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Terrorist attack: Driver runs over Muslim pedestrians leaving Mosque in London

K

knkng

Member
Audioboxer said:
Sane people in the UK do not have an issue accepting this as terrorism. Nor does our police forces, government or PM (regardless of what anyone has to say about May). The only reason it was "slow" to report was because the police as they always do have to take control of the area, investigate and find answers. As someone was taken alive which doesn't happen often there was probably preliminary questioning for motive as well.
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I'm aware of that. I was in this thread when it was still going on telling people to just stick with the police report and not put too much stock into the "three suspects" claim. I trust in the police in these situations over reactionary claims or the desire to rush information.

And the person I responded to claimed that the public viewed this differently because POC are treated differently than white people. I agree with you, from what I've seen people are solidly confirming this as terrorism, but based on the premise of the other post, I was just pointing out that it was contextually disingenuous.
 
M

michaelius

Banned
Dr.Acula said:
I find terrorism "understandable" in a warzone with no government or effective law-enforcement, where food and fuel rationing means people can't live or work, but it's still not justified when it's bombs or lorry attacks that kill indiscriminately.
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Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
michaelius said:
Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
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You know we bombed the hell out of Dresden and Berlin right? And nuked two Japanese cities? Terrorism in its state had originally been a tool for government to fight internal rebellions without giving them the protections of the first Geneva conventions. (which was very important to the empires of the time that had big separatist movements)
 
R

Rektash

Member
michaelius said:
Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
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Uhhhh, I got some baaaaaaad news for you.
 
B

Beefy

Member
knkng said:
I don't disagree with your statement in general, but it's pretty disingenuous to simply frame this as a "white vs POC" issue while ignoring the entire ISIS situation. The recent terror attacks in both London and around the world have been perpetrated by (or at least claimed by) an international terrorist organization, and have been occurring on a weekly basis.

Contextually, it's quite a bit different, and obviously it will be easier for people to accept something as terrorism when perpetrated by a terrorist organization.
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Terrorism is terrorism in my book, be it by a individual or by a group. My point is POC are still treated differently then white people in attacks such as this. It doesn't matter if it is only some that treat POC differently, the fact is, we are treated differently.
 
K

knkng

Member
Beefy said:
Terrorism is terrorism in my book, be it by a individual or by a group. My point is POC are still treated differently then white people in attacks such as this. It doesn't matter if it is only some that treat POC differently, the fact is, we are treated differently.
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Fair enough, can't really disagree with that. Especially if we are talking about how the perpetrators are reported on or treated (ie. Muslims will be blamed for an ISIS attack, etc.)
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
knkng said:
I'm aware of that. I was in this thread when it was still going on telling people to just stick with the police report and not put too much stock into the "three suspects" claim. I trust in the police in these situations over reactionary claims or the desire to rush information.
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That always happens and yes, it's one of the main reasons police hammer home listen to us for updates, not trawl social media and report everything as if it's 100% fact. You cannot stop human nature wanting to search for updates and post whatever content they can as things break. However, people need to remind themselves always to be prepared for lots of mixed information/reporting during a highly stressful and panic-filled situation as an attack.

At the worse end of the scale, you have internet detectives. Whether it be accusing people incorrectly, downloading photos and claiming they're fake, or just pretending as if they are journalists/police officers themselves. Thankfully not many people are this careless. It can be incredibly disrespectful to any victims as well.
 
C

Condom

Member
michaelius said:
Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
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What? German civilians most certainly got attacked in WWII.
 
B

Bornstellar

Member
michaelius said:
Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
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This is 100% wrong. The Allies bombed civilians and the Russians in particular committed atrocities against the German population.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
michaelius said:
Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
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:lol Is this Sean Spicer's account?

The Allies absolutely engaged in fire bombing that killed a lot of innocent civilians in cities
 
T

the_id

Member
As a Muslim, we need to do more after this attack. To fight Islamophobia, it is important that we muslims show our way of life is compatible to the Western way of life and we can play a big role in helping their overall communities.

Most muslims in Western countries are immigrants either economic or refugee immigrants and they tend to bring "baggage" or "cultures" from their home countries which they struggle to leave behind and affects their ability to integrate.

In New Zealand at least, their is a push by the Mosques here that we are part of the community we live in and not isolated.
 
M

MagnaderAlpha

Member
I'm glad the news over here in the US that I've saw so far report on this, did so by clearly stating it was a "terrorist act". Things like this NEED to be refereed as "acts of terror", and people NEED to have it drilled into their heads. No more of this coddling "white lunatics" and enforcing the perception that a terrorist can ONLY be a POC.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
michaelius said:
Terrorism as targeting civilians for political reasons is always way of cowards and morally deprawed. Just look at WWII - despite German atrocities conquered nations didn't resort to such attacks against German civilians and instead attacked German military or police which is fair guerilla war tactics.
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History: D-
 
J

jonno394

Member
iapetus said:
That shouldn't surprise anyone, though, should it?
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It really shouldn't. A Catholic priest or a Jewish Rabbi wouldn't want a mob to attack someone either.

Just like how not all Catholic priests are child abusers, not all Imams are radical and looking to bring down the West! A few bad eggs doesn't mean they all are.
 
C

cameron

Member
Statement by the U.S. Department of State, from an hour ago.

The United States strongly condemns last night’s attack that appears to have targeted Muslim worshippers in London.

