, but the verdict was overturned in the state Supreme Court.

I don't get it. Is a veto pretty much meaningless in the state? I'm assuming it requires a majority to reach his desk in the first place.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

This entire situation seems blown out of proportion to me. I remember in 8th grade we had a question box where you could write a question on a piece of paper and place it in a box for the teacher to read to the class and answer it. One of these pieces of paper asked where the reproductive instinct originated from and one girl answered out-loud "Jesus, duh".

This is an opportunity for young kids to learn and discuss about the relationship between scientific evidence and religion, what can be supported and what cant. Looking at the infamous bar chart of how many Americans accept evolution as fact, I would have thought more gaffers would be encouraged to hear the two (science and God) debated in a classroom so kids leave there more educated.

 

[Orayn]

For this to get struck down, doesn't someone have to raise the issue by breaking this law then taking the case to the Supreme Court? It's going to cost a fortune to do, who's paying for it?

I think we need Kickstarter.

This entire situation seems blown out of proportion to me. I remember in 8th grade we had a question box where you could write a question on a piece of paper and place it in a box for the teacher to read to the class and answer it. One of these pieces of paper asked where the reproductive instinct originated from and one girl answered out-loud "Jesus, duh".

This is an opportunity for young kids to learn and discuss about the relationship between scientific evidence and religion, what can be supported and what cant. Looking at the infamous bar chart of how many Americans accept evolution as fact, I would have thought more gaffers would be encouraged to hear the two (science and God) debated in a classroom so kids leave there more educated about.

This could be covered in two or three sentences on the first day of class. It doesn't need to be a major topic because there's really not that much to discuss.

 

[Dude Abides]

For this to get struck down, doesn't someone have to raise the issue by breaking this law then taking the case to the Supreme Court? It's going to cost a fortune to do, who's paying for it?

The ACLU will do it. The questions is whether a mere requirement to discuss something if a student brings it up constitutes sufficient "endorsement" of religion to violate the Establishment Clause. Despite Orayn's confidence, I think this SC is likely to hold that it doesn't.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

"explore them if mentioned"?

So if a teacher says it's absolute nonsense that won't be on the test that will be okay?