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The creator of Earthworm Jim just misgendered a journalist on purpose

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I can't see how anyone can defend worm man.

Even if you are a fool who buys into his world views, his tweet comes off as nothing more than an ad hominem petty insult.

Seriously, defending that kind of shitty childish behavior isn't worth dying on a hill for.
 
You know what!?... That actually makes sense and is a good point.

I want to make it clear I'm not DEFENDING what he said it was and is an ass move and he clearly did it to be hurtful.

It's just that fact that this guy's statement is causing infighting between people who actually agree on the same core issues.

I feel like I'm not making myself clear and I don't wanna anger people who may think I'm defending this guy or against trans people and their issues so I'm tapping out of this.

Take it easy guys,

Love is love.

You too!
 

Zubz

Banned
The guy's an asshole for his statement. But I don't think an army of GAFers and Twitter users will change his mind.

What's the goal to ruin his career? Lose funding? Just to vent & yell?

I like knowing that my money's going to someone that won't use it to spread hate. I feel awful enough for backing Armikrog before I knew this (The game itself is also a painfully mediocre retread, so I would've felt awful either way, but...).

Doug hasn't been in the game's industry for years, but he's still employed by Dreamworks. Meaning his work is going to be picked up by kids, too. It seems unlikely we'd get a full, bigoted tirade from him in movie form, but remember that The Neverhood was a heavy-handed religious allegory.

As a guy who was straight-up obsessed with Earthworm Jim & The Neverhoos, I don't want a guy that willingly writes for Breitbart involved with my media, let alone media that can influence kids. And I want Dreamworks to know that.
 

Nairume

Banned
It seems like every time some artist/creator turns out being an asshole, their past works become retroactively shit as well.
People still liking Dragon Quest despite Sugiyama being genuinely awful says this isn't always true.

And even if it was/is true, maybe TenNapel being a jackass is helping people reevaluate EWJ and acknowledge its shortcomings.
 

rjinaz

Member
Nah.
I held homophobic views as a teenager and getting rhetorically trashed by more intelligent people on message boards helped me recognize my own error.

It definitely works, even on people who are just passively observing.

Speaking as somebody that was also homophobic earlier in my life, it absolutely does. The challenging of my preconceptions changed my beliefs. Though I didn't often engage people directly, I actually took the time to just read other perspectives (and watched others get rightfully called out). So admittedly an open-mind is a prerequisite.
 
Are you trying to insinuate that the people who rightfully criticise this shitbag are somehow responsible for this "divide"? Also it is a big fucking deal, Christ alive.

My current theory: mods haven't banned him yet because they're tracing his IP to find out who this acount is an alt of. :D

I will attest that this is the case for me as well. I used to be a pretty shitty person, but seeing things like this unfold made me realize I could be better.

It's not fun and it's sad that it has to happen that way as a byproduct of other people's suffering, but this stuff can't just be swept under a rug.

I don't think I was bigoted as a kid, and in any case much less so than most of society back then: part of it was being shunned myself as a geek and top grades student (a grave sin in schools in 1980's Spain), and also later on having some very progressive and dedicated ethics teachers ("ethics" being the subject you took in Spain if you or your parents refused to sign you for "religion"; make of that what you will). However I was quite ignorant of the nuances of transgenderism until a few years ago, which is when the Penny Arcade controversy of all things made me realize I was equally uneducated and prompted me to correct that (recent TV shows that feature transgender people have also helped, which is why I think they're so important to educate people). I don't know any transgender person in real life, so all my knowledge is second-hand.

Love is love.

Love of bigoted people is misplaced love. It's easy to come from a position of love when it's not you the one that's suffering discrimination.
 

Alucrid

Banned
People still liking Dragon Quest despite Sugiyama being genuinely awful says this isn't always true.

