Support NeoGAF

[ULTROS!]

Sucks it wasn't accepted.

Guess I'll wait for the hypothetical PS3 version then.

 

[Lime]

Don't know if you know, but all platform holders do that. MS rejected harmless games like Machinarium and Beat Hazard to name a few.

Yes? When did I mention Microsoft in my post? What they do with their content is irrelevant in the current topic of Nintendo restricting content based on the (ethical) values in that content. In Nintendo's case is that their restriction is really narrow and filters out even at the slightest hint of anything offending or controversial. To specify, I am referring to cases where platform holders restrict content based on the inherent values in them. What Microsoft and Sony do might be as counter-intuitive as what Nintendo are doing, but that does not mean that what they are doing justifies likewise behaviour.

 

[SparkTR]

Have any of you considered that Nintendo might have rejected the game because it was too similar to Zelda? Not the gameplay but the look, maybe they don't want people to associate the Zelda series with this game.

The game looks and plays nothing like Zelda, unless a top down perspective means a Zelda clone.

 

[wutwutwut]

The game would be rejected on XBL and PSN as well. Sad to see people using this news a vessell to let out their Nintendo hate as if it would be allowed on the others.

You're right, all three deserve criticism.

 

[Night_Trekker]

The game looks and plays nothing like Zelda, unless a top down perspective means a Zelda clone.

Nonsense. It is very clearly HEAVILY "inspired" by Zelda 1, mainly the dungeons. The HUD looks similar, the perspective in the rooms looks similar, bombing walls to find secret rooms, using a ladder to cross pits, finding a compass that looks similar, and on and on. Even certain enemy types look, move, and attack similarly to their Zelda counterparts.

BoI would not exist without Zelda 1.

 

[Eusis]

Are these different branches that approve digital and retail stuff?

That's what I'm thinking, Nintendo's probably being SOMEWHAT like their older selves when it comes to digital distribution, being a new frontier where they don't want to scare people off prematurely (especially since they seriously need to up their game there). It's also possible it goes a HAIR over the limit, a perfect storm that kills its chances where if just one thing was different (more realistic looking, less bloody/gruesome, or no religious angle) it'd have been OK.

Nonsense. It is very clearly HEAVILY "inspired" by Zelda 1, mainly the dungeons. The HUD looks similar, the perspective in the rooms looks similar, bombing walls to find secret rooms, and on and on.

It's similar like Zelda 2 is similar to Mario. Some basic mechanics and gameplay, mixed with a lot of completely different stuff that makes it its own unique beast. Actually, in some ways it's more distanced than that, it's more like if Smash TV were given a somewhat Zelda-like aesthetic and few design ideas recycled.

 

[Oddduck]

You make it sound like there are companies that do want to deal with angry religious groups.

I don't think it has anything to do with dealing with angry religious groups and everything to do with maintaining Nintendo's "wholesome" image. The same people who decided we needed friend codes to "protect the children" don't want parents to accidentally subject their children to The Binding of Isaac.

Is it ultimately the parents' responsibility to make sure they know what their kids are doing(playing)? Sure it is, but when you're marketing your product in a nanny state like the US you can safely assume that there are plenty who will blame your company for their poor parenting skills.

This is just Nintendo not willing to risk their image for what little money they would stand to make on this game. Sounds like a good business decision to me.

I guarantee if the same game was shown to Nintendo with the blood, dead babies, vaginas, it would have been accepted as long as the religious content was taken out.

Perhaps you never played Madworld, Scarface, The Godfather, House of the Dead Overkill, No More Heroes, and countless other M rated games on Wii.

 

[Talwind]

This is why I dislike Nintendo and their brand, because of their policy on the values of the content available on their platform being judged and controlled by them. It's in my opinion quite counter-intuitive that a platform holder actually narrows the potential expressions of that platform's content, because Nintendo holds the opinion that no one should ever be offended by the controversial content: No swear words, no nudity, no religious statements/criticism, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUSSFzRZGY

These sound like swear words on a Nintendo console to me

 

[ffdgh]

Being honest, cant say I'm surprised....

 

[gogogow]

Yes? When did I mention Microsoft in my post? What they do with their content is irrelevant in the current topic of Nintendo restricting content based on the (ethical) values in that content. In Nintendo's case is that their restriction is really narrow and filters out even at the slightest hint of anything offending or controversial. To specify, I am referring to cases where platform holders restrict content based on the inherent values in them. What Microsoft and Sony do might be as counter-intuitive as what Nintendo are doing, but that does not mean that what they are doing justifies likewise behaviour.