— Department of State‏ (@StateDept) June 19, 2017​

Press Statement
Heather Nauert
Department Spokesperson
Washington, DC
June 19, 2017

The United States strongly condemns last night’s attack that appears to have targeted Muslim worshippers in London. We extend our sympathies to the families and community of the victims and our hopes for the quick recovery of those wounded.

We commend the work of the first responders, and the courage of bystanders who apprehended the attacker and held him until authorities arrived. The United States stands ready to provide any assistance that UK officials would find helpful in this difficult time.

The United States stands in solidarity with the United Kingdom in the face of this terrorist attack and emphasizes our shared resolve to counter the plague of terrorism.
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https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2017/06/272021.htm
 
Baki

Baki

Member
Beefy said:
Terrorism is terrorism in my book, be it by a individual or by a group. My point is POC are still treated differently then white people in attacks such as this. It doesn't matter if it is only some that treat POC differently, the fact is, we are treated differently.
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Yup.

Arguing otherwise only highlights how much of a white privilege bubble some people live in.
 
R

ReplacementPelican

Member
Local hero said:
Another neighbour said: ‘He had lived on the estate for a few years. He’s always been a complete c*** but this is really surprising.’
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I want people to remember this quote.

It's made me feel somewhat patriotic. It's the same as 'you ain't no Muslim bruv' and 'stop killing people you twats.' These things encapsulate why the British public, irrational and stupid as we can be, will never be terrorised.

These people, all of them, regardless of motive are just cunts to us.

Let's hope this changes the way people view Islamophobia and hopefully some of the papers will be feeling somewhat responsible for this, even if they don't communicate that feeling.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
pswii60 said:
What's happened here is likely that same category of terrorism. But I find it interesting that you think Britain First should be apologising. If the guy is a Christian for example, shouldn't the expectation br that all Christians should be apologising and condemning the attack? After all, that's been the unnecessary expectation on Muslims following the other recent attacks.
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I don't actually think they should / want them to, I want the double standard to be acknowledged by racists that it's just as illogical as asking "Muslims" to apologise for extremists claiming to represent them.
 
R

ReplacementPelican

Member
Its interesting the comments about him 'not being racist' because we sort of need to re-focus our perceptions of things like this.

The main issue is that the connotation with racist is sort of 'irredeemable piece of shit' which, whilst not strictly untrue, leads to a lot of white people not really thinking of themselves or others as 'racist' because 'he's still a nice guy.' This is no doubt also because - depending on your age - your parents, grandparents, etc.. can hold 'iffy' views at best. This doesn't allow us to properly quantify warning signs of racial/religious hatred with 'racism' because of the view we, as a society, have about 'racists.'

It doesn't need to change, I guess but it kind of becomes hard for
white
people to wrap their heads around because they hold contradictory notions of 'racism is evil' with 'well, yeah, he has some question views but...' which is something I know I've seen quite often. Which could let people like this slip through the cracks a bit.

I don't know. Way too hot today for this kind of thinking. Its just a bit dismaying.

Maybe it was just economic anxiety.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
M_Night said:
Abbot facing heat.

https://scontent-nrt1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=c483e70f163abf5fa7583df119302983&oe=59E48179
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I mentioned this for the NYTimes, but timestamps! It's worth checking what the status of the police reporting was when Abbot tweeted. It could be said 1,000,000 times but some people either still don't get it, or do get it but just want to continue peddling their narrative. I'll say it again anyway, it routinely starts as an "incident" and only gets upgraded to "suspected terror attack" / "terror attack" when the police say so. It doesn't matter if there is a livestream video on Twitter/FB and then all the public racing to state what it is 15 minutes after happening. Our police take their time to lock down the area, find out exactly what has happened and then do some preliminary investigation work before reporting in with us. You cannot make mistakes in situations like these either by incorrect reporting, or incomplete reporting. Look at Twitter during any attack, there's nearly always more attackers than there really is, guns going off that didn't go off, people stabbed who weren't stabbed and other tweets after tweets of misinformation/uncertainty/panic. Even this time around Tweets were saying 30~45 minutes for the police to show up

Calls were made to the emergency services at about 00:20 BST. A police van arrived within one minute and a cordon was raised around the area within 10 minutes.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40323769

Even if things were classed differently when Abbot tweeted, does it really matter? She's been in the public eye long enough for everyone to know she's a decent person so I really doubt she's sitting calculating what to say on Twitter for "social media brownie points". I get everyone is F5ing all their favourite Twitter accounts non-stop during an attack looking to either retweet or screencap and call out... What's more important is the work the police end up doing, how they respond, saving and preventing further lives being at risk and then what the on-going after attack operation/investigation is going to be.

So no, tldr; Abbot doesn't deserve to be "facing heat" here from assholes on social media.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Probably late but

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-40347813
A man has been arrested on suspicion of posting an offensive Facebook post about the London Finsbury Park attack.

Police said a 37-year-old, believed to be the son of an owner of the Rhondda Cynon Taff company whose van was used in Monday's attack, is in custody.

Richard Evans allegedly posted: "It's a shame they don't hire out steam rollers or tanks could have done a tidy job then."

His father, Lee Evans, said he condemned the remarks.

Lee Evans said: "I want to condemn in the strongest possible terms these ill-considered Twitter comments, which in no way reflect my own view or indeed those of anyone else in the family.

"The attack in Finsbury Park was shocking and cowardly. Together with all the staff at Pontyclun Van Hire, I am doing everything I can to assist the Metropolitan Police in their inquiries."
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