And even if it was/is true, maybe TenNapel being a jackass is helping people reevaluate EWJ and acknowledge its shortcomings.

that reminds me i need to find a charity to donate to when i buy dq xi
 

a1j2h5

Neo Member
I like knowing that my money's going to someone that won't use it to spread hate. I feel awful enough for backing Armikrog before I knew this (The game itself is also a painfully mediocre retread, so I would've felt awful either way, but...).

Doug hasn't been in the game's industry for years, but he's still employed by Dreamworks. Meaning his work is going to be picked up by kids, too. It seems unlikely we'd get a full, bigoted tirade from him in movie form, but remember that The Neverhood was a heavy-handed religious allegory.

As a guy who was straight-up obsessed with Earthworm Jim & The Neverhoos, I don't want a guy that willingly writes for Breitbart involved with my media, let alone media that can influence kids. And I want Dreamworks to know that.

I said I was tapping out on my last comment but I just want to say this makes even more sense. And I agree with that. You're right.

If this is the way a person who has an influence on kids behaves. I'd want Dreamworks to know as well. He also writes for Breitbart!? Wow....

Learned something new today.
 

LiK

Member
Those banned posters calling people here sensitive when their own posts are completely insensitive and ignorant. They should read their own posts out loud and hear how stupid they sound.
 

Spman2099

Member
Among other things, he denies that the Rape of Nanjing ever happened.

He denies the rape of nanking for one.

I don't want to support ignorance, or deny what an awful sentiment that is, but that isn't an uncommon view in Japan. The Japanese wartime atrocities are kept out of the schools and kids end up getting their information from unreliable sources. Hell, it surely doesn't help that their prime minister is a nationalist who has denied Japanese war crimes in the past.

I am not saying this to excuse him, but I feel like there is a difference between having a hateful perspective that you have to fight to maintain, and having one that is reinforced by many people in your country (and not considered particularly controversial in your own country).

I love Japan, but they handle the shady parts of their history incredibly poorly.
 

Afrodium

Banned
Man, I don't get why people just refuse to use whatever pronouns the person they're talking to prefers. If I meet someone from China who wants to go by 'Mike' I call him Mike, full well knowing that's not on his birth certificate because it's not a big deal and in not a prick. But for some reason people can't fathom calling someone with a penis 'her' just because that's how that person wants to be referred to.

Just don't be a dick. It's not hard.
 
I understand this viewpoint but I feel it does more harm than good. It just teaches sexist people and racist people what NOT to do. Doesn't change their views or beliefs. It instead makes THEM feel like the victims.

But if the goal is to shame them or expose them then yes this is the right course. I just don't think its helpful to the overall goal of people getting along. Just divides people more.

For example, I've read a bunch of people who agree what was said was "asshole-ish" but also say its not "Much-of-a-big-deal". And now other posters are attacking THEM for that view.

It's like a weird internet form of "Justice Bullying" Most of us actually agree with each other than disagree but It seems a bit tense in here.

I'll never understand why bigots always make this dumb fucking argument. It's never the person saying the offensive/divisive shit that's dividing people. It's the people that call the bullshit out that's being divisive. I mean just one second of critical thinking and most semi intelligent people will be able to realize that this argument is dumb as fuck
 
I don't want to support ignorance, or deny what an awful sentiment that is, but that isn't an uncommon view in Japan. The Japanese wartime atrocities are kept out of the schools and kids end up getting their information from unreliable sources. Hell, it surely doesn't help that their prime minister is a nationalist who has denied Japanese war crimes in the past.

I am not saying this to excuse him, but I feel like there is a difference between having a hateful perspective that you have to fight to maintain, and having one that is reinforced by many people in your country (and not considered particularly controversial in your own country).

I love Japan, but they handle the shady parts of their history incredibly poorly.

True, but isn't that also a defense for people who grew up in a rural area surrounded by bigoted people who taught them bigoted things and live with bigoted people? Not everyone lives in the more liberal minded cities and coasts.