Guess you're right, since you dislike Nintendo, you wouldn't mention MS and/or Sony in the same sentence, even if they all have similar policies.

 

[Mzo]

Vita twin sticks.

Make it happen.

 

[Boney]

not really so no big deal

we finally agree on something lele

 

[Woo-Fu]

I guarantee if the same game was shown to Nintendo with the blood, dead babies, vaginas, it would have been accepted as long as the religious content was taken out.

Perhaps you never played Madworld, Scarface, The Godfather, House of the Dead Overkill, No More Heroes, and countless other M rated games on Wii.

Blood and dead babies sure, vaginas? I seriously doubt it. Violence is OK, it is basically a recommended vitamin for American youth. Sex, on the other hand, is still an issue.

No, I didn't play any of those games on my Wii Sports Console. If I wanted an endless stream of M-rated content---and I have to say I haven't noticed an M-rating conferring any gameplay advances whatsoever---I wouldn't buy a Nintendo product for it.

 

[Eusis]

And to take the other side...

The game looks and plays nothing like Zelda, unless a top down perspective means a Zelda clone.

That's irrelevant; WE'D know, and people who have interest and aren't as easily offended will find out. For knee jerk parents, some who've grown up playing Zelda I suspect, they'll think the two are related when looking on Nintendo's eShop and the wrong impression will be left. That could be why it's a factor in rejecting, even if it's an entirely different type of game.

 

[gogogow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUSSFzRZGY

These sound like swear words on a Nintendo console to me

and NO nudity:

uncensored version of BMX XXX, while being censored on the PS2.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

You have to admit, it would look weird going to the eshop and you see The Binding of Isaac in between Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, and Mutant Muddy

I don't think this is a problem and already happened in a Nintendo system before with Conker's Bad Fur Day being VERY controversial for it's content and was well accepted by N64's userbase even when was, pretty much, a dead system.

 

[Criminal Upper]

Vita twin sticks.

Make it happen.

Always nice to see people not bothering to read any post of the thread, save for the headline.

 

[Mpl90]

Blood and dead babies sure, vaginas? I seriously doubt it. Violence is OK, it is basically a recommended vitamin for American youth. Sex, on the other hand, is still an issue.

No, I didn't play any of those games on my Wii Sports Console. If I wanted an endless stream of M-rated content---and I have to say I haven't noticed an M-rating conferring any gameplay advances whatsoever---I wouldn't buy a Nintendo product.

And I repeat: The House of the Dead: Overkill XD

 

[Erethian]

I guarantee if the same game was shown to Nintendo with the blood, dead babies, vaginas, it would have been accepted as long as the religious content was taken out.

Perhaps you never played Madworld, Scarface, The Godfather, House of the Dead Overkill, No More Heroes, and countless other M rated games on Wii.

Edmund confirmed on twitter that Nintendo was fine with the gore and everything, the only issue was the religious stuff.

 

[Eusis]

I don't think this is a problem and already happened in a Nintendo system before with Conker's Bad Fur Day being VERY controversial for it's content and was well accepted by N64's userbase even when was, pretty much, a dead system.

They also tried to shove it into the corner and pretend it didn't exist. That won't work as easily for Binding of Isaac unless they only let you find it through search or something insane like that, and even then it just takes one asshole reporter to make a fuss over nothing.

 

[Night_Trekker]

It's similar like Zelda 2 is similar to Mario. Some basic mechanics and gameplay, mixed with a lot of completely different stuff that makes it its own unique beast. Actually, in some ways it's more distanced than that, it's more like if Smash TV were given a somewhat Zelda-like aesthetic and few design ideas recycled.

I didn't say, "The Binding of Isaac is a Zelda 1 ripoff." Calm down.

Almost everything in Binding of Isaac screams "like Zelda 1, but twisted." It's a game filled with memes and references that intentionally recalls classic Zelda design, visually and mechanically. That's not all it is, and I'd certainly never called it a "Zelda clone," but you'd have to be pretty thick to miss all of the parallels.

BoI is a game that would not exist in its current form without Zelda 1 as an inspiration. I'm not sure how anyone could believe or argue otherwise.

 

[Oddduck]

I seriously doubt it. Violence is OK, it is basically a recommended vitamin for American youth. Sex, on the other hand, is still an issue.

GameCube version of BMXXX had real actual video of strippers showing their bare tits. Sony censored the PS2 version of all nudity.