I'll never understand why bigots always make this dumb fucking argument. It's never the person saying the offensive/divisive shit that's dividing people. It's the people that call the bullshit out that's being divisive. I mean just one second of critical thinking and most semi intelligent people will be able to realize that this argument is dumb as fuck

Just good ole American values

”Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
 
Those banned posters calling people here sensitive when their own posts are completely insensitive and ignorant. They should read their own posts out loud and hear how stupid they sound.

Such a shame. I was so eager to hear them elucidate on their thick-skinned and open minded ways.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
NeoGAF could really use a tombstone count beside each thread. I'd love to know some of the all-time highest tallies but it takes a fair bit of digging to figure out exact counts.

Can I just say how amazing it is to see this much passion for holding people accountable for their vile public statements? It's downright heartwarming and gives me hope for the future of humanity.
Was going through the rest of the thread and thinking exactly this. It truly warms my cold, dying heart.
Also thank you mods for working overtime in threads like these.
 

Aquillion

Member
I understand this viewpoint but I feel it does more harm than good. It just teaches sexist people and racist people what NOT to do. Doesn't change their views or beliefs. It instead makes THEM feel like the victims.

But if the goal is to shame them or expose them then yes this is the right course. I just don't think its helpful to the overall goal of people getting along. Just divides people more.
Maybe "people getting along" is not the only goal here. If you keep insulting the people around you, they're going to ask you to stop; if you didn't realize you were doing it, the best thing to do is to recognize that and stop. It isn't to say "oh, why can't we all just get along?"

When you're called out, it's not hard to just say "oops, I fucked up, sorry" and move on. Everyone screws up sometimes; everyone has some dumb opinions or makes some stupid mistakes. Especially in the 21st century - when your words are potentially being viewed by a lot more people, and you can end up exposed to a lot more opinions that previously wouldn't have been able to find a voice - it's easy to put your foot in your mouth without realizing it, or to have people point out problems you wouldn't have seen on your own. It doesn't make you a terrible person.

When it starts to out people as awful is when they insist on making it all about themselves - suddenly this is a deep and serious challenge to them; clearly this is all about their guilt or innocence in some vast cosmic trial that they must defend to the death

For example, I've read a bunch of people who agree what was said was "asshole-ish" but also say its not "Much-of-a-big-deal". And now other posters are attacking THEM for that view.
Maybe your insistence on interpreting it as an "attack" is part of the problem. If you acknowledge you screwed up (and yeah, anyone who tries to argue this isn't a big deal has screwed up), then you should maybe just... try and listen to what people are saying? Apologize, and avoid making that mistake in the future?

Just... let the chip fall off your shoulder, now and then. It isn't necessary to "defend' yourself every single time. Sometimes you can just accept it as a chance to learn the impact your words are having on other people, and adjust them to suit. (And if you don't care how your words are being taken by other people - why are you talking in the first place? Reaching other people is what words are for.)
 

Llyranor

Member
I don't want to support ignorance, or deny what an awful sentiment that is, but that isn't an uncommon view in Japan. The Japanese wartime atrocities are kept out of the schools and kids end up getting their information from unreliable sources. Hell, it surely doesn't help that their prime minister is a nationalist who has denied Japanese war crimes in the past.

I am not saying this to excuse him, but I feel like there is a difference between having a hateful perspective that you have to fight to maintain, and having one that is reinforced by many people in your country (and not considered particularly controversial in your own country).

I love Japan, but they handle the shady parts of their history incredibly poorly.
Transphobia is also reinforced by many people in many countries.
 

calavera_jo

Neo Member
What's weird is that the article actually praises earthworm Jim for the most part.

So it's not even like he had reason to feel provoked (not that this would excuse his attack either)

He writes for Breitbart. Feeling like he's being attacked is part of his psyche
 

Famassu

Member
Those banned posters calling people here sensitive when their own posts are completely insensitive and ignorant. They should read their own posts out loud and hear how stupid they sound.
Rather, people calling out other people as being sensitive when they themselves are special little snowflakes who can't take criticism about their own statements without resorting to even more shittiness.
 