The game was shit, but it proves my point pretty well as far as where Nintendo stands on sexual content.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Wasn't there a thread made for this last night?

 

[MatthewB92]

I didn't say, "The Binding of Isaac is a Zelda 1 ripoff." Calm down.

Almost everything in Binding of Isaac screams "like Zelda 1, but twisted." It's a game filled with memes and references that intentionally recalls classic Zelda design, visually and mechanically. That's not all it is, but you'd have to be pretty thick to miss all of the parallels.

It's a game where when you play it you will think "Hey this reminds me of Zelda 1!" but when you buy it you wouldn't be thinking that.

 

[Woo-Fu]

And I repeat: The House of the Dead: Overkill XD

You can find exceptions to just about anything. All you're proving is that there are exceptions. I can't find any mention of vaginas in the wiki article, though.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

They also tried to shove it into the corner and pretend it didn't exist. That won't work as easily for Binding of Isaac unless they only let you find it through search or something insane like that, and even then it just takes one asshole reporter to make a fuss over nothing.

Well, Conker's content is VERY heavy and insulting even for today standards and for GTA-like games. What's bothering me is people trying to say Nintendo never done this before (allowing a controversy content game for it's system) and will damage it's reputation when it'll not happen as they say.

 

[rpg_poser]

All this kerfuffle makes me want to try the Binding of Isaac. I applaud Edmund for pushing the envelope. Outcome is not suprising, though.

 

[Woo-Fu]

GameCube version of BMXXX had real actual video of strippers showing their bare tits. Sony censored the PS2 version of all nudity.

The game was shit, but it proves my point pretty well as far as where Nintendo stands on sexual content.

Not really, tits and vagina are two different things. On top of that Gamecube was before Nintendo had decided to forego the console arms race.

On top of that, every example you've come up with is from a larger developer, with a wider audience, and presumably much larger profit potential for Nintendo, thus justifying the risks.

...again, it is just business. I don't expect games like this to find a place with Nintendo any more than I expect Fischer Price to come out with a line of sex toys.

 

[Night_Trekker]

It's a game where when you play it you will think "Hey this reminds me of Zelda 1!" but when you buy it you wouldn't be thinking that.

Unless you saw screenshots which visually suggest Zelda 1. In which case Nintendo very well may not have wanted the association to be made, given BoI's content.

 

[nephilimdj]

Surprised they just didnt make a toned down spinoff for the 3ds.

 

[VariantX]

If Nintendo leans that far to protecting children, then why are there M rated demos to download on the eshop?

Why was it that most of the games I saw for Wii U's lineup involved shooting, stabbing, or physically hurting someone?

Nintendo is fine with adult material in games like violence, swearing, sex, drug use. Go play Scarface on Wii to see what I'm talking about.

But censoring material about religion, racism, or homosexuality is not about protecting kids. It's about protecting Nintendo's image. Nintendo is meant to be played by everyone, and if they release games that attack or mock groups of people, then it contradicts that message.

I agree with this. Potentially pissing off religious groups would cost them far in brand damage than any amount of money they would have made with game. They'd be spending a great deal of time and money just trying to counter negative PR.

 

[TunaLover]

Shooting people in a game is fine, mocking fairy stories from people's believes is bad.

 

[Oddduck]

On top of that Gamecube was before Nintendo had decided to forego the console arms race.

This has nothing to do with anything. You're trying to connect the dots between things that don't need to be connected. We're talking about company policies, not console arms races.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Shooting people in a game is fine, mocking fairy stories from people's believes is bad.

What says family fun more than dismembering opposed to Canasta??!

 

[Row]

Throws a wrench in the whole "it's 3rd parties faults!" argument when it comes to 3rd party titles on Nintendo systems typically being incredibly lacking. Seems like Nintendo systems are generally beneficial for Nintendo only. Doubt it will be any different with Wii 2.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Thought Nintendo was past this? I still remember them blocking blood from MK on SNES. Though blood code on Genesis worked ABACABB...yes I still remember that lol

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Shooting people in a game is fine, mocking fairy stories from people's believes is bad.

Allowing a child-friendly, cute character in a game filled with alcohol references, intense violence, trash-talking and sex scenes (Conker's Bad Fur Day) is as bad as Binding of Isaac's content. Guess what? Didn't managed to ruin Nintendo's reputation, at all.

 

[Neuromancer]

Going to be honest, not crazy about Team Meat and not going to miss this game. Sucks for people who were looking forward to it, though.

 

[Oppo]

Huh.

It does sort of make me wonder if Nintendo would have had a problem with, say, El Shaddai.
If the issue really was religious content.

 

[Baconbitz]

I guarantee if the same game was shown to Nintendo with the blood, dead babies, vaginas, it would have been accepted as long as the religious content was taken out.

Perhaps you never played Madworld, Scarface, The Godfather, House of the Dead Overkill, No More Heroes, and countless other M rated games on Wii.

Manhunt anyone?

 

[Night_Trekker]

Throws a wrench in the whole "it's 3rd parties faults!" argument when it comes to 3rd party titles on Nintendo systems typically being incredibly lacking. Seems like Nintendo systems are generally beneficial for Nintendo only. Doubt it will be any different with Wii 2.

Except for their handhelds, where 3rd parties tend to thrive. You knew that, right?

 

[Jocchan]

Couldn't they release it on the Android store or on XBL indy with no rating?

The XBLIG content guidelines are actually stricter than the retail/XBLA ones.

Isaac goes against the content guidelines of XBLIG (nudity, excretory functions, the religious content could be seen as discriminatory). It wouldn't pass peer review.

You can't show poop in XBLIG games, but you can in DNF/Conker/etc.
You can't show breasts in XBLIG games, but you can in Dante's Inferno.
You can't show Nazi imagery in any context in XBLIG games, but you can in WW2-themed shooters.

 

[iKeepPlaying]

The XBLIG content guidelines are actually stricter than the retail/XBLA ones.


You can't show poop in XBLIG games, but you can in DNF/Conker/etc.
You can't show breasts in XBLIG games, but you can in Dante's Inferno.
You can't show Nazi imagery in any context in XBLIG games, but you can in WW2-themed shooters.

So... 3DS Store out. XBLIG out. What's left? PSN? Yeah right...

 

[zashga]

Huh.

It does sort of make me wonder if Nintendo would have had a problem with, say, El Shaddai.
If the issue really was religious content.

I doubt it. There have been, what, three SMT games on DS? The Binding of Isaac is just an exceptionally revolting game. People saying that it should be released on PSN or iOS definitely shouldn't get their hopes up. Nintendo is considerably more permissive of objectionable content than either Sony or Apple.

 

[Jocchan]

Huh.

It does sort of make me wonder if Nintendo would have had a problem with, say, El Shaddai.
If the issue really was religious content.

El Shaddai treats the religious content quite differently, tbh. They were pimping Darksiders 2 at last E3 and that game, too, is heavy on Christian imagery and icons. They also published Xenoblade which I hear (haven't played the game myself, so please feel free to correct me) delves quite deeply into religious themes. I honestly doubt the problem is just the simple presence of religious content, but more the way such content is treated in the context of the game.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Shooting people in a game is fine, mocking fairy stories from people's believes is bad.

1) We are an inherently violent species that enjoys violence in our entertainment.

2) Pretend violence is not real violence. Because it's pretend.

3) Video game violence is pretend violence, and nobody sane believes that when something happens in a game, that implies an endorsement of any real life reenactment of that action.

4) Insulting groups of people is not looked kindly upon in our oh-so politically correct society. (Well, certain groups of people are fair game, but we'll leave that for an OT thread I won't actually participate in because, you know, OT bullshit.)

5) You know all of this and you're just being a tit.

 

[massoluk]

Allowing a child-friendly, cute character in a game filled with alcohol references, intense violence, trash-talking and sex scenes (Conker's Bad Fur Day) is as bad as Binding of Isaac's content. Guess what? Didn't managed to ruin Nintendo's reputation, at all.

I think the standard is a bit different for handheld. And this being downloadable one, like other people said, which will be right next to Pushmo.

 

[Eusis]

I didn't say, "The Binding of Isaac is a Zelda 1 ripoff." Calm down.

I don't think "calming down" is necessary, but I'm sorry if I was too defensive there. I've seen at least one person kept treating it as just a Zelda clone despite having it outlined to NOT be one. You are right in that it may be seen as such by people who won't WANT to try for themselves or read up on the game before getting indignant, and assume Nintendo made it even though they didn't.

And now I'm kind of curious to see what M rated games HAVE come onto Nintendo's online stores. They do filter by rating, so it shouldn't be too hard. Not on 3DS! Though there was that strip poker game that got an M, though I don't think it actually went to full nudity so much as it did underwear.

 

[Chatin]

The quality of the game is irrelevant if the game is so distasteful on all levels. Nintendo made the right choice.

 

[reminder]

He's referring to Super Meat Boy there.

Ah, got it!