Pyccko

Member
Every time a new dookie falls out of TenNapel's mouth I get depressed again because I like his art so much. What a bummer.
 
Nah.
I held homophobic views as a teenager and getting rhetorically trashed by more intelligent people on message boards helped me recognize my own error.

It definitely works, even on people who are just passively observing.

Just like to say, Not many people would do what you have done. It takes courage to admit that you were wrong and open your mind up to different ways of thinking. Even people generally on the right side of arguments fail to do that. Tis good that you can take a step back and think.
 

Makonero

Member
Just popping in to say this is me also. I was a pretty shit person as a teen and forum fights like this helped make me a better person now. Real life arguments too. I'm not sure the change happens if things get sugarcoated all the time. People who deserve to be trashed should be, not have their dumb viewpoints coddled.

Hell, if someone wanted to DetectiveGaf my ass, I said some homophobic things in this very forum when I first arrived. People constantly getting on me and making me realize that my arguments held no actual weight and were harmful made me a better person.

Now, it did take a combo of getting trashed and also thoughtful, deep posts, but I'm so glad I didn't get banned or written off right away and I was able to grow and mature.
 

rjinaz

Member
Hell, if someone wanted to DetectiveGaf my ass, I said some homophobic things in this very forum when I first arrived. People constantly getting on me and making me realize that my arguments held no actual weight and were harmful made me a better person.

Now, it did take a combo of getting trashed and also thoughtful, deep posts, but I'm so glad I didn't get banned or written off right away and I was able to grow and mature.

You were smart enough to keep most of the bigotry to yourself. That's why years ago I was a lurker and didn't post. I knew if I did I would likely be banned from getting into arguments all the time.
The difference is, these people don't care to learn and aren't even really interested in staying in the community. Especially those that did it in this thread. It's only about internet high fives from the sewers of hate on the internet. Places I never would have visited even when I was a hardcore Christian Conservative. It was never about hate, at least for me. It was ignorance.
 
Was going through the rest of the thread and thinking exactly this. It truly warms my cold, dying heart.
Also thank you mods for working overtime in threads like these.

it's not like these posters would change their views, they are just silenced on GAF, and other posters that agree with them just don't post because they don't want to be banned, I don't know what that accomplishes
 

LotusHD

Banned
it's not like these posters would change their views, they are just silenced on GAF, and other posters that agree with them just don't post because they don't want to be banned, I don't know what that accomplishes

Less transphobic people on GAF
 

SOME-MIST

Member
Every time a new dookie falls out of TenNapel's mouth I get depressed again because I like his art so much. What a bummer.

yea, I love his work even though he's a shitbag and I don't agree with his views. I'm still patiently waiting on my physical copy of armikrog...
 

Famassu

Member
it's not like these posters would change their views, they are just silenced on GAF, and other posters that agree with them just don't post because they don't want to be banned, I don't know what that accomplishes
These shitty people not spreading their shitty opinions is a win in itself. The less there is visible judgmental/hateful transphobia, the better.
 
Surprised and disappointed about this

Interestingly, you can actually be fined for publicly misgendering someone after a transition (in which there birth certificate has been reprinted with their new gender); its all broken down and spoken about in the documents and such you have to go through when transitioning. I believe its after operations (I actually don't think this one matters, you can be pre or no-op and still legally classified as the gender you define as), official and financial records now legally class you as the gender you see yourself as that people can then be fined for it. (Source: I dated a girl who was transitioning and she pointed it out to me in some of the documentation after a heated argument with a guy calling her out about it).

In the US? In all states? Not that I'm into misgendering people, but this doesn't seem consistent with constitutional law and the interpretation of the 1st amendment.

*edit*
18 pages later, I imagine this has probably already been answered
 

t hicks

Banned
wow what a shithead
all because a journalist wrote a piece on a game he worked on like 20 something years ago? what a child
 
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